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[GHG]

It is, im not sure what kind of lawyers ms hired, lol.

The kind that quote tweets from Tom Warren in their official responses to regulators.

 

[IFireflyl]

To be clear here, when I made that post, I wasn't necessarily assuming that any company would actually want to purchase the Xbox brand hardware + Xbox Live infrastructure, so if nobody like Tencent, Amazon, Electronic Arts, etc. decide that they want to acquire the Xbox hardware division from Microsoft, then the Xbox Series X|S consoles would just wither away and experience the fate of the Dreamcast, and for the online services on Xbox consoles to be summarily shut down by Microsoft with a given committed date provided as agreed to with the regulators in such a hypothetical scenario. Again, I want to emphasize that's just my prediction of what I think the CMA is going to do come next week with their provisional findings. So is that a painful price for Microsoft to pay? Of course yes, but that would be what they would have to do to obtain a mammoth-sized third party publisher that's multiple times larger than Zenimax in Activision-Blizzard-King.

The CMA wouldn't even offer that because forcing a divestiture of hardware would severely and irreparably harm the gaming industry. You're welcome to your opinion, but there is a zero percent chance of this outcome occurring. The CMA has to consider industry impacts both with acquisitions as well as with their own rulings and concessions that are offered in regards to acquisitions.

 

[RickMasters]

To make matters worse as a result of all this Kotick (along with the executives that have been involved in all of the scandals) gets out with a golden parachute of epic proportions, somewhat justifying his actions.

Whose side are they really on here?

Are you seriously blaming xbox gamers (or xbots as you guys distastefully love to call them ) for the choices a trillion dollar company makes? this thread is kind of insane but I dont know what to make of these kinds of statements other than see them as.... misdirected anger? xbox owners have no say in what kotik gets paid to leave ABK, and if this deal dont go through he may even be obliged to stick around... due to changes in circumstances... Maybe a failed acquisition puts a lot of people out of jobs over there.... who will you blame for that?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Are you seriously blaming xbox gamers (or xbots as you guys distastefully love to call them ) for the choices a trillion dollar company makes? this thread is kind of insane but I dont know what to make of these kinds of statements other than see them as.... misdirected anger? xbox owners have no say in what kotik gets paid to leave ABK, and if this deal dont go through he may even be obliged to stick around... due to changes in circumstances... Maybe a failed acquisition puts a lot of people out of jobs over there.... who will you blame for that?

Not sure about the previous comments, but ... for this one, it'll be on Microsoft and ABK for even considering a $70 billion merger when their competitor had a market cap of around $85 billion. Don't you think?

 

[IFireflyl]

Are you seriously blaming xbox gamers (or xbots as you guys distastefully love to call them ) for the choices a trillion dollar company makes? this thread is kind of insane but I dont know what to make of these kinds of statements other than see them as.... misdirected anger? xbox owners have no say in what kotik gets paid to leave ABK, and if this deal dont go through he may even be obliged to stick around... due to changes in circumstances... Maybe a failed acquisition puts a lot of people out of jobs over there.... who will you blame for that?

I think his points is that some of the arguments from supporters of this acquisition have revolved around Bobby Kotick, and GHG is pointing out that that acquisition didn't need to happen in order for Kotick to be ousted, and that so far Microsoft has said that Kotick will remain post-acquisition. This effectively would negate those specific arguments from certain pro-acquisition folk.

 

[GHG]

Are you seriously blaming xbox gamers (or xbots as you guys distastefully love to call them ) for the choices a trillion dollar company makes? this thread is kind of insane but I dont know what to make of these kinds of statements other than see them as.... misdirected anger? xbox owners have no say in what kotik gets paid to leave ABK, and if this deal dont go through he may even be obliged to stick around... due to changes in circumstances... Maybe a failed acquisition puts a lot of people out of jobs over there.... who will you blame for that?

There's so much here that's wrong so I'm just going to summarise with the following:

No. Learn to read.

