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[molasar]

Atari Jaguar.

"System seller"



It doesn't get more ironic than that!

Do you suggest that other game sold better on Jag or the other one made customers but the system?

 

[molasar]

LOL.

Atari Jaguar, AVP and system seller should never ever be mentioned within the same context ever.

Put it this way. Virtual Boy sold more.

Remind me how old were you in 1994?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Why Tempest 2000 moves faster than Doom if we do not care about genres? How AvP's gameplay is impacted by frame rate negatively? Was the game designed for higher frame rate?

A low frame rate looks like crap, moves like crap, and is so slow you cant even turn your camera fast to shoot an alien behind you.

Doom is smoother. Even the Jaguar Doom edition moves pretty well for a console version.

 

[molasar]

A low frame rate looks like crap, moves like crap, and is so slow you cant even turn your camera fast to shoot an alien behind you.

Doom is smoother. Even the Jaguar Doom edition moves pretty well for a console version.

Lol. Because it is not an FPS. It is an open world game which combines many elements together.

Jag's Doom is FPS and was designed for this.

Again how old are you? Be honest here.

 

[nkarafo]

A low frame rate looks like crap, moves like crap, and is so slow you cant even turn your camera fast to shoot an alien behind you.

Doom is smoother. Even the Jaguar Doom edition moves pretty well for a console version.

Not to mention lower frame rates also add input lag, which makes the controls feel less responsive.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Remind me how old were you in 1994?

Why do you want to know? Are you going to sling personal attacks based on people's age?

Not to mention lower frame rates also add input lag, which makes the controls feel less responsive.

No doubt. Unless a game is turn based, any shooter like AVP moving at 15 fps is never good for responsive controls.

 

[molasar]

Not to mention lower frame rates also add input lag, which makes the controls feel less responsive.

Lol. Input lag in AvP. That is something new.

More nonsense from amateurs.

 

[molasar]

Why do you want to know? Are you going to sling personal attacks based on people's age?

Nope. It is obvious that you did not experience the 90s. That is why you spread nonsense.

So try harder next time.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Nope. It is obvious that you did not experience the 90s. That is why you spread nonsense.

So try harder next time.

Who's trying?

I even said to you earlier if you want to convince yourself from 28 years ago that AVP on Atari Jaguar is better than Doom, nobody is stopping you from believing that.

 

[nkarafo]

According to wiki:

Atari Jaguar Sales: 250.000
Virtual Boy sales: 770.000 (140.000 in Japan). Which means 630.000 just in the west. Still more than twice Jaguar's sales.

That is ABYSMAL lol.

So much for AVP being a "system seller".

So StreetsofBeige was right. Whch has nothing to do with how much experience he had in the 90's. Facts are just facts.

 

[molasar]

Who's trying?

I even said to you earlier if you want to convince yourself from 28 years ago that AVP on Atari Jaguar is better than Doom, nobody is stopping you from believing that.

Again AvP is not an FPS. And it is more interesting game because it combines many elements in a perfect way. They never made new installments based on its core.

Not to mention the both games were released close to each other and I had them both. Before Jag I experienced many other systems and nothing was close to it. Not even Space Hulk games.

Somehow people I knew back in the day had similar opinion. I wonder why? Was Doom overrated?

 

[molasar]

According to wiki:

Atari Jaguar Sales: 250.000
Virtual Boy sales: 770.000 (140.000 in Japan). Which means 630.000 just in the west. Still more than twice Jaguar's sales.

That is ABYSMAL lol.

So much for AVP being a "system seller".

So StreetsofBeige was right. Whch has nothing to do with how much experience he had in the 90's. Facts are just facts.

Do you understand what a term "system seller" means?

It means that a particular game makes people buying a system it runs on.

Lol. Rookies.

 

[nkarafo]

Do you understand what a term "system seller" means?

It means that a particular game makes people buying a system it runs on.

Lol. Rookies.

Do you understand the irony of giving a game the credit of the "system seller" as being a good thing, when we are talking about a console that was a complete failure sales wise?

Irony requires way too many brain cells to process.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

According to wiki:

Atari Jaguar Sales: 250.000
Virtual Boy sales: 770.000 (140.000 in Japan). Which means 630.000 just in the west. Still more than twice Jaguar's sales.

That is ABYSMAL lol.

So much for AVP being a "system seller".

