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[Godot25]

So private companies can exploit the loopholes in the law to stonewall government regulation, but regulators are held to an higher standard than the law itself?

Nah. Microsoft have not broken any law but neither did FTC.

It's easy. FTC chose time to ask for PI to build pressure on Microsoft to drop the deal since they knew that end of merger agreement is close. But they also knew that Microsoft would try to persuade judge that there is no need for PI and they need to close because of expiration of merger agreement. It backfired on FTC. Nothing more, nothing less.

Also. You kinda have to prove that Microsoft 100% knew that they would not be able to close in OG date. And good luck with that since they already courted CMA for new deal.

 

[Kilau]

Congratulations are in order. The lawyers for MS masterfully engineered victory from defeat. They turned the FTC and CMA cooperation back around on them. MS has made a big deal of the number of countries and the size of the population they represent that approved the deal but that their biggest markets blocked it and they still won is a major achievement.

Lawyers, bravo.

 

[Pipoqueiro]

 

[Topher]

Congratulations are in order. The lawyers for MS masterfully engineered victory from defeat. They turned the FTC and CMA cooperation back around on them. MS has made a big deal of the number of countries and the size of the population they represent that approved the deal but that their biggest markets blocked it and they still won is a major achievement.

Lawyers, bravo.

If government regulators really want to take on trillion dollar corporations then they should probably rethink utilizing in-house counsel.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Congratulations are in order. The lawyers for MS masterfully engineered victory from defeat. They turned the FTC and CMA cooperation back around on them. MS has made a big deal of the number of countries and the size of the population they represent that approved the deal but that their biggest markets blocked it and they still won is a major achievement.

Lawyers, bravo.

Win or lose, lawyers always win with their thousands of dollars an hour billed.

 

[GHG]

I kind of wonder if both FTC and CMA were somewhat lost on this case because they don't know the gaming industry... so they colluded deciding one would take console angle and the other take the cloud angle that way they both had something specific to focus on. Once CMA saw FTC get flattened in court they were probably worried about being dragged through the mud by Microsoft high power lawyers so backed down? I mean FTC couldn't make the console angle work which should have been easier... cloud angle is a big "what if" scenario. Who knows?

No chance. Thats not how the CMA operates. They retain industry specific subject matter experts to help steer them on every deal they have to investigate, they can more than afford to do so. Their understanding of the industry was more than evident in the documentation that they have made public throughout the process.

The FTC on the other hand made it clear that they didn't have a clue what they were doing, but they are horribly underfunded so that was to be expected.

Microsoft more than met their match in the UK and I really don't think they expected it given the tantrums at the time of the verdict.

 

[adamsapple]

Congratulations are in order. The lawyers for MS masterfully engineered victory from defeat. They turned the FTC and CMA cooperation back around on them. MS has made a big deal of the number of countries and the size of the population they represent that approved the deal but that their biggest markets blocked it and they still won is a major achievement.

Lawyers, bravo.

Beth Wilkinson and Lord Beard won the acquisition for Microsoft, can't deny.

 

[Schmick]

Extended until October? I'm out. I don't want to deal with speculation for another three months.

Many have speculated that this deal will be closed a lot sooner than three months.

 

[Topher]

Win or lose, lawyers always win with their thousands of dollars an hour billed.

Buddy of mine years ago was a DUI defense lawyer. He said every now and then local police would initiate a "DUI crack down". "Music to my ears" he said.

 

[HoofHearted]

Just make sure the Frothy Drink clause remains intact..

 

[gothmog]

No doubt FTC got played like a fiddle in all this

MS lawyers deserve all the megabucks money they are getting paid because they managed to completely change the course of this case with a friggin injunction ruling

Comical how incompetent and powerless regulators are to these gigacorps

Sure. But that's a trick you typically can only play once. Never underestimate a team that has been embarrassed. They now know how a repeat will play out and also have the administrative court to rehearse any round 2 in Federal court.

