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[jason10mm]

Thats involuntary manslaughter. Thats an actual charge. Mostly applied to fist fights that result in death.

The only way to get him for involuntary manslaughter for her death wouldve been if he knew the gun had live rounds and was mucking about trying to be a joker on set and the gun accidently misfired.

Right now, the only person at fault for involuntary manslaughter is the armorer.

So, do you think THE PLAN that day was for the director and cinematographer to stand behind a camera and have Alec sit in a church pew, then turn, draw, point his gun DIRECTLY AT THE CAMERA, then FIRE?

Was the gun supposed to go 'click' (because in the script it was a dud round)? Was it supposed to fire a blank and those 2 were ok being downrange of it? Or did Alec pull the trigger when he was supposed to just draw the revolver and thumb back the hammer? Remember, at one point he tried to claim the gun "just went off" as if it were defective, but I think that got dropped when it was shown the gun was functioning properly.

Seems most likely to me that Alec was supposed to draw the pistol and point it at the camera, probably thumb back the hammer as well. Pretty typical western stuff and the revolver would need prop rounds in the cylinders as they are visible from the front. He very likely was NOT supposed to pull the trigger because then they would need blanks on set and I doubt even this shitshow of a film set would have people downrange of blank firing. If they were doing CG muzzle flashes/smoke then why have real weapons at all? I think Alec did his bit and then pulled the trigger and dropped the hammer, or he tried to ride the hammer down with his thumb, so he could get ready for another take. BUT, he failed to point his weapon in a safe direction and when the hammer dropped or slipped from his thumb, a live round went off and the bullet went straight through Mrs. Hutchens. If he had just pointed it down at the floor before resetting the hammer then likely there would have been a discharge but no one would have been hurt (other than pride and a new set of underwear). Alec failed at basic weapons handling, either on or off set.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Why would this make any difference to prop that wasn't supposed to be lethal under any circumstances in an Actors hands.
Being the producer doesn't change anything.

Exactly, this whole witch hunt to punish someone for a situation like this is mind blogging.
It's what I expect from the victims family sure because a lost like this, accident or not is always met with unreasonable mindset due to emotions.
But this whole mentality that's being displayed here is what's wrong with the world.

I did not follow the situation outside of this thread and a few articles. I do admit that the witch hunt is going too far. The man did not want any of this. For the rest I still think that he did not do the proper verifications but I would probably have done the same mistake in the same situation.

 

[Eiknarf]

People hate him and want to see him punished because of his political stances. That’s not justice and it’s not how the justice system should work. It’s good that the charges were dropped.

People hate him because he has an attitude. A bad one.

I know literally hundreds of people with the complete opposite political stance than me. I love them all.

People hate Alec Baldwin because he’s always acting like an asshole in public. Literally every time I’ve seen him on Access Hollywood, Extra, TMZ, or YouTube, he behaves like an angry child

So imagine what he’s like in private? The guy gives off “asshole” vibes

 

[SlimySnake]

So, do you think THE PLAN that day was for the director and cinematographer to stand behind a camera and have Alec sit in a church pew, then turn, draw, point his gun DIRECTLY AT THE CAMERA, then FIRE?

Was the gun supposed to go 'click' (because in the script it was a dud round)? Was it supposed to fire a blank and those 2 were ok being downrange of it? Or did Alec pull the trigger when he was supposed to just draw the revolver and thumb back the hammer? Remember, at one point he tried to claim the gun "just went off" as if it were defective, but I think that got dropped when it was shown the gun was functioning properly.

Seems most likely to me that Alec was supposed to draw the pistol and point it at the camera, probably thumb back the hammer as well. Pretty typical western stuff and the revolver would need prop rounds in the cylinders as they are visible from the front. He very likely was NOT supposed to pull the trigger because then they would need blanks on set and I doubt even this shitshow of a film set would have people downrange of blank firing. If they were doing CG muzzle flashes/smoke then why have real weapons at all? I think Alec did his bit and then pulled the trigger and dropped the hammer, or he tried to ride the hammer down with his thumb, so he could get ready for another take. BUT, he failed to point his weapon in a safe direction and when the hammer dropped or slipped from his thumb, a live round went off and the bullet went straight through Mrs. Hutchens. If he had just pointed it down at the floor before resetting the hammer then likely there would have been a discharge but no one would have been hurt (other than pride and a new set of underwear). Alec failed at basic weapons handling, either on or off set.