 

[ToadMan]

It works both ways;

1)We want games for everyone. Exclusives are bad - Proceeds to buy Zenimax and makes games exclusive. - just after Sony bought timed exclusivity for 2 Bethesda game and was rumoured to be trying to get starfield as a result excluding all non playstation owners and limiting access to the games. MS acquisition will allow PC and Xbox players to get new Bethesda games days one. And people who are not total fanboys to play these games via xcloud for 15usd/ month.

2 Bethesda games which are now available on MS platforms…

Content rights deals are common across many industries whether its books, movies, music or videogames. They are an established part of the competitive landscape in content production industries and those deals don't last forever.

Acquisitions leading to existing content becoming walled off in perpetuity are not in the interest of consumers or the businesses that have invested in the market for decades. Such acquisitions have an unpredictable effect on those markets going forward.

So reduced consumer choice and risk to market health - both things the FTC has expressed concerns over.

For better or worse exclusivity deals are a part of the industry but no industry player except MS, has the means to buy a monopoly or manipulate the market through simple exclusivity deals.

And MS is trying to save money and gain permanent exclusivity through acquisition of existing cross platform content.

If exclusivity deals are "wrong" in your opinion, then MS should not be able to complete this purchase in the way they're attempting to do it. Regardless, the risk to health of the videogame market isn't, in my opinion, worth whatever potential benefits MS claim come through this.

 

[DForce]

I'm just randomly browsing twitter and this shows up on my timeline (I'm not even following the person who quoted the tweet).

 

[ToTTenTranz]

That said, I think Activision will be just fine in the long run if the deal does get blocked.

Activision will be fine, but SenjutsuSage will still lose a ton of money.

 

[Nothing1234]

That tweet is hilarious Bungie isn't even half a Bethesda.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

That tweet is hilarious Bungie isn't even half a Bethesda.

I think it's because most scrutiny / media attraction has been around COD itself.

 

[Nothing1234]

I think it's because most scrutiny / media attraction has been around COD itself.

Would the same scrutiny be put on Fortnite, FIFA, Madden, GTA, NBA2K, Apex Legends etc?

 

[demigod]

I'm just randomly browsing twitter and this shows up on my timeline (I'm not even following the person who quoted the tweet).

What an embarrassing take considering Sony has already said Bungie won't go exclusive. I hope that twitter person isn't a gaffer.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Places like gaf don't shape gaming generations anymore, places like Twitter/Tik Tok do.

They just repeat the informed substantiated options at places like gaff - hence why big companies like Microsoft have been caught trying to discord control the narrative at places like gaf.

Twitter/Tik Toks don't have the mega-next-gen threads that start those fires with a spark, they merely spread the message, and is why publisher/platform holders making mistakes only truly fix those mistakes when they come and kiss the ring with better offerings/policies at gaf type places. The 3DS turnaround starts in places like gaf for sure, because the actual changes were so subtle for most casuals that all that really changed was public opinion of it being undesirable to desirable.

 

[GHG]

What an embarrassing take considering Sony has already said Bungie won't go exclusive. I hope that twitter person isn't a gaffer.

Is it not SenjutsuSage ?

 

[Banjo64]

I'm just randomly browsing twitter and this shows up on my timeline (I'm not even following the person who quoted the tweet).

How does the market leader get to buy the #2 best-selling FPS behind Call of Duty for that many years and also the 7th best-selling franchise in that same period?

My life is so much better for reading this twice.

I don't really care. I don't complain about these things.

The above reads like a complaint to me.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Awe, you and drganon should ease up. adamsapple took his ban. Give him another chance. Sure he's got a major boner for Microsoft, but as long as he's not console warring there is no reason to antagonize him just because he disagrees with your stance on the acquisition. I actually like some of his posts when it's not a Microsoft vs. Sony discussion.

I was talking in general. Seems to me that many are taking this very badly and the victim in this whole thing. Its been a recent trend and its obvious that the mods are trying to stop it. Don't want anyone else to get permed because it's a really dumb thing to get banned over. It's not worth it IMO.

 

[Goalus]

More like: how do you pay all these 3rd-party publishers to block their games from appearing on Xbox.

