Support NeoGAF

[Arun1910]

Even though it looks like Jenga, companies do stuff for a reason.

That said, it being so small could impact thermals quite a bit.

Sony's console is huge sure, but the bigger heatsink and fan are theoretically going to run the console cooler than the Series X.

 

[scalman]

sony as allways nailed with console insides, all have form and factor all put together peace by peace, last time i opened xbox it was just part put in the box . like pc. nothing to it. sony is just something more in there and that pic proves it again. And removable panels on ps5 could be them modified , painted or smt done with them. many ideas there

so now HQ pics of every taken part from console ? just low res pics from video . shame

 

[freefornow]

Has any body been able to calculate the surface area of the heatsink fins on the PS5 vs XSX?
PS5 heat sink is long and narrow vs XSX sizable square footprint.

 

[phil_t98]

The Xbox internal design is so bad compared to what Sony did with the PS5. The Xbox parts are just mashed together with a fan on top with so many of the holes blocked. If you put the Xbox sideways the big round stand just sits there looking ridiculous, not to mention blocking nearly all air intake. The PS5 has a freakin' compartment for the attachment screw and they even give you a small bit to fill the screw hole when you lay it sideways. So much attention to detail. It's just a completely different approach to system design, and sadly the Xbox XSX continues Microsoft's "legendary" design chops. I don't get how Microsoft can still churn out the kinds of products it does in every area when they have decades of seeing superior competition. They don't even seem to get why they turn out inferior products. It's maddening.

erm thanks for your technical design coarse right there. they managed to get a more powerful system together in a smaller space than the PS5 so yeah they done bad lol

 

[Arun1910]

erm thanks for your technical design coarse right there. they managed to get a more powerful system together in a smaller space than the PS5 so yeah they done bad lol

It being smaller isn't an immediate credit to good design. We know the PS5 is huge now due to its clearly larger heatsink and fan.

Does that mean either company has done something bad with design? No. We won't know until launch.

As a primarily PC player however, I would much rather have more fans (or a bigger fan in this case) and a larger heatsink. It should reduce the need for the PS5 fan to have to go full throttle and sound like it wants to take off.

For the Series X, the compactness can still work as you have PC's these days that do fit in compact cases'.

They're just different design approaches.

 

[phil_t98]

It being smaller isn't an immediate credit to good design. We know the PS5 is huge now due to its clearly larger heatsink and fan.

Does that mean either company has done something bad with design? No. We won't know until launch.

As a primarily PC player however, I would much rather have more fans (or a bigger fan in this case) and a larger heatsink. It should reduce the need for the PS5 fan to have to go full throttle and sound like it wants to take off.

For the Series X, the compactness can still work as you have PC's these days that do fit in compact cases'.

They're just different design approaches.

yeah which is what I was pointing out. the PS5 is a good design its just a traditional design of how a PC would be with a good cooling solution , where the series x is a bit different design and more compact.

 

[Allandor]

Has any body been able to calculate the surface area of the heatsink fins on the PS5 vs XSX?
PS5 heat sink is long and narrow vs XSX sizable square footprint.

No.

But the PS5 heatsink is massiv.
It should really take a while until this think heats up, thx to its sheer size.

What I really don't get, the Airflow works from the Top to the bottom. Seems like a bit illogical, but on the other hand, the Top will always stay cool. But if standing, it will suck the warmed up air inside, again. Looks like this console is made for a vertical orientation.


The sheer size of that think. It is bigger and wider than the mans chest ...

 

[GustavoLT]

Playstation 5 design:

Xbox Series X design:

 

[Jibran#one]

I'll be getting a ps5 first but its probably the most ugly console in the history of consoles , series x is basically xbox one x on steroids and it looks like a console, ps5 on the other hand looks like a 7 year olds lego transformer

 

[Tschumi]

that's not true though. People have Xbox consoles at their homes to preview. They aren't being play tested at MS.

I meean both companies held different events which featured third parties hosted on their turf. That's the only connection i was drawing. When Sony hosted people they got flamed, when Microsoft did it wasn't mentioned. It's just a double standard, regardless of the content of the videos or the respectability of the third party reps.. home turf with third party Sony = omg; home turf third party Microsoft = <crickets>. do you dig me?

