Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Real Gun

DeepEnigma said:
He seemingly is refusing to take responsibility for proper gun safety. The prop guy and site GM will take the fall for him quite literally not following firearm safety 101.
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are you saying the prop team is not responsible?

Normally a gun is pointed at the cameraman, so how does that fit your argument?
 
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Thaedolus said:
I don't need a lecture on firearm safety in normal circumstances, what I'm saying is that being on a set and using blanks probably involves a lot of other protocols neither one of us is familiar with, and the actor could have done everything right and still had this happen. He could've never pointed the gun at anyone at any time, aimed right where he was supposed to and still had a ricochet kill the lady. Whether or not he's supposed to check if the cartridges are live or not I'm not sure, I can imagine scenarios where the experts on set don't want the actor messing with the weapon once it's been handed to them.
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That's not what apparently happened though.

You don't ever point a gun, of any type, at anyone, ever, unless you are ok with killing that person. If he really did "jokingly" point the gun at both of them and pulled the trigger, that is pretty bad.
 
Holy shit people here jumping to conclusion faster than a bullet and acting like they are Judge Dredd. I pity you for real.
 
Dr Bass said:
That's not what apparently happened though.

You don't ever point a gun, of any type, at anyone, ever, unless you are ok with killing that person. If he really did "jokingly" point the gun at both of them and pulled the trigger, that is pretty bad.
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No shit, I've been through multiple firearm safety courses and have a concealed carry. The version of events you're relaying was fake. There's no confirmation he was pointing the gun at anyone.
 
///PATRIOT said:
are you saying the prop team is not responsible?
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Responsibility can fall on more than one party of course

The prop team would be responsible for improperly loading a gun.

Baldwin would be responsible for pointing a gun at people and pulling a trigger.

This seems really straightforward to me.
 
Dr Bass said:
Responsibility can fall on more than one party of course

The prop team would be responsible for improperly loading a gun.

Baldwin would be responsible for pointing a gun at people and pulling a trigger.

This seems really straightforward to me.
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The Big Lebowski Thank You GIF
 
Dr Bass said:
Responsibility can fall on more than one party of course

The prop team would be responsible for improperly loading a gun.

Baldwin would be responsible for pointing a gun at people and pulling a trigger.

This seems really straightforward to me.
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Actors in a set point their guns at other actors or the cameranman. how does that fit in your argument?
 
DeepEnigma said:
alec-baldwin-kill-someone-tweet13-1.png


nypost.com

Alec Baldwin haunted over old tweet wondering ‘how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone’

Baldwin tweeted on Sept. 23, 2017, about Huntington Beach police officer Eric Esparza being caught on video shooting dead Dillan Tabares, who’d punched him and reached for his gun.
nypost.com nypost.com
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This is why social media, and twitter in particular, are a scourge on society and should be excised like the metastatic tumor it is. Karma is an absolute BITCH.

Folks may say "but that police officer was supposed to be trained for this and should know better!"....yah, well, Baldwin is an experienced actor with DECADES of on-set activity and he "should have known better" as well.

Maybe he did nothing wrong. I expect a thorough investigation to tell us this, not twitter.
 
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Thaedolus said:
No shit, I've been through multiple firearm safety courses and have a concealed carry. The version of events you're relaying was fake. There's no confirmation he was pointing the gun at anyone.
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I see. Well we will see. If he did point the gun at anyone, that would obviously be his fault. If he didn't that would be one hell of an accident.
 
///PATRIOT said:
Actors in a set point their guns at other actors or the cameranman. how does that fit in your argument?
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They usually do not. They point them off on an angle, especially ever since Brandon Lee and tighter restrictions went down. They use camera angles and cuts to make it look like it's pointed directly at someone. I know several people who work the sets and star in TWD. They always point off angle, so much so, that I pick up on it watching the show and seeing how the barrel would no way hit the target when you really stare at it.
 
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///PATRIOT said:
Actors in a set point their guns at other actors or the cameranman. how does that fit in your argument?
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I'm not really making an argument at all. Just some basic observations. I honestly don't know how things go down on a typical movie set. Do they actually point weapons at each other? Or is it set up to just look like that (not actually pointing at someone, but it looks like they are)? Do they tend to use real guns with blanks, or are there special prop guns that have no capacity to fire but look real, etc? I don't know.

I do find it interesting that so many people are emotionally leaping to the defense of this person though.
 
DeepEnigma said:
No they do not. They point them off on an angle, especially ever since Brandon Lee and tighter restrictions went down. They use camera angles to make it look like it's pointed directly at someone. I know several people who work the sets and star in TWD. They always point off angle, so much so, that I pick up on it watching the show and seeing how the barrel would no way hit the target when you really stare at it.
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Point taken.
 
