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[Ass of Can Whooping]

Banjo64 what's the return policy on that kidney of yours?

 

[GHG]

 

[bender]

Banjo64 what's the return policy on that kidney of yours?

He sold two to double up his profits.

 

[Three]

Microsoft already highlighted in its comments that Sony was able to use its market leader position to increase the cost of its games, hardware (post launch), and services without fear of losing sales.
Sony claiming that Microsoft would harm consumers if it did what Sony already did is pretty funny, you'd have to agree?

Not really because they addressed it and MS know they are being disingenuous with that line of thinking.

Sony did not raise the price due to a dominant position. They absolutely understand that it would lower demand and price is a factor but its because of the bad economic climate, rising costs due to inflation, supply shortages and currency differences.
MS know that the price difference helps them and Sony know it doesn't help them at all.

This is a company that was dominating even more with PS2 than it is today and still had price drops like this


They know that pushing console sales and lower console prices is important to software revenue and subscriptions which is where they make their longterm money but they can't eat costs as well as your trillion dollar company can with the inflation, supply and FX differences today. To suggest it's because of market position is disingenuous. MS plan to raise prices too anyway but they are waiting for the holiday sales where they had no competitive game releases to be over to get as many people as possible to buy their console over the other and sub to GP, then when the actual heavy hitter games release likely raise subscription prices.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Its kinda sad we can't have a real and good discussion here.

Seems like only a few people are at least trying to read all those files and statement entirely.

Most in here are only focussing on single lines and words without the context and broader scope and trying very hard to meme everything.

Anyways thanks for everyone that contributed somthing usefull. Had an interesting evening catching up on this thread.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Theirs is legally right. It might not be for you, but its for regulators.
These are lawyer point of view, which you as consumer cant see. Its what gives you a point with regulators.

Who says it's right for the regulators? There is actually zero evidence the regulators, the board members now looking to approve this deal in phase 2 (a team different from the first, and that also has final say) is agreeing with Sony's claims. They've stressed even in their own issues statement that phase 1 is by no means a decision, and that phase 2 has a much higher threshold for stopping the deal.

Microsoft points out that input foreclosure cases brought over the last six years by CMA have all involved the acquisition of substantial market power, none of which Call of Duty or Activision Blizzard represents by the hard numbers. And Xbox itself is literally last place amongst consoles, significantly so.

 

[adamsapple]

Linaaaaaaaaaaa !

 

[feynoob]

Who says it's right for the regulators? There is actually zero evidence the regulators, the board members now looking to approve this deal in phase 2 (a team different from the first, and that also has final say) is agreeing with Sony's claims. They've stressed even in their own issues statement that phase 1 is by no means a decision, and that phase 2 has a much higher threshold for stopping the deal.

Microsoft points out that input foreclosure cases brought over the last six years by CMA have all involved the acquisition of substantial market power, none of which Call of Duty or Activision Blizzard represents by the hard numbers. And Xbox itself is literally last place amongst consoles, significantly so.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

"According to three people with knowledge of the matter."

Jim Ryan and two sony representatives. From the same article.

 

[feynoob]

How far is MS willing to go this time?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Be ready for next year May/June when I say "I told you so."

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Who says it's right for the regulators? There is actually zero evidence the regulators, the board members now looking to approve this deal in phase 2 (a team different from the first, and that also has final say) is agreeing with Sony's claims. They've stressed even in their own issues statement that phase 1 is by no means a decision, and that phase 2 has a much higher threshold for stopping the deal.

Microsoft points out that input foreclosure cases brought over the last six years by CMA have all involved the acquisition of substantial market power, none of which Call of Duty or Activision Blizzard represents by the hard numbers. And Xbox itself is literally last place amongst consoles, significantly so.

 

[feynoob]

Be ready for next year May/June when I say "I told you so."

 

[GHG]

"According to three people with knowledge of the matter."

Jim Ryan and two sony representatives. From the same article.

Damn son, Jim gets around.

First the UK, then Brussels and now Washington.

It begs the question, what the hell did he do with his time in Brazil?

 

[feynoob]

Damn son, Jim gets around.

First the UK, then Brussels and now Washington.