 

[Topher]

Just make sure the Frothy Drink clause remains intact..

I hearby delegate Ass of Can Whooping as my Executor of the Froth.....

 

[NickFire]

No doubt FTC got played like a fiddle in all this

MS lawyers deserve all the megabucks money they are getting paid because they managed to completely change the course of this case with a friggin injunction ruling

Comical how incompetent and powerless regulators are to these gigacorps

Don't dismiss the possibility that FTC played itself solely because they wanted the optics of a win that CMA had already secured (if clock ran out).

 

[Timberwolf25]

The reason the PI was so important and critical is had it been granted, the FTC could've gone into a long glacial loophole of delays therefore killing the deal.
The FTC with taxpayer dollars has no reason to expedite approval of something they are clearly against regardless of whether it would be legal or not.
It's why both MS and ABK said if it was granted the deal was dead.

Neither MS or ABK lied about that.

 

[Punished Miku]

I kind of wonder if both FTC and CMA were somewhat lost on this case because they don't know the gaming industry... so they colluded deciding one would take console angle and the other take the cloud angle that way they both had something specific to focus on. Once CMA saw FTC get flattened in court they were probably worried about being dragged through the mud by Microsoft high power lawyers so backed down? I mean FTC couldn't make the console angle work which should have been easier... cloud angle is a big "what if" scenario. Who knows?

I don't find that plausible either. We know for sure they backed down prior to the decision, because they tweeted about August 29th almost immediately following the ruling - which means they already worked out something with MS and did a 180 on their block. Wonder why? It was literally spelled out if people just read it.

Will Microsoft leave the UK? Brad Smith meets with the government over Activision takeover

The controversy surrounding the nearly $70 billion giant continues. In Redmond, even the most extreme options are being considered.

en.as.com

Microsoft could pull Activision Blizzard from the UK market

A new report has alleged Microsoft could consider pulling Activision Blizzard from the UK market to bypass a CMA deal blockage.

www.gameshub.com

Microsoft ‘could withdraw Activision from the UK’ to counter acquisition block, it’s claimed | VGC

Microsoft’s president is reportedly set to meet with government ministers next week…

www.videogameschronicle.com

UK government was made aware that MS had extreme measures in place if the PI fails and CMA is all that's left. These must have been real, because it was enough to flip the CMA and get them to reconsider their approach. The president of MS was saying this publicly. The only counterpoint is that people here plug their ears and say "nahhh, against a whole country!? yeah right. MS probably bought and paid for all the regulators instead. It can't be the thing that's been publicly said by top people at MS. It must be secret corruption."

 

[feynoob]

Congratulations are in order. The lawyers for MS masterfully engineered victory from defeat. They turned the FTC and CMA cooperation back around on them. MS has made a big deal of the number of countries and the size of the population they represent that approved the deal but that their biggest markets blocked it and they still won is a major achievement.

Lawyers, bravo.

Never fk with lawyers.
These MTF know the game very well.

 

[splattered]

Don't dismiss the possibility that FTC played itself solely because they wanted the optics of a win that CMA had already secured (if clock ran out).

That's a really great point...

 

[adamsapple]

I hearby delegate Ass of Can Whooping as my Executor of the Froth.....

He's been quiet, I think hes psyching himself up for the shake

 

[HoofHearted]

See now I'm nervous. You've done this before. Getting performance anxiety.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I don't find that plausible either. We know for sure they backed down prior to the decision, because they tweeted about August 29th almost immediately following the ruling - which means they already worked out something with MS and did a 180 on their block. Wonder why? It was literally spelled out if people just read it.

