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[nkarafo]

60fps doesn't need that much sacrifices if it's taken into account early.

The best looking 6th gen games were all 60fps.

But if sacrifices are made, i rather sacrifice some detail/resolution/etc for better performance. 60fps is the minimum. 120fps is ideal. It's 2022.

 

[Mobilemofo]

Replayed Arkham Asylum yesterday. Man, game runs smooth on my PS4 pro and still looks fabulous. That's 30fps isn't it? My memory fails me.

 

[bbeach123]

Depend , I take 30fps rdr2 graphic over 60fps gta 5 anytime .

But 30fps ultra settings rdr2 vs 60fps medium-high settings rdr2 ? 60fps easily .

 

[Reckheim]

I've been spoiled, I'm not playing anything sub 60fps.

 

[nahcir]

What is there to say? I prefer 60fps and love 120fps as I own a modern TV. I feel like the graphical 'niceties' 30fps fidelity modes offer in comparison to 60fps performance modes are never worth it, as we've essentially reached a point of diminishing returns in regard to how 'good' a modern game can look. You seem to think differently. I'm fine with that.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

This is becoming a boring conversation. I don't give a shit how you like to play your games, as long as you're having fun, whatever.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It's okay if you want to stay in the past. I get it.
Your father played at 30fps. Your father's father played at 30fps.

Funny thing is that most 8 and 16-bit games were 60 FPS

 

[rodrigolfp]

feel the input latency

There are fans of RDR2 and Killzone 2 so the logic behind latency doesn't work. Some people have just low standards.

 

[Rykan]

Multyplayer trash. And COD. Fantastic.

Which happen to be the most played games in the world and will be used as a benchmark for developers.

Improved visuals and higher fidelity are always the main selling point of a new console. Undeniable.

Sure. But developers aren't selling consoles, they're selling games and gamers expect a 60 FPS motions because some people like to actually play games

So what? A trailer is in motion right? 60fps is better for motion right? This should add fuel to your argument. Instead it falls flat on its face. 30fps is used for trailers because the visuals are better and devs/publishers alike want their game shown off in the way that makes said game LOOK the best it possibly can. In fidelity mode.

It doesn't fall "flat on its face", you just don't know what you're talking about. The benefits of 60 FPS is increased input responsiveness and a reduction of motion blur on camera movements: Two benefits that don't apply much when you have minimal camera movement in trailers and no input from the player as well.

Because we're getting a lot of cross gen, last gen looking crap. What a coincidence btw.

Oh you mean like Demon's Souls, Ratchet & clank, The Last of Us. All cross gen games, right? Oh wait, no they aren't.

Yes they do. TLOUPart 1 and 2, Spiderman, God of War, Days Gone, Ghosts of Tsushima, Halo Infinite, Uncharted Collection, Flight Sim, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon: Forbidden WestI could go on for hours. All have 30fps set to default. Not 60.

I haven't played all of these games, but I know some of your examples are flat out not true. TLOU Part 1's default mode is the performance mode.God of War on PS5 has a new default mode that is 4k/60 FPS. Halo's default mode is 60 FPS as well. GoT doesn't even have a 30 FPS mode for the PS5 version.

Wrong yet again. Incredible. All those games could run at 60fps. But they'd have to look uglier. So devs went with 30, because fidelity was prioritized. Thats just what it is.

Nah you're just showing off your ignorance on this subject again. Yeah they could run at 60 FPS, but the compromise would have to be much larger due to the CPU bottleneck. Modern day consoles don't have such a bottleneck, so the compromise is much smaller. Result: Nearly every game will offer a 60 FPS mode.

And I said Naughty Dogs next Single Player New IP will run at 30. The stuff that really pushes the hardware. You'll see.

As much as I loved TLOU P1... it was a PS3 remake.

It doesn't matter if it was a PS3 remake. It's a remake that doesn't offer a PS4 version. It was designed entirely from the ground up for the PS5, and it supports both a 60 FPS and 120FPS option. You'd have to be nuts if you think that they are going back ALL THE WAY to fps 30 only after. Oh spoiler: GTA VI? We've seen it. It's absolutely going to have a 60 FPS as well. Yet another prediction of yours that isn't coming true. Yikes.