Looks like I was right.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Would the same scrutiny be put on Fortnite, FIFA, Madden, GTA, NBA2K, Apex Legends etc?

Fortnite and FIFA perhaps. All to do with current mindshare I'd say. It's like how WoW is just nothing now with regards to this deal.

Edit: GTA too

 

[azertydu91]

I was talking in general. Seems to me that many are taking this very badly and the victim in this whole thing. Its been a recent trend and its obvious that the mods are trying to stop it. Don't want anyone else to get permed because it's a really dumb thing to get banned over. It's not worth it IMO.

You do know that there is a curse floating above your head....Anybody you argue with will end up banned ....Be careful with that burden for the gods have given you a double edge sword.

 

[Handel]

Sony bought bungie and confirmed it's games remain multiplat.

I think if MS committed to the same arrangement with ABK'a IPs, this deal is done already.

But MS are clearly trying to create a walled off gaming platform and trying to purchase a major part of the existing functional gaming market to force consumers through their doors.

The regulators are rightly concerned about the impact on consumers of this move.

Bungie - that was a change of the sign over the door and continue business as usual. ABK definitely isn't that.

The only "consumers" that might be impacted negatively by the ABK purchase are Sony only gamers. MS releases all of their games day and date with PC, the same can't be said for Sony with their limited and years after original release PC offerings. The only walled garden between MS and Sony belongs to Sony.

 

[drganon]

Activision will be fine, but SenjutsuSage will still lose a ton of money.

That's assuming it's real money and not fun bucks.

 

[X-Wing]

Private companies have the right to determine if their employees could unionize or not in America. Freedom sometimes has outcomes we don't like. Regardless MS has opened the door for unions in gaming and no other gaming company jumped in to that arena before.

Workers not being able to unionise is the opposite of freedom. But this will derail in major offtopic.

Did anyone bother to read this? Why the fuck are ms lawyers asking for personal user datas?

So they can target you with ads.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Xbox is definitely not profitable (otherwise they'd be touting its profits from the rooftops every investor call like Sony does), but it's also clearly hampered by having to work with MS's wider hiring policies and upper level management. Xbox going solo might be tough at first, but the brand equity and set of hoarded IP might bring in a buyer who's willing and able to do things Microsoft simply wouldn't.

The idiocy continues. Did you know Gamepass is in its second year of net profit? Did you know Xbox recently recorded its largest gross revenue ever? Same goes for Ninty and Sony.

The level of misinformation and wilful ignorance should no longer surprise me anymore but here we are.

 

[Edmund]

You might want to edit that before you get banned.

Whoops! Didn't know that word is banned. Will be more careful in the future. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Not sure about the previous comments, but ... for this one, it'll be on Microsoft and ABK for even considering a $70 billion merger when their competitor had a market cap of around $85 billion. Don't you think?

Laughable. MS spent approx 4% of the entire $2 Trillion gaming industry over the next decade, not even accounting for growth or inflation. Your market cap comparison is silly.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Whoops! Didn't know that word is banned. Will be more careful in the future. Thanks for the heads up!

Just stick to green rat. They're dumber than bots anyway

 

[Banjo64]

Whoops! Didn't know that word is banned. Will be more careful in the future. Thanks for the heads up!

That word isn't banned.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

For better or worse exclusivity deals are a part of the industry but no industry player except MS, has the means to buy a monopoly or manipulate the market through simple exclusivity deals.

This is a shit take and factually wrong.

Apple, Google, Tencent, Amazon, Meta. Want more? Any of them could drop 50-100 billion and not even blink.

Enough of these dumb ass takes not based in reality.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You do know that there is a curse floating above your head....Anybody you argue with will end up banned ....Be careful with that burden for the gods have given you a double edge sword.

Yeah I know I'm not immune to moderation here. I'll try and not fall on my own sword. All I'll say is that I cant control what others say only myself.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Laughable. MS spent approx 4% of the entire $2 Trillion gaming industry over the next decade, not even accounting for growth or inflation. Your market cap comparison is silly.

