Support NeoGAF

[Puscifer]

You know shit has gone sideways when even David Jaffe is calling Jim Ryan a little bitch for the constant whining.



Even CMAs main concern with this deal seems to be more about SLC in Cloud gaming and subscription model gaming.
Sony is bitching saying people will buy Xboxes if COD is on XGP.
So Sonys actual argument isnt being taken seriously but the Cloud Gaming and Subscription gaming argument made by no one, is the one CMA is really looking at.
A weird state of affairs.

Why care about Jaffe who's entire personality is butthurt because his creation is better without him? No offense but every GoW Barlog directs brought the series to new heights.

God of War 2 > God of War

And 20 hours too long for Ragnarok? Dude you played GoW 18, it's the same length Jesus Christ what a crybaby

 

[NuncaBob]

It's anchoring and building precedence. If MS knows they are going to get push back around this deal, they might make some crazy requests that they can then hold up and say, "See, there's no problem with this acquisition because Sony won't even let us have GamePass in their ecosystem." It's like telling someone, "You would expect to pay over $100 for this widget, but today, you can have it at the low price of two payments of $49.99."

 

[Hitchyhero]

I think what this shows is that Microsoft cares very little about the Xbox console and the hardware market. They want Gamepass on as many platforms as possible as they make more money with subscriptions and software sales.

Disagree. It shows that they want to give people options. Where have they shown that they "care very little" for the console and hardware.

I would argue that the actual series s and x console are beautifully engineered and designed better than the PS5 (imo, I know people will have their preferences). But it's by no means an effort that appears like "they care very little"

 

[Topher]

Nothing is stopping Microsoft from releasing those games on PlayStation without Game Pass.

From what some here have told me, Sony will actually pay Microsoft to keep their games off Game Pass.

 

[Swift_Star]

MS sounds a little desperate... Maybe things aren't going as smoothly as people say?

 

[Puscifer]

Right. I was saying that MS would have an invested interest in Sony.

Things I think everyone can agree on:

• Gamepass is the #1 reason to buy an Xbox.
• Worldwide, Playstation sells far more consoles than Xbox.
• MS would sell many more subscriptions being available on Playstation.
• If Gamepass and MS exclusives were on PS5, their would be no reason to own a Series X.

So if all the above is true and MS put Gamepass (and it's exclusives) on Playstation, they would rely on Sony to provide the platform for a large chunk of the subs. Meaning the ball would be in Sony's court giving them leverage on what could be on the subscription or not (Fifa).

The thing with gamepass is that it's implying you want to play all of those games to begin with honestly.

 

[DJ12]

Some people in here...

GP on PS would be like a trojan horse.

Maybe, although the quality is hardly compelling for a PlayStation Gamer. No one is going to get gamepass and then not buy God of War.

As a PlayStation owner I don't necessarily disagree with gamepass on PlayStation. If the price was low enough its just another service to get crappy games I'd never otherwise look at with the occasional worthwhile game thrown in.

Pretty much as psn+ will be when Sony stop trying so hard.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Sony is essentially doing whatever they can to keep the industry traditional where they are the market leader which is understandable. Putting gamepass on PS is good for consumer tho. No argument to say it isn’t. An Xbox game studios only version of gamepass on PlayStation.

 

[CeeJay]

it's ridiculous that this is even brought up. Sony should ask them if they can launch their own PS store on xbox. Maybe even PS+.

Why do you think that MS would definitely say no to having PS+ on Xbox?

MS would then have all their own content and Sony's too available within the Xbox eco-system, sounds like something that MS would jump at. I think it would be Sony who would lose out more in a situation like that, what would be the point in owning a Playstation console then?

 

[Swift_Star]

Maybe, although the quality is hardly compelling for a PlayStation Gamer. No one is going to get gamepass and then not buy God of War.

As a PlayStation owner I don't necessarily disagree with gamepass on PlayStation. If the price was low enough its just another service to get crappy games I'd never otherwise look at with the occasional worthwhile game thrown in.

Pretty much as psn+ will be when Sony stop trying so hard.

But as of now, PS+ offers the same as GP with Sony exclusives included. Xbox exclusives clearly aren't attractive to PS gamers, so there's really no point in having GP on the PS Ecosystem. MS is making no sense at all here.

