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[NullZ3r0]

So we are now supposed to ignore developers from the likes of id, Remedy and Unity in favor of this guy?

Thanks but no thanks.

The problem is people who don't understand tech and would rather pay attention to the labels behind the names.

This guy's points were all logical. He did acknowledge dev concerns that extra effort is required (and thus $$$), but that's the nature of the business.

Any of those devs you mentioned can definitely abandon any other platform and create PS5 titles and titles for RTX 3000 series. But the realities of the gaming business prevent them from doing that. Consumers determine their priorities. If consumers choose Series S, then the devs will support them.

Xbox Game Studios need to lead the charge here. We need Halo Infinite, Hellblade 2, Fable, Forza and Avowed to show us that it really is as simple as just dropping the resolution.

 

[turtlepowa]

Mate, the shit goes both ways.
I love how everytime this topic gets brought up, the Xbox fans play the victims or get defended when they are guilty of the same shit.

Sure, but let's say 0,1% of the console owners are absolute brand-obseesed die-hard fanboys, that means we have like 115.00 Sonyboys and 45.000 Xboys and if you visit this forum, you can clearly see the difference.

 

[Agnostic2020]

You mean like Dice, who have no problems with it?

Dice make some of the most demanding games out there period. If they can make it work, the others can too.

Their games are always a mess on launch to begin with . So this is a bit much coming from them . If they r so efficient maybe don't have a buggy mess game at launch? Beside she is always on era defending ms .her user name is elenarie there

 

[Tomeru]

If echo the dolphine can run 1440p 120fps on ses, then every game can!

 

[Agnostic2020]

Technically true. However, the current-gen systems, even PS4 Pro and Xbox One X, weren't particularly great with utilizing their theoretical peaks. That's one of the biggest things AMD focused on transitioning from GCN to Navi.

So while on paper, even with architectural gains Series S might not match the One X's theoretical peak, in terms of actual utilization I can easily see it at least matching One X, if not surpassing One X's real-case peaks since RDNA2 as an architecture shits all over what the current-gen systems have.



Yeah it's kinda funny when people dismiss one dev over another for preferential reasons. At least hear out what the dev is saying and acknowledge they may have a valid perspective, even if two of them come to opposing viewpoints.

Funny? Name me one game this guy has make so that I listen to him ?? News flash : zero. None. Doesnt exist

 

[ethomaz]

It's hard not to end up defending Xbox on this site if you are even vaguely even-handed (and naturally argumentative ). I'm considered 100% pro-Xbox on Gaf but it's mostly because I can't ignore some of crazy comments made by the most extreme Sony fans.

It's not the majority of Sony fans, not even close, but Sony fans overall vastly outweigh Xbox, PC and Nintendo fans here, so it's not surprising that the number of rabid extremists is also proportionately high. If your a Sony fan you probably don't even notice it.

I think I might've become a bit blind to the worst Xbox fanboys over my time on Gaf. The truth is that we'd all be better off if we call out the worst bullshit from any particular faction.

That said, I've never seen an obnoxious Nintendo fan on here. Maybe we've all got something to learn.

So you create FUD just because it looks "one sided"? That what these guys are doing on Twitter.

 

[Topfuel]

You have devs from triple aaa studios having concerns but gavin who knows better, sure

Who are the AAA studio?

 

[Jon Neu]

It's hard not to end up defending Xbox on this site if you are even vaguely even-handed (and naturally argumentative ). I'm considered 100% pro-Xbox on Gaf but it's mostly because I can't ignore some of crazy comments made by the most extreme Sony fans.

It's not the majority of Sony fans, not even close, but Sony fans overall vastly outweigh Xbox, PC and Nintendo fans here, so it's not surprising that the number of rabid extremists is also proportionately high. If your a Sony fan you probably don't even notice it.

I think I might've become a bit blind to the worst Xbox fanboys over my time on Gaf. The truth is that we'd all be better off if we call out the worst bullshit from any particular faction.

