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[polybius80]

did 480i games actually render at 480i tho? pretty sure they still rendered at 480p internally and sinply output an interlaced image

but ok, if they truly rendered at 480 interlaced, that would still be a 2x higher res.

I still doubt that's the case tho

interlaced means only 240 lines of pixels are on screen per field on your tv its not always straightforward to compare

 

[AREYOUOKAY?]

There you go talking down and belittling someone in one of your anti-Sega crusade threads. Every day is a new thread from you shitting on a company that hasn't produced a console in two decades:

Sega's consoles failed mostly because they only had one blockbuster FP franchise, Sonic (2 if you include Japan)

A lot of people come up with many theories as for Why Sega couldn't stabilize in the console space, but many of the reasons are straight forward just that many people who are attached won't admit so. One of these reasons is a very inconsistent first-party development arm, that at best could...

www.neogaf.com

Apparently, Microsoft was supposed to work with Sega to add an operating system and make software for the Saturn.

Seems like this fell through and a limited variation of this was done instead for the Dreamcast. Of course with the Xbox being planned and designed in 1998 and approved in 1999 I think MS just decided to do the minimum for the Dreamcast and never had much faith in Sega from the start. This goes...

www.neogaf.com

After 24 years of 3D Sonic, do you think there is a definitive 3D Sonic game? Or have they always been junk?

(Not including Sonic 3D Blast because it's not actually a full 3D game, 2.5D counts if there are polygons throughout the game) In 1997 Sonic R was the first complete fully 3D Sonic title, and ever since then we got games like the Sonic Adventure games, Sonic Riders, Sonic Heroes, Shadow, 2006...

www.neogaf.com

And that's not even acknowledging how you completely derailed the Saturn 3D games thread:

Most impressive 3D-Games for the Sega Saturn

Kind of curious what emulator does everyone prefer? Trying to get VF Remix up and running in MedGUi and it doesn’t seem to recognize my HRAP Pro for Xbox One Beetle core in RetroArch, that's Mednafen too but with the nice (after you get used to it, since it's the same for all emulator cores...

www.neogaf.com

Please show us on the doll where Sega hurt you so bad that you are on this crusade in 2021.

He's trying real hard to be the next Afro Republican. Bad biased poll threads and all.

 

[Romulus]

I was more impressed with PSP at the time than I am any other handheld, especially for its small size.

 

[Trimesh]

did 480i games actually render at 480i tho? pretty sure they still rendered at 480p internally and sinply output an interlaced image

but ok, if they truly rendered at 480 interlaced, that would still be a 2x higher res.

I still doubt that's the case tho

Internally, all the rendering is done on 32x32 pixel tiles, which are always the same resolution irrespective of the video mode. The only difference is at the rasterization stage where interlaced mode uses a half-sized frame buffer and only renders the lines needed for the current field - however the texture fetches (which also occur at this stage) are still full-sized because the hardware can't predict at this point which texels will map to displayed pixels and which don't. The actual FB writes are faster (simply because there are only half as many pixels), but this is such a small effect you can basically ignore it.

So if you're being precise, it doesn't actually render at 480p in 480i mode - but it's a semantic distinction rather than one with any practical impact.

The deferred rendering used by the DC is an extremely clever and power-efficient system - which is why it lives on in lots of mobile phone SoCs where power/performance is a huge deal.

 

[muteZX]

For the first few years the PSP was capped at 222Mhz for its CPU and 111Mhz for its GPU/Media engine, It wasn't until around 2008 (i think) when Sony unlocked the full CPU speed, and even then some games had to specify that speed in order to use it, existing games didn't benefit unless you soft-modded the console.

As for which one is better, based on the Crazy Taxi comparison posted earlier the DC looks more fluid and has more detailed textures, whilst the PSP has a noticeable blur, and I think the HUD is being stretched.