Dr Bass said:
I'm not really making an argument at all. Just some basic observations. I honestly don't know how things go down on a typical movie set. Do they actually point weapons at each other? Or is it set up to just look like that (not actually pointing at someone, but it looks like they are)? Do they tend to use real guns with blanks, or are there special prop guns that have no capacity to fire but look real, etc? I don't know.

I do find it interesting that so many people are emotionally leaping to the defense of this person though.
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Usually they are specially designed prop guns for the heavy firefight scenes (like John Wick) some have it where a live cartridge would not go into battery and can also have modified firing pins incapable of setting off a live round. Use very low grain squib rounds and post process all the punch. So this situation is extremely odd.
 
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MacReady13 said:
Fuck off. You know that was a tragic accident.
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Man, don't start going off on this. The director did a bunch of wrong things in that situation. He broke several rules to try and get that shot and it resulted in people, including two small kids, dying. It's the kind of "tragic accident" that happens when you're being a fool and taking risks.
 
Dr Bass said:
Man, don't start going off on this. The director did a bunch of wrong things in that situation. He broke several rules to try and get that shot and it resulted in people, including two small kids, dying. It's the kind of "tragic accident" that happens when you're being a fool and taking risks.
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Yup. It was 100% his fault. He was having the helicopter flying too low while calling for pyro.
 
Dr Bass said:
Man, don't start going off on this. The director did a bunch of wrong things in that situation. He broke several rules to try and get that shot and it resulted in people, including two small kids, dying. It's the kind of "tragic accident" that happens when you're being a fool and taking risks.
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You do realize the helicopter landed only a few feet from him, yeah? He broke child labor rules. For that he should've been charged but for their deaths, no fucking way. The fact he yelled "lower, lower" means fuck all when the special effects guy detonated everything wrong and he got no convictions whatsoever.
 
www.yahoo.com

How Do Prop Guns Work? Fight Expert Weighs in After 'Shocking' Shooting on Alec Baldwin Movie Set

Alec Baldwin accidentally misfired a prop gun on a movie set Thursday, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

"You want to have as many things stacked in your favor as possible to avoid anything going wrong, so first and foremost, the number one rule is basically treat everything like it could potentially be loaded and it could potentially harm someone," he says. "We never want to have anyone pull the trigger on a prop firearm if anybody's in the line of fire — you should never be pointing it directly at another person, and if you're pointing it at the camera, then there should be no operators behind the camera."
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Firearm safety 101
"We would do a test where we would show all people involved — the camera people, the director, performers, anybody who's going to be on set — we'll say 'This is how this prop operates, this is what makes it safe,'" he explains.

"I will load the blanks in front of the person pulling the trigger," he adds. "I would not recommend a performer ever even touch a prop that you haven't seen loaded directly in front of you."
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Checking before firing by the person firing is common practice. Actor or not.
Another source in the filmmaking industry similarly tells PEOPLE that checking prop firearms before they are fired is a common practice.

"Every time I'm on set with a gun, everyone is offered a chance to look at and hold the gun, see the empty chamber etc," the insider says. "Anyone on the crew is given an opportunity to feel safe about it and the props armorer always shows it. I've done these meetings sometimes multiple times a day even."
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You NEVER assume.
 
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MacReady13 said:
You do realize the helicopter landed only a few feet from him, yeah? He broke child labor rules. For that he should've been charged but for their deaths, no fucking way. The fact he yelled "lower, lower" means fuck all when the special effects guy detonated everything wrong and he got no convictions whatsoever.
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What is your point here? Morrow was decapitated by the blades. And the helicopter didn't "land", it spun out of control and crashed. So breaking child labor laws, safety rules for what they were doing means the director, the person in charge telling everyone what to do, "means fuck all"?

Ok dude. Your first name isn't "Max" is it?
 
Dr Bass said:
What is your point here? Morrow was decapitated by the blades. And the helicopter didn't "land", it spun out of control and crashed. So breaking child labor laws, safety rules for what they were doing means the director, the person in charge telling everyone what to do, "means fuck all"?

Ok dude. Your first name isn't "Max" is it?
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Accidents can't happen on set? I mean ffs, we are in a thread where the cinematographer was killed and the director, the person in charge, is injured as well! Is that his fault too? John Landis may have been brazen and did things that he wouldn't do again but killing 3 people is his fault? Fuck me mate seriously, some people have no idea. If he had ANY idea the helicopter would kill 3 people and in the process just miss killing him by mere feet, do you really think he'd have been standing where he was? Saddest thing is, the way the flames fucked up the helicopter was a freak incident that, in earlier shots never happened.

And no, I'm not Max Landis. But fuck me, the guy can stand up for his dad, yeah?
 
DeepEnigma said:
www.yahoo.com

How Do Prop Guns Work? Fight Expert Weighs in After 'Shocking' Shooting on Alec Baldwin Movie Set

Alec Baldwin accidentally misfired a prop gun on a movie set Thursday, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com


Firearm safety 101


Checking before firing by the person firing is common practice. Actor or not.