Anyway you'll disagree, still this was a fun exchange jah bless over und aus

 

[spyshagg]

From the pictures, I would estimate both heatsinks weight about the same.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

What's crazy about the PlayStation heat sink? The Xbox has a vapour chamber lol. The Xbox is better engineering because it's more powerful and it's in a significantly smaller console, and the airflow and design seem smarter. Air goes in one end, through the entire console, and out the other.

we don't know yet if that was the best move for MS. I would gladly take a larger XBX if it meant more air for the components to live in. It just sits there so who cares how big it is.

 

[SirTerry-T]

And they wonder what could go wrong.....There is simply no elegance and thought that went into that XBOX design...

Yep no thought at all, zilch, nowt, nuffink.
Do you seriously, even for one moment stepping away from these stupid, incessant console warring bullshit conversations, think that Microsoft's engineers did the equivalent of rummaging through their spare PC parts drawer looking for some random parts to throw together and stick in a box?
Of course thought went into the design.
No one can be that silly, stupid, ignorant or blinded by their team's colours to think otherwise, can they?

Can they?

 

[Connxtion]

Has any body been able to calculate the surface area of the heatsink fins on the PS5 vs XSX?
PS5 heat sink is long and narrow vs XSX sizable square footprint.

From the looks of it the XSX is larger than the SOC section of the PS5.

Folk are forgetting (not looking) only part of that chunk of metal is for the SOC, the long part is just for keeping the NVME chips cool so Sony much be cracking those things hard.

The small section at the back maybe for RAM or the power system.

But the XSX has larger fins and more of them. (Also is a vapour chamber copper heat sync)

 

[Xaero Gravity]

I marked this thread and will revisit in november.

 

[recursive]

I'd love to see official BOM off both consoles. It looks like ps5 is using up a huge chunk of metal and plastic, while drawing more power, and being less powerful. Now that both consoles have had teardowns, it would be interesting to see how they would handle midgen refreshes, if they even go that route.

What is the basis for the statement that ps5 draws more power?

 

[WelshBluebird]

What is the basis for the statement that ps5 draws more power?

People are just basing it on the PSU's each console has.
350W for the PS5 v 300W for the Series X.
Of course the power supply rating being higher doesn't guarantee that the system itself uses more power - but it does imply it.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

What is the basis for the statement that ps5 draws more power?

If you know how gpu's and power profiles work, it only makes sense for it to draw more power by trying to achieve higher clock speeds. I mean look at the difference in size of heatsinks, the ps5 is going to run hotter, otherwise they wouldn't need liquid metal and 5 pounds of heatsink alone.

 

[VCAwe]

Xbox is a minimalistic sleek design packed with power. The best of both worlds. PS5 is overwrought, huge, and garish in design and underachieves in power. The worst of both worlds. No contest, Xbox wins.

Only if you have garbage taste when it comes to design.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

The approach of the xsx is simple and looks like an off the shelf PC designed using the 'chimney' idea to move heat from the bottom to the top. I can respect that.

The PS5 has been built around keeping the console cool and quiet at the cost of size, but no one can deny that Sony have gone to the nth degree in regards to the finer details. I respect that.

Personally, I prefer function over form and aesthetics will always take a back seat to performance and integration of parts.

Which one will be the most effective at doing what it does? We will see.

 

[ethomaz]

that's actually more complicated than the PS5 lol the PS5 a traditional design lol

It is the opposite imo.

Series X is basically PC mini-ITX design.
PS5 is more complex and set apart from tradicional design.

 

[recursive]

If you know how gpu's and power profiles work, it only makes sense for it to draw more power by trying to achieve higher clock speeds. I mean look at the difference in size of heatsinks, the ps5 is going to run hotter, otherwise they wouldn't need liquid metal and 5 pounds of heatsink alone.

So you are guessing. You don't know the voltage levels it is operating at or anything about the circuit resistances.

The other guy that responded to me with PSU size indicates that the ps5 has a larger supply but like he mentioned that doesn't speak to the actual draw either.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

So you are guessing. You don't know the voltage levels it is operating at or anything about the circuit resistances.

The other guy that responded to me with PSU size indicates that the ps5 has a larger supply but like he mentioned that doesn't speak to the actual draw either.

Look at any gpu power limit, and then see how much more power it takes to up the frequency. Why would it need more space and larger heatsink, if it didn't produce as much heat, which is caused from higher power usage? Why the riskier liquid metal instead of traditional thermal paste? Or is this a case of over engineering and to seem like positive PR? Its gotta be one or the other.