Will Microsoft leave the UK? Brad Smith meets with the government over Activision takeover

The controversy surrounding the nearly $70 billion giant continues. In Redmond, even the most extreme options are being considered.

en.as.com

Microsoft could pull Activision Blizzard from the UK market

A new report has alleged Microsoft could consider pulling Activision Blizzard from the UK market to bypass a CMA deal blockage.

www.gameshub.com

Microsoft ‘could withdraw Activision from the UK’ to counter acquisition block, it’s claimed | VGC

Microsoft’s president is reportedly set to meet with government ministers next week…

www.videogameschronicle.com

UK government was made aware that MS had extreme measures in place if the PI fails and CMA is all that's left. These must have been real, because it was enough to flip the CMA and get them to reconsider their approach. The president of MS was saying this publicly. The only counterpoint is that people here plug their ears and say "nahhh, against a whole country!? yeah right. MS probably bought and paid for all the regulators instead. It can't be the thing that's been publicly said by top people at MS. It must be secret corruption."

Those articles are what we call, classic FUD. MS is all too familiar about manufacturing that into the PR ether.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I don't find that plausible either. We know for sure they backed down prior to the decision, because they tweeted about August 29th almost immediately following the ruling - which means they already worked out something with MS and did a 180 on their block. Wonder why? It was literally spelled out if people just read it.

Will Microsoft leave the UK? Brad Smith meets with the government over Activision takeover

The controversy surrounding the nearly $70 billion giant continues. In Redmond, even the most extreme options are being considered.

en.as.com

Microsoft could pull Activision Blizzard from the UK market

A new report has alleged Microsoft could consider pulling Activision Blizzard from the UK market to bypass a CMA deal blockage.

www.gameshub.com

Microsoft ‘could withdraw Activision from the UK’ to counter acquisition block, it’s claimed | VGC

Microsoft’s president is reportedly set to meet with government ministers next week…

www.videogameschronicle.com

UK government was made aware that MS had extreme measures in place if the PI fails and CMA is all that's left. These must have been real, because it was enough to flip the CMA and get them to reconsider their approach. The president of MS was saying this publicly. The only counterpoint is that people here plug their ears and say "nahhh, against a whole country!? yeah right. MS probably bought and paid for all the regulators instead. It can't be the thing that's been publicly said by top people at MS. It must be secret corruption."

You are implying that MS forced the CMA not by reason but by coercion.

Is this what we cheer for these days?

 

[Topher]

I don't find that plausible either. We know for sure they backed down prior to the decision, because they tweeted about August 29th almost immediately following the ruling - which means they already worked out something with MS and did a 180 on their block. Wonder why? It was literally spelled out if people just read it.

Will Microsoft leave the UK? Brad Smith meets with the government over Activision takeover

The controversy surrounding the nearly $70 billion giant continues. In Redmond, even the most extreme options are being considered.

en.as.com

Microsoft could pull Activision Blizzard from the UK market

A new report has alleged Microsoft could consider pulling Activision Blizzard from the UK market to bypass a CMA deal blockage.

www.gameshub.com

Microsoft ‘could withdraw Activision from the UK’ to counter acquisition block, it’s claimed | VGC

Microsoft’s president is reportedly set to meet with government ministers next week…

www.videogameschronicle.com

UK government was made aware that MS had extreme measures in place if the PI fails and CMA is all that's left. These must have been real, because it was enough to flip the CMA and get them to reconsider their approach. The president of MS was saying this publicly. The only counterpoint is that people here plug their ears and say "nahhh, against a whole country!? yeah right. MS probably bought and paid for all the regulators instead. It can't be the thing that's been publicly said by top people at MS. It must be secret corruption."

Those were nothing but rumors that came out of MLex via Idas. Entirely baseless.

 

[GHG]

The reason the PI was so important and critical is had it been granted, the FTC could've gone into a long glacial loophole of delays therefore killing the deal.
The FTC with taxpayer dollars has no reason to expedite approval or something they are clearly against regardless of whether it would be legal or not.
It's why both MS and ABK said if it was granted the deal was dead.

Neither MS or ABK lied about that.

What they lied about was the urgency of the deadline to the judge, ensuring her ruling and accompanying report was rushed (even by her own admission).

