SolidQ
Member
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Game Dev "Nintendo's out here making people look like fools on hardware that's literally tenfold what the Switch is"
- Thread starter GigaBowser
- Start date
- Analysis Game Dev Hype
Mozza
Member
This comment is totally insane, but of course to be expected, some can't handle the fact Nintendo have made such an awesome game on weaker hardware.
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GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
You can tells by some of the replies why Nintendo called this masterpieces Tears of the Kingdom
Krathoon
Member
Nuts and Bolts was actually a 360 game. You could do this stuff way back then.
en.wikipedia.org
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts - Wikipedia
Boots_the_God
Member
"Puzzle" may not have been the best word but games that trust the player to take advantage of physics off the top of my head... Kerbal space program, human fall flat, little big planet, portal, rainbow six siege. Really just titles that allow players to accomplish the objective (whatever it may be) in whatever way makes the most sense to them. What I love about the early stages of the TOTK community is that people are literally going through the game solving a good amount of challenges by building extremely long bridges JUST because they can
and it works for some reason.Edit: almost forgot but special shout-out to max and the curse of the brotherhood. Early Xbox one game that had you solving puzzle using different marker powers. Super simple and kid friendly but they got creative with some of those puzzles too.
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JimRyanGOAT
Member
Modern Game Developers are just ass. And management is even worse.
they have a predictable formula and anything outside of that formula "shouldn't be possible"
TOK is Garry Mods meets Zelda (sandbox elements intertwined into the massive sprawling world of Zelda.
If you have a 100 mill + budget with access to 1000's of developers and a 5 year timeline id be shocked if the game isn't amazing
they have a predictable formula and anything outside of that formula "shouldn't be possible"
TOK is Garry Mods meets Zelda (sandbox elements intertwined into the massive sprawling world of Zelda.
If you have a 100 mill + budget with access to 1000's of developers and a 5 year timeline id be shocked if the game isn't amazing
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Mozza
Member
Yet some games with an even bigger budget, more developers and an equal amount of time, get released as a buggy broken mess.......
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
If you are going to console war, at least make it less blatantly obvious.
Zelda does nothing new, the developers just invested time and effort into making the physics a gameplay mechanic, again nothing we haven't seen before.
Most developers want to control the gameplay experience to the nth degree, and any kind of freedom for the players is seen as a hassle by the developers so they restrict, reduce or remove interesting gameplay mechanics such as physics.
M mod : how the fuck is this post console warring? It's on topic and I'm not shitting on Nintendo by saying the game doesn't do anything new, if anything I'm praising Nintendo for focusing on the physics where other developers restrict physics.
Most developers want to control the gameplay experience to the nth degree, and any kind of freedom for the players is seen as a hassle by the developers so they restrict, reduce or remove interesting gameplay mechanics such as physics.
M mod : how the fuck is this post console warring? It's on topic and I'm not shitting on Nintendo by saying the game doesn't do anything new, if anything I'm praising Nintendo for focusing on the physics where other developers restrict physics.
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UltimaKilo
Gold Member
JimRyanGOAT
Member
Cause the developers are ass, and the management is even worse
TOK knew what it wanted and executed it flawlessly
Other Modern AAA games start out with a rough draft, then they just keep adding shit halfway through development. Trying to juggle through contractors, 100's of different managers, and yadda yadda
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Fess
Member
"today"
I literally haven't touched another game since the TOTK release. Makes me wonder how many games that are still seeing dips in player numbers because of this game.
JimRyanGOAT
Member
Ok side note
If you guys have time, just please watch this video about a doom mod. Yes, 1993 Doom. The video is long, but the mod is amazing.
Just look how far a small dedicated team can go, even on an extremely old engine.
If you guys have time, just please watch this video about a doom mod. Yes, 1993 Doom. The video is long, but the mod is amazing.
Just look how far a small dedicated team can go, even on an extremely old engine.
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Worth pointing out that ToTK uses Havok too.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I said the exact same stuff at launch, but I'm nit a game dev...
Nothing comes close to this level of an achievement on a AAA release.
Nothing comes close to this level of an achievement on a AAA release.
It's not just the physics it's how it all makes sense in the world, the physics aren't there for the sake of it, they are the gameplay moment to moment experience.
The game just throws new stuff at you all the time, so much discovery.
I think that's why most people were disappointed from the Sony Showcase, it wasn't because of the graphics, it was because there was nothing innovative, all the games look the same.
The game just throws new stuff at you all the time, so much discovery.
I think that's why most people were disappointed from the Sony Showcase, it wasn't because of the graphics, it was because there was nothing innovative, all the games look the same.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Well, they sure missed a lot of duplication glitches. I can't think of a game in recent memory that has more exploits than Tears of the Kingdom.
And god bless it for that. I have 260k in Rupees.
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Gen.Grievous
Member
It just works.