You NEVER assume.
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There's something wrong with prop guns if it can actually shoot out projectiles that can kill.

You'd think all they would do is shoot out some weak ass smokey fumes and thats it. But it seems they're designed so that they can have realistic six shooter chambers with fake cartridge cases too.

I guess thats the way they replicate the fumes.

There's got to be a way to make it look like it's a gun being shot, but not have anything accidentally lethal coming out of it
 
Dr Bass said:
That's not what apparently happened though.

You don't ever point a gun, of any type, at anyone, ever, unless you are ok with killing that person. If he really did "jokingly" point the gun at both of them and pulled the trigger, that is pretty bad.
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Some bad blood on the set here then.
vNDxqAh.jpg
 
Wtf at era for banning people who question what happend. I dont see whats wrong with being curious what went wrong here.
 
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Look at all these people pointing prop weapons at other people!!! How many counts of attempted murder can you count in this video?
 
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SantaC said:
Lol at era for banning people who question what happend. I dont see whats wrong with being curious what went wrong here.
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lol wut? what are they complaining about here? I forget though they hate when people actually call for investigations and evidence.
 
Irobot82 said:
Two things.

1. That Malice tweet is fire.

2. I can't imagine how Alec feels. That's a hard pain to push through knowing you murdered people on accident. That's a rough one.
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Funny or not, it's a pretty shitty thing to do right after someone died and the man responsible is riddled with guilt. But hey, let's make fun of him for internet points
 
Jaysen said:
Immediately after being questioned by cops. Had to be hard for all, but especially him being the shooter.

211022020425-01-alec-baldwin-1021-exlarge-169.jpg
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I find disgusting the person who sneaked up behind him, to this picture as this was a reality show.

But imaging the nightmare for him and the family, jesus chirst
 
///PATRIOT said:
I find disgusting the person who sneaked up behind him, to this picture as this was a reality show.

But imaging the nightmare for him and the family, jesus chirst
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Part of me feels like this was a planned event. Not that he might not be feeling terrible and is grief isn't real, but that there was a certain level of orchestration to allow him to be viewed in a particular way.

But that's just the cynic in me.
 
DeepEnigma said:
Explain.
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You have no idea what was shot from the gun. Could have been a piece of a previous casing that no actor handling the gun would have ever been able to detect by simply looking at it. The responsibility for making sure the chamber is completely clear are the munitions tech crew.The problem with this story is Alec's political history is making people act like complete dumbshits.
 
Jaysen said:
You have no idea what was shot from the gun. Could have been a piece of a previous casing that no actor handling the gun would have ever been able to detect by simply looking at it. The responsibility for making sure the chamber is completely clear are the munitions tech crew.The problem with this story is Alec's political history is making people act like complete dumbshits.
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How many more people have to die in film for people to "just trust the crewmen". This should have been double, tripled checked by everyone involved with the operation of a firearm before ever pulling the trigger.
 
Wildebeest said:
Not sure what this sarcasm is about. The man in your clip very clearly says that in terms of safety, you always treat theatrical guns as a real firearm.
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Yet these actors and actresses, after being handed a prop gun, are asked to point the prop at other actors/actresses/stuntman/camera operator and pull the trigger while being filmed. What about this video I posted? Are all these people negligent, or attempted murderers, for trusting the professional in charge that the gun handed to them is a prop weapon that won't fire and cause harm?

 
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Halo is Dead said:
How many more people have to die in film for people to "just trust the crewmen". This should have been double, tripled checked by everyone involved with the operation of a firearm before ever pulling the trigger.
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Of course it should have, and the investigation will focus on where the breakdown occurred. Movies dont need these prop bullets anymore though. Just add that shit in post production. If the cost is too high, maybe you shouldn't have made the movie to begin with.
 
Halo is Dead said:
How about you explain to me why it made his tweet any less tasteless
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We live in an age where if someone is seen as political opposition or otherwise not to your liking, then anything goes. A lot of people seem to feel great about dunking/feeling schadenfreude over a tragic death right now. It's our gross reality.
 
Jaysen said:
You have no idea what was shot from the gun. Could have been a piece of a previous casing that no actor handling the gun would have ever been able to detect by simply looking at it. The responsibility for making sure the chamber is completely clear are the munitions tech crew.The problem with this story is Alec's political history is making people act like complete dumbshits.
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I mentioned nothing about "political history," and the same could be said for those absolving the last man to hold a gun who should have followed proper firearm safety pointed out by not only myself, but movie industry experts in what their usual protocols are in post #202

My whole argument, is that he is the last to hold the gun, he is responsible for following firearm safety 101. The same way any normie outside of hOlLyWoOd would be held accountable for.

That is LITERAL firearm safety 101. The basis of my argument is that very foundation, regardless of who the person is.
 
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