It begs the question, what the hell did he do with his time in Brazil?

brazil hates the yankees. They called football a soccer.
They still pissed off about that,

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Not really because they addressed it and MS know they are being disingenuous with that line of thinking.

Sony did not raise the price due to a dominant position. They absolutely understand that it would lower demand and price is a factor but its because of the bad economic climate, rising costs due to inflation, supply shortages and currency differences.
MS know that the price difference helps them and Sony know it doesn't help them at all.

This is a company that was dominating even more with PS2 than it is today and still had price drops like this


They know that pushing console sales and lower console prices is important to software revenue and subscriptions which is where they make their longterm money but they can't eat costs as well as your trillion dollar company can with the inflation, supply and FX differences today. To suggest it's because of market position is disingenuous. MS plan to raise prices too anyway but they are waiting for the holiday sales where they had no competitive game releases to be over to get as many people as possible to buy their console over the other and sub to GP, then when the actual heavy hitter games release likely raise subscription prices.

What most people forget is, that both companys are stock traded and they both have to perform better each year.

Shareholders demand from both sony and ms that they do everything they can to keep the company and stock in good performance.
Which is why Sony might be under more pressure to rise their hardware and software prices then ms.

Ms has way more products and a wider area of services they offer thus they can easily shift costs between these. They can keep gaming relates Hw and sw prices lower but increase prices for licensing windows or azure services and so on.

Most people in here are not even considering these things or they deliberatly overlook these facts for simple console warrioring.

 

[Iced Arcade]

oh yeah that deals toast now lol.


next up... MS just buys COD IP from Activision lol

 

[SenjutsuSage]

How far is MS willing to go this time?

FTC can't block the deal, they would have to sue and then win in court. They would be guaranteed to be defeated in U.S. court based on the law. The FTC doesn't have the same kind of power that the CMA has in England, or even that the EU possesses. And after losing that case to a major Biden Administration ally in Microsoft, Lina Khan would be out as FTC Chair not very long afterward, but definitely before the 2024 cycle. Bank on it.

Even Activision in the very article is letting it be known they would fit it in court. Translation: Microsoft are confident about the deal's legality, that it's on solid grounds, and will fight it in court if necessary.

"Any suggestion that the transaction could lead to anticomp effects is completely absurd. This merger will benefit gamers and the US gaming industry, especially as we face increasingly stiff competition from abroad," said Activision spokesperson Joe Christinat. "We are committed to continuing to work cooperatively with regulators around the globe to allow the transaction to proceed, but will not hesitate to fight to defend the transaction if required."

 

[BigbyTheSheriff]

 

[SoraNoKuni]

Finally, thank god people nowadays know what monopolistic tactics do to the market.

 

[feynoob]

Most people in here are not even considering these things or they deliberatly overlook these facts for simple console warrioring.

Its either you are with them, or you are against them. There nothing in between.

I am on the "Approved section". Still, I gotta wait until this shit gets more spicy. These new info is changing the dynamics.

 

[FunkMiller]

Looking more and more likely this thing is headed down the shitter.

Maybe it'll be a lesson for Phil not to try and take too big a bite.

 

[Jerm411]

Boy that is rich coming from him….

 

[Three]

I don't think it's actually been voted but it just says likely. The title is not a statement of fact.

 

[BigbyTheSheriff]

Boy that is rich coming from him….

He's not wrong though.

 

[GHG]

Jez questioning journalistic integrity.

You love to see it.

I don't think it's actually been voted but it just says likely. The title is not a statement of fact.

Oh I know, it wont stop the crying though. Jim Ryan is already being blamed for the article.

 

[feynoob]

FTC can't block the deal, they would have to sue and then win in court. They would be guaranteed to be defeated in U.S. court based on the law. The FTC doesn't have the same kind of power that the CMA has in England, or even that the EU possesses. And after losing that case to a major Biden Administration ally in Microsoft, Lina Khan would be out as FTC Chair not very long afterward, but definitely before the 2024 cycle. Bank on it.

Even Activision in the very article is letting it be known they would fit it in court. Translation: Microsoft are confident about the deal's legality, that it's on solid grounds, and will fight it in court if necessary.

MS just need to shut up. The more they open their mouth, the more they bring trouble to themselves.