And to be fair, they are within their rights to exert pressure and urgency where necessary, the onus was actually on the judge to withstand that. We now have examples of two contrasting judges in that regard, one that completely bent over, and the other that in no uncertain terms told Microsoft to get fucked with regards to the 18th. If Corley had acted similarly to the CAT judge the outcome would have been the same regardless, she was silly to not afford herself the appropriate time.

 

[Punished Miku]

You are implying that MS forced the CMA not by reason but by coercion.

Is this what we cheer for these days?

I'm not implying anything. I'm stating that it's obvious it's the only thing that makes sense. And I don't care what anyone else celebrates. MS clearly would rather work with the CMA as we see with this extension. CMA had to be a good faith actor that was willing to discuss remedies though, and now they are.

 

[Kilau]

Those articles are what we call, classic FUD. MS is all too familiar about manufacturing that into the PR ether.

Is MS following the political party playbook or are they following MS?

 

[DrFigs]

streaming & the loss of physical media is maybe the worst thing to have happened to these companies. and it's not clear it's been great for consumers. very disheartening if this is the future of videogames

 

[GHG]

CMA had to be a good faith actor that was willing to discuss remedies though, and now they are.

They always were but Microsoft refused at every opportunity.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is MS following the political party playbook or are they following MS?

Both. It's all one in the same now. Especially when lobbyists, politicians and board of directors with said promised positions in that "private sector" after your lobbied political career is over with.

 

[Pipoqueiro]

streaming & the loss of physical media is maybe the worst thing to have happened to these companies. and it's not clear it's been great for consumers. very disheartening if this is the future of videogames

It is difficult for a regulatory body to argue that a decrease in profit and subsidy to consumers is bad for a judge, but for me this is clearly bad for the consumer in the medium and long term

 

[TGO]

I thought this was done and dusted
why has this been paused for 2 months?

 

[Timberwolf25]

What they lied about was the urgency of the deadline to the judge, ensuring her ruling and accompanying report was rushed (even by her own admission).

And to be fair, they are within their rights to exert pressure and urgency where necessary, the onus was actually on the judge to withstand that. We now have examples of two contrasting judges in that regard, one that completely bent over, and the other that in no uncertain terms told Microsoft to get fucked with regards to the 18th. If Corley had acted similarly to the CAT judge the outcome would have been the same regardless, she was silly to not afford herself the appropriate time.

Had the PI been granted, deal would've been dead. MS and ABK do not want a protracted process for closing.

The PI was denied, CMA and MS immediately came together to discuss a resolution. MS and ABK feels that it is close enough to their original deadline and are optimistic it will close.
Phil in his email earlier in the thread even says they could "technically close". MS probably would've closed if the CMA continued to object to it. MS would then have to fight it out throught the CAT.

A small delay with the UK compared to a what a lot legal experts have argued would've been a very long process with the FTC is a hell of a difference.
Many people in this thread was rooting for the PI to be granted because they knew it would kill the deal, but now all of a sudden have amnesia and say MS/ABK lied about the urgency of it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They always were but Microsoft refused at every opportunity.

Just like MS is sending into the PR that "bringing more games to more players everywhere." they repeat the lie enough over and over, they convince their base that if this deal falls through, it will be less games for less gamers (mainly them.) When in reality, nothing really changes. At all. Actually less consumers benefit (like Bethesda) if it does go through. It's all marketing (a false) narrative, you see.

 

[Topher]

He's been quiet, I think hes psyching himself up for the shake

He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
He's choking, how? Everybody's joking now
The clock's run out, time's up, over—blaow!

 

[GHG]

Had the PI been granted, deal would've been dead. MS and ABK do not want a protracted process for closing.

The PI was denied, CMA and MS immediately came together to discuss a resolution. MS and ABK feels that it is close enough to their original deadline and are optimistic it will close.
Phil in his email earlier in the thread even says they could "technically close". MS probably would've closed if the CMA continued to object to it. MS would then have to fight it out throught the CAT.

