Support NeoGAF

[Jimmy_liv]

I must be the only person who doesn't see raytracing as huge as others see it. It's nice for sure, just the power cost seems to be staggering for minimal benefit (imo).

It's not a minimal benefit if it's done correctly, it's a massive visual benefit and frees up a hell of a lot of time.
That said I don't think we will see anything like the implementation we all want until PS6 and whatever the next xbox is.

 

[JackMcGunns]

Lmfao, so MS went with standard RDNA2, while Sony customised theirs?

And this is meant to be a bad thing?

No, it means that AMD hadn't finalized all of the features in RDNA2 and only one company waited to finalize theirs in conjunction. It's explained clearly in this Tweet:

 

[DForce]

I knew this Sony employee wasn't BSing back in the spring.

shinematch.in – India’s Premier Prediction Hub

Welcome to ShineMatch, Unlock Winning Insights for Cricket matches, Teer, Lottery & Colour Predictions. India’s most trusted hub for data-driven predictions — updated daily.

www.sportsgaming.win

Rosario Leonardi, an engineer at Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, gave us some interesting explanations, responding to a private message on social media: "I know you are curious, but I am legally bound and I cannot say anything that has not been made public. As you probably know, the architecture of PS5 is a middle ground between RDNA1 and RDNA2, with unique characteristics. Even PlayStation 4 Pro was a sort of hybrid between GCN2 and 4 ". Recall that for RDNA we mean Radeon DNA and it is a GPU architecture coming out in 2020, which should provide a 50% improvement in performance compared to RDNA1.

Just like the leak of the compute units from RDNA 1 on XsX?

Can't start moving goalpost now.

If PS5 doesnt fully support RDNA2, then don't call it RDNA2 console trying to BS people with their custom RDNA Kind of 2.0.

IT talks about fulling supporting features that were shown during MS presentation.

PR spin and you're falling for it hard.

 

[pasterpl]

I'm still trying to catch up. So everything is as it was rumored long ago, except that now that we have confirmation, these feature are now insignificant, not needed or irrelevant to PS5?

yes, that's about right

 

[turtlepowa]

Oh boy, 20 pages till tomorrow.

 

[halopower67]

My favorite part from these threads is the bracing for impact in the first page lmao.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

LOL. Reeee locked the RDNA2 thread as people were getting pissed.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Remember yesterday, when xbox official twitter was posting that only series x gets ac valhala at 4k60?

Yeah.

 

[Deleted member 801069]

lol

 

[EliteClarity]

I'm playing safe and just not worrying how other games look on another console but just NOT Looking at another console.

I'm sure by release day noone will even visit these threads anymore and noone will even remember the arguments in 6 months time.

Enjoy your games people, whatever side you choose.

 

[Tiamat2san]

 

[v_iHuGi]

Sony definitely never mentioned sampler feedback streaming or VRS so this must be true.

It's true, Sony developed their own techniques just like the SSD.

 

[Elginer]

Waaaaarrrioooorrrss come out and plaaaaay

 

[TrebleShot]

Remember yesterday, when xbox official twitter was posting that only series x gets ac valhala at 4k60?

Yeah.

When did that happen?

 

[MarkMe2525]

I bet today hurts for some people. That's why it's never a good idea to extrapolate on limited data. You end up over hyping yourself and undoubtedly are left feeling disappointed when the reality doesn't match your expectations.

 

[Sealord of Braavos]

I just want to see what Sony did with their customizations. They could be sitting on some amazing stuff but perhaps they are just entertained by watching all the speculation-based carnage.

Damn Sony and their poker face.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Remember yesterday, when xbox official twitter was posting that only series x gets ac valhala at 4k60?

Yeah.

Incorrect, it turns out that was an unofficial account. Ubisoft ended up amending the wording because the misunderstanding caused some headlines on other sites.

 

[Evilms]

no infinity cache on XSX so no full rdna 2.

 

[Golgo 13]

In all seriousness though, as someone that has gone out of their way to avoid the next gen thread, what's the significance of this news?

System Wars nonsense, is the significance of this news. Aka NeoGaf's first page for the last 6 months.

 

[OverHeat]

no infinity cache on XSX so no full rdna 2.