 

[tommib]

30fps are fine in trailers, but the moment you pick up a controller and feel the input latency compared to 60fps or dare to disable the motion smeari... eh blur it gets seriously ugly.
I could barely tolerate it on LCDs, on OLEDs it`s become unacceptable.

Another reason I'll never get rid of my Sony 4K HDR LCD set.

 

[nkarafo]

24fps is the minimal threshold for human eye, below that we don't perceive as naturally moving animation

24fps was just a standard made by the film industry. It was like a balance between smooth enough motion and cost. Among some other things that have to do with audio i guess.

It's an archaic thing that people got used to. It's also about watching something passively, like a film. Interactivity requires higher rates to not be laggy/annoying.

 

[Shifty1897]

Funny thing is that most 8 and 16-bit games were 60 FPS

Some of the best N64 games were 20 fps though.

I can't go back to 30 fps, and shouldn't have to. I'm perfectly fine having a 60 fps mode in games as long as it's near-locked.

 

[smart_brazileiro]

Observation is certainly that 60fps or bust people are extremely dismissing and intolerant towards people who are able to enjoy games at 30fps. Thats what pisses me off the most. This attitude. Now that 60fps becomes more common (as an option) its suddenly (after ps3 and 4) impossible to play a game at 30fps and all that bollocks. Come the fuck on, peeps. Come the fuck on.

 

[Rykan]

Wow, you admitted being wrong AND doubled down on the same post. You're steadily becoming my 3rd-4th favourite user!

Half of his examples are wrong. He's even listing games that don't have a 30 FPS mode on current gen. I've had this discussion with him before, he's a gem.

 

[nkarafo]

Some of the best N64 games were 20 fps though.

That would not be acceptable if these games were 2D though. Side scrolling at anything below 60fps is an eye sore.

It was acceptable for 3D because the 5th gen was the first time we could have 3D textured graphics with detailed enough worlds. Before that the best we had were flat shaded polygons at 5-15 fps. So, better looking 3D at slightly higher rate than that was fine for the time.

Observation is certainly that 60fps or bust people are extremely dismissing and intolerant towards people who are able to enjoy games at 30fps. Thats what pisses me off the most. This attitude. Now that 60fps becomes more common (as an option) its suddenly (after ps3 and 4) impossible to play a game at 30fps and all that bollocks. Come the fuck on, peeps. Come the fuck on.

Nah, it was impossible for me to play many genres at 30fps after the PS2/GC/XBOX gen. 30fps racing games on PS3/PS4 for instance are literal, unplayable trash for me. Unacceptable when most 6th gen racers i used to play were 60fps.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It's a fact. Most people agree.

It's why better graphics are always advertised and the most anticipated new feature with every new console release. not goddamn framerate.

It's why fidelity 30fps mode is used to capture footage for every trailer and screenshot. Not 60fps mode.

You can't market high frame rates or how a game feels on the back of a game box. Marketing can sell how pretty a game looks to the mainstream on the back of the box or in trailers.

 

[darrylgorn]

By uglier, do people mostly mean stuff like not having ray tracing?

Because ray tracing seems like the biggest waste of time to me, especially if it means dropping to 30fps. I played a bit of Cyberpunk with it on, and the trade off is not worth it at all.

It's certainly a subjective impression at this point. I've played with it on at 60fps but yeah, if it meant going below that threshold, I would not make the trade off.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Funny thing is that most 8 and 16-bit games were 60 FPS

I know. How a game played was important, be it home consoles or arcades - the latter where nobody put out 30fps crap.

 

[kubricks]

It depends?
For competitive first person shooter, it just felt jarring at low fps unless you play it on a small screen like SD or Switch. 60fps is pretty standard and 120fps preferable.
For Slower paced games like JRPG, open worlds RPGs or strategy games 30fps is fine as long as the frame pacing is stable.

For driving games however, I absolutely cannot accept anything lower than 60fps, come at me.

 

[nkarafo]

It's a fact. Most people agree.

It's why better graphics are always advertised and the most anticipated new feature with every new console release. not goddamn framerate.