 

[HTK]

If Microsoft wants to sell their games to everybody regardless of platform. Sell them on the PS Store for $69.99, let Sony get their 30% but now way will GamePass be on PlayStation.

I don't know how any of this will work out, quite frankly I don't really care. I just hope it puts some fire under everyone's asses to do better.

 

[phil_t98]

But as of now, PS+ offers the same as GP with Sony exclusives included. Xbox exclusives clearly aren't attractive to PS gamers, so there's really no point in having GP on the PS Ecosystem. MS is making no sense at all here.

well if Sony gamers are not concerned about Microsoft games then its no threat to Sony if gamepass was on there, is that right?

 

[ShirAhava]

In the gif the caveman is crushing the time traveler with the rock so....

He's actually crushing the camera......but yeah 70 dollar games > gamepass what a victory!

 

[John Wick]

Sony: We can't live without Call of Duty
Microsoft: You will have Call of Duty even after acquisition
Sony: But we can't compete when you will have Call of Duty on Game Pass
Microsoft: But you can have Game Pass on PlayStation
Sony: No

This is the logic I love from MS fangirls. Why would Sony allow GP on PlayStation?
Why don't Nintendo allow GP on their store or system?
Why don't MS allow Apple, Google, Amazon and Facebook storefronts on theirs?
Talk about moving the goalposts.

 

[Frank Horrigan]

Valid point. But wouldn't in this case MS rely on Sony doing well?

If they ruin Sony, Microsoft become the default console and get the market share. More people would be playing gamepass and that would make gamepass a more attractive place to put games on (and a soft way for 3rd parties to ram them full of mtx and smartphone-esque whale fishing tactics)

 

[Zok310]

Microsoft - hey, sie, can i fuck you 10/10 supermodel wife?

sie - fucking cunt!

 

[Topher]

Why do you think that MS would definitely say no to having PS+ on Xbox?

MS would then have all their own content and Sony's too available within the Xbox eco-system, sounds like something that MS would jump at. I think it would be Sony who would lose out more in a situation like that, what would be the point in owning a Playstation console then?

That works both ways though. What is the point of owning an Xbox if PlayStation has all its content via Game Pass?

He's actually crushing the camera......but yeah 70 dollar games > gamepass what a victory!

I clearly see the time traveler getting smushed there. But yeah <insert warrior comment here>.

 

[Jigga117]

A lot are missing the point. The goal isn’t about getting on Sony’s platform. It is about pointing out the contradiction of their argument about the acquisition of Activision and COD. Everything with their argument is being exposed along with the CMAUk using Sony’s argument about “some developer” has the same concern when we know it is Sony they are talking about. Sony is complaining about what they have always practice even today and the future with Bungie advertisement. complaining about losing gamers because of promotion of COD on Xbox as prioriTy over PlayStation

 

[Punished Miku]

But as of now, PS+ offers the same as GP with Sony exclusives included. Xbox exclusives clearly aren't attractive to PS gamers, so there's really no point in having GP on the PS Ecosystem. MS is making no sense at all here.

Theyre similar but not the same.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Next up, Microsoft outrage at Apple refusing to sell Microsoft hardware at the physical Apple stores.

Xbox controllers can be bought at Apple stores. PS controllers as well.

 

[Hitchyhero]

I'm quite confused by all of this tbh. I certainly don't get regulations around this and why certain companies can do whatever and others have to be harshly regulated.

When I first heard that MS had a few hundred million dollar fine because they included MS explorer browser I was like "wtf, it's there operating system, of course they would include it by default".

I'id assume that Sony should be able to do the same on their console and allow whatever they want. But I'm sure I also heard a lawsuit to do with oh phones and allowing 3rd party stores.... What happened to that? Then I wonder how console makers could argue that the competitor shouldn't be allowed to have a subscription service on their console.... But then they allow ubi+ and EA Play. Could Sony turn around and say we no longer allow Netflix and Disney plus because we want to own Sony pictures. How far can this go before it gets anti competitive.

So Genuine question.... Especially in regards to that last bit.... Could a case be argued here and Uni+ and EA Play are already on there? Just playing devils advocate here and a genuine discussion.

