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[John Wick]

Huh

That sounds exactly like Spencer the liar

 

[John Wick]

Right, me and many industry professionals, we we all gullible and dumb. You are the smart one. The reality is none of us really knew for sure, your smokescreen doesn't change anything. I bought one day one, and have enjoyed it a lot.
Makes zero change to how the world actually saw it, despite your rose collored glasses.

Eurogamer was asking question like this in thier own articles, but ya, everyone thought it was going to be perfect from day one. (insert giant roll eyes here)
"On the face of it, PlayStation 5 delivers a ton of power, but there does seem to be an extra onus on developers to optimise to these new characteristics. The question is, what happens when the processor does hit its power limit and components down-clock?"

This response is fantastic. It seems Cerny and Sony just cobbled the PS5 together and just hoped for the best?
The same thing as when Xbox developers target XSX performance then realise they still have to run the game on the XSS......... Remember XSS is every feature as XSX but at 1440P.

 

[Sethbacca]

Does anyone know how he calculates the extra 30%? Not TFlops.

Probably using the old 9tf rumors and dividing 3 into it (12tf - 9tf) instead of using 10tf dividing 2 into it. They're presenting the power advantage as a percentage of the weaker console baseline instead of saying that the PS5 has 84% of the power of XSX since it sounds better.

That's the only way I can see this making sense anyway.

 

[Lysandros]

Probably using the old 9tf rumors and dividing 3 into it (12tf - 9tf) instead of using 10tf dividing 2 into it. They're presenting the power advantage as a percentage of the weaker console baseline instead of saying that the PS5 has 84% of the power of XSX since it sounds better.

That's the only way I can see this making sense anyway.

That wouldn't be true either. Teraflop advantage ≠ Power advantage.

 

[Sethbacca]

That wouldn't be true either. Teraflop advantage ≠ Power advantage.

I'm not saying it's true I'm just saying it's the only way the math works as presented.

 

[Dick Jones]

They 100% look at forums and hear the noise, have heard them talk about things said on this forum

They know of the legend of Kretos and Green Rats.

Also found was Phil Spencer's email to Jim Ryan after seeing Cerny's Road to PS5 video.

Jim,
You know they say that all console manufacturers are created equal, but you look at MS and you look at Sony and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another console manufacturer, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a multi-trillion dollar company and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beating MS. Then you add Nintendo to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way this console generation, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Nintendo knows it can't beat MS and they're not even gonna try!
So Sony, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning this console gen. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning this console gen. See Jim Ryan, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you this console gen.

 

[CitizenKratos]

It's called math. 9 something TF to 12 something TF. Almost 3 TF difference. So basically around 30% from 9 to 12.

I guess you mean it's called bad math? Should be around 18%.

 

[Hestar69]

It's not the dramatized ps/xb battle. That is some ford vs chevy stuff. But there's enough overlap for the other three to be stealing users from each other.

The rumblings of switch 2 all point to something that is trying to keep up with contemporary ports. Kotick said they would want to get cod on switch. Console players are noticing steam deck. Sony is using steam as their entry point to pc gaming, co-mingling the communities a bit and enticing them with an alternative to an expensive new build. Also their end point as they've gone right into valve's embrace.

My friend was just putting together a so-so pc build that was adding up and he said, "shit should I just save a bunch of money and headache and get a PS5." He didn't, but he was serious.

What about the case of the multi-platform player? A kid has a switch for two years but now he's in 6th grade and prefers to play apex on the laptop. Nintendo sold a console but they lost the user anyway. I myself use PS5, switch, and steam. That switch chills there unless we're playing Zelda. Meanwhile, Steam and PS5 get money from me buying more than I can play. The PS5 also gets the online fee which is money I could have spent on steam. I have that switch but I'm not buying games and I never used it much.

I realize the competition I'm describing is not the same as the xb vs ps rivalry. But in the big picture, a lot of that is drama. The pressure on Sony will be different, but if they were slacking off, normies will absolutely cross shop with Nintendo and pc. They just want to play games.

Normies are not necessarily seeing these categories we project onto the platforms. They are more likely choose one or another simply based on what their friends use.