It's why fidelity 30fps mode is used to capture footage for every trailer and screenshot. Not 60fps mode.

It's why you still see devs prioritizing graphics and fidelity over framerate. 2 more games this week alone. More to come as games start pushing these consoles visually.

It's why games that offer both modes have 30fps fidelity mode set as the DEFAULT mode and you have to go in and manually switch to performance.

I could go on

Now some noob will quote me saying yOu pLAy gAmEs N0t wATch thEm as if everything I said isn't a fact and ignore the fact that practically every game on the market launches at 30fps and is later patched for 60. Because they prioritize graphics over framerate - because that's what most people prefer.

TLOU2, spider man, god of war, flight sim, mass effect, ghosts of Tsushima, Bioshock, Skyrim, halo, days gone, blah blah blah. every game.

I take you never had any experience with Arcade games in the mid to late 90s.

 

[Rickyiez]

Yeah fidelity is all nice at low fps until you try to control your character lmao.

There's a reason why games started at 60FPS

 

[nkarafo]

Funny thing is that most 8 and 16-bit games were 60 FPS

On consoles and arcades, yes.

On things like the Amstrad, Spectrum, Atari ST, Amiga, etc, the standards were MUCH lower.

 

[skneogaf]

I got headaches from playing bloodborne straight after I finished demon's souls.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I take you never had any experience with Arcade games in the mid to late 90s.

Yep. There's a big reason why all of Sega's arcade releases were 60fps.

 

[Generic]

Clean visuals and 60fps.

 

[M1chl]

The problem is that the games looks legitimate like shit, it does not feel fluid, it feels bad to play. And it does not have good fidelity, when you turn the screen and whole screen turns into smeared shit.

 

[ViolentP]

Performance>Gameplay>Fidelity.

 

[JCK75]

I stand somewhere inbetween..
I'll gladly settle for 45fps and I always seek a balance of how high I can crank up the eye candy while maintaining that.
For online multiplayer however I prioritize frame rate.

 

[nkarafo]

Another thing you need to consider is the input lag.

30fps games have inherently higher input lag than 60fps games. It's simply physics.

Now, the difference may only be 1 or 2 frames most of the time but modern gaming has many more sources that cause input lag. Modern, OS heavy consoles are more laggy now compared to simpler, older consoles and don't forget the extra lag you get from all the shitty modern panels compared to CRTs. All these add up so having a higher frame rate to compensate a bit is very important.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Sorry not playing anything at 30 fps ever again

Every game should have a 60 fps option

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Performance>Gameplay

 

[64gigabyteram]

It's a fact. Most people agree.

It's why better graphics are always advertised and the most anticipated new feature with every new console release. not goddamn framerate.

It's why fidelity 30fps mode is used to capture footage for every trailer and screenshot. Not 60fps mode.

It's why you still see devs prioritizing graphics and fidelity over framerate. 2 more games this week alone. More to come as games start pushing these consoles visually.

It's why games that offer both modes have 30fps fidelity mode set as the DEFAULT mode and you have to go in and manually switch to performance.

I could go on

Now some noob will quote me saying yOu pLAy gAmEs N0t wATch thEm as if everything I said isn't a fact and ignore the fact that practically every game on the market launches at 30fps and is later patched for 60. Because they prioritize graphics over framerate - because that's what most people prefer.

TLOU2, spider man, god of war, flight sim, mass effect, ghosts of Tsushima, Bioshock, Skyrim, halo, days gone, blah blah blah. every game.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I'd settle for 40. But framerate is indeed important. I game at 60 - 140 depending on how my 1080 is feeling. 4K is the real enemy for game consoles and GPU's, honestly.

 

[crazyriddler]

Sorry but no, 30 fps is shit for gaming... Well okey can be acceptable but I don't buy a ps5 for just an acceptable experience.

No 60 fps no buy.

 

[rofif]

I agree !
I've elaborated about this in Plague tale and spider man thread and wanted to create thread like that.