I dont know what the plan was. IIRC, they werent even shooting the scene. it was a rehearsal so they were just playing around with different camera takes. i remember seeing a tiktok or maybe it was a twitter clip of him pointing the gun or something similar at the camera before the shooting. the cinematographer and the director were trying to get all kinds of cool shots that had be right up there with the gun. whats next? do we blame the cinematographer herself for putting herself in that position? they are trying to make a movie here and they are experimenting.

honestly, it doesnt matter if he shot the gun or not. he was under the impression that it was a cold gun because he was told it was a cold gun. thats it. this was nothing but a witch hunt for political reasons. this prosecutor should be fired and disbarred for life.

 

[EviLore]

So imagine what he’s like in private?

Who cares. Turn off TMZ then.

 

[jason10mm]

I dont know what the plan was. IIRC, they werent even shooting the scene. it was a rehearsal so they were just playing around with different camera takes. i remember seeing a tiktok or maybe it was a twitter clip of him pointing the gun or something similar at the camera before the shooting. the cinematographer and the director were trying to get all kinds of cool shots that had be right up there with the gun. whats next? do we blame the cinematographer herself for putting herself in that position? they are trying to make a movie here and they are experimenting.

honestly, it doesnt matter if he shot the gun or not. he was under the impression that it was a cold gun because he was told it was a cold gun. thats it. this was nothing but a witch hunt for political reasons. this prosecutor should be fired and disbarred for life.

They were being unsafe and the producer was letting it happen.

If they were in rehearsal, why use a real gun? Why load the gun with ANYTHING? Why pull the trigger? Why pull the trigger pointing at unprotected people?

This isn't the 1940's. Whatever the specific chain of events led to the shooting, you can walk it right back to Alec pointing the gun at a human and pulling the trigger. It was 100% avoidable and no, "the gun was supposed to be loaded with dummy rounds!" IS NOT the safety part of this equation. Alec was unsafe, he created a culture of risk, and with his YEARS of experience and several gun play heavy roles prior should have known better. His ego and callousness translated to an unsafe set and directly led to a woman being shot.

This whole situation is as if he was driving a car towards the camera (and the crew). There is supposed to be a tow hook to stop the car before it crashes into the camera crew. But the hook wasn't securely fastened, Alec as the driver never bothered to check, and in a 'rehearsal' he drove full speed at the camera crew and without the tow cable to stop him, he plowed right through them.

Now you can say that, as the driver, Alec was innocent of malicious intent. But you can ALSO say "wow, sure seems dangerous to be in front of a speeding car, tow cable or not, maybe we should NEVER be in front of a speeding car, spend some more time practicing with that tow cable, and have some more precautions for this extremely dangerous stunt with the easily anticipated problem of the camera crew getting run over. So yah might say "Hey, how about we NEVER run the car towards the camera when the crew is there, no matter how safe we think it is?" That way cocky Alec can't get sloppy because the SYSTEM is protecting everyone.

 

[Eiknarf]

They were being unsafe and the producer was letting it happen.

If they were in rehearsal, why use a real gun? Why load the gun with ANYTHING? Why pull the trigger? Why pull the trigger pointing at unprotected people?

This isn't the 1940's. Whatever the specific chain of events led to the shooting, you can walk it right back to Alec pointing the gun at a human and pulling the trigger. It was 100% avoidable and no, "the gun was supposed to be loaded with dummy rounds!" IS NOT the safety part of this equation. Alec was unsafe, he created a culture of risk, and with his YEARS of experience and several gun play heavy roles prior should have known better. His ego and callousness translated to an unsafe set and directly led to a woman being shot.

This whole situation is as if he was driving a car towards the camera (and the crew). There is supposed to be a tow hook to stop the car before it crashes into the camera crew. But the hook wasn't securely fastened, Alec as the driver never bothered to check, and in a 'rehearsal' he drove full speed at the camera crew and without the tow cable to stop him, he plowed right through them.

