Forza Motorsport (XSX) vs Gran Turismo 7 (PS5) Graphics Comparison (Up: Video in OP replaced as IGN one was not fit for purpose)
- Thread starter gokurho
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SimTourist
Banned
The rain reflections are not handled by RT, it's using Screen Space Reflections.
pop_tarts
Member
Yes the top video is FM7 and GT Sports, but the point stands for FM2023 and GT7, why are there reflections of hands in the windshield? I found anotherreal world car to proof a point. This is the best example I could find of a like for like with real world. Like this guy stating GT7 can't see arms and steering wheel, like the dashboard is supposted to be 2 inches long. 20 to 21 pages and nobody has an issue with this lol. I would have thought Turn 10 would have fixed this, but its all about milking RT this RT that.
Its still in but difficult to see sometimes. But its not in real time like FM/FH, you don't see the arms and the steering wheel and other things that move in the reflections.
I'm pretty sure it's not RT for that reflection. It's whatever they used in FM7 just reused.
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Unknown?
Member
That's mainly due to the painstaking detail GT goes through to be 100% accurate whereas Forza has been known to take liberties with real life tracks to make them better suited for games.That was just one example; I took and annotated one screenshot. But you can spot the same type of differences in pretty much the entire video.
Here are a few images:
- Fewer, less detailed objects.
- Missing details and missing shadows (the sun is at the same angle in both GT and FM)
- Difference in qualities of trees
- Differences in draw distance, fewer long-distance objects, and less environmental geometry in FM7.
Even these 3 screenshots I took just randomly stopped the video at random places. The video is full of such comparisons and one can easily take 10+ of these screenshots. These are just a few examples.
- Fewer trees, lower-quality trees, and less environmental detail in FM.
- Low draw distance, LOD issues, and rendering fewer objects and environmental details.
- Although I did not mark it in the image, there are no reflections on the hood of the car in FM 7, and the lighting is unrealistic in the cockpit, especially on the steering wheel.
100% agree with this. Tech stuff is just that ... tech stuff. A game can look so much better for other reasons, and good art is usually enough to trump the technical mumbo jumbo 9 out of 10 times.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
GT7 looks significantly better and yikes almost as many votes for Mario Kart as Forza!
pop_tarts
Member
Thanks Three, I came in 19 pages deep, so I basically scanned for pictures and videos and 1 or 2 replies, but it's baffling that the reviewers or others seem to have a problem with it.
Killer8
Member
The car detail is almost a generational difference in GT7's favor. Compare the interiors.
Forza is missing the windshield frits (the black dot pattern around the edge) as well as the working digital MPH readout on the speedo. GT7's car materials react more realistically to light. I can't easily tell due to the dark lighting but I think Forza is also missing the upholstery detail (eg. we can see GT7 replicates the seams on the wheel). Edges in the cockpit are actually round in GT7, whereas you can literally see the polygonal edges that make up Forza's (check out the wheel and oh lordy, those air con vents). The fine mesh detail on what I assume is the car speaker system is also so much finer in GT7, to the point where it looks like it isn't there due to Youtube compression, but it is - just far more delicately modeled. The buttons on the car wheel also have a nice bump mapping effect in GT7 that reacts to the lighting beautifully, which Forza makes an attempt to emulate with muddy results.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Plus they know that the cars are made of vibranium so why not ram your way anyway...Need to remember Forza AI is based of real peoples driving(drivatars)
If you every played online in Forza that AI is realistic as can be
Markio128
Member
GT7 interiors are modelled to ridiculous levels in their entirety. It's in VR that you can truly appreciate the smallest of details. You can turn around and see the back seats, see the stitching in the seat belts, the detail on the doors internals. There are even times, when sitting in certain cars that have seats with head surround, that you can see the rest either side of your head.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not at all. Here is a screenshot directly taken of this video.
GT 7 excels in both car as well as environmental details.
- GT 7 has significantly better and richer trees with more volume and accurate color.
- GT 7 has better tesselation, track details, and terrain texture.
- GT 7 has a much better draw distance and is rendering more things on the screen.
Fuck's sake Heis, what a terribly disingenuous picture with red boxes you've made here
Let me try one too ..
