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[Heisenberg007]

Is it possible the game was rebooted recently? No way it should be "early in development" at this stage with a studio roped in as co-developer (this is no simple outsourcing).

Because I remember Phil Spencer said YEARS AGO he has played Perfect Dark. Hell, even Drew's daughter was playing Perfect Dark in her home, and even that was a year or so ago.

 

[Black_Stride]

LOOOL, super AAAA studio needs help.

That's a pretty underwhelming announcement. I though the initiative was supposed to be the big AAAA Microsoft studio. So why are they partnering with crystal dynamics of all people? Lmao

At least they took the initiative to admit they were fucked all alone.

Is this the same as outsourcing? Or are they co-developing? What's the difference and why announce it like this if it was just some outsourcing?

Phil Spender does it all alone.

You guys need as much help as the Initiative you are a shitting on.

How often does this happen?

Also still in early development?

Literally with every AAA game you have to outsource and/or co-develop.
Making a AAA game today alone is impossible.
A studio would need to be so big and multilayered it might as well break itself up into multiple separate studios.

 

[Heisenberg007]

They have like 4x as many employees so I would hope not

4x as many employees and 3x more projects.

It's not like those 4x employee force is working on a single project.

 

[Perrott]

Is it possible the game was rebooted recently? No way it should be "early in development" at this stage with a studio roped in as co-developer (this is no simple outsourcing).

Because I remember Phil Spencer said YEARS AGO he has played Perfect Dark. Hell, even Drew's daughter was playing Perfect Dark in her home, and even that was a year or so ago.

Playable prototypes of a game are there nearly from the very beginning, so of course Phil and the development team have played something. Project Dylan was playable at Bioware for YEARS before it even resembled the game that it would end up becoming in the end (Anthem), so having a game in playable state is not really telling of how far along production is.

 

[I'm nobody]

23 studios n needs 3rd party help ok
Silly

 

[R3claimer117]

23 studios n needs 3rd party help ok
Silly

So take those studios off their games they're working on ? What kind of logic do you guys use ?

 

[slade]

MS took that 'let the studios do whatever they want,' adage too seriously. At a certain point, if they are not producing, it's time to take out the stick.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

This wouldn't be a MS first party game without a shit show development cycle.

 

[Black_Stride]

23 studios n needs 3rd party help ok
Silly

Ubisoft has 40 some studios and still outsources work to 3rd parties

EA has like 30 studios and they outsource work to third parties

Sony has 18 odd studios and they still outsource with third party partners.



If you dont know how AAA game development works shut the fuck up.

 

[reksveks]

I quite like the tomb raider reboot so okay with this move. I do think Microsoft needs to scale up some of their studios, still don't get how mojang is one of the biggest studios but at least they are now working on multiple games.

 

[Riky]

Makes sense to bring in a studio who have rebooted a huge franchise with great results before. Looks like Microsoft is prepared to spend a lot of money to get this right and give the franchise the game it deserves.

 

[Angel of BOOM!]

The question is, are CD coming in as a typical outsourcing house, working on art and animation (typical area that is outsourced) or are they more integrated into the team than that.

If they're more integrated that brings a whole set of challenges unless they're coming in to work on a specific aspect of the game (e.g. Multiplayer mode if that can easily be separated).

Just throwing an entire established code and design team from CD into the mix is not as straight forward as outsourcing asset creation. They'll have their own way of working, likely they own code base and tools they're accustomed to (even if they're using something like Unreal). It's not like you just add a few hundred people to a team and - voila - they're all working efficiently.

If I were a betting man, I'd assume that CD were doing the bulk of the game (maybe even driving the development itself) and The Initiative were giving overarching design direction. But then, I'm not a betting man so...

 

[Black_Stride]

Makes sense to bring in a studio who have rebooted a huge franchise with great results before. Looks like Microsoft is prepared to spend a lot of money to get this right and give the franchise the game it deserves.