Now you can say that, as the driver, Alec was innocent of malicious intent. But you can ALSO say "wow, sure seems dangerous to be in front of a speeding car, tow cable or not, maybe we should NEVER be in front of a speeding car, spend some more time practicing with that tow cable, and have some more precautions for this extremely dangerous stunt with the easily anticipated problem of the camera crew getting run over. So yah might say "Hey, how about we NEVER run the car towards the camera when the crew is there, no matter how safe we think it is?" That way cocky Alec can't get sloppy because the SYSTEM is protecting everyone.

You can take comfort and rest assured that he’ll be silently suffering for ending her life for the rest of his bad-attitude-lying-wife life.

 

[InterMusketeer]

This whole situation is as if he was driving a car towards the camera (and the crew). There is supposed to be a tow hook to stop the car before it crashes into the camera crew. But the hook wasn't securely fastened, Alec as the driver never bothered to check

I don't see how that's his responsibility as an actor. He could check the hook/mechanism for his own peace of mind, but would he even be qualified to judge the safety of it? He's not an expert.

Like, what if he drove in a stunt car, and its engine caught on fire during a shoot and exploded? Would you say it was his own fault for not checking the vehicle? Or what if he's supposed to jump through a fake window but it was accidentally swapped for a real one? What if chemicals are involved? I feel like you're asking actors to check other people's work when they're not even qualified for that.

Now the studio (which is apparently owned by Baldwin?) could be liable for not taking enough precautions. I don't now if Baldwin as a person could/should be prosecuted for that.

 

[jason10mm]

I don't see how that's his responsibility as an actor. He could check the hook/mechanism for his own peace of mind, but would he even be qualified to judge the safety of it? He's not an expert.

Like, what if he drove in a stunt car, and its engine caught on fire during a shoot and exploded? Would you say it was his own fault for not checking the vehicle? Or what if he's supposed to jump through a fake window but it was accidentally swapped for a real one? What if chemicals are involved? I feel like you're asking actors to check other people's work when they're not even qualified for that.

Now the studio (which is apparently owned by Baldwin?) could be liable for not taking enough precautions. I don't now if Baldwin as a person could/should be prosecuted for that.

But thats NOT what happened. He didn't point his weapon in a safe direction, pull the trigger, and it went off unexpectedly with the bullet hitting a hidden metal plate and ricocheting into someone. THATS an accident.

What he did was take a REAL WEAPON, didn't check the ammunition himself, then proceeded to point it DIRECTLY at a woman and pulled the trigger.

Just walk that sequence of events through your head for a bit and see where he went wrong. Keep the gun empty while they were setting up the camera? Nah. Double check that those rounds were dummies (they are often easily distingushed from live ammo in person) Nah. Keep his finger off the trigger until he was pointing in a safe direction (like a discharge barrel just off camera)? Nah. Nope. He took that ABSOLUTE laziest path and just waved it at a woman and pulled the trigger. Fucking CUB SCOUTS know beter.

Go watch Hunt for Red October or The Shadow. See how much shooting he is doing, with real blanks. He KNOWS what right looks like, he just didn't care.

 

[InterMusketeer]

What he did was take a REAL WEAPON, didn't check the ammunition himself, then proceeded to point it DIRECTLY at a woman and pulled the trigger.

He didn't take the weapon, it was handed to him to be used as a prop for a scene. It's not the actor's responsibility to check the safety of a prop. They hired specialists for that job exactly because of safety concerns. By putting the responsibility of a final check or proper handling on the actor, you essentially absolve the armorer of their responsibility and relevance.

 

[jason10mm]

He didn't take the weapon, it was handed to him to be used as a prop for a scene. It's not the actor's responsibility to check the safety of a prop. They hired specialists for that job exactly because of safety concerns. By putting the responsibility of a final check or proper handling on the actor, you essentially absolve the armorer of their responsibility and relevance.

JFC YES IT IS! Every safe set has the actor doing a final inspection of a LIVE FIREARM. Every take, every time. It's basic common sense and easy to implement.

Summa yall straight ignant on this.

 

[InterMusketeer]

JFC YES IT IS! Every safe set has the actor doing a final inspection of a LIVE FIREARM. Every take, every time. It's basic common sense and easy to implement.

Summa yall straight ignant on this.