I tend to remember how awesome game looked and it's story/characters. I don't remember that the game ran "only 30 or 60fps".
I sit close to 48" oled but I liked good graphics even on 24 and 27" monitors (I had 27" 4k too). 1080p looks like ass.
30fps is perfectly fine with good motion blur as long as it's low input lag 30fps. Not the slow one like 30fps mode in Demons Souls.... which is 75ms slower than Bloodborne 30fps. DF made a video about that few months ago. Devs seem to be forgetting how to do proper 30fps and "let's slap 7 modes" mentality does not help at all... sine no mode is good and you have to pick what you want too give up...

Also... and this is more important. I am sick and tired of fresh pcmr boys behaving with entitlement only because they just discovered 60fps and they don't think they can adjust to 30fps again. YOU CAN. Play for some time and You will forget about it. The brain is an amazing device. Play in 20 fps for 1 minute and then switch to 30... I am gaming for over 25 years and I had 120hz (still have) crts back then, 120-240hz lcds and now 120hz oled.
I have no big problem switching and I like to be impressed by graphics.
People who recently discovered 60fps are just the most annoying kind ever. Shut the fuck up and get a pc. Don't ruin console gaming and don't take freedom away from the devs. ND made this amazing games because they could push tech at 30fps.

Boycotting and skipping games over 30fps is the most idiotic, anti gaming thing I've ever seen and it's madness. All uc games were 30fps, tlou1,2, Death Stranding, Bloodborne... hell even Dark Souls was BARELY 30fps and nobody cared. We all loved the game.

Even recent uc4 remaster on ps5, I've played in 4k30. Same with Horizon. Some games play ok in 30fps. 40fps is good middle goound too.
I still do choose 60fps often like Demons Souls. And on pc I play 4k120 of course.
But when I have to choose tech push at 30fps or 60fps, I will be sure to watch df video to decide...
Unfortunately I have bad luck of always finishing the game, after which 40fps patch drops with no drawbacks to resolution... (which also means the 30fps mode could've been pushed further graphically)

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

goldeneye on n64 had the smoothest frame rate of all time and it sold great

 

[rofif]

You can definitely have both. Something like Demons Souls is a good example of this, the fidelity mode is pretty much redundant given how good their upscaling solution is. Similar with R&C.

30fps is perfectly acceptable depending on the game. But there are games where 60fps is almost required to have an enjoyable gameplay experience.

You can have both but Demons SOuls is the worst example.
Their 30fps mode is 75ms slower than bloodborne 30fps... I wanted to play 4k30 but I couldn't. It's terrible even for me. I've launched BB and it is so much faster... then DF dropped their video 3 months ago. Watch near the end. Framepacing is one thing but Bloodborne 30fps played so much faster and better

 

[darrylgorn]

We need a Sony stamp of quality like Nintendo's back in the day lol

60fps at a specific minimum resolution. Then you have a set standard and this problem goes away.


(That's a lie, then we'll start arguing about frametimes)

 

[rofif]

Simple. Because then you are choosing between two bad modes. 30fps is handles badly with low input lag like in Demons Souls and 60fps is 1080p or some crap.
YOu choose what you want to give up... not which mode you like more. but which mode drawbacks you are willing to accept more.
This is not what console gaming should be about.
That said - I like 40fps modes and I really like vrr/cap off modes.

 

[Kabelly]

There are fans of RDR2 and Killzone 2 so the logic behind latency doesn't work. Some people have just low standards.

funny cuz I've been played RDR2 on PC for the first time since I played at 30fps on PS4.

I'm playing this game at 4k 100fps give or take and what I've learned is that Red Dead Redemption 2 is probably one of this worst controlling third person games no matter the framerate. I suffer through it because of the beauty of the game but damn there's just so many prompts sometimes the game will make you input random shit. Even just controlling arthur in small spaces is like he's missing a braincell or three.

 

[crazyriddler]

I agree !
I've elaborated about this in Plague tale and spider man thread and wanted to create thread like that.