Mozza
Member
I had not finished posting my comment, and hit the post button in error.
StueyDuck
Member
Eh this is definitely blown way out of proportion. It's impressive for sure but it is just physics and world interactions. These things use to exist in games in the long long ago.
I'd say RDR2 is still 1000x more of a technical achievement then totk is and it's not even close. Trying to use a horse in totk is a perfect example.
It is great they are putting physics and world interactions forward however. It can't just be Rockstar carrying the torch by themselves. More games need to be pushing these aspects of design
I'd say RDR2 is still 1000x more of a technical achievement then totk is and it's not even close. Trying to use a horse in totk is a perfect example.
It is great they are putting physics and world interactions forward however. It can't just be Rockstar carrying the torch by themselves. More games need to be pushing these aspects of design
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Nintendo is probably the only company we don't want to patch their game.
EddieVanHelgen
Banned
Right. I love nuts and bolts, genuinely. But the difference in the level of simulation between the two is like grand canyon sized. You've picked this because it involves sticking bits together to make a vehicle. Do you remember how hard it was in nuts and bolts to make something that would actually drive?Nuts and Bolts was actually a 360 game. You could do this stuff way back then.
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts - Wikipedia
Then what about all the other simulation going on? What about the interaction between fire, wind and water? What about the fact that certain materials are conductors? What about the temperature simulation? What about heat and updraft? Buoyancy? You can drop things on the floor in Totk and watch the wind blow them away.
Then what about the fact that you can exploit any one of these systems at any time in any area of the massive open world to get where you want to be or do what you want to do?
And then, what about the fact that you can attempt an infinite number of solutions and they will most likely work without the usual physics glitches?
Other games have done some of these things individually but it's never been put together in one world and made so user accessible before.
AREYOUOKAY?
Member
I can't believe they also ripped off having a misleading first trailer as well!
No rats in the final game.
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Soodanim
Member
Ignoring your undying devotion to Nintendo and the shrine you built made with of Miyomoto's discarded hair you bought on eBay, I agree with this completely.
Nintendo's true win is not pushing for flashy but shallow screenshots and trailers to justify their games. The games justify themselves. AAA developers have spent so long in the graphics race and going for cinematic blah blah that when Nintendo go balls deep with a gameplay first mentality this is what happens: surprised people that forgot it's possible. A lesser version of this happened when Elden Ring released and Ubi devs (I think) talked about the UI. Ubi level UI clutter was never needed, it's just all they know at this point. Same for gameplay over graphics. It takes a big success that breaks the new norms to remind everyone that games are there to be played first and foremost.
It's not that other devs can't do it, that's not the issue here. It's that other devs don't.
But only time will tell if it makes any difference. BOTW just made people do more open world.
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Gordon Fearman
Member
Attempting to outsmart the compiler has worked in roughly no scenarios in the past decade and somehow I doubt the lack of a for each loop, dedicated types for durations, and compile-time constants is increasing runtime performance.
Ballthyrm
Member
It is their secret weapon IMHO, they consider Q&A to be an integral part of game dev and not some gig economy type job that you can offload to a third country.
When you have senior QA that have been doing that for 10-15 years and are respected inside the company itself and not look down upon as some lesser, entry position type job, you get this type of result.
It is hard, Nintendo is good, they are putting their effort where it matters to the game.
No need to put down other developers when they have to fight for budget for everything. They usually have to get running their 4K HDR ray tracing game with hundreds of NPCs.
It always looks obvious with insight but there is no way for QA to test everything.
Let's say you have a generous 100 QA that are very good working on your game.
They work a very Japanese 60 hours every week for the 6 years of production.
As they are Japanese they won't be taking any holidays.
That gives you
100 * 60 * 52 * 6 = 1,872,000 hours os testing.
Tear of the kingdom sold 10 Millions copies already, so if everyone played 1 hours, you have tested the game 5 times more than all the QA during production.
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Release 1.0 Cyberpunk might want to have a word with you. Or The Division (2)
On a serious note, just throwing devs, money and time onto something isn't magically make it an amazing game. Same goes for other things like movies, TV shows, certain sports. Having budgets (time, money, people) is one thing, having them all working together perfectly and managing them is a different kind of task.
If you're sincere you could name dozens of games that had serious amounts of budget pouring into them and turned out maybe not complete shit but definitely not amazing either.
Fess
Member
Other AAA devs on the most modern hardwares still haven't even catched up to what BOTW was doing.
For real, every other AAA game seems limited if you look beneath the surface. I'm not even exaggerating here.
It's really the physics. You don't even have to go into the insane building freedom. Just go into your inventory and drop a piece of gear or an item or apple or whatever in BOTW and TOTK and it's an actual object with physics. Drop it on an edge and it'll fall off, drop it on water and it'll sink or it'll float depending on the material, etc.
