Jaysen
Banned
How do you know he didn’t? On a movie like John Wick, do you think it’s the job of all the extras and actors to personally check every gun and the blanks loaded within them? Because that’s straight up stupid.
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Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Real Gun
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Clearly he didn't or he would have not pointed it directly at the person, nor should the people have been behind camera in the post I referenced as outlined by these very people in Hollywood.
I also check all firearms handed to me to see if they are loaded while pointing them in a safe direction. That is firearm safety 101.
Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Prop Gun
He seemingly is refusing to take responsibility for proper gun safety. The prop guy and site GM will take the fall for him quite literally not following firearm safety 101. are you saying the prop team is not responsible? Normally a gun is pointed at the cameraman, so how does that fit your...
Their number one rule, which is the number one rule in all firearm safety.
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ABSOLUTELY YES!! If they are not competent to verify that the weapon handed to them is or is not a danger to themselves or others then they have no business being on set. Do you think they just hand out knives, swords, axes, bows and arrows, guns, or whatever to all the extras and say "go wild boys!!". NFW. All of those people, even if they are the background, are supposed to be professionals.
If they KNOW the gun is gonna go bang then YES, the actor should also verify for themselves after being trained how to do so, and then conduct themselves as safely as possible. You make it sound like this was the first time Alec has ever been around a gun on set or something.
This MIGHT have been a tragic accident with no responsibility on Alec, but since he was the one to pull the trigger it is reasonable to wonder what he did to the SECOND on that set that day (was he drinking before the shot, etc). That is the standard the rest of us would have been held to, he doesn't get an automatic pass just because someone else handed him the gun before he played make-believe.
Jaysen
Banned
Moronic. You pay an experienced munitions team for a reason. Putting the final fucking responsibility into the hands of actors is one of the dumbest suggestions I’ve ever heard.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And people throwing around their projection of "politically motivated" can bite the same words by 100% absolving him and trying to blame the props armorer 100%.
My only argument which is as true as the test of time, the last person to handle a firearm according to firearm safety 101, is responsible to handle it safely and responsibly. You never 100% rely on others prior.
This post is the dumbest thing I ever heard. It is literally FIREARM SAFETY 101. Even those that work in Hollywood in post #202 say that.
Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Prop Gun
He seemingly is refusing to take responsibility for proper gun safety. The prop guy and site GM will take the fall for him quite literally not following firearm safety 101. are you saying the prop team is not responsible? Normally a gun is pointed at the cameraman, so how does that fit your...
Firearm safety rules do not stop because of hurr durr special actor people.
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Pegasus Actual
Gold Member
Alec Baldwin will bounce back fine, he's rich so no chance any serious charges will stick no matter what he actually did, and it's not like he misgendered someone so he can keep working without skipping a beat.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
The daggers used when swinging around are basically soft toys. They only use the nice swords and what not for still shots or close up.
You should check out the LotR extended edition docs. They shed a ton of insight into prop making and general production. It's basically a film making class
Wildebeest
Member
These videos are not safety training videos. For example, In the first video you posted, I do not take the CGI terminators firing at the screen as evidence that the cameraman had a blank firing gun pointed at him and was fine with it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Damn, hopefully there was nothing nefarious by a jaded worker. Not that it changes the tragic outcome.
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Dr Bass
Member
This whole thread is so weird to me. Not only the hoops people are trying to jump through to say Baldwin had no culpability, but the vitriol attached to it.And people throwing around their projection of "politically motivated" can bite the same words by 100% absolving him and trying to blame the props armorer 100%.
My only argument which is as true as the test of time, the last person to handle a firearm according to firearm safety 101, is responsible to handle it safely and responsibly. You never 100% rely on others prior.
This post is the dumbest thing I ever heard. It is literally FIREARM SAFETY 101. Even those that work in Hollywood in post #202 say that.
Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Prop Gun
He seemingly is refusing to take responsibility for proper gun safety. The prop guy and site GM will take the fall for him quite literally not following firearm safety 101. are you saying the prop team is not responsible? Normally a gun is pointed at the cameraman, so how does that fit your...www.neogaf.com
Firearm safety roles do not stop because of hurr durr special actor people.
I'm sitting here just thinking "Oh yeah, if he pointed a gun at anyone and pulled a trigger, he clearly has some responsibility." Gun loaded with blanks or not. That's the point. Accidents happen and as you've been saying its one of the first tings they teach you about gun safety. You never point a loaded gun at anyone (unless of course you want to potentially kill that person). You just don't. It just is what it is. Like if you crash your car, and you don't wear a seatbelt, well that is the persons fault who didn't fasten their seatbelt.
No emotion involved.
But the people defending this are coming across a bit unhinged. I don't get it.
Or do I ...
I hope I never work with you in any professional capacity then and I hope you have no authority to enact safety procedures for others.
"I was told it was safe but took no action to verify it was" is the hallmark of a failing safety system.
And I'm sure every background actor in LOTR was A. given a thorough shake down to ENSURE they had no dangerous items on their person before they walked on set and B. had to PERSONALLY verify that their prop weapon was in fact safe for what they had to do on set. They don't just hand out foam swords to day extras and tell them to bash each other on the head (at least a properly budgeted safe production doesn't).
Lognor
Banned
I'm not a gun owner so that's not obvious to me. Baldwin might not be a gun owner either so not sure he would know that.
delirium trigger
Member
Damn, I guess Hollywood is anti-union when it's there's.
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Jaysen
Banned
If only there was a professional staff of experts maintaining the weapons…
daveonezero
Banned
Exactly why it is even mor important to know. Whether it is a nerf gun, pellets, air soft etc. It doesn’t matter.