 

[NickFire]

There’s no way to fairly judge this situation without knowing more specifics about the offer(s). A blanket statement that Sony refused tells us nothing of substance. For all anyone knows the offer could have been great for everyone or a completely absurd proposal.

Anyway, I would personally be interested in a MS first party only version on PSN if it came out when Starfield does. But it would have to be fairly cheap and month to month because there Isn’t much else I’m interested in yet.

That said, I don‘t believe MS made a reasonable offer. My reasoning is simply that if they were really trying to expand their audience (without poison pills in the offer), then I believe we would have already heard that MS will sell their big acquired games on PSN for 70 in addition to offering GP Access.

 

[John Wick]

First of all. Neither I, neither you know what kind of offer Microsoft took to Sony. Honestly, if they offered streaming first-party Game Pass "lite" catalogue of games through Game Pass app on PlayStation that would be great. Same if Sony offered similar "lite" service on Xbox.

But I know that defending corpo is more important than having flexibility as a player right?

So we should be expecting Apple, Google, Amazon etc alternatives to MS products for PC any day now on MS storefronts. Obviously the flexibility is important for the consumer?

 

[Frank Horrigan]

A lot are missing the point. The goal isn’t about getting on Sony’s platform. It is about pointing out the contradiction of their argument about the acquisition of Activision and COD. Everything with their argument is being exposed along with the CMAUk using Sony’s argument about “some developer” has the same concern when we know it is Sony they are talking about. Sony is complaining about what they have always practice even today and the future with Bungie advertisement. complaining about losing gamers because of promotion of COD on Xbox as prioriTy over PlayStation

No.

Sony see the bigger picture and know it won't end well. Microsoft see the bigger picture and are trying to cash in on it, rather than stop it.

This is bigger than 'my plastic box good, your plastic box bad', this is about the industry which we are all part of.

 

[Three]

Why do you think that MS would definitely say no to having PS+ on Xbox?

MS would then have all their own content and Sony's too available within the Xbox eco-system, sounds like something that MS would jump at. I think it would be Sony who would lose out more in a situation like that, what would be the point in owning a Playstation console then?

In all honesty I don't know if they would. It may well be as you describe and the benefit to xbox would be greater than it would be for PS with xbox games. What I do know is that third party content in this case wouldn't make sense with these subscriptions then and would be severely disadvantaged.

 

[CeeJay]

That works both ways though. What is the point of owning an Xbox if PlayStation has all its content via Game Pass?



I clearly see the time traveler getting smushed there. But yeah <insert warrior comment here>.

You could say that now with gamepass available on PC native/browser streaming, mobile streaming, built-in app on some TVs, Meta Quest etc. Yet the consoles still sell well.

 

[Magic Carpet]

So we should be expecting Apple, Google, Amazon etc alternatives to MS products for PC any day now on MS storefronts. Obviously the flexibility is important for the consumer?

We already know how Apple turned out. They won't let other game services on their walled garden.
Sony will let them but only some.
Google don't care as long as they get eyeballs on advertisers.
I honestly don't know where Microsoft stands seems same as Sony but where do they stand on Fortnight store sells?

 

[Crispy Gamer]

If Microsoft want gamepass on competing hardware then they should just drop out of the console business and become a 3rd party publisher then I'm sure Sony and Nintendo would have no problem putting gamepass on their systems but Microsoft already knows this. Honestly, I find this conversation strange and it's even stranger to see people blame Sony for not allowing it and I also can't blame Microsoft for trying you gotta shoot your shot lol

 

[Torrent of Pork]

So we're just going to ignore the fact that this was a statement to the octogenarians in the CMA who don't know shit about gaming?

 

[skit_data]

I still stand by that I think we will see this in one form or another before the end of this generation

 

[remember_spinal]

Someone should get miyamoto on the phone and tell them about the value of gamepass

 

[Mung]

Lol what a clown show.

Why would playstation allow their rival's service on their own console? To deliberately destroy themselves?

Unhinged.

 

[Orbital2060]

I really don't get this "GamePass on PlayStation" thing.

How would that work exactly?

Why wouldn't Sony want this?
They accept EA Play.