I tend to remember how awesome game looked and it's story/characters. I don't remember that the game ran "only 30 or 60fps".
I sit close to 48" oled but I liked good graphics even on 24 and 27" monitors (I had 27" 4k too). 1080p looks like ass.
30fps is perfectly fine with good motion blur as long as it's low input lag 30fps. Not the slow one like 30fps mode in Demons Souls.... which is 75ms slower than Bloodborne 30fps. DF made a video about that few months ago. Devs seem to be forgetting how to do proper 30fps and "let's slap 7 modes" mentality does not help at all... sine no mode is good and you have to pick what you want too give up...

Also... and this is more important. I am sick and tired of fresh pcmr boys behaving with entitlement only because they just discovered 60fps and they don't think they can adjust to 30fps again. YOU CAN. Play for some time and You will forget about it. The brain is an amazing device. Play in 20 fps for 1 minute and then switch to 30... I am gaming for over 25 years and I had 120hz (still have) crts back then, 120-240hz lcds and now 120hz oled.
I have no big problem switching and I like to be impressed by graphics.
People who recently discovered 60fps are just the most annoying kind ever. Shut the fuck up and get a pc. Don't ruin console gaming and don't take freedom away from the devs. ND made this amazing games because they could push tech at 30fps.

Boycotting and skipping games over 30fps is the most idiotic, anti gaming thing I've ever seen and it's madness. All uc games were 30fps, tlou1,2, Death Stranding, Bloodborne... hell even Dark Souls was BARELY 30fps and nobody cared. We all loved the game.

Even recent uc4 remaster on ps5, I've played in 4k30. Same with Horizon. Some games play ok in 30fps. 40fps is good middle goound too.
I still do choose 60fps often like Demons Souls. And on pc I play 4k120 of course.
But when I have to choose tech push at 30fps or 60fps, I will be sure to watch df video to decide...
Unfortunately I have bad luck of always finishing the game, after which 40fps patch drops with no drawbacks to resolution... (which also means the 30fps mode could've been pushed further graphically)

Nothing ruins more the console gaming experience that 30 fps, I was always a PC gamer but with this new gen I bought a PS5 and 60 fps in a big screen is glorious, for me the most annoying thing is people that prefer graphics over playability, if you want better graphics go to the cinema.

 

[64gigabyteram]

I tend to remember how awesome game looked and it's story/characters. I don't remember that the game ran "only 30 or 60fps".

Most games aren't story focused, a lot of them aren't graphics showcases either. Story focused games work at 30fps (though they're preferable at 60) but at the end of the day they still have gameplay segments and those gameplay segments feel and play like shit at 30.
Also If a game has terrible performance you're gonna remember that. You're hardly ever seen talking about how much you love the story and characters of (insert game here) but instead complaining about how 30fps in modern games is worse than 30fps from a couple years ago...

 

[Fbh]

I still think it depends on the game.
I can definitely see the argument in favor of visual fidelity when it comes to big cinematic games. Games like TLOU2, RDR2 or Horizon Zero Dawn would probably had a lower impact if their visuals had been scaled back enough to run at 60fps on a base Ps4.

Though I'd be happy if this gen we stayed at the visual fidelity of stuff like RDR2, Demon Souls, Gow Ragnarok and Rift Apart while maintaining 60fps and innovating in other areas besides visuals.

 

[Senua]

John Linneman?

 

[BadBurger]

Unless handled exceptionally well, like what they did with the latest Ratchet and Clank, action and adventure games running at 30 fps can literally give me a headache these days. I don't know if I've just gotten too accustomed to 60 fps or greater (PS5 and highend PC for years now), or my eyesight is going.

Besides, 30 fps is very noticeable and generally just makes the game feel choppy and play more poorly than it should. Why not opt for 60? The differences in image quality between the two modes typically tend to be minor in my experience.

 

[balls of snow]

Firmly agree. Want 60 fps, get a pc.

 

[Represent.]

Can't debunk anything I said huh

If you want 60 in every game, buy a PC or simply shut the fuck up. It's been this way since the start

 

[64gigabyteram]

Multyplayer trash. And COD. Fantastic

Still the most played games because they play well... which wouldn't be the case if they ran at 30fps. The only trash thing here is your opinions.

 

[Shubh_C63]

I rather play Zeldabotw at 60fps then Horizon Zero Dawn at 30 fps.

 

[JLB]