Also makes sense to get a bunch of people who have already worked with members of The Initiative before.
A good number of TI members are ex-Crystal Dynamics, so collaborating shouldnt be too hard or alien to them.

 

[Black_Stride]

The question is, are CD coming in as a typical outsourcing house, working on art and animation (typical area that is outsourced) or are they more integrated into the team than that.

If they're more integrated that brings a whole set of challenges unless they're coming in to work on a specific aspect of the game (e.g. Multiplayer mode if that can easily be separated).

Just throwing an entire established code and design team from CD into the mix is not as straight forward as outsourcing asset creation. They'll have their own way of working, likely they own code base and tools they're accustomed to (even if they're using something like Unreal). It's not like you just add a few hundred people to a team and - voila - they're all working efficiently.

If I were a betting man, I'd assume that CD were doing the bulk of the game (maybe even driving the development itself) and The Initiative were giving overarching design direction. But then, I'm not a betting man so...

A good number of The Initiative are ex-Crystal Dynamic.
The Initiative is still leading the project, co-developing isnt an alien idea.
Darrell is likely just bringing in the most talented members he remembers from Crystal Dynamic to help get this project where he wants it.

P.S Darrell Gallagher was the head of Crystal Dynamic before becoming the head of The Initiative

 

[Silent Viper]

Cool. Probably is a good fit.

Wonder if this is because Microsoft needs skilled talent to work on the game so they're partnering aka outsourcing with crystal dynamics. Meaning they can't hire fast enough

Initiative Studio head is former head of CD, Darell Galegar. So he must have approached them for certain things as game must be too big or ambitious.

 

[elliot5]

Initiative Studio head is former head of CD, Darell Galegar. So he must have approached them for certain things as game must be too big or ambitious.

Maybe it's his long con of poaching more from CD. Lol

 

[sinnergy]

Sounds like it's gonna be a great Single Player Story driven experience.

 

[Jigsaah]

Why does no one listen to me? I have said more then a few times that I'm wary of Microsoft buying and making all these studios because I think they will be spreading themselves too thin.

Here is proof. They are already outsourcing. They just started development. Why are they announcing this?

Buying Studios: Is Microsoft spreading themselves too thin? Is this for the hardcore fans?

Hey guys. I been considering this for some time. At E3 2018, I was beyond excited to see the studio acquisitions Microsoft picked up. Especially for Playground Games and Ninja Theory. More recently we have inXile and Obsidian Studios join the bunch. The Initiative is still an unknown at this...

www.neogaf.com

Said this shit 3 years ago

 

[skit_data]

I think it was unnecessary to announce this last year. It sounds like its pretty far off, 2025-2026?

 

[Darlingcognito]

No big deal, it would've taken them ten years to make it at the rate they were going.

 

[cHaOs667]

Maybe CD was in financial trouble, the Initiative was unable to hire enough staff and this is just a test balloon if CD could fit, as a whole, within Microsoft Studios or The Initiative.

Actually, I've seen this happening a couple of times in "normal" software development companies.

 

[Black_Stride]

Why does no one listen to me? I have said more then a few times that I'm wary of Microsoft buying and making all these studios because I think they will be spreading themselves too thin.

Here is proof. They are already outsourcing. They just started development. Why are they announcing this?

Buying Studios: Is Microsoft spreading themselves too thin? Is this for the hardcore fans?

Hey guys. I been considering this for some time. At E3 2018, I was beyond excited to see the studio acquisitions Microsoft picked up. Especially for Playground Games and Ninja Theory. More recently we have inXile and Obsidian Studios join the bunch. The Initiative is still an unknown at this...

www.neogaf.com

Said this shit 3 years ago

Why does nobody listen to you?
Because, you are talking outta ya ass and no one likes the taste of shit.


They are outsourcing so they are spreading themselves too thin.

Tell me a AAA studio that doesnt outsource and/or co-develop with other studios.
Very few if any AAA games since the X360/PS3 have been solo development ventures.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Why does nobody listen to you?
Because, you are talking outta ya ass and no one likes the taste of shit.