DC is my very favorite system. Together with the Megadrive, it is a pair of perfect SEGA consoles. DC has a perfectly balanced CPU, GPU with very efficient tile based rendering, plenty of RAM, super IQ .. but the PS2's performance is somewhere else, the image quality is appalling, but the performance is tremendous. A game like Black would run on DC with singel digit framerate, same with hundreds of running NPCs in Hitman or SOE2. The strength of the vector units and the multipass rasterization is out of the DC league.

The practical performance of the PSP is determined by the "current" it can draw from the battery and the budget invested in games. In both cases, it is misery. In the native HW "high perf" setting of the PSP, ie 333Mhz for CPU and 166Mhz for a GPU with more RAM than with DC, the PSP can easily and anytime handle SEGA DC. Too bad the PSP didn't get a display with at least SVGA 640x480p resolution to make the comparison fair. And of course, the PSP game engine won't try to get on a small mobile display with a low resolution 1K texture, duh.

 

[FromDuskTillGameOver]

Shenmue 1 I don't see why not.

Shenmue 2 is interesting because even the DC has issues running that, still keeping the pop-in textures and characters from the first game, inconsistent graphics and slowdown. The question is whether the PSP would end up with the same issues or not, and I think that depends on how demanding the GTA games were on the PSPS, because if they were notably more demanding than Shenmue 2 than the PSPS could likely run it better, if not than similar or worse than the DC.

I think its about texture compression and how good the DC handled it to make Shenmue 1 and 2 work. I remember reading in a magazine that Shenmue could never run on a PS2 because of this. How that translates to a PSP idk.

 

[stranno]

PSP has a baby resolution. Even in 480p it doesn't fill the screen of any tv natively and the visuals do take a bit of a hit. It also looks great though, just subpar in comparison to the DC if you had both set up side by side on a TV.

Standard resolution on mobile devices back in 2005 was 176x208, including the N-Gage (which is a regular S60v1/2 device, it is not anything special).

Even in 2007, the standard resolution was 240x320. Except the iPhone (640x360). Nokia didn't catch up until 2008.

3DS is 800x240..

480x272 was pretty amazing in late 2004.

 

[muteZX]

I think its about texture compression and how good the DC handled it to make Shenmue 1 and 2 work. I remember reading in a magazine that Shenmue could never run on a PS2 because of this. How that translates to a PSP idk.

Ehm, hm .. Yakuza or raytraced puddles .. heh.

and PSP .. its on fire !!

 

[Trimesh]

I think its about texture compression and how good the DC handled it to make Shenmue 1 and 2 work. I remember reading in a magazine that Shenmue could never run on a PS2 because of this. How that translates to a PSP idk.

PSP has texture compression - but it's optimized for speed rather than compression ratio (which makes sense, since the PSP GPU has embedded RAM for speed and if the compression was a major performance bottleneck people just wouldn't use it) - the PowerVR texture compression is more expensive in compute terms, but because of the deferred rendering architecture things only get decompressed if you can actually see them.
This does make it hard to give a definitive answer to the question "what's the performance", because it depends on the scene structure and how many occluded textured polys there are in the scene - if we take a deliberately degenerate example of a screen that consists of 4 full-screen textured polygons stacked on top of each other in Z (and assume no culling) then the PSP would have to render (and hence decompress the textures for) all 4 of them while the DC would only have to process the texture for the topmost visible one.
Of course this is, as I said, a degenerate example - the degree of overdraw in real life scenes is typically going to be lower than that (although 2-3 is certainly quite possible) and most real software culls polys that are definitely occluded before they ever hit the renderer.
This is also not an indictment of the PSP's GPU - it's a nice piece of silicon and has a bunch of features that the PVR in the DC simply doesn't - it's more a reflection of the hidden problems when porting software. Code that was originally written for the DC will often have significant overdraw - precisely because overdraw is cheap on that hardware and if doing the occlusion calculations was going to take more resources than simply converting the polys to screen space and letting the GPU sort if out that's exactly what you would do.