It is based on facts. Nintendo has a market cap of $50B. Sony has a market cap of $114B.

If MS attempts to buy ABK for $70B, of course there is a possibility that it will get blocked. Any subsequent damage to Xbox or ABK is on MS then.

 

[ToadMan]

This is a shit take and factually wrong.

Apple, Google, Tencent, Amazon, Meta. Want more? Any of them could drop 50-100 billion and not even blink.

Enough of these dumb ass takes not based in reality.

You're right. Except those companies aren't proposing to buy ABK today.

Seems like you're the one disconnected from reality.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

You're right. Except those companies aren't proposing to buy ABK today.

Seems like you're the one disconnected from reality.

Nope. Regulators look at sustained competition and ability for competitors to enter a market. All clear there.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

This is a shit take and factually wrong.

Apple, Google, Tencent, Amazon, Meta. Want more? Any of them could drop 50-100 billion and not even blink.

Enough of these dumb ass takes not based in reality.

He's not wrong.

MS has the leading cloud infrastructure, the leading gaming subscription model and the outright monopoly of Windows for the PC gaming operating system of choice. They are uniquely positioned to absolutely dominate the gaming market if there were no obstruction to their buying sprees and anti-competitive practices.

What's more, you do realize that MS is richer than all of those companies you listed, bar Apple? And in the recent past, they've even superseded Apple for the highest market cap in the world. They just posted profits of $70bn on an 'off year' ffs. Only Apple makes more.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Actually AWS is the leading cloud provider.

Sony is the leading subs player, Gamepass has faster growth in recent years.

Azure is also an open platform that supports far more than windows/ms servers/ms sql. Sony contracted Azure for cloud infrastructure too, weird.

The idoicy continues.

EDIT: sky falling too chicken little?

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Actually AWS is the leading cloud provider.

Sony is the leading subs player, Gamepass has faster growth in recent years.

Azure is also an open platform that supports far more than windows/ms servers/ms sql. Sony contracted Azure for cloud infrastructure too, weird.

The idoicy continues.

EDIT: sky falling too chicken little?

So you conveniently ignore the point about Windows, and MS being bigger than those companies you listed.

There's having the means to splash $70bn, and then there's the desire to do it. Again, MS is uniquely positioned to dominate.

EDIT: sky falling too chicken little?

Come again?

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

So you conveniently ignore the point about Windows, and MS being bigger than those companies you listed.

There's having the means to splash $70bn, and then there's the desire to do it. Again, MS is uniquely positioned to dominate.

Are you seriously trying to defend flawed statements still? Fuck me.

Windows and server market share isn't a monopoly like it used to be in the 90s, due to -

• Rise of web servers not running windows e.g. LAMP tech by Google/Amazon or educational sectors etc
• Popularity of consumers using tablets and phones e.g. Android, iOS
• Apple macbooks are sort of a big deal
• Browsers are 85% Chromium based

I could keep going but I really don't need to.

Also your company size comparison is silly, all of those companies are in the Trillions. Capital fucking T for trillions.

 

[azertydu91]

Yeah I know I'm not immune to moderation here. I'll try and not fall on my own sword. All I'll say is that I cant control what others say only myself.

Don't worry man you don't seems particularly inclined to console warring, but please do not argue with your friends here , you might throw them under the ban hammer.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Are you seriously trying to defend flawed statements still? Fuck me.

Windows and server market share isn't a monopoly like it used to be in the 90s, due to -

• Rise of web servers not running windows e.g. LAMP tech by Google/Amazon or educational sectors etc
• Popularity of consumers using tablets and phones e.g. Android, iOS
• Apple macbooks are sort of a big deal
• Browsers are 85% Chromium based

I could keep going but I really don't need to.

Also your company size comparison is silly, all of those companies are in the Trillions. Capital fucking T for trillions.

What idiocy am I reading.

I am not talking about mobile. What OS does nearly every PC gamer on the planet use?
Let me spell it out for you in capitals:

W-I-N-D-O-W-S.