That said, I've never seen an obnoxious Nintendo fan on here. Maybe we've all got something to learn.

Congratulations man, you know have chilichote laughing at your posts too.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Who are the AAA studio?

Remedy, id design , Activision

 

[gmoran]

These things are not mutually exclusive. He's a Playstation fan, so what? It's not illegal.

Except I was thinking of someone completely different - Fafalada - so my point was completely spurious from the off LOL

 

[IntentionalPun]

This dude is a total chud indie dork.

 

[Topfuel]

Pragmata is the same till we see more. Resident evil had gameplay snippets and doesn't look so hot (many issues when u zoom )

So there are different versions of the trailers shown on the Xbox YT channel?

 

[Reindeer]

It is funny we never hear in 2013 how about if a developer wants to do 640x480p game lol. The concern trolling is off the charts.

We also didn't hear devs saying they want to make 720-800p games and we got many of those on Xbox One. Even PS4 ran many games late in the gen at 800-900p.

 

[lukilladog]

Doing a 1080p game in the gen of the 4K would be kind of defeating the point. But why stop at 1080p anyways? You know the kind of games they could make at 480 upscaled to 720p? CGI stuff I'm telling you.

And still, they can make a Series X game at 1080p if they want it and port it to the Series S at 720p upscaled to 1080p. Problem solved.

It would be 1080p after upscaling on SX, 720p already looks blurry on FHD displays

 

[Redlight]

Congratulations man, you know have chilichote laughing at your posts too.

That's always a win.

 

[Topfuel]

Remedy, id design , Activision

Have these studios come out with official statements or is it non technical individual staff that have said it?

 

[Redlight]

So you create FUD just because it looks "one sided"? That what these guys are doing on Twitter.

Like clockwork. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Have these studios come out with official statements or is it non technical individual staff that have said it?

Their lead senoir programmers have made the comments

 

[Rob_27]

Yet they will all still make stuff for it. They all want 5 mins of bitching.

 

[Redlight]

Their games are always a mess on launch to begin with . So this is a bit much coming from them . If they r so efficient maybe don't have a buggy mess game at launch? Beside she is always on era defending ms .her user name is elenarie there

So Infinity Ward and Remedy don't release buggy games at launch? I think I want to live in your timeline.

 

[ethomaz]

Like clockwork. Thanks for proving my point.

So I was right again lol

You will try to create FUD just because you believe the forum is being too "one sided".

 

[RaySoft]

People will believe what they want to believe anyways.
This guy is a indie designer, not even a programmer.
But I guess he knows better than seasoned senior engine programmers from established softwate companies.
Whatever rocks your boat GAF.

 

[Redlancet]

Who are the AAA studio?

Havent you Read the blomberg article?

 

[Redlight]

So I was right again lol

You will try to create FUD just because you believe the forum is being too "one sided".

Yes ethomaz, you were right again. I don't know how you do it.

 

[FranXico]

Called it. Exactly like last time, exactly as predicted.

And the usual suspects start a thread for it, decide to only take his opinion seriously over the opinion of more experienced developers. Hands on a devkit are not even required anymore.

Havent you Read the blomberg article?

Nevermind that Bloomberg article, it's low level bait. But devs have come out complaining.

 

[ethomaz]

Yes ethomaz, you were right again. I don't know how you do it.

I just questioned why you do that and you just avoided the question... that tells you what I questioned is true for whatever reason.
I will never understand why you and these twitter guys do that because soon or late it will work against the brand you are defending... the FUD just last some days and do no harm to the brand or customers purchases.

 

[THEAP99]

 

[MarkMe2525]

Thats what you get for lying.

Ssshhhhhhhhhh

 

[Topfuel]

Their lead senoir programmers have made the comments

So no offical studio statements and only one technical role, the others are producer/designer roles?

 

[ethomaz]

Random dev without devkit doing concern trolling...