 

[Clear]

While admirably compact, not sure I like how the SX design jams a whole slew of heat emitting parts in such close proximity. Especially as the heat sink is all on one side of the chassis, leaving minimal cooling for the PSU and BD-Rom despite them being seated next to the mainboard assembly.

 

[CasperDarling]

Series X reminds me of a high quality Lego set, PS5 reminds me of a cheap knock off Mega Blocks type brand

 

[recursive]

Look at any gpu power limit, and then see how much more power it takes to up the frequency. Why would it need more space and larger heatsink, if it didn't produce as much heat, which is caused from higher power usage? Why the riskier liquid metal instead of traditional thermal paste? Or is this a case of over engineering and to seem like positive PR? Its gotta be one or the other.

Do you know how to calculate electrical power?

 

[Tmack]

If i had to guess i would saythat the PS5 design is quieter, cheaper to make, easier to scale up production and more reliable over time.

 

[CobraAB]

Or perhaps the computer engineering and programming experience. Bitterness and delusion? I'll gladly put my credentials up against yours.

Are you actually arguing that the Xbox XSX internals is well thought out or even had decent amounts of work put into it? Compare it to the elegance of the PS5 design or, for a similar form factor, the 2013 Mac Pro which it clearly derived some kind of inspiration from. The difference in execution is like looking at a Rembrandt painting vs a kindergartner's crayon sketch.

Imagine the bitterness and ignorance one must carry to deny what is so obvious to anyone with even a modicum of knowledge.

To wit:

Behold the skillful engineering and beauty!

This crap is literally why Microsoft continues to be Microsoft, and people not in engineering don't really get it.

Looks lIke something out of Tetris.

 

[phil_t98]

It is the opposite imo.

Series X is basically PC mini-ITX design.
PS5 is more complex and set apart from tradicional design.

none of them look like how the xbox is at all lol the PS5 is like a traditional pc motherboard

 

[MrFunSocks]

While admirably compact, not sure I like how the SX design jams a whole slew of heat emitting parts in such close proximity. Especially as the heat sink is all on one side of the chassis, leaving minimal cooling for the PSU and BD-Rom despite them being seated next to the mainboard assembly.

Why would the bluray drive need much cooling? Games run from the SSD.

 

[Jdroop]

This thread is fucking funny the amount of engineers in here.

 

[Ulsterman]

If you take away the PS5's white side panels I don't think they'd actually be much difference between the 2 systems volume wise, be interested if someone works it out.

 

[Lysandros]

While admirably compact, not sure I like how the SX design jams a whole slew of heat emitting parts in such close proximity. Especially as the heat sink is all on one side of the chassis, leaving minimal cooling for the PSU and BD-Rom despite them being seated next to the mainboard assembly.

Yes, seriously what's that Microsoft obsession to block almost all of air intake holes like that? If the large stand was not enough, there is the disc drive that blocks the few remaining ones. Same situation for the rear of the console as if they were afraid that any air could get into the machine. I have hard time calling this 'superior engineering'.

 

[Topfuel]

This thread is like Manu fans discussing how signing Sancho will lead Manu into a new glory era. Come transfer deadline day, no Sancho arrive.

 

[Neo_game]

Teardown PS5 is more professional.

I agree. In fact SX was not even a tear down. In the PS5 video he was giving info and showing all the internal components of the console including the wifi6 and bluetooth 5.1 , it was professional video. SX was only assembling the parts into the box.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Do you know how to calculate electrical power?

Do you know how electrical complements are engineered? You don't slap a big radiator on a small motor. Nor do you use big heatsinks on components that don't have a high TDP. Come on man, you can't deny any of these things. Again, unless it's just Sony trying to score good PR from the less knowledgeable people, they wouldn't design the console around a heatsink that large, nor would they waste money on precious metals and plastic for such a large console. Do cars with small motors require a radiator that would go on an 18 wheeler? You don't have to have experience in engineering, manufacturing, or thermodynamics to understand these basic concepts.

 

[oldergamer]

Playstation 5 design:

Xbox Series X design:

heh I think they are more the other way around, buttt ... ok

 

[oldergamer]

It is the opposite imo.