 

[Alexios]

Ehm, hm .. Yakuza or raytraced puddles .. heh.

and PSP .. its on fire !!

Yakuza PS2 has nothing on Shenmue. It's even evident in your screens. Barely any environmental detail and even blockier models. It was fine because more often than not you had an almost overhead camera. Loading every few steps. Battles in a separate field. Good cut scenes though.

Still, both Saturn and DC suffer more from primitive development techniques than their actual power as none of them got far in their respective generation to take advantage of ever improving tech know how, from programmers and artists.

As amazing a job as Namco did, It's not fair to compare a rushed to launch port/remaster/almost remake of the far inferior arcade SoulCalibur to later entries in the series that took advantage of more powerful hardware from the ground up.

Similarly you can tell just from looking at wireframes that Shenmue has a ton of wasted polygons everywhere and especially on characters. They just didn't know better at the time, to refine their technique and achieve similar results with less but better distributed polygons.

Virtua Fighter 3tb suffers from similar, by being an even older arcade game far before such techniques were advanced. Hence why Dead or Alive 2 looks much nicer, it's 1996 vs 1999 techniques.

This made development harder in other ways too. Like how they had to have separate version of each environment for different seasons, because there was no methodology at the time to simply transition them from one to the other with shaders or texture blending or whatever.

And yes, the vast majority of Dreamcast games are 480p(rogressive scan) capable (and many that aren't are for reasons outside power, like for example 2D fighting games that ran at the arcade 240p for pretty scanlines, it actually sucks for a few that don't and internally upscale the sprites etc so you can never get nice scanlines no matter what you do), hence why for a couple years at least the mostly 480i PS2 games looked far more aliased and blurry, even if they had other things going for them like all kinds of motion blur and lighting effects developers started utilizing.

 

[phil_t98]

I have a PSP still and use it still. I will say those gifs are more akin to an emulator rather than how they ran on PSP itself. The console was amazing but limited. I think the Dreamcast was a bit better when you see the games in person. MSR was amazing on the Dreamcast. If i remover right gran truismo on the PSP had limited cars on track and had quite a few cut backs. Both great games btw

 

[muteZX]

Yakuza PS2 has nothing on Shenmue. It's even evident in your screens. Barely any environmental detail and even blockier models. It was fine because more often than not you had an almost overhead camera. Loading every few steps. Battles in a separate field. Good cut scenes though.

oof .. you can literally take any sandbox game for PS2, remove the ability to control the vehicles /pun intended/ and after changing the textures and camera you have Shenmue. Voila.

 

[Alexios]

Seems you're blind, none reach Shenmue's polygons and textures per asset and it's not fair to expect them to either because they do other things (like actually being sandbox for example). Unless by "changing the textures" you mean making them far superior alongside upgrading most models.

oof .. you can literally take any sandbox game for PS2, remove the ability to control the vehicles /pun intended/ and after changing the textures and camera you have Shenmue. Voila.

Maybe True Crime gets close in some instances.

Or Hitman 2 taking in account the huge crowds in some scenes (but then again, it's not a game with real time day night cycles and what not changing on the fly).

And yes, the later the game, the more advanced the techniques and development process, hence Bully being that good, 7 years removed from Shenmue. Though in interior scenes it often still suffers in comparison.

 

[nkarafo]

I think the DC has more RAW power and can push more polys at higher frame rates.

However, the PSP supports more modern technics and shaders which can make games look better.

It's like comparing an old top-tier DX7 graphics card and a more modern (but lower-tier) DX9 card. The former will still run games at higher resolutions and frame rates but the later will look better, with better looking effects.

 

[muteZX]

Seems you're blind, none reach Shenmue's polygons and textures per asset and it's not fair to expect them to either because they do other things (like actually being sandbox for example). Unless by "changing the textures" you mean making them far superior alongside upgrading most models.

Maybe True Crime gets close in some instances.

Or Hitman 2 taking in account the huge crowds in some scenes (but then again, it's not a game with real time day night cycles and what not changing on the fly).