Skyrim is doing the physics though, a 2011 game, kinda sad to have to mention an old game like that. Assumably Starfield will have real inventory objects with physics too, but there is no world physics affecting them like in BOTW/TOTK where an object will blow away in the wind if lightweight and attract thunder if metallic and burn up or get roasted with fire etc. And in almost all other AAA games it'll just be some static polygon with an outline, sometimes an item is not even polygons but a flashing dot with a 2D picture. In most cases it's really just pretty surfaces with nothing affecting anything and with a million invisible walls stopping the gamer from seeing how empty or broken it all is behind that 4K hires ray-traced hyped up surface people like to use for platform warring to hype up their favorite plastic box.
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Kumomeme
Member
no can do. just look at Spiderman 2 thread. lot of people already complaining about the visual not good enough XD
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Banjo64
cumsessed
To the people saying Nuts and Bolts is exactly the same, clearly not. Although it was a great early prototype.
Vehicle building was limited to the garage and vehicle parts (no ad-hoc creations on the fly), and the worlds were static, vast and dead with like 2 or 3 enemy types.
Actually
EddieVanHelgen
said it better 
Vehicle building was limited to the garage and vehicle parts (no ad-hoc creations on the fly), and the worlds were static, vast and dead with like 2 or 3 enemy types.
Actually
EddieVanHelgen
said it better
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Again, all good design, but it's not doing anything magical with the given hardware like the developer here suggests. Basically, as you alluded to, developers outside of Nintendo just seem to go about things in a lazier way, even in games in which physics supposedly play a large part.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
To be fair there doesn't seems to be any(?) game that resemble and make use of the physics mechanics like Zelda do, so it is going to be very hard for folks who haven't play this game to visualize what TOTK players mean.
That's why they seems to get confused and think physics = 2 objects collide together or 2 items merge together.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
These are really basic physics that we had 20 years ago? What's the big deal here?
FunkMiller
Banned
The fucking salt around here.
It is an absolute masterpiece of game design. And so far in advance of some of the shit being produced on the other consoles that it's not even funny.
It's what happens when you employ extremely talented devs, and give them the time, money and leadership to put a truly remarkable game together.
Or, you know, you can hire second rate talent, push them to meet shareholder deadlines, demand micro transactions, and not give two fucks about the player experience.
Honestly, I hope Nintendo wipes the fucking floor with Sony and MS in the coming few years. They seem to be the only ones left who care about making actual good games these days.
It is an absolute masterpiece of game design. And so far in advance of some of the shit being produced on the other consoles that it's not even funny.
It's what happens when you employ extremely talented devs, and give them the time, money and leadership to put a truly remarkable game together.
Or, you know, you can hire second rate talent, push them to meet shareholder deadlines, demand micro transactions, and not give two fucks about the player experience.
Honestly, I hope Nintendo wipes the fucking floor with Sony and MS in the coming few years. They seem to be the only ones left who care about making actual good games these days.
BabyYoda
Banned
Actually, that was a XB360 game, I'm surprised it took another developer so long honestly.
farmerboy
Member
Exactly.
Dreams also.
Granted, Dreams wasn't a game per se, but its level of complexity was enormous.
Look, TotK is no doubt a great game. Amazing even. But I'm getting tired of games being proclaimed as the 2nd coming of Christ.
BabyYoda
Banned
You weren't limited to the garage, but you were limited to parts you'd collected, you couldn't use items in the world you found lying around.To the people saying Nuts and Bolts is exactly the same, clearly not. Although it was a great early prototype.
Vehicle building was limited to the garage and vehicle parts (no ad-hoc creations on the fly), and the worlds were static, vast and dead with like 2 or 3 enemy types.
Actually
It's sad Rare didn't take that idea and run with it, but the poor sales of N&B's clearly traumatised them...they learned the wrong lesson from that failure. The game had some excellent ideas. But it should've been a spinoff or a new ip, fans deserved a proper platformer.
Now a new open world B&K where platforming is the main focus, but you can make all sorts of weapons, buildings, platforms and vehicles on the fly, that would be sweet and I would lap that right up!
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Neff
Member
TotK started off as BotW DLC. They kept adding so much stuff and came up with so many new ideas that they decided to turn it into a full priced sequel.
This. The game should be chock-full of errors, conflicts and bugs considering what it's attempting. Yet at all times it's incredibly robust, intuitive and user-friendly. It really is an engineering miracle.
Banjo64
cumsessed
In order to build or add parts to your vehicle you had to be inside the garage.
If a part fell off your vehicle during gameplay, you could hold the wrench button to reattach everything, but you couldn't add a fresh part without being in the garage.
(from memory).
farmerboy
Member
This is what it is.
The physics are arbitrary. Not really physics at all, but physical rules the game abides by without fail.
What the game does is allow you to use these rules in interesting situations, with the rules themselves allowing for a myriad of solutions.
Very fun stuff.