Series X is basically PC mini-ITX design.
PS5 is more complex and set apart from tradicional design.

More complex? do you ever get tired of shilling man?

 

[Riky]

It pretty much repeats what happened with X1X and Pro, Microsoft out engineered Sony with a smaller and more powerful console.

 

[recursive]

Do you know how electrical complements are engineered? You don't slap a big radiator on a small motor. Nor do you use big heatsinks on components that don't have a high TDP. Come on man, you can't deny any of these things. Again, unless it's just Sony trying to score good PR from the less knowledgeable people, they wouldn't design the console around a heatsink that large, nor would they waste money on precious metals and plastic for such a large console. Do cars with small motors require a radiator that would go on an 18 wheeler? You don't have to have experience in engineering, manufacturing, or thermodynamics to understand these basic concepts.

Actually I do. I am an electrical engineer.

Look, clearly you are grasping at concepts you don't understand. For example, you may need a big heat exchanger for a small motor depending on its efficiency and the load it is driving in the environment it has to operate in.

You don't know the selected thermal design point, you don't know the voltage levels the components are operating at, you know nothing about the pcb layout, you know nothing about the effective resistances, you don't know how to calculate electrical power, etc. You are just speculating based on a few loosely correlated variables and trying to pass it off as truth.

Yes clock speed affects power envelope, no it is not the only variable.

At the end of the day, why the fuck does this matter? Just play games on your favorite plastic box and be happy. Both are going to put out some heat.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

erm thanks for your technical design coarse right there. they managed to get a more powerful system together in a smaller space than the PS5 so yeah they done bad lol

Series X is also lighter too. Wouldn't be surprised if it drew less watts as well.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Actually I do. I am an electrical engineer.

Look, clearly you are grasping at concepts you don't understand. For example, you may need a big heat exchanger for a small motor depending on its efficiency and the load it is driving in the environment it has to operate in.

You don't know the selected thermal design point, you don't know the voltage levels the components are operating at, you know nothing about the pcb layout, you know nothing about the effective resistances, you don't know how to calculate electrical power, etc. You are just speculating based on a few loosely correlated variables and trying to pass it off as truth.

Yes clock speed affects power envelope, no it is not the only variable.

At the end of the day, why the fuck does this matter? Just play games on your favorite plastic box and be happy. Both are going to put out some heat.

Electrical engineer, but don't see anything wrong with this!? Ehhh I'm doubtful on your "experience" if you don't understand the relation to the size of the heatsinks, the larger power supply, and the higher clock speeds, and how you need to up the power to get there, which produces heat. Its a very simple concept, yet hard for many to understand apparently.


Or is it that Sony decided to waste more money on precious metals, over engineer a cooling solution, etc? Let's look at Nvidia RTX 30XX series for instance. They can draw more power than 20XX cards, and have upped the size of their heatsinks. I wonder why?! I don't have to know the voltages, resistances, current being used, quality of caps, etc, to understand that the ps5 will draw more current from the wall. Any electrical engineer or casual consumer could come to that conclusion by looking at the writings on the wall and using basic logic.


I literally work on amplifiers, more specifically their power supplies. Do you know why bigger amplifiers, have bigger heatsinks/chassis? To dissipate more heat, because they make more heat.

 

[RoadHazard]

That's not the only thing that reminds me of a PC. You need to get your tools out to change orientation and to add more storage. Did they forget they were building a console? There are many reasons console gamers go for consoles and not having to do that is one of them.

You had to use "tools" (a simple screwdriver) to replace the HDD on a PS3 or PS4 as well. Didn't seem to hurt their sales. Sure, most people probably never did it, because they didn't feel the need. Just like they won't next gen. It's a non-issue.

 

[FrankWza]

Even though it looks like Jenga, companies do stuff for a reason.

That said, it being so small could impact thermals quite a bit.

Sony's console is huge sure, but the bigger heatsink and fan are theoretically going to run the console cooler than the Series X.

I have no problem with the Xbox design team getting credit for making a smaller system or Sony's team for addressing fan noise and cooling with and getting credit there. There's a chance that neither will have issues or both may have issues anyway. But, going in, I'm glad that Sony didn't take the chance that making a system smaller would be as efficient with regard to noise and cooling. Because, if they failed with that approach, it would come across as a slap in the face to their consumers. if I were purchasing a series x, I would be concerned about cooling at that size.