“An actor’s job is not to be a firearms or weapons expert. Performers train to perform, and they are not required or expected to be experts on guns or experienced in their use. The industry assigns that responsibility to qualified professionals who oversee their use and handling in every aspect.” And that's how it should be. Only experts can safely judge what weapons can be safely used, as well as when and how. It is bonkers to expect this from actors who are just there to act out a scene.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

By putting the responsibility of a final check or proper handling on the actor, you essentially absolve the armorer of their responsibility and relevance.

More than one person can have responsibility for a thing. Safety systems are more effective when there isn't a single point of failure. Nobody is up in arms about the armorer's conviction whether they think Baldwin should be prosecuted or not. Obviously, her negligence was criminal.

Details of this case have faded from memory a bit and it's kind of moot... but presumably he had some gun safety training as part of this film and/or over the course of his career. It sure doesn't seem like he followed said training, and it also sure seems like if he had, that woman would still be alive.

 

[Eiknarf]

JFC YES IT IS! Every safe set has the actor doing a final inspection of a LIVE FIREARM. Every take, every time. It's basic common sense and easy to implement.

Summa yall straight ignant on this.

That’s all right. Just know he’ll be stuck with that identity hoaxer Hilaria woman as his wife for the rest of his life.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Safety systems are more effective when there isn't a single point of failure.

Well, obviously. But having the least qualified person make the final and most important check adds almost nothing in terms of safety and only allows for more opportunities for something to go wrong. It's completely nonsensical.

Details of this case have faded from memory a bit and it's kind of moot... but presumably he had some gun safety training as part of this film and/or over the course of his career. It sure doesn't seem like he followed said training, and it also sure seems like if he had, that woman would still be alive.

That's easy to say in hindsight.

 

[jason10mm]

Well, obviously. But having the least qualified person make the final and most important check adds almost nothing in terms of safety and only allows for more opportunities for something to go wrong. It's completely nonsensical..

Good grief, is this Stephen Baldeins account?

The operator of the weapon is responsible for it. The difference between an inert "prpp" cartridge, a blank, and a live round ate glaringly obvious in person and YES, a final check IN FRONT OF THE OPERATOR is actually a standard practice. No safety measure is WORSE for having more eyes on it, what kind of industry ate you in that you think that?

Regardless of any ability to check the ammunition, Alec as the operator has SOLE responsibility of where he points it and then he pulls the trigger. He knows DAMN WELL you never point it at a person and pull the trigger. NEVER. It was a dumb and unsafe thing to do on the set of The Crow and it was the same for Rust

 

[Toots]

Alec being convicted would be a huge bald win.
(cause he has such good hair)

 

[InterMusketeer]

a final check IN FRONT OF THE OPERATOR is actually a standard practice.

Now you're changing your position. Should the actor check the gun and ammo himself, or should the expert be expected to do that with the actor present? Which is it?

 

[analog_future]

Alec being convicted would be a huge bald win.
(cause he has such good hair)

 

[jason10mm]

Now you're changing your position. Should the actor check the gun and ammo himself, or should the expert be expected to do that with the actor present? Which is it?

Not a change in position whatsoever. Its called "two person verification" and its pretty much an industry standard for safety procedures across many industries, ESPECIALLY when you have a highly skilled person handing off to a lesser skilled (or less responsibility) person. In this case one of the armorers would show the rounds to the actor, the actor would confirm they believe these are inert rounds, blanks, or (god forbid) live rounds for some reason. The actor sees them being loaded (or loads them himself), they confirm what is supposed to happen, and then the actor has control and responsibility for that weapon whilst it is in their possession and EVERY TIME it is handed off to someone or the actor goes off set, the process is repeated.

Are you denying that if Alec had seen these rounds for himself that a live round wouldn't have gotten through? Is there evidence that the inert rounds were indistinguishable from live ammo or a live round was made up to look like an inert one? Are you denying that if Alec had just pointed his revolver a bit to the left, right, up, or down when he pulled the trigger that Hannah would still be alive?

What industry are you in that these types of safety procedures seem too onerous or foreign to you? Have you EVER been to an event where live ammunition was being used and seen the safety procedures? Hae you EVER been to an event with blank ammunition and seen the procedures to prevent live ammo from being introduced? Have you EVER been to an event where live weapons were present and seen the afety procedures in place?