Not only shouldn't they block it, they should actively want it. Imagine having every Microsoft first party game available on PS5, with native PS5 versions.

Wouldn't that automatically kill the need for an Xbox?

And also, Sony would get 30% of the subscription cost.
Microsoft would have to make PS5 version of games available.
MS would de facto become a third party publisher.

There's a "PC GamePass", a "Xbox GamePass", they would just need to make a "PS GamePass"

I don't get why Microsoft would do such a stupid move, unless they intend on being third party and abandoning console making.

Obviously, any online game not free to play would require PS+ Essential minimum.

Sony would be winning on all fronts.
No way MS offered to put GamePass on PS.

If really there was an offer, it must've come with some pretty shitty conditions for Sony, like no cut, MS Store included on PlayStation, etc.

In theory, you can have a future with subscriptions decoupled from the hardware. With the consoles becoming more like general use DVD players, or cinemas. Its probably possible to make an agreement on % on purchases made either way. Or have games locked to only streaming on Other Consoles.

I dont know if or how that would work with games specifically made for a particular hardware. Streaming only would solve that.

And you could play games with the controller you prefer. Input devices and software catalogue would be the main differentiator to reach an audience on more platforms.

 

[Jimmyisback]

Sony: We can't live without Call of Duty
Microsoft: You will have Call of Duty even after acquisition
Sony: But we can't compete when you will have Call of Duty on Game Pass
Microsoft: But you can have Game Pass on PlayStation
Sony: No

Too good.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nothing is stopping Microsoft from releasing those games on PlayStation without Game Pass.

One. And. Done.

The more MS speaks, the more they reveal the true plans for Game Pass is in hopes for a race to the bottom for their direct competitor.

 

[Tomofdahook17]

I'm a Playstation fan boy but I would love to see gamepass on my PS5. I currently uses it on my PC but it would be awesome to be able to play Sea of Thieves with my PS5 controller from my chair.

 

[Topher]

You could say that now with gamepass available on PC native/browser streaming, mobile streaming, built-in app on some TVs, Meta Quest etc. Yet the consoles still sell well.

Yes, but that just means most console gamers are not willing to become PC or streaming gamers simply for Game Pass. It doesn't benefit Sony or Microsoft to put their content on their competitor's platform.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Console wars wise gamepass makes no sense on PlayStation going back to game pass Microsoft’s point is they can move off hardware at any given time in that steam territory, will they make sure consoles exist? Sony will give gamers all they want, Microsoft is willing to hurt its customers.

 

[Punished Miku]

Lol what a clown show.

Why would playstation allow their rival's service on their own console? To deliberately destroy themselves?

Unhinged.

Same argument for MS putting a Call of Duty they own on there. Thats the point.

 

[oldergamer]

This will likely end up in court at some point. However this is why its happening:

https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2021/07/uk-antitrust-shakeup

There's a lower burden of proof required to block a merger/purchase

 

[Three]

Same argument for MS putting a Call of Duty they own on there. Thats the point.

They don't own it yet. These silly statements are being made because they want to own it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Same argument for MS putting a Call of Duty they own on there. Thats the point.

They don't own it. They are playing "what if" PR games, which appears that they are not as confident as they put out in the press.

This whole PR move is something I would expect to read out of goofy console warring online. And here we are.

 

[Punished Miku]

They don't own it yet. These silly statements are being made because they want to own it.

Obviously.

 

[oldergamer]

MS could open a few anti competition cases against playstation on the bungie purchase with the CMA. If there is such a low burden of proof

 

[Ezekiel_]

I still stand by that I think we will see this in one form or another before the end of this generation

So you're saying MS bought those publishers and studios to go around and eventually release those games on PS5, even after saying they were exclusive, making MS de facto a third party publisher?

I'm sure Sony would be so so sad about that.

 

[RaZoR No1]

MS could open a few anti competition cases against playstation on the bungie purchase with the CMA. If there is such a low burden of proof

With such a low burden of proof, anybody could open a case against everybody for every small purchase.

 

[IFireflyl]

I really don't get this "GamePass on PlayStation" thing.

How would that work exactly?

Why wouldn't Sony want this?
They accept EA Play.

Not only shouldn't they block it, they should actively want it. Imagine having every Microsoft first party game available on PS5, with native PS5 versions.