But, if x doesn't have any issues then it's pretty crazy they were able to have similar specs in a box that small and they deserve all the credit. Sony just couldn't take that approach going into this gen after the noise/cooling on the PS4 gen. It would almost be similar to Msoft repeating an RROD situation or not going overboard to make that happen with xb1 or or coming in way underpowered again like the beginning of last gen. Msoft is trying to go faster and come out ahead in this race, and Sony needs to keep its foot on the gas and not let up. They both did what they needed to do for their boxes and their fans/consumers to feel like they are getting what they want and what they asked for.

 

[FrankWza]

Electrical engineer, but don't see anything wrong with this!? Ehhh I'm doubtful on your "experience" if you don't understand the relation to the size of the heatsinks, the larger power supply, and the higher clock speeds, and how you need to up the power to get there, which produces heat. Its a very simple concept, yet hard for many to understand apparently.


Or is it that Sony decided to waste more money on precious metals, over engineer a cooling solution, etc? Let's look at Nvidia RTX 30XX series for instance. They can draw more power than 20XX cards, and have upped the size of their heatsinks. I wonder why?! I don't have to know the voltages, resistances, current being used, quality of caps, etc, to understand that the ps5 will draw more current from the wall. Any electrical engineer or casual consumer could come to that conclusion by looking at the writings on the wall and using basic logic.


I literally work on amplifiers, more specifically their power supplies. Do you know why bigger amplifiers, have bigger heatsinks/chassis? To dissipate more heat, because they make more heat.

How could it be an over-engineered cooling solution if you think the components are going to generate more heat? Wouldn't that mean it is being cooled to spec? As far as I'm concerned, you can't over-engineer a cooling solution for a console if it only costs you some size. If it keeps you from installing better components, then yes, but not to sacrifice for the sake of making something that is stationary, smaller. And I still wonder, is either console going to just fit in most entertainment centers or TV stand or are most people putting them behind their tv or on their stand beside the tv?

 

[Clear]

Why would the bluray drive need much cooling? Games run from the SSD.

it still generates/receives heat over time, especially for example were you to be playing a blu-ray disc.

Look, I'm not trying to spread FUD, it'll probably be fine given MS engineering has historically been pretty damn good aside from situations where aggressive cost-cutting was involved (OG 360 and later Sidewinder pads spring to mind).

My only real issue is that with all these things being so packed, I don't see it as being as fault-tolerant as the more evenly distributed solution found with PS5.

 

[JackNightblade]

seems to me the xbox is exponentially better designed/engineered.

although ill cut the ps5 engineers a little slack considering they were forced by higher ups to overclock to extreme levels to narrow the tflop gap on paper. this forced the extra large fan and the comically large heatsink, which in turned forced the comically large and bizarre outer shell.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

How could it be an over-engineered cooling solution if you think the components are going to generate more heat? Wouldn't that mean it is being cooled to spec? As far as I'm concerned, you can't over-engineer a cooling solution for a console if it only costs you some size. If it keeps you from installing better components, then yes, but not to sacrifice for the sake of making something that is stationary, smaller. And I still wonder, is either console going to just fit in most entertainment centers or TV stand or are most people putting them behind their tv or on their stand beside the tv?

That's why I said, "OR is it that Sony...", meaning they will either run hotter, or Sony paid extra money for no reason. If it supposedly uses less power, it wouldn't need all the extra cooling that it has. But since it has a larger power supply, larger chassis, larger heatsink, a much higher clockspeed, etc, it's common sense to conclude it will pull more power from the wall.


OR is it that Sony over engineered a cooling solution, which would be a waste of money for what it actually required to dissipate the heat? They wouldn't need such a massive coming technique, if it requires less power, and they wouldn't go with a bigger power supply like they have.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I'm an 8 year electronics tech and worked on a bunch of weapons and radar/communication systems for both the Navy and Coast Guard. I've had my hands(and sparked/shorted) in my fair share of electronic systems. In my very humble opinion I think they are both designed beautifully. How any person could definitely say with ANY certainty that one is better than the other without actually putting their mitts on the hardware itself is beyond me. But I'll let all you super genius "engineers" have at it.

 

[TGO]

Series X reminds me of a high quality Lego set, PS5 reminds me of a cheap knock off Mega Blocks type brand