Every year solider and police shoot a live round in what was supposed to be blank only (or some other sort of training round) training, sometimes with a fatality. Every year some gun show has a live round go off in what were "supposed" to be empty weapons for sale. It is the HEIGHT of hubris and incompetence for Alec to run a show with lax procedures, most of which are 'free', and to wave his handgun around pulling the trigger at people because he knows better, he's an industry vet and has been through this many times. He was in several Mission Impossible films, The Shadow, Red October, The Getaway, SO MANY films with gun handling. He isn't some noob making an indie film. He set the tone and the laxness of the set and directly contributed to it!

 

[Toots]

I mean it's either that or walls of text arguments about Baldwin lack of navy seal training, or how low his ego hangs...

 

[Lord Panda]

Alec being convicted would be a huge bald win.
(cause he has such good hair)

You're hilaria.

Sigh.

 

[Brazen]

All I know is that if I get another chance at reality after this one I'm going hardcore to some whatever celebrity status.
I like the tier of justice money/connections buy, it's just simply better.
Plus, the bonus of having random nobodies defending my every detailed action.
Plus having the benefits of any action used against me being incompetent or some other reason(s) I don't have to account for.
Easy life yeah?

 

[LegendOfKage]

People hate him and want to see him punished because of his political stances. That’s not justice and it’s not how the justice system should work. It’s good that the charges were dropped.

I was on his side, until other actors and people in the industry started coming forward and explaining that the armorer and the actor are both supposed to check the gun before it's used in a scene. I still give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to "I never pulled the trigger," though. I don't think he was lying to others, I think he was lying to himself.

 

[Nobody_Important]

People hate him and want to see him punished because of his political stances. That’s not justice and it’s not how the justice system should work. It’s good that the charges were dropped.

Ding ding ding. There was ignorance to be had by numerous people involved, but there was no malice here to be found. This person was a friend of Baldwin's and someone he had known for years and he killed her through a series of horrible mistakes and missteps. He will have to live with that for the rest of his life. Dragging all of this out or putting him behind bars for however long would accomplish nothing. People can try to treat him like a sociopath if they want, but it is clear there is remorse there. He has suffered and will continue to suffer mentally, emotionally, and financially from this event for the rest of his days.



What needs to happen is a complete overhaul of the entire industry when it comes to weapons on set that involves a STEEP climb for anyone to be confirmed as a armorer for any show or product. Knives, swords, guns, explosives, etc etc. There needs to be a process here that goes much deeper than the one we have.

 

[DeafTourette]

The prosecution had favorable or possibly exculpatory evidence for the defence HIDDEN under a different case file... That's a violation of the Brady Rule: The prosecution suppressed evidence, the evidence suppressed was favorable to the defense, the evidence is material to the proceedings/outcome of the case. This is also the 4th time the prosecution withheld evidence from the defense.

That's NOT a technicality. Corrupt prosecutors have done this with innocent defendants MANY times throughout the years.

Everything everyone is saying about 2 Person Authentication is not relevant anymore now that we know the prosecutor broke the Brady Rule.

Let's deal in facts and not what we THINK happened, like saying Baldwin paid the prosecution to throw the case. What?!

 

[Eiknarf]

Alec Baldwin Plans to Sue Santa Fe Prosecutor, Sheriff Over 'Rust' Case

Alec Baldwin is not done with New Mexico's legal system -- it looks like he's planning to legally go after the Santa Fe County Sheriff and the prosecutor in his "Rust" shooting case.

www.tmz.com

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Alec Baldwin Plans to Sue Santa Fe Prosecutor, Sheriff Over 'Rust' Case

Alec Baldwin is not done with New Mexico's legal system -- it looks like he's planning to legally go after the Santa Fe County Sheriff and the prosecutor in his "Rust" shooting case.

www.tmz.com

He'll probably win.

 

[DeafTourette]

Alec Baldwin Plans to Sue Santa Fe Prosecutor, Sheriff Over 'Rust' Case

Alec Baldwin is not done with New Mexico's legal system -- it looks like he's planning to legally go after the Santa Fe County Sheriff and the prosecutor in his "Rust" shooting case.

www.tmz.com

That's gonna be money in the bank. The prosecution was corrupt and it's provable...