So StreetsofBeige was right. Whch has nothing to do with how much experience he had in the 90's. Facts are just facts.

Considering how bad Jaguar sales were, it can be argued AVP killed the system. If AVP was promoted as the game to get for Jaguar and this is what happened to Jaguar, it shows nobody except for a maximum of 250,000 people agreed.

Now if Atari promoted Doom on Jaguar as the best console version to get at that time, it might had been a different story for Jaguar. Maybe it would had sold 500,000. Who knows. But there is no way people are going to buy a Jaguar system for sake of an AVP game.

At the time, Doom didn't run great on old PCs. You needed a 486 (like I had 486/66) which made the game run super smooth. Playing it on our older 386/33 played choppy (not much different than the console versions).

 

[nkarafo]

They never made new installments based on its core.

Maybe that's because..... dunno.... stay with me on this one.... listen... maybe.... just maybe.... the game was such a failure that no developer would like to make a similar one ever again?

Just a hunch.

Considering how bad Jaguar sales were, it can be argued AVP killed the system. If AVP was promoted as the game to get for Jaguar and this is what happened to Jaguar, it shows nobody except for 250,000 people agreed.

That's way too complex way of thinking for him to comprehend.

 

[molasar]

Do you understand the irony of giving a game the credit of the "system seller" as being a good thing, when we are talking about a console that was a complete failure sales wise?

Irony requires way too many brain cells to process.

What do you blame here? The AvP or a lack of following games which were on the same level? Do you understand what was happening in mid 90s? It was not like you have 3 market players now.

Yes, irony. More brain cells would be helpful for you.

 

[molasar]

Considering how bad Jaguar sales were, it can be argued AVP killed the system. If AVP was promoted as the game to get for Jaguar and this is what happened to Jaguar, it shows nobody except for 250,000 people agreed.

Explain what was happening in the mid 90s. How many consoles were competing on the market? Who knew who will win? Do you think that PS1 was already popular?

 

[molasar]

Maybe that's because..... dunno.... stay with me on this one.... listen... maybe.... just maybe.... the game was such a failure that no developer would like to make a similar one ever again?

Just a hunch.


That's way too complex way of thinking for him to comprehend.

You and your friend here never experienced those times. You either were not even born or were too young to understand what is going on.

Lol. Kids these days. Brainwashed and indoctrinated by the system.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You and your friend here never experienced those times. You either were not even born or were too young to understand what is going on.

Lol. Kids these days. Brainwashed and indoctrinated by the system.

So because we think Doom is better than AVP, you think we never gamed in the 90s.

Thats a new one.

What if I changed my mind and said AVP is awesome? Am I now a 90s gamer?

lol

Maybe you should get out of a bubble a bit more. Looking at your post history, it seems almost all of your posts are done in various Aliens or Predator threads.

There's more to gaming than Aliens and Predator franchises.

 

[nkarafo]

I'm confident that if Atari chose to ignore AVP and pushed games like DOOM or Rayman as the system sellers, it would sell more. DOOM was a decent port for a "dream game" that only an expensive PC could run at the time and Rayman was a very nice looking, smooth 2D platform that beat every 16bit one visually, instead of being a straight port of a 16bit platformer. AVP was looking too janky and jerky even on ads. Jaguar would still be a failure ofc but not as an embarrassing one probably.

I was 12 years old when the Jaguar was released. So save your ad hominem attacks.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm confident that if Atari chose to ignore AVP and pushed games like DOOM or Rayman as the system sellers, it would sell more. DOOM was a decent port for a "dream game" that only an expensive PC could run at the time and Rayman was a very nice looking, smooth 2D platform that beat every 16bit one visually, instead of being a straight port of a 16bit platformer. AVP was looking too janky and jerky even on ads. Jaguar would still be a failure ofc but not as an embarrassing one probably.

I was 12 years old when the Jaguar was released. So save your ad hominem attacks.

I just checked. I didn't know Wolfenstein came out for Jaguar too.

What they should had done is promote Wolfenstein and Doom as killer console software, which at the time would probably be the best console editions. PS and Saturn werent out yet.

Gamers would be familiar with the games, and not everyone played them unless they had good PC because playing them on weak PCs lead to lousy choppy experiences. In the early 90s, not all families even had a PC and if they did not many had a 486/66 like we upgraded to.

 

[molasar]

So because we think Doom is better than AVP, you think we never gamed in the 90s.