 

[adamsapple]

"According to three people with knowledge of the matter."

Jim Ryan and two sony representatives. From the same article.

"We received this info from 3 people with knowledge, a J. Ryan, K. Hirai and P. Harrison.

 

[Pelta88]

You know who right now on twitter

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Its either you are with them, or you are against them. There nothing in between.

I am on the "Approved section". Still, I gotta wait until this shit gets more spicy. These new info is changing the dynamics.

Oh i "fear" the same. Its just, from my point of view sonys statements/positions are not that exaggerated as some people here are claiming.
Also stakeholders are obviously expecting sony to go against this merger. So they have to fight it with all means.

 

[feynoob]

vs

 

[BigbyTheSheriff]

Ok, Phil, drop this deal. Try Capcom.

 

[feynoob]

Oh i "fear" the same. Its just, from my point of view sonys statements/positions are not that exaggerated as some people here are claiming.
Also stakeholders are obviously expecting sony to go against this merged. So they have to fight it with all means.

Both lawyers would downplay their momentum for the regulators. MS is playing as weak console, while Sony is like we are dead without COD.

Its like watching 2 kids complain to their mother.

 

[Spitfire098]

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Regardless of what happens at least all this sweating will help these chunky fuckers lose some weight

 

[GHG]

Ok, Phil, drop this deal. Try Capcom.

幸運を

 

[BigbyTheSheriff]

幸運

F you for making me google translate that.

 

[bender]

Regardless of what happens at least all this sweating will help these chunky fuckers lose some weight

I was just thinking that Jez looks like a talentless, fat version of Layne Staley.

 

[GHG]

Regardless of what happens at least all this sweating will help these chunky fuckers lose some weight

I reckon Greenberg will be a bigger hit with the ladies than Phil if he got skinny.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I refuse to believe it.

Why are you, Jim Ryan behaving like a little female dog?

!!!!!!!!!PLEASE, LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!!!!!

 

[Kacho]

Just saw the news on Twitter

RIP Papa Phil

 

[xHunter]

 

[GHG]

Nothing new there then.

 

[ZehDon]

... Sony did not raise the price due to a dominant position...

Perhaps I didn't explain my opinion there correctly. For its hardware, Sony didn't raise the price due to its dominant position alone. That is to say, Sony didn't just say "Ah, fuck it" and raised its hardware prices for shits and giggles because its out ahead. It raised its prices due to the current economic shitstorm. However, you'll note that Microsoft didn't raise its prices. This is because, due to its competitor position, it can't raise its prices and hope to compete with Sony's deeply entrenched position. So, Microsoft has to weather the bad economy "as is" heading into the holidays. Sony, due to its dominant position, is able to raise its hardware prices - price increases that are triggered by the economic storm - knowing that it won't lose sales. This is great for Sony, but its harmful for consumers - and it's an option not really available to its competitors if they want to compete.

Software is a different story. Sony absolutely raised its prices due to its dominant position. Sony decided to be first through the wall with the next-gen price hike, knowing its dominant position allowed it to soak up the bad consumer optics and still come out on top. And now, people are defending its price increase while other companies follow Sony's lead - proving Sony was correct. Looking at Sony's financials, it's posted healthy, and even record breaking, profits with its PlayStation division for quite some time. A software price increase simply wasn't required or even justified - but Sony knew it had built up such a windfall from the PS4 that now was the time to cash in. And to prime their consumers, they started charging upgrade fees for cross-gen games, making sure their customers couldn't miss the message: next-gen costs more. Activision, EA, Ubisoft; they're just stepping through the breach Sony created. That all of them were and are posting very healthy profits, and all choosing to hike their prices following Sony's move, shows that Sony's dominant position combined with its willingness to wield its influence is deeply harmful for consumers. For Sony to turn around and basically say "if you let Microsoft compete with us by buying ABK, they'll raise prices which will hurt gamers!" is fucking hilarious given that Sony literally just did that.

 

[mansoor1980]

that tweet needs a new thread

 

[Bernkastel]

Thought they still did marketing deals. Like with The Medium for example.

No idea where this idea that Microsoft doesn't engage in them comes from.

From its fanboys and fangirls changing their mind, that Google and Amazon is no longer the boogeyman but Sony is. All so that their trillion dollar conglomerate seems like a david fighting a goliath rather than the other way round.