And yes, the later the game, the more advanced the techniques and development process, hence Bully being that good, 7 years removed from Shenmue. Though in interior scenes it often still suffers in comparison.

Theeere you have it .. walking streets, talking people, breaching houses /no loading !!!/, bueno water effects /1:11:48/, dat pool !!

/Outcast 2 - take it or leave it/ .. AmonRa .. shocking gfx .. I know.

 

[mcjmetroid]

I still believe the Dremacast is more powerful.

You need to understand that the Dreamcast was released years before the PSP and even 3D development in general had moved far and developors had years of experience by the time the PSP was released.

We know the PS2 is more powerful than the PSP for instance and putting those games you posted up against Tekken Tag or GTA III and the PSP is going to win again.

It's all about timing a lot the time.

 

[Alexios]

Theeere you have it .. walking streets, talking people, breaching houses /no loading !!!/, bueno water effects /1:11:48/, dat pool !!

/Outcast 2 - take it or leave it/

Well, that's not walking streets and breaching houses, it's one level, with a specific street and house. Don't make it out like it's some open world game when it's not. Also, I wasn't saying there aren't any PS2 games to rival Dreamcast, just that Yakuza and whatever in particular didn't.

 

[muteZX]

Well, that's not walking streets and breaching houses, it's one level, with a specific street and house. Don't make it out like it's some open world game when it's not. Also, I wasn't saying there aren't any PS2 games to rival Dreamcast, just that Yakuza and whatever in particular didn't.

Of course, there is not a specific PS2 game that exactly meets the Shenmue "specifications". However, PS2 is significantly more powerful than DC, it is almost a generational difference. Too bad something like Shenmue didn't come up on this engine, eh.

Back to PSP .. nice little engine.

 

[Spukc]

Sony psp does what Dreamcan't

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

I don't think that's correct? Dreamcast games generally ran at 480i; the VGA adapter ran the component signal as cleanly as possible but I think that was still generally 640x480 interlaced.

There's a difference between 480i output and internal interlaced field rendering. I don't know about DC but a good many games render at 480p internally on PS2 before dropping half the lines for the output.

However that poster was incorrect about PSP games, which render at 272p.

 

[Alexios]

I still believe the Dremacast is more powerful.

You need to understand that the Dreamcast was released years before the PSP and even 3D development in general had moved far and developors had years of experience by the time the PSP was released.

We know the PS2 is more powerful than the PSP for instance and putting those games you posted up against Tekken Tag or GTA III and the PSP is going to win again.

It's all about timing a lot the time.

Basically, yeah. Also people show stuff like open world racers and what not. There's nothing like that to compare on DC. But comparing what it did get to comparable PS2 games it's not far removed enough to believe PSP, which didn't best PS2, bests it.

Ferrari 355 Challenge, Le Mans 24 hours/Test Drive Le Mans, Metropolis Street Racer, aren't that far removed from what came out on PS2, more efficient development techniques aside, and it's similar for Dead or Alive 2 compared to other fighters etc.


I'd say MSR is the one to utilize most modern development techniques on DC. It does suffer a bit in performance at times but still looks nice even if you use the least demanding options (turn off tire smoke , don't use the wider fov camera or high quality mirrors etc).

I suppose it was pretty modern to not care so much about the odd performance hiccup, hah. But I still prefer the stylish crisp and clean look of something like Daytona USA 2001. There's almost too much detail for 480p in MSR, which looks brilliant when emulated.


More blind person videos in the following post, emulated (and despite that look at those textures, that's not even PS2 quality, never mind Dreamcast) at that and/or at 10 fps, lol. Daytona gets up to 40 cars and Le Mans gets 24 with real time day/night cycle and weather. Nothing ever approaches MSR's track detail.

 

[muteZX]

not so fast Dreamcast .. Toca 2 /21 cars on track/ .. Midnight Club .. Motorstorm.