Thats a new one.

What if I changed my mind and said AVP is awesome? Am I now a 90s gamer?

lol

Maybe you should get out of a bubble a bit more. Looking at your post history, it seems almost all of your posts are done in various Aliens or Predator threads.

There's more to gaming than Aliens and Predator franchises.

Again look at the name of this thread.

The issue here is that you categorize AvP as FPS where it clearly is not.

I do not care about your preferences because it is about facts.

And you still did not prove that you understand what was happening in the 90s.

Also do you want to check me what systems and games I had or had access to? Do you know that my favorite game of all times is Killer Instinct Arcade from 1994, not any game with Pred or Alien in it?

In regards to my posts about Aliens or Predator. It was about P:HG and A:F. Obviously I had to debunk nonsense there which was not based on facts. Not to mention time has proven that I was right.

Better ask questions before stating things which are not factual.

 

[Reality Czar]

Guys it can be a system seller and the system just didn't sell that many units.

Yeah Wolfenstein and Doom were on it but those games were on everything. You could play them on SNES. SNES didn't have this. Wolfenstein is playable on a 386. There was no Aliens PC games, but there was a decent Doom TC.

Console exclusives are reasons to buy the console for sure.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Also do you want to check me what systems and games I had or had access to?

By the looks of it, you were one of the 250,000 people would bought a Jaguar. You can have it.

 

[nkarafo]

I just checked. I didn't know Wolfenstein came out for Jaguar too.

What they should had done is promote Wolfenstein and Doom as killer console software, which at the time would probably be the best consoles.

Gamers would be familiar with the games, and not everyone played them unless they had good PC because playing them on weak PCs lead to lousy choppy experiences.

Yes. And Wolfenstein was even better graphically than the PC version, with some remade, high-res textures and sprites.

- They had probably the best version of Wolfenstein 3D. The next best version was for the 3DO but the Jaguar was a far cheaper way to play it.
- They had a very competent version of DOOM (better than the 32X port) and the only better way to play it at the time was having an expensive 486 PC.
- They had Rayman, an extremely good looking game at the time IMO that sure, it appeared on PCs and other consoles later on but the Jaguar was still the cheapest way to play it, without many compromises.

Yet AVP was chosen as the killer app. A janky game that runs at 10 fps.

Yeah Wolfenstein and Doom were on it but those games were on everything. You could play them on SNES. SNES didn't have this.

Jaguar port was the best looking. SNES had a shitty, censored one. DOOM on SNES came later and it's almost an unplayable port running on a tiny screen.

The Jaguar was the cheapest way to play good ports of these games.

 

[PleaseDontBanMe]

wasn't there a PS1 port?

 

[Erdrick]

wasn't there a PS1 port?

Not to my knowledge but you might be thinking of Alien Trilogy, an early game for the PS1. And... Not actually horrible for the time.

 

[molasar]

I'm confident that if Atari chose to ignore AVP and pushed games like DOOM or Rayman as the system sellers, it would sell more. DOOM was a decent port for a "dream game" that only an expensive PC could run at the time and Rayman was a very nice looking, smooth 2D platform that beat every 16bit one visually, instead of being a straight port of a 16bit platformer. AVP was looking too janky and jerky even on ads. Jaguar would still be a failure ofc but not as an embarrassing one probably.

I was 12 years old when the Jaguar was released. So save your ad hominem attacks.

Lol. It is not what a seller chooses for being a system seller. It is buyers. Of course you need to get the information to them about your products. But even in my home country where a market was dominated by various computers I knew about Jag and what games will be released for it. Rayman never had a chance with games like Donkey Kong Country or Earthworm Jim.

And it is not my fault that you are not very bright. You just show it yourself through your own comments and an inability to have a constructive discussion.

There is nothing wrong with having different preferences but rejecting facts is hilarious.

Yes, 12 years old. Still dependent on parents.

 

[TheMay30thMan]

Do you suggest that I did not play it in '99 and its later Gold version?

Not at all. I’m simply impressed, or maybe baffled, by your ability to deny any form of discussion so you can continue living in oddly-fascinating, somewhat-delusional bubble where alien/predator games are omitted from any form of criticism. It’s truly amazing. I’m glad that your opinions exists in this world, and I will continue to watch this thread with great interest.