 

[Azurro]

Again, the Xbox dev said games are going to be made to the Series X and then ported to the Series S.

If there are devs lazy and cheap enough to not want to deal with that policy, then nothing will be lost, because they weren't going to set any impressive technical perfomance anyway.

The console is fine. The ports are going to be fine.

And anyone that knows anything about development will tell you that's bullshit.

I'm a developer (not of games thankfully), I'm telling you, it's bullshit. If I was working on that thing, in every meeting talking about some feature, you'd always have someone go "how are we going to fit that into the S?".

The S is MS's next gen console. The whole "porting down" is nothing but marketing bs.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

So Infinity Ward and Remedy don't release buggy games at launch? I think I want to live in your timeline.

I think some of the posters on here are so lost in their narrative that they fail to see they are being hypocritical. You can go into any xbox thread on this forum and see the same dozen or so Sony die hards that have been working for months to discredit or downplay MS, for some weird reason. if infinity ward has credibility, which they should, then I would imagine DIce would be up there as well. And if a developer's opinion doesn't matter because they don't have access to dev kits and the developer tools, then nobody that doesn't have a dev kit should have any credibility in the discussion... But that doesn't fit the narrative. Then the ultimate humor is somebody trying to discredit a statement because the person says GAF can be a Sony cesspool.. only to prove them right in the same thread. It's a bit hilarious to watch

 

[Md Ray]

 

[MarkMe2525]

Hey maybe the S means Switch ? So any game made on the S can come easily to switch. Thanks MS

Just when we thought we had all the answers... Ms goes and changes the questions.

 

[Reindeer]

Again, the Xbox dev said games are going to be made to the Series X and then ported to the Series S.

If there are devs lazy and cheap enough to not want to deal with that policy, then nothing will be lost, because they weren't going to set any impressive technical perfomance anyway.

The console is fine. The ports are going to be fine.

That's not how game development works. Any game developer will tell you that game is made with lowest common denominator in mind and is then scaled up fo more powerful hardware, not the other way around. There's no such thing as "let's a make game for the powerful system and then port it to a weaker system", it didn't exist for current gen consoles and sure won't start now.

 

[Jon Neu]

And anyone that knows anything about development will tell you that's bullshit.

So you know more about development than Microsoft devs, ey?

If I was working on that thing, every single feature you'll have someone asking "how are we going to fit that into the S?".

You're going to fit that into a lesser hardware the same way it has ever been done: by compromising.

 

[azertydu91]

I was banned from ERA for saying I was straight.

How dare you monster ...

 

[SF Kosmo]

Which games are you talking about again?

The Xbox One Halo Infinite? Or the rest of crossgen titles that aren't next gen games?

Please, tell me how is this not impressive looking.

I'm talking about stuff we have seen playable. The Hellblade trailer looks awesome but I have doubts it is running in realtime or that the final game will represent that target. The games looks good but I haven't seen anything on the level of Horizon Forbidden West or Ratchet and Clank that are pushing their hardware to the limit.

 

[azertydu91]

Sure, but let's say 0,1% of the console owners are absolute brand-obseesed die-hard fanboys, that means we have like 115.00 Sonyboys and 45.000 Xboys and if you visit this forum, you can clearly see the difference.

Yep let's bring out the fud lists .... Oh no ... there goes your argument.

 

[Goncas2]

He completely dismisses the biggest problem which is the RAM in my opinion, by just saying that memory usage is "drastically lower" with lower resolutions, which is not the case in a lot of games:

The Xbox Series X "targets" 10GB o memory for the GPU. A port to the Series S would only have ~4-5GB of memory available to the GPU. That's a 50-60% reduction from the Series X.
But in a lot of games, going from 4K->1080p gives us a 33% reduction of VRAM usage at best. Developers will either have a lot of work fitting their game into memory for the Series S, or just limit their scope and ~hold back their games~. And that's without even mentioning the horrendous bandwidth speed.