 

[small_law]

I disagree. The PSP's graphical limitations were evident out of the box. Even if you ballpark it with the rest of that console generation, you're talking about a mobile processor on batteries versus an APU in an actively-cooled enclosure drawing power from a wall. Dreamcast wins on power and thermals alone.

 

[Alexios]

Numbers then! The polycount of Dead or Alive 2 Limited in-gameplay characters on Dreamcast ranges from 8000+ to 9000+ triangles (that basically tops the full Tekken Tag Tournament on PS2 where most are below 7000), with full 3D arenas (to be fair though, to actually play tag you could only be in a simpler arena).

Lei Fang, black outfit, 8.884 polygons

Helena, (outfit 6), 9.246 polygons

TTT PlayStation 2
Jim Kazama, 6.534 polygons

Ling Xiaoyu, 6.755 polygons

Virtua Fighter 4 models on PS2 are around 7000 (on the Arcade double that, huge downgrade) so DC could have had a port even if the VF3tb port faltered (like I said, older modeling techniques & wasted polygons, some VF3tb DC characters do have over 7000 polys and it has Tekken 4-esque uneven arenas!).

Dead or Alive 2 Limited DC = 47,371 tris per frame @ 60 fps = 2.8 million polygons per second.

SoulCalibur DC Cervantes vs Siegfried: 28,611 tris per frame x 60 fps =1.7 mpps. As I said, it's an older fairly modest game, as good as it was for the time. Just a rushed remaster of the PS1-esque original arcade version. Again, art simply trumps specs.

Broken Destiny PSP: Cervantes vs yoshimitsu = 16,845 tris per frame (characters are around 3000-4000 each) x 60 fps = 1 mpps

Tekken 5 PSP: Lei vs Xiaoyu = 17,231 x 60 fps = 1 mpps

TTT PS2: 39,850 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.3 mpps (you never see more than 2 characters on screen for special attacks or throws or whatever, one has ALWAYS swiftly left when the teammate tags in, unlike DOA2)

TTT PS2: 24,874 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.5 mpps

Virtua Fighter 4 PS2: 40,771 tris per frame (again the characters aren't super high poly sitting closer to TTT than DOA2 but due to the awesome 3D scenery, even if not multi tiered like DOA2's, and deformable snow and stuff, it peaks well) x 60 fps = 2.4 mpps

An example of how low the people are in quality in Yakuza 2: 36,028 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.08 mpps

An example of how shitty the art can be on the Dreamcast despite high polygon counts: 49,563 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.4 million polygons per second (Time Stalkers, a passable JRPG worth it for the awesome mini dungeon crawler you can download and play on your VMU, the culprit for its dead battery in my case)

PS2 version of RE4: 17,680 tris per frame x 30 fps = 530K pps (tons of culling compared to other versions where the same scene pushes over 1m pps)

Metal Gear Solid 2 Tanker: 24,904 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.5 mpps

Star Wars Episode 1: Jedi Power Battles Dreamcast = 43,014 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.58 mpps (once again with the shit art and wasted polygons all over)

3rd Birthday various asset polycounts here. They're all SUPER LOW. But it looks damn good, once again because art. Duh.

In short, no, you can't just eyeball this shit by what looks good to you (and claim Yakuza 2 looks like Shenmue). More aesthetically pleasing doesn't mean more demanding. Though it's clear PS2 could do more complex rendering/lighting/great framebuffer effects and so on and so forth. So its strengths were in different places than DC on top of polygon counts. And it did eventually take way better advantage of evolving know how in development so that cases like that Time Stalkers on DC or Jedi Power Battles above weren't so shit. Or, well, they were, but it also got the way better shit everyone praises. All sourced from this thread, lots more info there.

"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

Is he a model from another game? What? I ll kill you re!!! :razz: Better you said nothing :lol:

forum.beyond3d.com

Edit: Btw your quote (sourced from my link above, don't act like I hid it) unlike these FACTS AND NUMBERS, just paraphrases crazy PR claims of yore as just that, crazy PR claims. And yet you take a random's statement on the internet as gospel and quote it while going lalalalalala I can't read numbers, you're wrong!