Timed exclusivity has existed since a long ago, before either one entered the console space.
But these GAAS games content exclusivity deals where a part of the game is locked to one platform, making one version superior. MS has not done any deal like that since The Division (where some DLC was timed for a month). The Medium is a single player game that you can play anytime.
I remember everyone ploughing on MS throughout 7th gen for having timed exclusive DLCs for a few months(but no one was allowed to complain when Sony made deals for games like Eternal Sonata which were funded by Xbox to release on PS3 with more content that will never release on 360) even though Virtua Fighter was timed exclusive for a whole year. Then in 8th gen even though MS stopped doing them, initially everyone supported these deals "MS did them so it's okay". But then these deals became worse, lasting almost a whole year and almost giving p2w advantages to one platform. No one is allowed to criticize it. I guess we have finally moved to the new goalpost of calling MS incompetent for not signing these deals.

Xbox boss Phil Spencer says he's "not a fan" of marketing deals with console exclusive content

Unless it's a 12-month timed exclusive. Is what he forgot to say.

www.vg247.com

And true to their words, they have not paid for any platform exclusive content since then. Meanwhile

Sony: "We don't buy exclusivity"

SCEA boss Jack Tretton has criticised what he described as the "different approach" of rival platform holders, stating …

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Thirty7ven]

Damn son, Jim gets around.

First the UK, then Brussels and now Washington.

It begs the question, what the hell did he do with his time in Brazil?

No disrespect to the Brazilians around here but anybody who follows politics in Brazil knows it's a corrupt shitshow. If Jim Ryan didn't arrive on the scene with a bag of cash hookers and blow he didn't even get past the door.

 

[skit_data]

Wow, really?
Gotta say, I'm actually surprised.

So much for the whole "it'll go through without a problem"-narrative if this is the case.

Edit: And it's FTC, not even EU or CMA? Good luck getting it through this side of the pond if FTC takes such a stance on the matter.

 

[GHG]

Perhaps I didn't explain my opinion there correctly. For its hardware, Sony didn't raise the price due to its dominant position alone. That is to say, Sony didn't just say "Ah, fuck it" and raised its hardware prices for shits and giggles because its out ahead. It raised its prices due to the current economic shitstorm. However, you'll note that Microsoft didn't raise its prices. This is because, due to its competitor position, it can't raise its prices and hope to compete with Sony's deeply entrenched position. So, Microsoft has to weather the bad economy "as is" heading into the holidays. Sony, due to its dominant position, is able to raise its hardware prices - price increases that are triggered by the economic storm - knowing that it won't lose sales. This is great for Sony, but its harmful for consumers - and it's an option not really available to its competitors if they want to compete.

Software is a different story. Sony absolutely raised its prices due to its dominant position. Sony decided to be first through the wall with the next-gen price hike, knowing its dominant position allowed it to soak up the bad consumer optics and still come out on top. And now, people are defending its price increase while other companies follow Sony's lead - proving Sony was correct. Looking at Sony's financials, it's posted healthy, and even record breaking, profits with its PlayStation division for quite some time. A software price increase simply wasn't required or even justified - but Sony knew it had built up such a windfall from the PS4 that now was the time to cash in. And to prime their consumers, they started charging upgrade fees for cross-gen games, making sure their customers couldn't miss the message: next-gen costs more. Activision, EA, Ubisoft; they're just stepping through the breach Sony created. That all of them were and are posting very healthy profits, and all choosing to hike their prices following Sony's move, shows that Sony's dominant position combined with its willingness to wield its influence is deeply harmful for consumers. For Sony to turn around and basically say "if you let Microsoft compete with us by buying ABK, they'll raise prices which will hurt gamers!" is fucking hilarious given that Sony literally just did that.

I agree with everything you've written here, Sony are exercising pricing power in the same way any other business in their position would. However there is also the factor of which business is in a better position to absorb additional costs in a situation like this and that would be Microsoft by quite some distance.

In any case, if it's something that Sony want to have any weight with regulators (or if Microsoft want to attack them via this angle and they need to defend it) then they would need to provide evidence that not raising their prices would put the division in a financially compromising position.