Look at tag

 

[OmaeWaMouShindiggity]

Microsoft is going too far, first Bethesda now RDNA2? I can't believe rockstar would sell out smh what's next gta6 Xbox exclusive?

 

[Deleted member 801069]

no infinity cache on XSX so no full rdna 2.

Posts in tech threads, doesn't understand.

 

[Raonak]

Well, PS5 is the only console that has Sony's customised RDNA2 experience.

Sounds good to me!

 

[NullZ3r0]

Obviously this is PR fluff.

If AMD decides to add things like cache scrubbers and Tempest Audio to RDNA 3, Sony could call PS5 a RDNA 2.5 or RDNA 3 part.

RDNA 2 leverages alot of DirectX 12U features, so technically MS can say this, but it's meaningless and allows MS to simp on AMD's RDNA 2 buzz.

 

[RaySoft]

So where are these MBs of cache in the 360mm2 Series X chip?
I have only two pics from them.

That render from the Xbox video.

And that X-ray from the Hotchips:

Both are the full 360mm2.

All the CU's are in the bigger black box.
Count the clusters that are in the small black boxes across the die, 7 in each row, with 4 rows.. 4*7=28. Since it's a dual CU setup you have to multiply that with 2 again, ending up with 56, wich is the Series X' CU count. (4 are disabled for yields)
That means that the infinity cache could hide somewhere inside the red square.

I have NO information on this, so this is purely my own speculation.

 

[Fake]

Sony lost. Is over. Doomed.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Remember yesterday, when xbox official twitter was posting that only series x gets ac valhala at 4k60?

Yeah.

Xbox official Twitter never did that

 

[OverHeat]

Thread reopen on reeee the salt is strong! Even more then here!

 

[Warnen]

It means as little as the faster ssd in the ps5, most games will take the middle ground and will hardly notice a difference. If lucky 1st party will put more effort into stuff and get some nice shit on both. Spider man and Elder Scrolls living in peace on there home platforms.

 

[Valued Gamer]

Sounds like technicalities at best. Obviously PS5 doesn't use DirectX Ray Tracing, so it doesn't have the full RDNA 2 integration as AMD describes it.

Red Gaming Tech has to really take a break. He was getting fed some bullshit and fell for it.
That's why you just keep quiet until everything is revealed.

 

[FlyyGOD]

I believe Sony have implemented their own versions which will take better advantage of their architecture.
So technically they have the same featureset but Xbox can spin it as Not Full RDNA2.

What are Sony's version of these features called. What's equivalent to Machine learning, VRS or sampler feedback in PS5.

 

[Jigsaah]

Psh, only 7 pages. I is disappoint.

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

Obviously this is PR fluff.

If AMD decides to add things like cache scrubbers and Tempest Audio to RDNA 3, Sony could call PS5 a RDNA 2.5 or RDNA 3 part.

RDNA 2 leverages alot of DirectX 12U features, so technically MS can say this, but it's meaningless and allows MS to simp on AMD's RDNA 2 buzz.

There's already a "gimped Tempest" on RDNA 1, it's TrueAudio Next: https://gpuopen.com/true-audio-next/
Instead of custom third party silicon (by Cadence) inside the GPU AMD started using the CUs to do this work.
Now that each CU can do hardware RT calculations it's audio processing capabilities were further enhanced.
That's what really means "each company makes it's own customization". Just means that they tell AMD what features they're most interested. Microsoft went with a bigger GPU because this way they could have more RT hardware for graphics. AMD went with a smaller GPU with some extra dedicated CUs for audio because Cerny was more interested on audio for haptics and VR.

 

[Handy Fake]

What are Sony's version of these features called. What's equivalent to Machine learning, VRS or sampler feedback in PS5.

I think they'll come under the blanket term of Geometry Engine. Be interested to see myself.

 

[JackMcGunns]

In all seriousness though, as someone that has gone out of their way to avoid the next gen thread, what's the significance of this news?

Info below is not mine, but informative.