As for open worlds, how about some "robust" 60fps? No dodgy shooting is an improvement if you ask me but it's subjective. Anyway, loads of traffic, pedestrians & some great vistas all heavily reduced on PSP's <30fps. Pointing to Headhunter to say DC can't do it is like pointing to No More Heroes to say Wii can't.


Oh lookidat, dynamic day/night, weather changing from dry to rain & back with 24 cars, faux reflections on the body and wet track, camera droplets etc. Just because it wasn't in an earlier video doesn't mean the game doesn't do all this shit I explained. Bonus flight siming, the footage isn't but the game is 60fps.


It's from the same developer as your precious Grand Prix Challenge which naturally is further refined and tailored to the PS2's strengths. That developer also claimed Le Mans pushes 5 million polys per second on DC & that's why you should take 15 mpps on PS2 with a mountain of salt rather than as gospel, lol.

Ratchet & Clank pushed its great poly numbers by only using 2bit (4 color) and 3bit (8 color) textures among other things. That game was released after GPC on PS2 and required these huge sacrifices to hit (if true) 6 mpps. But nope, let's accept the 3rd party wizards that made GPC sacrificed nothing and hit 15!

TL;DR, nothing on PSP, not even your precious tech demos, comes close to the ballpark of the best above, where DC easily matches contemporary visually wonderful PS2 games that far exceed the best ever on PSP. /thread. Triggered fanboys & haters who can't accept the receipts over PR need not apply here

 

[muteZX]

Sigh. Here are some numbers then. The polycount of Dead or Alive 2 Limited characters on Dreamcast ranges from 8000+ to 9000+ triangles (that basically tops the full Tekken Tag Tournament on PS2 where most are below 7000), with the 3D levels (to be fair to actually play tag you could only be in one simpler level in DOA2).
Lei Fang, black outfit
Dead or alive 2 Dreamcast.
8.884 polygons

Dead or Alive 2 Dreamcast
Helena, (outfit 6),
9.246 polygons

Tekken tag tournament, Playstation 2

Jim Kazama,
6.534polygons

Ling Xiaoyu
6.755polygons

Hell, Virtua Fighter 4 models on PS2 are around 7000 (on the Arcade they have double that so it's a pretty huge downgrade) so DC could have clearly had a port of that too, even if the VF3tb port faltered (like I said, older modeling techniques & wasted polygons, some VF3tb DC characters do have over 7000 polys!).

Dead or Alive 2 dreamcast = 47,371 tris per frame @ 60 fps = 2.8 million polygons per second.

Soul calibur DC cervantes vs seigfried : 28,611 tris per frame x 60 fps =1.7 mpps

soul calibur broken destiny psp :Cervantes vs yoshimitsu = 16,845 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1mpps

Tekken5 PSP lei vs xaioyu = 17,231 x 60 fps = 1mpps

tekken tag ps2 :39,850 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.3 mpps

tekken tag :24,874 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.5 mpps

Virtua Fighter 4: 40,771 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.4mpps

An example of how low the people are in quality in Yakuza 2.: 36,028 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.08 mpp

An example how shitty the art can be on the dreamcast despite high polygon counts:49,563 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.4 million polygons per second

PS2 version of RE4: 17,680 tris per frame x 30 fps = 530K pps

Metal gear solid 2 prologue : 24,904 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.5mpps

Star wars episode 1: Jedi power battles Dreamcast = 43,014 tris per frame x 60 fps = 2.58 mpps

In short, no, you can't just eyeball this shit by what looks good to you. More aesthetically pleasing doesn't mean more demanding. Though it's clear PS2 could do more complex rendering/lighting/great framebuffer effects and so on and so forth. So its strengths were in different places than DC. And it did eventually take way better advantage of evolving know how in development so that cases like that Time Stalkers on DC or Jedi Power Battles above weren't so shit. Or, well, they were, it got some of these games too, but it also got the way better shit everyone praises. All sourced from this thread, lots more interesting stuff there.