Thing is most causals would rather buy a ps5 or xbox over making a pc as some of the prices are crazy. I want to upgrade my 1080ti and graphic card prices are wild.

At the end of the day all I want it competition for sony and only one I see giving them that is xbox

 

[Liljagare]

For most of us, it is still about the games.

Platform with the best games will be the one with most customer supporting it.

Though I don't get the mobile phone market at all, lol.

 

[StereoVsn]

I guess you mean it's called bad math? Should be around 18%.

No, it's perfectly fine math. From 9TB to 12TB it's about 33% (3/9). It's a bit less since it's not a clean 9 and 12.

You are looking in reverse but that's not what's being discussed. So yes, it's just math.

 

[Moses85]

Bruh, theses leaks with the MS exec reactions are comedy gold.

Brb grabbing some popcorn before reading that leaked email.

Yes, absolutely.

 

[midasmulligan]

and here they thought *anyone* would have a performance advantage, or performance at all, until....developers started baking in RT into their console code! RT--the great equalizer

 

[anothertech]

It's like MrX didn't die out in 2012. Holy shit.

 

[cartman414]

Think about the difference in leadership and decision-making.

You can absolutely guarantee Sony considered two different schema for PS5 just like this and either at the engineer level or the executive level that decision was tossed in favor of one schema one with and one without a disc drive.

The pressure on Microsoft led to bad decision-making. "We need to seriously undercut Sony on price" but in reality undercutting the PS5 Digital by 100 isn't the win anyone could think it is...

My advice for people in almost any line of work is stack good decisions on top of each other and the rest of it will probably work itself out at the end of the day. Making bad decisions for the right reasons doesn't usually work out.

Exactly. Sony did it right. Evidently they knew the $299 price point could wait. The customers would still come.

MS could shave $50 off a $399 opening price a little down the line if they still struggled against Sony.

That new leaked mid-refresh of them sticking with the same Series S specs hurts to look at. I wouldn't be surprised if the leak was intentional for the free feedback.

 

[Kamina]

I'm pretty sure he posts here under an alias, or at the very least, reads here.

Bo_Hazem

 

[Kenneth Haight]

"We haven't won anything" - no lies detected

 

[sendit]

Huh

That is embarrassing, I would delete my account.

 

[Crayon]

Thing is most causals would rather buy a ps5 or xbox over making a pc as some of the prices are crazy. I want to upgrade my 1080ti and graphic card prices are wild.

At the end of the day all I want it competition for sony and only one I see giving them that is xbox

Oh, no those casuals don't build. In my experience, they almost always play on a laptop. I've seen some use as an excuse to buy a new laptop lol.

Actually know someone just last week, him and his wife were gifted laptops by a generous friend explicitly to play some online game together. I don't think building a machine even crossed their minds.

 

[Hestar69]

Oh, no those casuals don't build. In my experience, they almost always play on a laptop. I've seen some use as an excuse to buy a new laptop lol.

Actually know someone just last week, him and his wife were gifted laptops by a generous friend explicitly to play some online game together. I don't think building a machine even crossed their minds.

yeahhhhhhhhhh,my friend got one last year and he says it gets so hot when he plays pubg on it.. I would rather have a desktop buy ig laptops are easier for ppl

 

[Crayon]

yeahhhhhhhhhh,my friend got one last year and he says it gets so hot when he plays pubg on it.. I would rather have a desktop buy ig laptops are easier for ppl

Yeah I wouldn't touch one, but a lot of people forget desktops even exist. For everyday light work, laptops are where it's at.

Casuals of course aren't going to get a gaming laptop, either. They're going to get something decent with a 3060 or something like that. Or less. Kids will play on whatever is laying around. Most will run your apex, fortnite, minecraft, league, etc. Remember, sea if thieves includes a 15 FPS mode!

 

[Gamer79]

Huh

 

[jroc74]

I glanced at this thread title a few times..and it just hit me....


30%??

 

[DeepEnigma]

I glanced at this thread title a few times..and it just hit me....


30%??