Also, whether you’ve played these game or not has no consequence to me. How old you are, what games you’ve played, this information gives your opinions no more weight than anyone else. Boasting that information just makes you look like you’re trying to prove something, not that you know something.

 

[nkarafo]

Yes, 12 years old. Still dependent on parents.

Obviously you are much older. That would explain your posts looking like coming from someone who is 90 years old.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not at all. I’m simply impressed, or maybe baffled, by your ability to deny any form of discussion so you can continue living in oddly-fascinating, somewhat-delusional bubble where alien/predator games are omitted from any form of criticism. It’s truly amazing. I’m glad that your opinions exists in this world, and I will continue to watch this thread with great interest.

Also, whether you’ve played these game or not has no consequence to me. How old you are, what games you’ve played, this information gives your opinions no more weight than anyone else. Boasting that information just makes you look like you’re trying to prove something, not that you know something.

Also resorts to personal insults.

I knew he would the second he asked people how old posters were in 1993. Saw it coming a mile away.

 

[Erdrick]

Yeah, I've never in my life heard anyone describe AvP on the Jaguar as open world. I always regarded it as a slower paced, licensed FPS that was essentially one of the very few reasons to even play a Jaguar, let alone be unfortunate to have spent money and have bought one.

So, I consider it a FPS.

 

[molasar]

I just checked. I didn't know Wolfenstein came out for Jaguar too.

What they should had done is promote Wolfenstein and Doom as killer console software, which at the time would probably be the best console editions. PS and Saturn werent out yet.

Gamers would be familiar with the games, and not everyone played them unless they had good PC because playing them on weak PCs lead to lousy choppy experiences. In the early 90s, not all families even had a PC and if they did not many had a 486/66 like we upgraded to.

In my home country computers dominated a gaming market but still I got information what games are coming up for Jag. Even Atari was not advertising anything here. In those times you had more gaming devices on the market Amiga computers, CD32, 3DO, CD-i, Gen with 32x and CD, SNES, PS1, Sat and PCs. It was not like you could get any and have some port of each game on it.

Jag's Wolf did not have strafe control implemented for some reason IIRC.

 

[molasar]

wasn't there a PS1 port?

They were working on it for PS1, Sat and PC. There was some early demo of PS1 version in 1997 E3 and they wanted to use the same technique in creation of characters like in Jag version. Nothing more is officially known about it if it would have the same core like its predecessor or more linear design. In the end they cancelled the project and moved to fully 3D version on PC making it from scratch.

 

[molasar]

Not at all. I’m simply impressed, or maybe baffled, by your ability to deny any form of discussion so you can continue living in oddly-fascinating, somewhat-delusional bubble where alien/predator games are omitted from any form of criticism. It’s truly amazing. I’m glad that your opinions exists in this world, and I will continue to watch this thread with great interest.

Also, whether you’ve played these game or not has no consequence to me. How old you are, what games you’ve played, this information gives your opinions no more weight than anyone else. Boasting that information just makes you look like you’re trying to prove something, not that you know something.

Lol. I am still waiting for constructive criticism. So far I only hear nonsense that it is a bad FPS when it is not even an FPS. That it has low frame rate yet it was build with this in mind. That it does not have Doom's structure, yet it was not supposed to have it. That it is not an open world game, yet no one can prove it is not.

It has a huge consequence if you experience games when they were released. As a proof no game from 1994 can impress any gamer nowadays.
And age has impact too. If someone is a stupid kid (not ad hominem, just system makes them like this) then they do not understand context of games or are not even allowed to play them (if parents are responsible).

 

[molasar]

Also resorts to personal insults.

I knew he would the second he asked people how old posters were in 1993. Saw it coming a mile away.

Lol. Since when age is a personal insult. I am 42. Do you have issues with my age?
Back then I was in a particular situation that I had access too many systems and games. The most people I knew did not.

 

[TheMay30thMan]

Lol. I am still waiting for constructive criticism. So far I only hear nonsense that it is a bad FPS when it is not even an FPS. That it has low frame rate yet it was build with this in mind. That it does not have Doom's structure, yet it was not supposed to have it. That it is not an open world game, yet no one can prove it is not.

It has a huge consequence if you experience games when they were released. As a proof no game from 1994 can impress any gamer nowadays.
And age has impact too. If someone is a stupid kid (not ad hominem, just system makes them like this) then they do not understand context of games or are not even allowed to play them (if parents are responsible).