"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

Is he a model from another game? What? I ll kill you re!!! :razz: Better you said nothing :lol:

forum.beyond3d.com

TL;DR, PSP doesn't come close to PS2, while DC in many cases does.

Just don't. DC fails GT4 in 1080i/60, fails MGS2 at 60 fps, fails 250+ NPCs in SOE2 or Hitman. AmonRA or Outcast 2 it can't do even by mistake. DC is a Voodoo 3 class system. PS2 with a fully programmable vertex stage / VUs / and a gargantuan GS rasterizer is a completely different league.

PS2 is a powerhouse, DC is not.

" .. for jak and daxter 2 the game was peaking at around 15 millions polygons per second, and for burnout 13 millions."

Simply NO .. DC absolutely never can even touch this or that .. sorry ..




"We have the most complete and detailed F1 car models (more than 11,000 polygons per raw car model, 20,000 polygons with multipass effects) running on the most complete and detailed F1 tracks (more than 500,000 polygons per track) yet. Add to this dynamic weather effects including variable-strength rain composed of up to 10,000 individual particles, sunny to wet transitions, dynamic environment mapping, per-pixel road lighting, and full-on wet-weather spray effects with all 22 cars generating up to 1,000 spray particles. We have multipass rendering for graphical effects such as reflection of real trackside environments and reflection on track surfaces. Actually there are tons of subtle and not-that-subtle effects in the game. It's "particle city" out there on the track! Achieving this with a full field of 22 cars at a nonstop 60fps is an achievement we are extremely proud of."




Same shit .. a sandbox action with so much alpha/transparencies at 60 fps, that it will kill even much modern HW.

 

[muteZX]

back to the PSP ..

"The flexibility and low-level access of the engine allowed for some really advanced effects for the PSP. Full screen AA was implemented by rendering the frame buffer at 512x384 pixels and then downsampling to the native 480x272 screen."

"I came up with various techniques to create a vibrant and detailed world on the limited hardware while keeping the frame rate at 60 fps."

 

[Oddvintagechap]

PSP is a fucking classic.

That’s all I have to say.

 

[UnNamed]

Maybe on paper PSP is more powerful than DC, but there's no game where I feel PSP exceed DC.

DC vs PS2? PS2 was way more powerful, see SEGA GT Vs RRV. SGT had better IQ, but RRV had tons of polygons:14 cars on screen with 3D rims, visible brakes and fully modeled internal cockpits.
Or DoA2 Vs TTT: 3D ground and grass, crowd, 3D background, some light material effect, better illumination.

 

[muteZX]

Maybe on paper PSP is more powerful than DC, but there's no game where I feel PSP exceed DC.

DC vs PS2? PS2 was way more powerful, see SEGA GT Vs RRV. SGT had better IQ, but RRV had tons of polygons:14 cars on screen with 3D rims, visible brakes and fully modeled internal cockpits.
Or DoA2 Vs TTT: 3D ground and grass, crowd, 3D background, some light material effect, better illumination.

e.g. GTA VC stories for PSP has massively more robust engine than Headhunter for DC and God of War games for PSP are simply wonderful and sandbox TDU is nice. The problem is that the Dreamcast prematurely ended before it could reach its full potential and the PSP was in the vast majority of cases just a collector of half-assed multiplat game ports.

 

[Fafalada]

Biggest bottleneck of PSP was probably the 4MB of unified eDRAM memory for textures and buffer.

PSP had unified memory addressing, GPU/CPU had access to all of 32MB main + 2MB eDram.
It also had dual core CPU, so there was substantially more compute available there.