Now you know where some of the FUD came from as they pushed the 9.2 BS

 

[Crayon]

Now you know where some of the FUD came from as they pushed the 9.2 BS

It's so crazy that they're saying that internally. They could have just asked someone who would know what they're talking about.

This is one of the most interesting thing about these leaks. It's like Spencer himself is reading Xbox era while nodding along.

Maybe they do start these rumors and they have a policy of just treating it like it's the truth when they talk about it. But I'm starting to think some of the fud pushes start in the community and go the other way. Just from the way they are talking here, it's a possibility.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's so crazy that they're saying that internally. They could have just asked someone who would know what they're talking about.

This is one of the most interesting thing about these leaks. It's like Spencer himself is reading Xbox era while nodding along.

Maybe they do start these rumors and they have a policy of just treating it like it's the truth when they talk about it. But I'm starting to think some of the fud pushes start in the community and go the other way. Just from the way they are talking here, it's a possibility.

FUDception, but no.

We had an Albert Penello here that showed shit started with them.

 

[THE DUCK]

This response is fantastic. It seems Cerny and Sony just cobbled the PS5 together and just hoped for the best?
The same thing as when Xbox developers target XSX performance then realise they still have to run the game on the XSS......... Remember XSS is every feature as XSX but at 1440P.

Nobody said that, it was just a break from a more conventional design leaving more questions than normal. Not sure why you are bringing XSS into it, has absolutely zero to do with what people were saying about PS5.
Plus every console in the world, since the inception of time failed to hit the PR targets on the box. How many 8k games you seen lately? Even 4k at 60hz on PS5 and Series X, if you really want to play that dumb game.
Meanwhile here in reality, developers are making version of games for PC specs for almost ever game, which is well below spec of any of the consoles, making everything you are saying even more pointless.

 

[Crayon]

FUDception, but no.

We had an Albert Penello here that showed shit started with them.

Definitely most of it does. But there could be some cases where they see a rumor or talking point spreading online and think it's legit because wishful thinking. I don't know how else they're sitting around like this talking about their stuff being 30% faster when they have no way to know.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Huh

Never going to live that down, not one of the better marching orders sent down the pipeline

 

[DeepEnigma]

Definitely most of it does. But there could be some cases where they see a rumor or talking point spreading online and think it's legit because wishful thinking. I don't know how else they're sitting around like this talking about their stuff being 30% faster when they have no way to know.

MS owns Github. Those Xbox shills on social media who were dropping hints that "something was coming," learned in the discord that those same exec's hung out in, including DFs Alex, knew about the Github "leak" before it was released to Github. A MS owned service. They just didn't know that the chip stats they leaked at the time, wasn't it's full feature set. Hence the FUD being pushed of 30% and no hardware RT.

9.2 would be 30%

10.3 is 18%

Other feature sets have them trading blows.

The more leaks that come out, make the smoke thicker.

 

[skit_data]

How many 8k games you seen lately?

C'mon that part is just the ability of outputting a 8k signal.
This has been around since at least the PS3 gen and I've never seen anybody equate that with the actual internal res before this gen.

 

[DeepEnigma]

C'mon that part is just the ability of outputting a 8k signal.
This has been around since at least the PS3 gen and I've never seen anybody equate that with the actual internal res before this gen.

In the world of AI upscaling like DLSS, checkerboard TAA solutions, all being CHAMPIONED by gamers and tech sites (like DF)... keep your eyes on the shitspreaders that want to now all of a sudden focus on native res in attempts to FUDucate select brands... like the stooges at DF tried doing in the PS5Pro video. Clowns.

 

[jroc74]

MS owns Github. Those Xbox shills on social media who were dropping hints that "something was coming," learned in the discord that those same exec's hung out in, including DFs Alex, knew about the Github "leak" before it was released to Github. A MS owned service. They just didn't know that the chip stats they leaked at the time, wasn't it's full feature set. Hence the FUD being pushed of 30% and no hardware RT.

9.2 would be 30%

10.3 is 18%

Other feature sets have them trading blows.

The more leaks that come out, make the smoke thicker.

I forgot all about that.....oh shit.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

confrimation that, he is basically your standard delusional dumb console warrior, who landed a dream job.
we can all be ceo's someday boys.
dont lose the hope

Colteastwood has a chance!