Here’s my criticism:

It is an FPS. From what I can tell, your drive to prove that it’s not is based on your personal belief that just because it’s not a corridor shooter, it cannot be defined as an FPS. That’s a very narrow minded view, as the FPS genre is very broad and encompassing. By your logic, games such as Far Cry are not first person shooters. It’s laughable if you actually believe that.

It’s not an open world game, not even slightly. Its open, sure, but by today’s standard of open world, it clearly doesn’t make the cut. It wasn’t marketed as open world either, which makes your statements and facts conflict each other. You boast about your age, and understanding the 90s, yet you define the game by terms that defined and expanded upon in the future of gaming.

And regarding your last paragraph, no. It’s no consequence to me. You literally cannot prove me otherwise because that’s how I feel about the matter. Your disrespectful attitude to other people’s opinions garners no respect for your own. You own... opinions.

 

[molasar]

Yeah, I've never in my life heard anyone describe AvP on the Jaguar as open world. I always regarded it as a slower paced, licensed FPS that was essentially one of the very few reasons to even play a Jaguar, let alone be unfortunate to have spent money and have bought one.

So, I consider it a FPS.

Ok, let's play your game. I want to play as Marine in it. What should I do first? Is it linear? Do I have to clear a section to get to another level? Should I kill everything that moves? Should I collect particular items? What are the limits of environment? Is Resident Evil 1-3 a TPS and 7-8 FPS?

 

[molasar]

Here’s my criticism:

It is an FPS. From what I can tell, your drive to prove that it’s not is based on your personal belief that just because it’s not a corridor shooter, it cannot be defined as an FPS. That’s a very narrow minded view, as the FPS genre is very broad and encompassing. By your logic, games such as Far Cry are not first person shooters. It’s laughable if you actually believe that.

(in the processes of editing because I accidentally hit post. Pls be patient with me)

This is no criticism at all so far. You have not addressed anything here.
You just stated that it is an FPS without explanation why. And your example is laughable because in my previous comments I explained that games are mixing genres and emphasis on some elements is stronger. So all it takes is to describe those elements and asses emphasis level.

(I will correct my comment based on your update.)

 

[TheMay30thMan]

This is no criticism at all so far. You have not addressed anything here.
You just stated that it is an FPS without explanation why. And your example is laughable because in my previous comments I explained that games are mixing genres and emphasis on some elements is stronger. So all it takes is to describe those elements and asses emphasis level.

(I will correct my comment based on your update.)

Updated

 

[molasar]

It’s not an open world game, not even slightly. Its open, sure, but by today’s standard of open world, it clearly doesn’t make the cut. It wasn’t marketed as open world either, which makes your statements and facts conflict each other. You boast about your age, and understanding the 90s, yet you define the game by terms that defined and expanded upon in the future of gaming.

And regarding your last paragraph, no. It’s no consequence to me. You literally cannot prove me otherwise because that’s how I feel about the matter. Your disrespectful attitude to other people’s opinions garners no respect for your own. You own... opinions.

Perception standards and sensu stricto definition are two different things. You can bring any so called modern open world game and I can show you its limits that are unacceptable by me. Back then there was no genre called open world games and a game was marketed as a simulation based on Alien and Predator franchise where you can play as one of species. Not as an FPS, even if it has FPS elements in it. None of my statements conflict each other. Do you know that the 90s was a very experimental decade with huge jumps?

So prove that Killer Instinct Arcade (the most impressive video game for its time I ever experienced) is as much impressive nowadays as it was back then in comparison to other games for example.
Again opinions and facts are two different things. Those people are disrespecting me then I give them their own medicine. This is not my fault that no one has taught them how to have a constructive discussion.

 

[nkarafo]

It has a huge consequence if you experience games when they were released. As a proof no game from 1994 can impress any gamer nowadays.

False.

Old games can still be enjoyable for newer players. Games like Super Metroid, DOOM1/2, classic 2D fighting games, classic arcades, old Mario platformers, etc are still getting re-releases today and people who play them for the first time enjoy them. The only requirement is for these games to be good. I was impressed by how many people just discovered DOOM 64 after it's recent re-release and more people appreciate it now than back in the day where it was almost forgotten behind Turok's and Goldeneye's hype. Personally, i loved playing through Duke Nukem 3D recently, since i never fully played it back in the day. And i still enjoyed it more than most modern FPS games.