A small delay with the UK compared to a what a lot legal experts have argued would've been a very long process with the FTC is a hell of a difference.
Many in people in this thread was rooting for the PI to be granted because they knew it would kill the deal, but now all of a sudden have amnesia and say MS/ABK lied about the urgency of it.

To be clear - I'm not talking about the PI being granted or not in that post you're quoting. That is inconsequential to the subject I'm touching on.

I'm talking about them stating they needed a decision from the judge ASAP regarding her ruling on the PI. During the closing statement she even stated that the rulings for these kinds of cases can typically take a couple of months but in the end she was willing to do it in the matter of a week. In contrast, the CAT judge stated he would not be rushed, and would only be willing to adhere to time frames that are appropriate, necessary and suit him (he mentioned satisfaction a lot in reference to this) to ensure his judgement and ruling cannot be called into question. He was more concerned about doing his job correctly and his own reputation, not the eventual outcome of the deal, which is the correct thing to do.

 

[AJUMP23]

I hope the guy that made PITFALL really gets a nice payout in this deal. An ATARI great.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I hope the guy that made PITFALL really gets a nice payout in this deal. An ATARI great.

David Crane?

"The guy..." lol

 

[AJUMP23]

David Crane?

"The guy..." lol

I didn't want to look it up. But that game is a masterpiece.

 

[Deleted member 848825]

Nah, real deal here matey. XSX PS5 and PC. Platform agnostic. Genuine opinion. So sniff away hound dog.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Just like MS is sending into the PR that "bringing more games to more players everywhere." they repeat the lie enough over and over, they convince their base that if this deal falls through, it will be less games for less gamers (mainly them.) When in reality, nothing really changes. At all. Actually less consumers benefit (like Bethesda) if it does go through. It's all marketing (a false) narrative, you see.

Well.. I would argue by saying they don't lie when they say less games for gamers. .... because I always feel like they are talking about gamepass. So no deal = leas games on game pass for gamers etc. When they say gamers. I am pretty sure they are talking about gamepass and xbox gamers. Not ps and switch lol( unless I missed your point )

Xbox as brand name doesn't mean much to MS outside of hardware level to leverage game pass that MS owns.

I always think of MS as a software and service Company more than a hardware level. Not saying they don't have any. But their focus is always on software.
And subscription base. Office 365 / windows / server license / game pass. Etc

So yeah they didn't really lie per say.

Also, I am almost positive that MS would revive few IPs under their name that current publisher won't due to risk to success ratio. Where I do not see this a big problem with MS.
Imagine Pitfall game like uncharted for example ? Or new spyro game since irs been ages since the last proper sequel etc

 

[Timberwolf25]

To be clear - I'm not talking about the PI being granted or not in that post you're quoting. That is inconsequential to the subject I'm touching on.

I'm talking about them stating they needed a decision from the judge ASAP regarding her ruling on the PI. During the closing statement she even stated that the rulings for these kinds of cases can typically take a couple of months but in the end she was willing to do it in the matter of a week. In contrast, the CAT judge stated he would not be rushed, and would only be willing to adhere to time frames that are appropriate, necessary and suit him (he mentioned satisfaction a lot in reference to this) to ensure his judgement and ruling cannot be called into question. He was more concerned about doing his job correctly and his own reputation, not the eventual outcome of the deal, which is the correct thing to do.

But we were talking about whether MS or ABK lied about the urgency of the ruling needed. They are connected because the PI is the failure point for the deal, not that the CMA doesn't matter, because MS/ABK had a way around that.

ABK/MS would've closed the deal in the US prior to the deadline. The FTC chose to file a PI to prevent it. Had it been granted, both MS/ABK knew that it would result in the FTC delaying the deal for months/years. It was extremely urgent this didn't happen.

The CMA seeing the writing on the wall that MS was going to close the deal, agreed (speculation) to some sort of resolution. MS/ABK optimistic that a deal is very close to being approved in the UK agrees to short delay.