If you ever encounter a gun treat it as a device that destroys anything it is pointed at. For the exact purpose to avoid this threads topic of discussion. People will die.
There are 4 rules of GUN safety (all guns. All firearms. All types of propellant)
The 4 universal rules of gun safety are:
- Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.
- Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.
- Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Which still teach you firearm safety 101, because well, it's their job that they're hired to do. Post #202 outlines this.
Either way, if the tweets are true that were recently posted, those misfires and still being used without thoroughly checking is a big NO NO and falls on everyone involved. Especially the producer and shooter, Alec.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Apparently the projectile passed through her and hit the director in the shoulder.
///PATRIOT
Banned
Must have been a high caliber, since small calibers don't pass through a skull.
Let me put up a hypothetical scenario.
You are going on a self guided tour of the Australian outback with your life partner and selected offspring that you care about.
The tour operator, as she hands you the keys, says "I've topped off your petrol, filled the emergency Jerry cans, loaded your water, and replaced the batteries in your sat phone and GPS, off you go!"
Now, if you get out into the middle of the badlands and break an axle and it turns out the water cans are empty and the sat phone is dead so now your family is facing immenent death, how much is it your fault that you didn't "trust but verify" the status of the car before you left? How much solace is your partner gonna give you because it was that damned tour guides fault and she botched the job?
Little Mac
Gold Member
Following your rules, everyone in this video, including Keanu Reeves, is what? Criminally negligent? Homocidal?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If it's a colt style revolver, chances are that it's a high caliber in a 44-40 or 45. Even more modern chambers for .38 special and .357 would do that as well.
daveonezero
Banned
There are some rare exceptions. Also acting or simmunitions are a thing. They are “willing to destroy” whatever they point the gun at.
Look up the definition for negligence. It can be avoided.
that is why the Baldwin incident is negligent and not an accident.
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daveonezero
Banned
Someone forgot to check the thing for projectiles. That is negligence.
Keanu isn't actually in that video you know.
And it shows stuntmen in training and they are using replica weapons for educational purposes on tactics and acting, they are NOT filming an actual movie. I absolutely guarantee that before the day started there was a full "no ammo!" check of everyone and every weapon replica there was carefully inspected by at least 2 people, and then by the actor using it. Plus if you watch carefully, many of them never actually touch the trigger, even when simulating firing. They maintain as many rules as possible, because the intent of the 4 rules is that you can violate 1 and still have a very reduced chance of hurting someone. I bet there is an entire block on "how to actually use a live weapon on set" class that we are not seeing where they learn to offset their aim and other tricks to enhance safety.
delirium trigger
Member
Alec Baldwin 'Rust' camera crew walked off before shooting - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
It's more than an "accident". This is serious negligence.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Michael Malice strikes me as the kind of person who masturbates furiously in front of a mirror several times a day.
Azurro
Banned
I don't think the actors have a license to be irresponsible with something that is built to kill, no matter who they paid to check for safety.
The fact that he absolves himself of any responsibility and laments a tragedy when it seems he deliberately pointed a gun at the director and the DP is sickening. That tweet seems more to cover his own ass than anything related to the family of this poor woman.
But well, Hollywood gonna Hollywood.
Please tell me he didn't post the scene of Sean Connery telling him "schome things here don't react well to bullets", that would be too cruel.
Master Of Illusion
Member
It takes brass balls to be a DP.
Captain Toad
Banned
I read through a lot of these responses. It sounds like the stuff you'd hear on other sites. People looking for any possible way to villianize the guy. It looks clearly to be an accident, and one that likely is 99% not Baldwin's fault.
The victim's family has stated as much and were the first to vindicate the man, who, like others in this situation, is probably going through the most difficult situation of his life.
Quit salivating over the chance to pull put pitchforks and try to kick someone when they're down.
The victim's family has stated as much and were the first to vindicate the man, who, like others in this situation, is probably going through the most difficult situation of his life.
Quit salivating over the chance to pull put pitchforks and try to kick someone when they're down.
ManaByte
Gold Member
How about we just stop acting like we know what went down, yeah? The stuff going on in this thread is precisely the kind of stuff thay creates rumours that spread and then establish themselves as accepted facts even though they might be far removed from the trurh.
Have you ever killed anyone by accident? No? Then maybe be a wee bit on the careful side in assuming what the man is going through.
Additionaly, he put the focus on her and her family, not himself.
Keihart
Member
Some blank guns, specially semiautomatic ones, are normal guns adapted to shoot blanks AFAIK.
If it was something like a revolver, it could easily have been a normal gun just with a blank in it that they were using, what i find nonsensical it's what is even doing a live round on a movie set.
Keihart
Member
I think Jhon Wick uses mostly gas guns and rubber guns, most of the mussle flashes on the movie are digital.
Azurro
Banned
I mean, we don't have the official story, it's true that it could have been some freak accident, a bullet ricochetted and killed the poor woman, true, many things could have happened. Fair enough.
However, the reason I don't like his public statement is because it drips of being passed by a lawyer, he's distancing himself of any responsibility and declares himself a victim by lamenting the incident as a terrible "accident". That other video being passed of him concerned with security also screams of his PR team putting out some message. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but given how they have people in Hollywood working 100% on artists reputations and such, it is a reasonable take.
He should have just stayed quiet and let the police investigation happen and the family grieve, instead of bringing himself back into the picture this soon just to lament this "accident" that he in passing distances himself from. That's f'ed up.
Halo is Back
Member
I agree with everything you said but I only critiqued Alec's involvement because I want everyone in the production room to be more responsible and careful when handling a deadly weapon. This shouldn't keep happening and I hope future production crews learn from this tragic mistake.