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Forza's red boxes are real time RBRT, GT's red boxes are baked RBI.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
What's disingenuous about it?Fuck's sake Heis, what a terribly disingenuous picture with red boxes you've made here
Let me try one too ..
I didn't even post that video; somebody else did. I took screenshots to respond to someone and put numbers to highlight the differences and easily pinpoint what I was referring to. Those are real screenshots from a direct comparison, taken from a video someone else posted.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It's disingenuous in the sense that you're comparing two completely different rendering approaches of a map and then talking about LoD differences, they're not 1 : 1 in terms of how they're rendering the foliage and trees to be compared like that lol
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Holy shit.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
All three points are incorrect. Forza has 3d trees, way more trackside detail, and way bigger draw distance. Cherrypicking a single screenshot with a fucking cone on the ground to assert GT7 is rendering more things on screen is hilarious.
BigLee74
Member
Yeah, ok. I would leave the comparisons to the big boys.That was just one example; I took and annotated one screenshot. But you can spot the same type of differences in pretty much the entire video.
Here are a few images:
- Fewer, less detailed objects.
- Missing details and missing shadows (the sun is at the same angle in both GT and FM)
- Difference in qualities of trees
- Differences in draw distance, fewer long-distance objects, and less environmental geometry in FM7.
Even these 3 screenshots I took just randomly stopped the video at random places. The video is full of such comparisons and one can easily take 10+ of these screenshots. These are just a few examples.
- Fewer trees, lower-quality trees, and less environmental detail in FM.
- Low draw distance, LOD issues, and rendering fewer objects and environmental details.
- Although I did not mark it in the image, there are no reflections on the hood of the car in FM 7, and the lighting is unrealistic in the cockpit, especially on the steering wheel.
100% agree with this. Tech stuff is just that ... tech stuff. A game can look so much better for other reasons, and good art is usually enough to trump the technical mumbo jumbo 9 out of 10 times.
One thing I will say is that it is disheartening to see faceted curves in the interiors in Forza. It would appear to be the same old issues again. Are these old car models?
PropellerEar
Member
You didn't even provide a screenshot, just a toot straight from your ass.
eNT1TY
Member
You just don't get it. Well you see... in the top picture construction was already done by that day on the track in gt so they didn't need a helicopter to oversee the crane operation, and on the bottom set of pictures there was a festival going on in Forza where they had a weekend cookout so they had to set up tents in anticipation of possible bad weather in GT it was Tuesday and everyone knows you cant have a cookout on Tuesday.Fuck's sake Heis, what a terribly disingenuous picture with red boxes you've made here
Let me try one too ..
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Fuck's sake Heis, what a terribly disingenuous picture with red boxes you've made here
Let me try one too ..
He probably got those screens from some iconic type of era forum.
Unknown?
Member
Hmmmm guess that video shouldn't have been posted then or do you not like it because it shows Forza in a bad light?It's disingenuous in the sense that you're comparing two completely different rendering approaches of a map and then talking about LoD differences, they're not 1 : 1 in terms of how they're rendering the foliage and trees to be compared like that lol
3D trees don't matter if it doesn't even look better. He didn't do a single screenshot, he did multiple to show lower detail and if it's cherry picking then so are all the other ones that show Forza better. In GT it really depends on the track though, they aren't all consistent.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
but they do look better. like what are we doing here?
GT7 does do somethings better but are we seriously going to deny that Forza trees look better?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Clearly you didn't understand the post you've quoted. Let's move on.
Unknown?
Member
Yeah the car detail is so good! Nothing gets left out!
fran.fernandez
Member
Any news about forza movie? GT was really good!
ShakenG
Member
What is going on with that car. I dont know how to describe it.. its high gloss black that has a mirror reflection..??Holy shit.
Is that a "holy shit" in a good way or bad Slimey??
Really hope im not the only one that thinks that merc looks bad... The side door in particular.
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Unknown?
Member
He took screens from a comparison video that was posted here. If it's not accurate, then it shouldn't have been posted. The fact that both of you can cherrypick things should show there's no clear overall advantage either way. Your rebuttle screens weren't 1:1 comparisons either.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
nah, it looks fantastic hence the holy shit.What is going on with that car. I dont know how to describe it.. its high gloss black that has a mirror reflection..??