And again, the size comparison isn't silly. MS has more money to spend than all of those companies bar Apple.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Don't worry man you don't seems particularly inclined to console warring, but please do not argue with your friends here , you might throw them under the ban hammer.

I'm really not the one that makes that decision but I understand what you mean. I certainly don't try to bait them into a ban. That usually happens by itself without any influence from me.

 

[DarkMage619]

Have you seen this agreement with Nintendo? Is Microsoft going to develop Call of Duty games as native ports, or would this just be via cloud gaming? If it's cloud gaming then that's how Microsoft comes out on top by having an agreement with Nintendo. It means that Nintendo Switch owners would have to pay for Game Pass in order to access cloud gaming, and that's monthly revenue for Microsoft. That deal would benefit Microsoft far more than Nintendo. This is exactly what they are trying to get with PlayStation as well. They want PlayStation to allow Game Pass and cloud gaming, not because they care about the people and want gamers to have freedom of choice, but because it would be an easy way to increase their subscription service and roll in more dough while simultaneously becoming the dominating force in the cloud gaming market.

MS has released games on other consoles previously. Have those titles been cloud only? MS has never released a cloud only title before and there is no evidence they would start now. Cloud is a feature.

With regard to Game pass on other platforms that could happen today as long as said platform had a functional web browser. As I've said earlier there is no proof that Xbox cloud gaming can even generate real profits seeing how it isn't independent, it's a feature of Ultimate.

Cloud gaming on Xbox is not a real market because it does not exist without a direct reliance on a current service. You cannot use Xbox cloud gaming without Game pass and Game pass is just an alternative to traditional retail purchases. Every game on Game pass can be purchased traditionally.

If these things were truly separate detractors wouldn't argue that Game pass is hurting retail. It couldn't hurt something if it was totally separate market. All of these things are linked together so to try and invent separate markets shows why the cases against this deal are so flimsy.

It just as bad as arguing that Nintendo exists outside of the gaming market and isn't in competition with every other console. The market definitions have been clear for years its only now during this deal that we have Nintendo not counting (yet Xbox still being third!) and Cloud and Game pass being new markets when they are all connected to the same thing: game access.

 

[azertydu91]

I'm really not the one that makes that decision but I understand what you mean. I certainly don't try to bait them into a ban. That usually happens by itself without any influence from me.

Yeah from what I remember you were just arguing with people that were making blatant lies and that were on the brink of getting a perm, it is just a coincidence.But yeah you are not baiting or anything those people inflicted this to themselves.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

MS would make games exclusive to Gamepass if they could- it's pretty clear they want that model of distribution to become the future of the industry.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

What idiocy am I reading.

I am not talking about mobile. What OS does nearly every PC gamer on the planet use?
Let me spell it out for you in capitals:

W-I-N-D-O-W-S.

And again, the size comparison isn't silly. MS has more money to spend than all of those companies bar Apple.

Mac and Chrome books aren't mobile/cell phones, they have large market shares beyond windows.

Linux, Nginx and Apache have about 33% of the web server market.

Phones and tablets have largely replaced consumer PCs for day to day things like browsing, banking, basic office shit. The default Apple and Goggle laptops and phones don't have windows or office. Apps have risen.

Does Switch or PS5 run windows? PC ain't the focus of regulators or this thread.

Enough, you don't know shit and you're off topic.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yeah from what I remember you were just arguing with people that were making blatant lies and that were on the brink of getting a perm, it is just a coincidence.But yeah you are not baiting or anything those people inflicted this to themselves.

Yes I'm definitely not trying to exterminate people like adamsapple from these forums. He does good things like those Digital Foundry summaries. But then he makes silly mistakes by constantly jabbing one side while always praising the other. It's these types of things that gets him in trouble but I'm pretty open when it comes to my preferences and I don't try to hide them.

 

[adamsapple]

I'm just randomly browsing twitter and this shows up on my timeline (I'm not even following the person who quoted the tweet).