 

[A.Romero]

I don't get the attitude some Gaffers are displaying. Obviously they had faith in their product and the approach they took, time showed that they were wrong. They took a bet just like they all do when making these decisions. Kutaragi also had absolute confidence Cell was the future and it didn't pan out as he was expecting, evidently.

This E-Mail is the kind of stuff a good corporate leader writes to motivate their team, nothing to do with console warroring except it just happens to exist within this context. I've written memos like that myself in the past.

Not a console warrior, btw. I don't even have an Xbox (but I do have every home console Sony has released). I just don't get why these reactions.

 

[THE DUCK]

C'mon that part is just the ability of outputting a 8k signal.
This has been around since at least the PS3 gen and I've never seen anybody equate that with the actual internal res before this gen.

They don't even hit the 4K mark in many games. Yet they advertise the crap out of both consoles as hitting this. This happens on every single console.

 

[CitizenKratos]

No, it's perfectly fine math. From 9TB to 12TB it's about 33% (3/9). It's a bit less since it's not a clean 9 and 12.

You are looking in reverse but that's not what's being discussed. So yes, it's just math.

No. It's bad math. Notice at the ps5 reveal there was no way to calculate the GPU to be under 10 TF. 9 was from an earlier rumor, not the reveal.

 

[John Wick]

Nobody said that, it was just a break from a more conventional design leaving more questions than normal. Not sure why you are bringing XSS into it, has absolutely zero to do with what people were saying about PS5.
Plus every console in the world, since the inception of time failed to hit the PR targets on the box. How many 8k games you seen lately? Even 4k at 60hz on PS5 and Series X, if you really want to play that dumb game.
Meanwhile here in reality, developers are making version of games for PC specs for almost ever game, which is well below spec of any of the consoles, making everything you are saying even more pointless.

What questions? Just fud being spread from the Xbox shills. Cerny explained in detail about the clockspeed and sustaining it etc.

 

[THE DUCK]

What questions? Just fud being spread from the Xbox shills. Cerny explained in detail about the clockspeed and sustaining it etc.

I literally just quoted you an example from one of the most respected tech sites out there, but go ahead and keep calling it fud spread by xbox shills. I mean crazy that industry magazines and reviewers would question someone who works for the company that is releasing the system, they definately aren't biased at all for thier own work. What your saying is beyond rediculous.

 

[Crayon]

MS owns Github. Those Xbox shills on social media who were dropping hints that "something was coming," learned in the discord that those same exec's hung out in, including DFs Alex, knew about the Github "leak" before it was released to Github. A MS owned service. They just didn't know that the chip stats they leaked at the time, wasn't it's full feature set. Hence the FUD being pushed of 30% and no hardware RT.

9.2 would be 30%

10.3 is 18%

Other feature sets have them trading blows.

The more leaks that come out, make the smoke thicker.

Well that's a pretty strong trail and it looks like it was seated by microsoft. And again, that's 100% typical of them so it's not at all hard to believe.

But the Crux of my question here is why does it sound like Phil believed it? Does nobody give him the memo that they put out some bullshit?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well that's a pretty strong trail and it looks like it was seated by microsoft. And again, that's 100% typical of them so it's not at all hard to believe.

But the Crux of my question here is why does it sound like Phil believed it? Does nobody give him the memo that they put out some bullshit?

Maybe they themselves were left scratching their heads since Cerny seemed to stupify many with the rising tide lifts all boats.

These are the same group that tried combining the TF and RT flop count together early on to seem bigger. "Most powerful console ever" switched to "most powerful Xbox ever" real soon after.

 

[Crayon]

Maybe they themselves were left scratching their heads since Cerny seemed to stupify many with the rising tide lifts all boats.

These are the same group that tried combining the TF and RT flop count together early on to seem bigger. "Most power console ever" switched to "most powerful Xbox ever" real soon after.

Fudception is the only hypothesis that fits the facts.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Phil Spencer seems to only win the Paper Wars…

Win spec war on paper….

Use paper (cash) to buy out your own failings…

Paper Poppa Phil

 

[nowhat]

Phil Spencer seems to only win the Paper Wars…

Win spec war on paper….