They are outsourcing so they are spreading themselves too thin.

Tell me a AAA studio that doesnt outsource and/or co-develop with other studios.
Very few if any AAA games since the X360/PS3 have been solo development ventures.

Studios outsource. They rarely co-develop.

 

[Black_Stride]

Studios outsource. They rarely co-develop.

Elaborate when a collaboration reaches co-development status.
Define rarely?

 

[DenchDeckard]

This seems like bad news to me. Ffs

 

[Banjo64]

Hope it ends up being similar to Tomb Raider 2013. Announcement isn't surprising, The Intiiative still had a surprisingly low number of employees and are still recruiting in large numbers.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Early development? WTF have they been doing at Initiative for past 3 years?

Building a studio? It's not like they started full development of the game in 2018.

 

[Black_Stride]

This seems like bad news to me. Ffs

Because, transparency is a bad thing right?

Look deep in the credits for any of your favorite AAA games youll see a number of other studios in there.

If they arent listed just go to their websites or gameindustry to see what who has worked on, youll be shocked how many studios it actually takes to put a AAA game together.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Is it possible the game was rebooted recently? No way it should be "early in development" at this stage with a studio roped in as co-developer (this is no simple outsourcing).

Because I remember Phil Spencer said YEARS AGO he has played Perfect Dark. Hell, even Drew's daughter was playing Perfect Dark in her home, and even that was a year or so ago.

this, it has to have been rebooted. Either Microsoft announced the project waaaaaaay too early or something is not right and they've rebooted.

 

[reksveks]

It's not a big studio and don't think they have been hiring that quickly

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Is it possible the game was rebooted recently? No way it should be "early in development" at this stage with a studio roped in as co-developer (this is no simple outsourcing).

Because I remember Phil Spencer said YEARS AGO he has played Perfect Dark. Hell, even Drew's daughter was playing Perfect Dark in her home, and even that was a year or so ago.

What are you talking about? The game was officially announced in December 2020.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

23 studios n needs 3rd party help ok
Silly

Naughty Dog needed 14 studios and over 2000 people to make The Last of Us 2. I mean, let's not pretend as if this isn't common practice for the industry. You know how many games start out from a smaller subset of creative leads and senior designers initially and then ultimately goes on to receive serious manpower and support from various outside contractors and established studios? The key difference with The Initiative is they've been more heavily watched and followed from the start. Every new addition, every time they get some talent from Naughty Dog or Santa Monica Studio, whatever.

And what makes you think all those other studios aren't already pre-occupied with their own major projects? In some ways I understand going this route, as it might not be viewed as fair that another team that had a whole other vision for what they wanted to make, end up working on The Initiative's vision for a Perfect Dark reboot.

They already have a prototype because it's been played by Phil, by one of their previous lead designers who moved back over to Insomniac, likely to work on Wolverine no doubt. The goal is to bring that package together into something more complete and awesome that can be shown to the public and then eventually released to very positive reception. Time will tell, but I'm a whole lot more excited now in the direction of this game because it has a studio that's proven on it. A studio that is very, VERY good with system's based gameplay mechanics, immersive set-pieces, stealth elements, solid character progression, etc. You name it, Crystal Dynamics has done it in one form or another at a very high level with the Tomb Raider titles.

 

[Concern]

Don't care how they do it. I'll wait for some actual gameplay to form an opinion.

Of course this thread is contaminated with the same trolls as usual. Faust This just gonna be a free for all?

 

[Griffon]

Looks like a clusterfuck.

I'm a massive Perfect Dark fan, but this aint looking good. Looks like they hired people who had no clue what to do with the license.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

What are you talking about? The game was officially announced in December 2020.

This also. People are acting as if this game was announced 4 years ago or something.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Of course this thread is contaminated with the same trolls as usual. Faust This just gonna be a free for all?

Either I'm crazy or this thread is under some kind of mass psychosis. Everyone saying Microsoft announced this game years ago and it should be super far along when it literally happened 9 months ago.