It spits out tweets relevant to your searches/cookies, so you might not be following that person, but you're searching/reading for tweets related to it.

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

To be clear here, when I made that post, I wasn't necessarily assuming that any company would actually want to purchase the Xbox brand hardware + Xbox Live infrastructure, so if nobody like Tencent, Amazon, Electronic Arts, etc. decide that they want to acquire the Xbox hardware division from Microsoft, then the Xbox Series X|S consoles would just wither away and experience the fate of the Dreamcast, and for the online services on Xbox consoles to be summarily shut down by Microsoft with a given committed date provided as agreed to with the regulators in such a hypothetical scenario. Again, I want to emphasize that's just my prediction of what I think the CMA is going to do come next week with their provisional findings. So is that a painful price for Microsoft to pay? Of course yes, but that would be what they would have to do to obtain a mammoth-sized third party publisher that's multiple times larger than Zenimax in Activision-Blizzard-King.

Going directly up against Sony head-to-head in the high-performance console market is certainly intimidating, and I wouldn't blame other potential companies looking at a Microsoft withdrawal from that market to decide they don't want to battle Sony in that market, just as Sony gave up on the mobile, lower-powered handheld console market that Nintendo has a stone-cold lock in practically, with their last handheld being the PlayStation Vita, released in 2011. So yeah, under my prediction, if that's what the CMA + European Commission + FTC decide to go with as a major structural remedy, there's a high chance that we won't see another direct competitor to PlayStation in the high-performance console market for another 10-15 years.

Is that a terrible thing to see happen, no more Xbox and only PlayStation and Nintendo in their respective market segments for video game console market? It's certainly a controversial question I'd imagine to even posit on a video game forum website, but honestly, after seeing how well PlayStation 5 consoles sales performance were this past quarter in the crucial holiday period in the United States (Xbox's best region), I'm not sure there's any stopping PlayStation at this point from simply grabbing so much marketshare for the 9th console generation that by 2027-2028, and that they will have increased their marketshare so much globally that they'll just be considered practically invincible in the high-performance console market.

Just as regulators have to see what possible lessening of competition comes from acquisitions, they also have to see what possible lessening of competition would come from their required remedies.

Losing access to Call of Duty may lessen competition, requiring Xbox to be divested kills competition. Even if you think Microsoft would merrily divest Xbox to get ABK because it would be more profitable, there is no way a regulator in their right mind would suggest that as a remedy.

In the "high performance console market", such a remedy would give Sony a monopoly. If the CMA wants divestiture, it will be focused around Call of Duty, the only IP in this acquisition that would have a material impact on Sony in the event of an exclusivity strategy.

My guess is, rather than set a precedent with behavioral remedies, they'll pass it without remedies (while piggybacking off of what the EC gets in terms of remedies), they'll use the overwhelming positive public emails, the positive market participant letter and the smaller regulators reasonings as justification for doing so.

 

[Heisenberg007]

What idiocy am I reading.

I am not talking about mobile. What OS does nearly every PC gamer on the planet use?
Let me spell it out for you in capitals:

W-I-N-D-O-W-S.

And again, the size comparison isn't silly. MS has more money to spend than all of those companies bar Apple.

.

 

[Yoboman]

The only "consumers" that might be impacted negatively by the ABK purchase are Sony only gamers. MS releases all of their games day and date with PC, the same can't be said for Sony with their limited and years after original release PC offerings. The only walled garden between MS and Sony belongs to Sony.

Oh you mean they release it on their other platform? How generous of them

 

[Heisenberg007]

The only "consumers" that might be impacted negatively by the ABK purchase are Sony only gamers. MS releases all of their games day and date with PC, the same can't be said for Sony with their limited and years after original release PC offerings. The only walled garden between MS and Sony belongs to Sony.

Please stop making people fool.

The alternative of MS acquiring ABK is NOT Sony acquiring ABK. The alternative is that ABK remains independent and continues to publish its games across all platforms (PC/Xbox/PS/Switch) as they have been doing for decades now.

Acquiring ABK is only going to decrease the number of players ABK games are available to.