Is that a "holy shit" in a good way or bad Slimey??
Really hope im not the only one that thinks that merc looks bad... calm down diddly
ShakenG
Member
Obviously i respect your opinion mate, but i couldn't disagree more.
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alphachino
Member
I think it looks impressive at first glance, but not realistic whatsoever and about as subtle as a hammer to the face.
Zuzu
Gold Member
I've just been playing Forza Motorsport for nearly 2 hours on my Series X and you're right. GT7's car detail is at another level compared to Forza (I'm primarily referring to external car detail; I'm not sure atm regarding interior detail). I'm a bit disappointed by Forza's visuals tbh. The shadowing of the cars is nice and makes the cars feel very attached and planted to the road and the lighting coverage seems to be really good. They've done a good job with the global illumination.
But I dunno, there's something disappointing about the visuals to me as well. The textures don't look that impressive and the image quality is quite a bit less pristine than GT7. The stadiums look quite nice but the natural environment seems a bit hit and miss wrt its visual fidelity.
On the other hand Forza's physics feel like a generational leap over Forza 7. The cars control brilliantly and feel amazing so far. The sound is also pretty epic - some of the race cars are reminiscent of the monster sound that Project Cars produced. They sound like guttural speed demons.
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ShakenG
Member
Lots of people have praised the handling so they obviously have that going in the right direction. Love to get my hands on it.
Out of curiosity, i haven't seen it mentioned. Does Motorsport still have puddles that effect your driving? I think 7 called it 3D Puddles?
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is hysterical. Reminds me of those videos of women trying to get out of parking lots and continue to turn the wrong way while reversing.
Does MS own chatgpt or has an AI of their own? Can we take AI out of programmers hands and just have AI design AI in video games. We all thought the jaguar CPUs were holding back the developers but its clear these guys are all clueless.
Does MS own chatgpt or has an AI of their own? Can we take AI out of programmers hands and just have AI design AI in video games. We all thought the jaguar CPUs were holding back the developers but its clear these guys are all clueless.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Agreed. That reflection is hideous and when you zoom in, it looks even worse. I've seen far better screenshots of the game.
GHG
Member
If Microsoft ever propose a solution for self-driving cars, everyone run for your lives.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Not at all. Here is a screenshot directly taken of this video.
GT 7 excels in both car as well as environmental details.
- GT 7 has significantly better and richer trees with more volume and accurate color.
- GT 7 has better tesselation, track details, and terrain texture.
- GT 7 has a much better draw distance and is rendering more things on the screen.
And I am not even disagreeing with you as I think that one part of that track does look better on GT7. But this is totally disingenuous.
I mean I can do that with that blurry pic as well.
1. where's GTs light poles?
2. where are the signs?
3 the trees are actually lit better in Forza with multiple lights and shadows... not just a dimmed green like GT7.
4. the ground textures are lit better in Forza.
5. the tessellation is there with better shadowing and RT AO.
6. how messed up is GT FOV to even get that angle?
7. the shadows of the bg doesn't realistically match the suns position in GT7.
8. Track is in the better time of season in Forza than Gt7.
To be clear that was sarcasm...
.This thread isn't about which looks the best more than who can take the worst pic. and since Forza has a pc version with low settings that is an uneven playing field.
But lets get a clearer image just for fun:
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Listening now but timestamped them discussing Forza
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I don't think it's so much about IQ so much as Forza seems to be applying liberal use of film grain and motion blur. The first time I saw the game at 60 FPS I had to make sure it was actually 60 and not 30; that's how heavy the use of motion blur and film grain for post-processing seems to be.
Comparatively, GT7 is much more subtle about usage of both things, and I think it's to the game's benefit. Clarity in details is more pronounced as a result although, like I said, GT7 does have measured use of motion blur and film grain. Forza seems like it's "waxed" over the entire frame.
And I am not even disagreeing with you as I think that one part of that track does look better on GT7. But this is totally disingenuous.
I mean I can do that with that blurry pic as well.
1. where's GTs light poles?
2. where are the signs?
3 the trees are actually lit better in Forza with multiple lights and shadows... not just a dimmed green like GT7.
4. the ground textures are lit better in Forza.
5. the tessellation is there with better shadowing and RT AO.