 

[FranXico]

But in a lot of games, going from 4K->1080p gives us a 33% reduction of VRAM usage at best.

Mind you, in consoles the VRAM and RAM are shared, so there will be less of a reduction.

 

[Batiman]

Where's the lie?

 

[MarkMe2525]

He completely dismisses the biggest problem which is the RAM in my opinion, by just saying that memory usage is "drastically lower" with lower resolutions, which is not the case in a lot of games:

The Xbox Series X "targets" 10GB o memory for the GPU. A port to the Series S would only have ~4-5GB of memory available to the GPU. That's a 50-60% reduction from the Series X.
But in a lot of games, going from 4K->1080p gives us a 33% reduction of VRAM usage at best. Developers will either have a lot of work fitting their game into memory for the Series S, or just limit their scope and ~hold back their games~. And that's without even mentioning the horrendous bandwidth speed.

I think the that's the reason they waited for AMD to be finished with their hardware implementation of VRR, SF, and added that ML upsampling stuff. I'm not claiming that is going to be "the fix", but I think that is the idea. They actually put out a demo of how Sampler feedback works and it looks like it's legit.

 

[NickFire]

It is funny we never hear in 2013 how about if a developer wants to do 640x480p game lol. The concern trolling is off the charts.

Critiquing concern trolling while comparing the differences between 480 and 1080, and 1080 and 4k? You've got to be kidding. Back then everyone was moving to HD. The switch to 4k seems more of a tech enthusiast, or my 1080p tv just died kind of thing. Even MS knows its a different ball game. Hence the Series S.

 

[ResilientBanana]

This is a very realistic opinion.

 

[Sethbacca]

Lets call it what it really is: fear.

Alternately, we're gamers paying for a $500-600 toy and don't want the games being held back by a generation because of this kids toy. I mean, fuck us right?

 

[Jon Neu]

That's not how game development works. Any game developer will tell you that game is made with lowest common denominator in mind and is then scaled up fo more powerful hardware, not the other way around. There's no such thing as "let's a make game for the powerful system and then port it to a weaker system", it didn't exist for current gen consoles and sure won't start now.

So, according to you, for example Mortal Kombat 11 or Doom Eternal were made for the Switch and then scaled up on the Xbox One X?

And obviously, the leading platform of The Witcher 3 was the Switch all along.

Maybe the Switch was the real next gen console all this time.

 

[chonga]

I think this is pretty obvious to everyone. I mean people are excited by this console now because it is $299 and can gain the label of a 'next gen' console. But in a few years time when pure next gen titles roll in the Series S is going to look very tired. And you can see that with what they've shown running on it so far. Nothing looks next gen. It looks current gen but performs better.

 

[Andodalf]

He completely dismisses the biggest problem which is the RAM in my opinion, by just saying that memory usage is "drastically lower" with lower resolutions, which is not the case in a lot of games:

The Xbox Series X "targets" 10GB o memory for the GPU. A port to the Series S would only have ~4-5GB of memory available to the GPU. That's a 50-60% reduction from the Series X.
But in a lot of games, going from 4K->1080p gives us a 33% reduction of VRAM usage at best. Developers will either have a lot of work fitting their game into memory for the Series S, or just limit their scope and ~hold back their games~. And that's without even mentioning the horrendous bandwidth speed.

1/3 reduction in Vram usage just by dropping res is great! These games targeting 1080p are also going to have lower res textures than the 4k ready SX ones, which should get things well in line. Your examples seem to have kept the texture settings the same for everything, which paints an incomplete picture.

 

[SF Kosmo]

So, according to you, for example Mortal Kombat 11 or Doom Eternal were made for the Switch and then scaled up on the Xbox One X?

And obviously, the leading platform of The Witcher 3 was the Switch all along.

Maybe the Switch was the real next gen console all this time.

Well Doom Eternal at least was certainly a game that was made with a great deal of overhead with which to scale down. It's not a game that is maxing out the higher end systems.