"Anyone interested in some more info related to how these features might be used, here are some resources:

Variable Rate Shading Tech Focus and Introduction from Digital Foundry




Microsoft's DirectML presentation from GDC 2019



The mesh shaders (which we have signals Sony has a solution for) and sampler feedback functions in RDNA2 are also going to be an immediate benefit, where implemented, as described by AnandTech in their AMD/RDNA2 piece from today:

Meanwhile variable rate shading and mesh shaders are going to be less visible to end users, but they offer tangible performance improvements, and in the case of mesh shaders will eventually dramatically alter the geometry pipeline for games designed with mesh shaders as a baseline feature. Finally, sampler feedback will allow game developers to get a better idea of what textures and texel blocks within those textures are being used, allowing developers to better manage what assets are in VRAM and what needs to be pre-loaded.

(This article has a whole bunch of details pulled out from the AMD presentation)"

 

[VargasPaPuM]

Sounds like technicalities at best. Obviously PS5 doesn't use DirectX Ray Tracing, so it doesn't have the full RDNA 2 integration as AMD describes it.

custom means harder to develop and port from pc.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Remember yesterday, when xbox official twitter was posting that only series x gets ac valhala at 4k60?

Yeah.

Lmao that wasn't an official Xbox twitter account

 

[Matthias]

Hi guys,
I work in Poland as a programmer, I wrote some games for phones and I am working on a bigger indie game for consoles.
According to my information, Sony PS5 supports RDNA 2 technically, but cannot use DirectX12 solutions reserved for Windows and Xbox.

In practice, this means that the PS5 has more proprietary solutions inside the software and the GPU itself, but technically it is the same level.

Microsoft played a great marketing role.
In practice, Sony has applied many of its solutions, which are even better - Sony has a much better SDK for me.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I bet today hurts for some people. That's why it's never a good idea to extrapolate on limited data. You end up over hyping yourself and undoubtedly are left feeling disappointed when the reality doesn't match your expectations.

Actual article's "only consoles with all the RDNA2 features shown today" gets translated into "PS5 is RDNA1"... . Great for XSS/XSX, but it is more PR around what we knew already than much more than that.

Btw, Goossen finally confirmed that SFS 2.5x memory bandwidth multiplier was against a baseline of pure HW texture access, that is without using PRT/Tiled Resources or other HW accelerated virtual texturing solutions.

Sampler Feedback greatly improves memory efficiency by allowing games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it, providing an effective 2.5x memory and bandwidth multiplier beyond the raw hardware capabilities.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

There is something fishy happening in that PR.

If you looks at the SoC pics the Series X clearly lacks Infinite Cache that is one of the new hardware features in RDNA 2.
So it is not full RDNA 2 hardware.

Jesus Christ, Infinity Cache is not a "feature", it's a way to reduce memory bandwidth requirements for large 60 CU - 80 CU GPU.

It doesn't calculate anything, it doesn't cast rays and do intersections, it doesn't smartly reduce computation work loads. It's a big cache, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[VargasPaPuM]

Well, PS5 is the only console that has Sony's customised RDNA2 experience.

Sounds good to me!

Custom means harder to develop and port from other platforms

 

[Elog]

 

[Elias]

So now Sony has VRS and "custom" mesh shaders when they've never mentioned or used it in their games. Newsflash, people VRS is something you can observe in games. If it was there, we could see it.

 

[NullZ3r0]

This explains why MS devkits were late.

 

[Yoboman]

If PS5 doesnt fully support RDNA2, then don't call it RDNA2 console trying to BS people with their custom RDNA Kind of 2.0.

If there's nothing customised, don't call it custom RDNA 2

 

[FlyyGOD]

If Sony would just show what features its gpu has then NEOGAF wouldn't have to speculate on how close its system architecture is to RDNA2. Im seeing people say Sony has equivalent features without providing any proof of this.

 

[too much eslim]

So far all the best looking console exclusives have been PS5 games. So far, all the third-party games appear to be identical.

So far since waiting for the kits a lot of development kits were late so not going to see those features implemented right away.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Custom means harder to develop and port from other platforms

While that was true for PS3, for this upcoming generation there have been a lot of reports that developers are very happy with how easy PS5 is to develop for. It's not only MS that are good at writing APIs.

 

[Iced Arcade]

damn those first couple pages, almost slipped on all those tears and spinning.


that embargo makes sense now

 

[moedesty]

war is over. weakstation 5 vs powerbox X 0 - 1