6. how messed up is GT FOV to even get that angle?
7. the shadows of the bg doesn't realistically match the suns position in GT7.
8. Track is in the better time of season in Forza than Gt7.
To be clear that was sarcasm...
This thread isn't about which looks the best more than who can take the worst pic. and since Forza has a pc version with low settings that is an uneven playing field.
But lets get a clearer image just for fun:
In motion, there is a definite case of Forza having apparently less image quality because even if internal resolution is same or even better than GT7 (just supposing on that part), Forza has such liberal use of motion blur and film grain that image clarity is both more "filmic" and therefore less stable/clear when actually playing.
IMO it comes down to the lathered use of film grain & motion blur across the entire image, vs. GT7 where those things are a lot more subtle and measured in how they are applied when in actual motion.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
For context, my post was a response to a guy who said that apart from cars, everything else looks better in Forza, especially in this video.And I am not even disagreeing with you as I think that one part of that track does look better on GT7. But this is totally disingenuous.
I mean I can do that with that blurry pic as well.
1. where's GTs light poles?
2. where are the signs?
3 the trees are actually lit better in Forza with multiple lights and shadows... not just a dimmed green like GT7.
4. the ground textures are lit better in Forza.
5. the tessellation is there with better shadowing and RT AO.
6. how messed up is GT FOV to even get that angle?
7. the shadows of the bg doesn't realistically match the suns position in GT7.
8. Track is in the better time of season in Forza than Gt7.
To be clear that was sarcasm...
This thread isn't about which looks the best more than who can take the worst pic. and since Forza has a pc version with low settings that is an uneven playing field.
But lets get a clearer image just for fun:
I posted screenshots from that same video highlighting multiple instances why that wasn't necessarily the case.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Is the video doctored? No.It's disingenuous in the sense that you're comparing two completely different rendering approaches of a map and then talking about LoD differences, they're not 1 : 1 in terms of how they're rendering the foliage and trees to be compared like that lol
Are my screenshots doctored? No.
Is that a comparison video? Yes.
Did I take screenshots of that video? Yes.
Then it's not disginenous.
Mr Moose
Member
They should add those lights to the track in real life.And I am not even disagreeing with you as I think that one part of that track does look better on GT7. But this is totally disingenuous.
I mean I can do that with that blurry pic as well.
1. where's GTs light poles?
2. where are the signs?
3 the trees are actually lit better in Forza with multiple lights and shadows... not just a dimmed green like GT7.
4. the ground textures are lit better in Forza.
5. the tessellation is there with better shadowing and RT AO.
6. how messed up is GT FOV to even get that angle?
7. the shadows of the bg doesn't realistically match the suns position in GT7.
8. Track is in the better time of season in Forza than Gt7.
To be clear that was sarcasm...
This thread isn't about which looks the best more than who can take the worst pic. and since Forza has a pc version with low settings that is an uneven playing field.
But lets get a clearer image just for fun:
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I posted screenshots from a comparison video. If you're claiming otherwise, point that out in the same screenshots above.
It's funny you pretend to be a graphic expert but you could only see a cone and not all the missing trees and people in those screenshots.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Turn10 claims otherwise that everything is built from the ground up, but some fans claim otherwise, that there are too many similarities in the new and old car models.
I can't say for sure.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Were the two trying to render the exact same environmental detail? No.
Does it make sense to compare LoDs and tree distance when they weren't? No.
Was it therefore a disingenuous comparison? Yep.
Unknown?
Member
Read his post again, someone posted that video saying it shows Forza to be better. Is it a good video comparison? Probably not but you're clearly missing context.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yes. They are the same tracks! If one game has fewer details on that track, then that's a point worth including, of course. Otherwise, you could compare Forza Motorsport 7 with Gran Turismo 2 or FM3 with GT 7.
Absolutely it does. See above. They are the same real-world tracks. One game has more details than the other. Again, this was in response to someone who said the apart from car details, everything else in this video is better in Forza. I showed with evidence that it was not the case. And that GT 7 has more environmental details.
Nope. And your problem seems more to be with the comparison video in that case. You should bring that up to the YT channel that posted this or the guy who shared that video in this thread.
Not sure why the screenshots of a video that was already posted and being discussed upset you so much.
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