 

[Gameplaylover]

It's not a big studio and don't think they have been hiring that quickly

Did you mean Firesprite?

 

[Coolwhhip]

Looks like a clusterfuck.

I'm a massive Perfect Dark fan, but this aint looking good. Looks like they hired people who had no clue what to do with the license.

it will probably only be perfect dark in name.

 

[reksveks]

Did you mean Firesprite?

Yes, I did. I will update that in my sheet.

 

[Gameplaylover]

it will probably only be perfect dark in name.

That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. 2018 lastofusified GOW is no longer GOW to me, but many seem to love it.

 

[sol_bad]

So basically another whole console cycle until MS get some good quality AAA games to market. Only been waiting 3 generations, what's one more.
Seriously, this is poor form, they spend all this money on studios and still can't make their games on their own.

People defending this by saying all studios outsource, yeah, this is true but they generally outsource to smaller companies who deal with smaller projects. It's not often that one supposed AAA developer will outsource major projects to another AAA developer. And they only have 71 employees? Why were they tasked with an AAA Perfect Dark than?

I still don't understand wtf MS are doing.

 

[Chukhopops]

So that's how it's going to be until February next year I guess? A bunch of starved trolls and time travelers shitting on everything?

So basically another whole console cycle until MS get some good quality AAA games to market. Only been waiting 3 generations, what's one more.
Seriously, this is poor form, they spend all this money on studios and still can't make their games on their own.

People defending this by saying all studios outsource, yeah, this is true but they generally outsource to smaller companies who deal with smaller projects. It's not often that one supposed AAA developer will outsource major projects to another AAA developer. And they only have 71 employees? Why were they tasked with an AAA Perfect Dark than?

I still don't understand wtf MS are doing.

I can't tell who is serious and who is making parody posts at this point.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Elaborate when a collaboration reaches co-development status.
Define rarely?

Co-development as in announcing these projects on social media b/w first-party and third-party AAA studios. This is not outsourcing. In their own words, they are "partnering".

 

[Coolwhhip]

That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. 2018 lastofusified GOW is no longer GOW to me, but many seem to love it.

Don't give them ideas, they might add an annoying little punk.

 

[MonarchJT]

Is this the same as outsourcing? Or are they co-developing? What's the difference and why announce it like this if it was just some outsourcing?

probably because you didn't get the word collaborating......the initiative is a very VERy small studio anyone knew they would need to integrate people for the project ... good thing they took an already established studio like CD instead of taking several people who had to learn to collaborate (not knowing each other)

 

[GymWolf]

Just keep the tomb raider team away from anything related to story telling and chara.

 

[Warablo]

Really wanted this to be third person spy stealth game. Especially since Splinter Cell is dead.

 

[Jigsaah]

Why does nobody listen to you?
Because, you are talking outta ya ass and no one likes the taste of shit.


They are outsourcing so they are spreading themselves too thin.

Tell me a AAA studio that doesnt outsource and/or co-develop with other studios.
Very few if any AAA games since the X360/PS3 have been solo development ventures.

Tell me how many of those studios announce the fact that they are outsourcing?

Fact of the matter is they can't do it alone and it's becoming a apparent that the supposed AAAA game the Initiative was going to make now needs the help from a studio who barely makes AAA games.

The writings are on the wall. Microsoft needs to chill out and properly cultivate the studios they have. They always just throw money at problems. They did it with buying Mixer, then buying Shroud and Ninja. They do this shit all the time instead of doing what is required to be able compete at the level Sony does. That's why I prefer the way Sony is growing. Organically. Not buying studios on the Brink of closing down. But working with studios who have proven they can stand on their own two feet and joining Sony is simply a bonus.

Maybe I am talking out of my ass, but I'm telling you something doesn't feel right about this.

 

[killatopak]

Surprised CD had enough people to help them when they struggled on Avengers and presumably developing Guardians at the same time.

How many teams are there at CD?

 

[Negotiator101]

Who is in charge of product management at Xbox?

What are you on about? What is the purpose for your question?