Just because AVP aged like shit because it's a janky game that runs at 10 fps, doesn't mean newer players don't enjoy old games. They just don't enjoy AVP. Because it aged like shit.

 

[TheMay30thMan]

Again opinions and facts are two different things. Those people are disrespecting me then I give them their own medicine. This is not my fault that no one has taught them how to have a constructive discussion.

This part is especially hilarious to me, as it appears that you can neither differentiate between facts and opinions, nor have a constructive discussion. I've gone through this entire thread and most of your arguments boil down to either saying "no, you're wrong," or "you have to provide proof, because I am already right without proof."

Your second response does nothing, but confuse me. In your first paragraph, you claim that perception and definition are different. Then, you say name a game and let YOU decide what it will be appropriately categorized as. Who made you the sole authority on game genres? Can you not see how maybe your bias is dictating what you perceive as facts? I won't comment on your obscure reference to Killer Instinct Arcade. Ultimately you second response didn't address anything I said constructively. You're just manipulating the conversation in your favor.

The meat is here, your first response:

This is no criticism at all so far. You have not addressed anything here.
You just stated that it is an FPS without explanation why. And your example is laughable because in my previous comments I explained that games are mixing genres and emphasis on some elements is stronger. So all it takes is to describe those elements and asses emphasis level.

(I will correct my comment based on your update.)

Everything I said was a criticism. Not just of the game, but of your own, narcissistic attitude. But if you must know my reasoning, here it is: It's a first-person shooter because the view is in first person, and there's shooting. 2/3rds of the campaign has shooting. It's not a corridor shooter, it's rather open, but that doesn't change the fact that an overwhelming majority of the game is an FPS. Like I said, it appears that the only reason you don't believe it's an FPS, is because you believe an FPS can only be set within corridors.

Bonus: The manual lists it as an FPS. Yes, I know, the summary lists it as a simulator. Would you care to address why only one part is right, and the other isn't? The argument can easily be played the other way. How do you justify omitting that information to convince other users that your opinions are facts?

I would like to take this time to reiterate my initial post in this thread. No, I don't believe Jaguar's AVP is open world. That being said, I've seen several references to Prey 2017 being "open-world," so I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

[PleaseDontBanMe]

Not to my knowledge but you might be thinking of Alien Trilogy, an early game for the PS1. And... Not actually horrible for the time.

i thought they were the same game all this time

 

[molasar]

False.

Old games can still be enjoyable for newer players. Games like Super Metroid, DOOM1/2, classic 2D fighting games, classic arcades, old Mario platformers, etc are still getting re-releases today and people who play them for the first time enjoy them. The only requirement is for these games to be good. I was impressed by how many people just discovered DOOM 64 after it's recent re-release and more people appreciate it now than back in the day where it was almost forgotten behind Turok's and Goldeneye's hype. Personally, i loved playing through Duke Nukem 3D recently, since i never fully played it back in the day. And i still enjoyed it more than most modern FPS games.

Just because AVP aged like shit because it's a janky game that runs at 10 fps, doesn't mean newer players don't enjoy old games. They just don't enjoy AVP. Because it aged like shit.

Lol. Read what I wrote before. It is about an initial impression and how conditioned your consciousness is. For me Killer Instinct in 1994 was as impressive as Terminator 2 in 1991. But generally speaking it is not impressive nowadays like it used to be.
When some members of avpgalaxy website played Jag's AvP on emu they found it enjoyable and they were surprised how effective it is even if being simplistic in comparison to modern games.
No complains from them about imaginary low frame rate which impacts gameplay negatively. Their comments are still on the website forum.
And you just speak nonsense.
In case of old games usually good gameplay stands a test of time, graphics in case of good pixel art and music.

 

[nkarafo]

Bonus: The manual lists it as an FPS. Yes, I know, the summary lists it as a simulator. Would you care to address why only one part is right, and the other isn't? The argument can easily be played the other way. How do you justify omitting that information to convince other users that your opinions are facts?

The part of the manual that describes it as a simulator refers to the game's plot. That the characters are partaking on a simulation or something.

The game itself is described as an FPS.

 

[nkarafo]

molasar You were the one complaining that people aren't impressed by games released in 1994, which is false.

And Killer Instinct 2 Arcade is still impressive enough today since there aren't many more fighting games with similarly pre-rendered graphics at the same quality.