The biggest bottleneck was the memory bus, partly because it was designed for eDram, so it was quite weak at arbitrating access to external DRam, starving the CPU of access, partly because also just wasn't quite wide enough to feed the GPU when not accessing data from eDram. PSP was really fiddly to not end up memory-access limited and waste a ton of performance because of this, but since its nearest competition was a PS1 class device, it never mattered much.

so even if the game would visually look identical in every other way, the Dreamcast would still render at 4x the resolution of the PSP

2x

PSP has texture compression - but it's optimized for speed rather than compression ratio

It's DXTC, the same as in every other console GPU from first XBox onwards. The caveat is implementation decompresses texels when they're loaded into texture-cache, which actually hurts performance due to aforementioned bus limitations I mention above. A larger cache, or one capable of holding compressed texels would have solved that, but mobile chips often make sacrifices like this.

 

[muteZX]

btw F Fafalada is .. a real coder for these machines, not the armchair warrior.

 

[ManaByte]

He's trying real hard to be the next Afro Republican. Bad biased poll threads and all.

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

These comparisons are a reminder at how bad old games where with making efficient use of polygons.
Many games with too much polygons and too little detail.

 

[AREYOUOKAY?]

What a shame as we won't get a sequel to this thread with the topic of "Could the Vita produce better demanding games than the Game Gear or Master System?"

 

[01011001]

has anyone tried running this on Series X? damn... I'm kinda in the mood to replay this...

 

[Corgi1985]

Damn i thought this was a switch game at first until i saw it has a steady framerate

 

[01011001]

Damn i thought this was a switch game at first until i saw it has a steady framerate

 

[hussar16]

Dreamcast is better then ps2 in some aspects .some games look much better that are on both so no not even close

 

[muteZX]

has anyone tried running this on Series X? damn... I'm kinda in the mood to replay this...

sorry PS2 only, really nice playability, semisandbox maps /semi = not as huge as GTA, heh/, nonlinear approach to problem solving.

 

[01011001]

sorry PS2 only, really nice playability, semisandbox maps /semi = not as huge as GTA, heh/, nonlinear approach to problem solving.

I'm aware that this is a PS2 only game, but you can emulate PS2 on Series X|S, it's just that PS2 emulation isn't perfect, hence why I asked if someone knows how it runs

 

[Fat Frog]

There you go talking down and belittling someone in one of your anti-Sega crusade threads. Every day is a new thread from you shitting on a company that hasn't produced a console in two decades:

Sega's consoles failed mostly because they only had one blockbuster FP franchise, Sonic (2 if you include Japan)

A lot of people come up with many theories as for Why Sega couldn't stabilize in the console space, but many of the reasons are straight forward just that many people who are attached won't admit so. One of these reasons is a very inconsistent first-party development arm, that at best could...

www.neogaf.com

Apparently, Microsoft was supposed to work with Sega to add an operating system and make software for the Saturn.

Seems like this fell through and a limited variation of this was done instead for the Dreamcast. Of course with the Xbox being planned and designed in 1998 and approved in 1999 I think MS just decided to do the minimum for the Dreamcast and never had much faith in Sega from the start. This goes...

www.neogaf.com

After 24 years of 3D Sonic, do you think there is a definitive 3D Sonic game? Or have they always been junk?

(Not including Sonic 3D Blast because it's not actually a full 3D game, 2.5D counts if there are polygons throughout the game) In 1997 Sonic R was the first complete fully 3D Sonic title, and ever since then we got games like the Sonic Adventure games, Sonic Riders, Sonic Heroes, Shadow, 2006...

www.neogaf.com

And that's not even acknowledging how you completely derailed the Saturn 3D games thread:

Most impressive 3D-Games for the Sega Saturn

Kind of curious what emulator does everyone prefer? Trying to get VF Remix up and running in MedGUi and it doesn’t seem to recognize my HRAP Pro for Xbox One Beetle core in RetroArch, that's Mednafen too but with the nice (after you get used to it, since it's the same for all emulator cores...

www.neogaf.com

Please show us on the doll where Sega hurt you so bad that you are on this crusade in 2021.

We could find him a girlfriend...