None of this would've happened if the PI was granted. It was urgent....they didn't lie is my point.

 

[IntentionalPun]

UK government was made aware that MS had extreme measures in place if the PI fails and CMA is all that's left.

This is a bunch of crap IMO. All you posted was articles mentioning a rumor.

CMA would never have believed that possible, like MS would never leave the UK.

It was always just media crap to get people reading articles.

 

[Timberwolf25]

I haven't watched this yet, but it might be interesting.

 

[GHG]

But we were talking about whether MS or ABK lied about the urgency of the ruling needed. They are connected because the PI is the failure point for the deal, not that the CMA doesn't matter, because MS/ABK had a way around that.

ABK/MS would've closed the deal in the US prior to the deadline. The FTC chose to file a PI to prevent it. Had it been granted, both MS/ABK knew that it would result in the FTC delaying the deal for months/years. It was extremely urgent this didn't happen.

The CMA seeing the writing on the wall that MS was going to close the deal, agreed (speculation) to some sort of resolution. MS/ABK optimistic that a deal is very close to being approved in the UK agrees to short delay.

None of this would've happened if the PI was granted. It was urgent....they didn't lie is my point.

Again, what I'm referring to has nothing to do with the outcome of the PI.

Things would be no different now if they were still waiting on the PI ruling. A deal extension would have been necessary and they would have been able to get one due to things very much still being in a state of flux.

The US judge bent over backwards for them and made a rushed decsion/report when she didn't need to, the UK CAT judge refused to fall into the same pitfall. The end.

 

[Solidus_T]

Also, I am almost positive that MS would revive few IPs under their name that current publisher won't due to risk to success ratio. Where I do not see this a big problem with MS.
Imagine Pitfall game like uncharted for example ? Or new spyro game since irs been ages since the last proper sequel etc

Pure speculation based on nothing but fan hype. MS would likely not revive any old game series for the same reason ABK hasn't. For example, I've seen the twitter people saying a Banko Kazooie Crash and Spyro crossover will happen now, but MS has not done anything with Banjo Kazooie.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Again, what I'm referring to has nothing to do with the outcome of the PI.

Things would be no different now if they were still waiting on the PI ruling. A deal extension would have been necessary and they would have been able to get one due to things very much still being in a state of flux.

I'm saying they are connected, but will concede we will not see it the same way.

 

[AlphaDump]

Will any of the facts that spilled out from the FTC case be incorporated into the final review by the CMA, or is it just boiling down to concessions between ms/actv at this point to push the agreement through?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Pure speculation based on nothing but fan hype. MS would likely not revive any old game series for the same reason ABK hasn't. For example, I've seen the twitter people saying a Banko Kazooie Crash and Spyro crossover will happen now, but MS has not done anything with Banjo Kazooie.

I dunno, with MS throwing a massive budget at a stupid Perfect Dark reboot they probably are more likely to fund a bad decision like a re-boot of some dumb old game series lol

 

[Timberwolf25]

Will any of the facts that spilled out from the FTC case be incorporated into the final review by the CMA, or is it just boiling down to concessions between ms/actv at this point to push the agreement through?

I think any concessions will be cloud related.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Pure speculation based on nothing but fan hype. MS would likely not revive any old game series for the same reason ABK hasn't. For example, I've seen the twitter people saying a Banko Kazooie Crash and Spyro crossover, but MS has not done anything with Banjo Kazooie.

True. Of course it's just speculation. But I just guess it has higher chances due to big amount of devs are being added and more flexible budget.
I do not see banjo game coming up because to me rare is almost dead. So maybe fresh talent from this merger might join in to revive some games. Who really knows at this point what is going to happen.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well.. I would argue by saying they don't lie when they say less games for gamers. .... because I always feel like they are talking about gamepass. So no deal = leas games on game pass for gamers etc. When they say gamers. I am pretty sure they are talking about gamepass and xbox gamers. Not ps and switch lol( unless I missed your point )