Wouldn't that automatically kill the need for an Xbox?

And also, Sony would get 30% of the subscription cost.
Microsoft would have to make PS5 version of games available.
MS would de facto become a third party publisher.

There's a "PC GamePass", a "Xbox GamePass", they would just need to make a "PS GamePass"

I don't get why Microsoft would do such a stupid move, unless they intend on being third party and abandoning console making.

Obviously, any online game not free to play would require PS+ Essential minimum.

Sony would be winning on all fronts.
No way MS offered to put GamePass on PS.

If really there was an offer, it must've come with some pretty shitty conditions for Sony, like no cut, MS Store included on PlayStation, etc.

If MS sold their games on the PS Store, and made a MS first party only GamePass available on PS, that would mostly benefit Sony.

There are two issues to consider:

1. Game Pass on PlayStation 5 would cut into Sony's game sales for third-party publishers who have games on Game Pass.
   • Most people who have the option of paying for the game or getting it for free are going to get the free route. Why buy a game on the PlayStation store when you can play it on Game Pass for free? I mean, there's the cost of the Game Pass subscription, obviously. But you get my meaning.
2. Game pass on PlayStation 5 would negate micro-transaction profit for Sony if the micro-transaction game is on Game Pass.
   • Game Pass on PlayStation would almost certainly be a streaming-only option. Xbox games cannot be natively played on a PlayStation 5, and this is almost certainly how Game Pass would operate because it would be the easiest and cheapest way to implement the Game Pass service.
   • Assuming the above is true, this means that everything done via Game Pass is routing through Microsoft's servers, not PlayStation's. This means that Sony wouldn't see a dime from micro-transactions for Game Pass games.

The only way to mitigate the first issue is for Microsoft to agree to pay royalties to Sony for every unique user that plays a game through Game Pass that is available on the PlayStation store, and that's not going to happen because that would not be cost effective.

The only way to mitigate the second issue would be for Microsoft to agree to pay the 30% fee to Sony for micro-transactions made in Game Pass games on PlayStation consoles. The problem is that, even if Microsoft did agree to this, Sony would have to take Microsoft at their word regarding how much was done in micro-transactions and how much Sony is owed. This is because Sony doesn't have a way to see what micro-transactions were done. If they did, they could have just assessed the fee themselves. The only alternative to this would be Microsoft agreeing to share their financials to Sony, and there is absolutely no way they're going to agree to that. No competitor shares their books. That's pretty much only done with mergers and acquisitions.

The second issue mentioned above is exactly what Epic Games Store did to Apple with Fortnite. They routed payments through their own network instead of Apple's so that Apple couldn't get their 30% cut. Game Pass on PlayStation would be a huge loss in money for Sony. There is zero upside, and PlayStation would very likely fail.

Ezekiel_ , this this in response to the other thread that looks like it now no longer exists, but is still relevant in this thread.

 

[Topher]

MS could open a few anti competition cases against playstation on the bungie purchase with the CMA. If there is such a low burden of proof

With such a low burden of proof, anybody could open a case against everybody for every small purchase.

This isn't a trial. And the CMA isn't a tool to be used by one corporation to sue another corporation. If Microsoft has a grievance against Sony then they can file a lawsuit at any time. It would have nothing to do with the CMA.

 

[DeepEnigma]

MS could open a few anti competition cases against playstation on the bungie purchase with the CMA. If there is such a low burden of proof

Sure, but they won't.

And 48 pages deep, people still compare purchasing two of the largest publishers in the world, with one being the very largest, all with 3rd party games that have been third party for decades and decades... to an independent developer that currently remains independent.

Get new material, focus.

This isn't a trial. And the CMA isn't a tool to be used by one corporation to sue another corporation. If Microsoft has a grievance against Sony then they can file a lawsuit at any time. It would have nothing to do with the CMA.

This.

I think Stadia shutting their doors about a week after their confidence PR with all of this, made them sweat a bit. Since they were leveraging on Stadia/Amazon initially as the main cloud gaming service competitors for the purchase bonanza.

 

[Black_Stride]

MS sounds a little desperate... Maybe things aren't going as smoothly as people say?

Wait MS sounds desperate?