 

[molasar]

This part is especially hilarious to me, as it appears that you can neither differentiate between facts and opinions, nor have a constructive discussion. I've gone through this entire thread and most of your arguments boil down to either saying "no, you're wrong," or "you have to provide proof, because I am already right without proof."

Your second response does nothing, but confuse me. In your first paragraph, you claim that perception and definition are different. Then, you say name a game and let YOU decide what it will be appropriately categorized as. Who made you the sole authority on game genres? Can you not see how maybe your bias is dictating what you perceive as facts? I won't comment on your obscure reference to Killer Instinct Arcade. Ultimately you second response didn't address anything I said constructively. You're just manipulating the conversation in your favor.

Again. Your cognitive dissonance is not my fault. Show me where I cannot differentiate between facts and opinions, nor have a constructive discussion. Burden of proof is always on those who claim something first. Those guys did. Also make yourself familiar with logical fallacies.

Do not manipulate here. I wrote perception standards and sensu stricto definition. You categorize games based on aspects. If a game is a mixed bag then honestly describe it as it is and show where emphasis is put on the most. Those are logical steps and no authority is necessary. There is no bias, only facts.
Killer Instinct was released in 1994. Obviously you won't comment because I am right about it.
I do not need any manipulations here. But for your own good do not try any eristics with me. You are not going to win anything with nonsense.

Everything I said was a criticism. Not just of the game, but of your own, narcissistic attitude. But if you must know my reasoning, here it is: It's a first-person shooter because the view is in first person, and there's shooting. 2/3rds of the campaign has shooting. It's not a corridor shooter, it's rather open, but that doesn't change the fact that an overwhelming majority of the game is an FPS. Like I said, it appears that the only reason you don't believe it's an FPS, is because you believe an FPS can only be set within corridors.

Bonus: The manual lists it as an FPS. Yes, I know, the summary lists it as a simulator. Would you care to address why only one part is right, and the other isn't? The argument can easily be played the other way. How do you justify omitting that information to convince other users that your opinions are facts?

I would like to take this time to reiterate my initial post in this thread. No, I don't believe Jaguar's AVP is open world. That being said, I've seen several references to Prey 2017 being "open-world," so I don't know what to believe anymore.

Lol. "but of your own, narcissistic attitude" Is it a projection?

Again. FPS is one aspect of it.
Which campaign requires you to shoot for 2/3rd of it? Is it about killing 2/3 enemies without saving or shooting constantly for 2/3 of time? So you say that there are no corridors in it? Is this correct? Rather open? Exactly how open? Do I need to show you drawn maps? What does it have to do with environment? How do you constantly shooting as Marine with limited ammo through 2/3 of campaign time? I do not use any believe here. The game is in an open world environment (a huge space base with two ET spacecrafts docked to it) and the only thing I cannot do is to go outside into outer space. It has FPS elements, RPG elements, horror e., survival e. tactical e., action adventure e.

Where the game's manual lists it as an FPS? I linked a scan of it. There are no two manuals. You just cited a different source. I do not have to convince anyone because I described what the game really is.
This thread was opened by a guy who never played a game but was spreading nonsense about it in a different thread. And I called him out on it.
So far no one has proven that the game's environment is not an open world type. You can try analyze Prey'17 too. Like what elements this game has, where emphasis is put on the most.

 

[molasar]

The part of the manual that describes it as a simulator refers to the game's plot. That the characters are partaking on a simulation or something.

The game itself is described as an FPS.

Show it where on the game's box, cartridge or manual it says that it is an FPS? A clear statement for a consumer that they deal with an FPS?

 

[molasar]

molasar You were the one complaining that people aren't impressed by games released in 1994, which is false.

And Killer Instinct 2 Arcade is still impressive enough today since there aren't many more fighting games with similarly pre-rendered graphics at the same quality.

Lol. Where did I complain that people aren't impressed by games released in 1994? You need to get rest because your brain is not working anymore.

I was talking about the same level of impression when games are released, not if something is still playable or stood a test of time. It is about making you "wow". Not to mention Rare's aesthetic style was very specific and today there is no need for pre-rendering method for sprites because modern software and hardware can handle it in real time. The issue is with limits of human eye perception when highly detailed 3D objects are moving fast and smoothly. They look good on screenshots but once in fast motion it is a mess. Very tiring for eyes.