While the real life performance differential between PS5 and XSX seems to be negligible in most cases, One X was undeniably more powerful than Pro. Did that help with market or mind share? I don't think it did, not very much at least.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

While the real life performance differential between PS5 and XSX seems to be negligible in most cases, One X was undeniably more powerful than Pro. Did that help with market or mind share? I don't think it did, not very much at least.

Phil really thought he nailed the XSX launch

Equal price

"Better" hardware

Supposedly felt the software situation was far better than it actually was

It's funny seeing how wrong he was. Phil seems to have a terrible eye for quality/taste, and that may be a big reason why he genuinely thought Halo would be a launch title and that Redfall was an 8+ based on internal reviews….it's probably why the first part situation stagnated so long under his leadership

 

[Yoda]

M$ seems to be a victim of its own company culture... I guess it balances out the fact they technically have order of magnitude more capital resources than Sony or Nintendo. Imagine the market lead they'd have if they simply focused on creating amazing products that delight customers. None of this bullshit about trying to open console gaming to casuals (kinect), introducing anti-consumer practices (xbone no used games), 1st party studios with proper management (343 Bonnie Ross), laser focusing on making a platform when they aren't capable of reliably producing high quality exclusives (xcloud, gamepass), etc....

 

[Hestar69]

Yeah I wouldn't touch one, but a lot of people forget desktops even exist. For everyday light work, laptops are where it's at.

Casuals of course aren't going to get a gaming laptop, either. They're going to get something decent with a 3060 or something like that. Or less. Kids will play on whatever is laying around. Most will run your apex, fortnite, minecraft, league, etc. Remember, sea if thieves includes a 15 FPS mode!

yeah most casuals only care about COD/Fortnite/Minecrady really. Sea of thives has a 15 fps mode? does it really? I play it on xbox so dunno about it on PC

 

[Crayon]

yeah most casuals only care about COD/Fortnite/Minecrady really. Sea of thives has a 15 fps mode? does it really? I play it on xbox so dunno about it on PC

Yeah straight up potato mode out of the box. It's a heavy game for cheap laptops, which is what a lot of young kids play on.

 

[damidu]

MS owns Github. Those Xbox shills on social media who were dropping hints that "something was coming," learned in the discord that those same exec's hung out in, including DFs Alex, knew about the Github "leak" before it was released to Github. A MS owned service. They just didn't know that the chip stats they leaked at the time, wasn't it's full feature set. Hence the FUD being pushed of 30% and no hardware RT.

9.2 would be 30%

10.3 is 18%

Other feature sets have them trading blows.

The more leaks that come out, make the smoke thicker.

ah thats probably why, that idiot gets teary eyed and acts like you insulted his mom, whenever someone brings up the ps5 pro.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't get the attitude some Gaffers are displaying. Obviously they had faith in their product and the approach they took, time showed that they were wrong. They took a bet just like they all do when making these decisions. Kutaragi also had absolute confidence Cell was the future and it didn't pan out as he was expecting, evidently.

This E-Mail is the kind of stuff a good corporate leader writes to motivate their team, nothing to do with console warroring except it just happens to exist within this context. I've written memos like that myself in the past.

Not a console warrior, btw. I don't even have an Xbox (but I do have every home console Sony has released). I just don't get why these reactions.

When you're writing this e-mail to a CEO and CFO, after being warned specifically about being overly confident by a board of directors, yes, this is a really bad look.

It means as head of Xbox he has no grasp on the realities of the industry and if they can't trust him, how can he lead?

 

[IllegalLemon]

Playstation basically lives rent free in Phil's head at this point. The biggest concern for Phil is obsessing over numbers and the "ours is better than theirs" mentality. Seems like he doesn't even practice what he preaches. "Console wars are not worth your time", spends his time doing the typical console warrior self-masturbation dance. What has he proven as of yet? Very little... aside from obsessing over numbers in a spec sheet and having nothing to show for it. Where's the confidence at? Last time I checked, obsessing over the business of your rivals, isn't something that inspires confidence or shows it in any capacity.