LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Surprised it took this long to consolidate. There's a lot of internal staff that does the same job. I read the number of employees and was shocked it was so large.
Paul Tassi: Layoffs at Bungie - Happening Now.
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
VanCityGamer
Member
I'm so glad you guys feel the same way I do about that guy. It is downright creepy how obsessed he is with Xbox. He does constant free marketing for them. And he defended them all through their drought of games, even at the worst times.
Dynasty8
Member
Going to sound like an asshole, but I don't care....
If these layoffs would allow them to hire a dedicated Crucible "striketeam", then I am all for that. I've put more hours in D2 than any other game and as someone who has purchased every expansion and will most likely continue playing Destiny in the future, I don't think it's necessarily bad IF they "trim the fat" and allocate some of the budget in favor of other aspects that fans have been starving and begging for for years...specifically PvP.
We'll see, time will tell.
If these layoffs would allow them to hire a dedicated Crucible "striketeam", then I am all for that. I've put more hours in D2 than any other game and as someone who has purchased every expansion and will most likely continue playing Destiny in the future, I don't think it's necessarily bad IF they "trim the fat" and allocate some of the budget in favor of other aspects that fans have been starving and begging for for years...specifically PvP.
We'll see, time will tell.
DrFigs
Member
oh i assumed it was an xbox employee. that's fucking weird
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ReBurn
Gold Member
Just because it was forecasted doesn't mean leadership above Jim Ryan was ok with it. They specifically called out in their FY2023 Q1 results negative impacts in their forecast due to changes in the launch dates of titles and deterioration of profit due to hardware promotions. Sure, they knew there was only one game left but that doesn't mean the Japanese mothership was fine with the forecast. Someone was responsible for those negative impacts and it looks like Jim Ryan and Connie Booth are probably those someones.
Couple that with their GaaS titles not being where they expected them to be and it's a recipe for moving to cost cutting mode and firing some people at Naughty Dog who hadn't met expectations for Factions and trimming things down at Bungie and Media Molecule. All of these layoffs are in divisions we know to have focus on online, connected experiences. So it's pretty easy to see where it could be Jim Ryan's GaaS thread unraveling. Either that or it's a heck of a coincidence.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Post-COVID trimming. All the big tech companies are doing it now and no one is immune. Hope those affected land on their feet soon.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Get through one wall of text in an unrelated topic without crying about Sonys PC ports challenge: failed
You guys really need to get over it. They own Nixxes for a reason.
There isn't a conflict of interest if they shift the PC strategy to catalog/legacy PS titles (PS1, PS2, PS3, some PS4), say as collection remasters with QoL improvements. Those titles no longer have a value proposition to the current console in terms of selling new users on the console and consolidating their spending habits to that system.
Porting something like GOW: Ragnarok just a year or two after it releases on PS4 & PS5 (but specifically PS5) is an idiotic business decision because it removes that game's ability to act as a selling agent for the console over the course of the generation. It's one less reason to buy a PS5, if you can get the game on PC just a year or two later. This was always going to be the case and, again, we've seen the problem play out in real-time for Xbox over the past several years, constantly losing reasons to buy a system and that's reflected in the market performance for Series consoles.
But, at least Microsoft don't rely on gaming as one of their breadwinners. Even after getting ABK, gaming revenue and profits will be small for them compared to Azure, Windows, Office, AI and the lucrative OEM, military, medical, scientific etc. contracts. Gaming is actually a significant part of Sony's bottom line, particularly console gaming. Cutting the knees off it with porting the marquee current-gen releases to PC a year or two after console was a braindead decision and it damages the value proposition of the console, where content you can't get anywhere else is critical.
If you don't believe me, just ask Microsoft and Nintendo. The former forgot it, and their console brand is becoming an afterthought in the market getting outsold 9:1 in France & other non US/UK markets (with revenue per market reflecting that). The latter remembered, and their brand is arguably bigger than it's ever been in all metrics. I wonder which one a company like Sony should follow, considering which of the two they built up a lot of their console gaming business inspired by and thus saw massive success in the past?
....
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DrFigs
Member
media molecule hasn't been working on an online game since dreams launched. at least not that we know of.
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DrFigs
Member
spiderman 2 just came out
rofif
Banned
I couldn't care less about superhero open world game but you are right. It's a good sp game
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Get through one wall of text in an unrelated topic without crying about Sonys PC ports challenge: failed
You guys really need to get over it. They own Nixxes for a reason.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Get through one wall of text in an unrelated topic without crying about Sonys PC ports challenge: failed
You guys really need to get over it. They own Nixxes for a reason.
Some do care
ChorizoPicozo
Member
suffering from success.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
There isn't a conflict of interest if they shift the PC strategy to catalog/legacy PS titles (PS1, PS2, PS3, some PS4), say as collection remasters with QoL improvements. Those titles no longer have a value proposition to the current console in terms of selling new users on the console and consolidating their spending habits to that system.
Porting something like GOW: Ragnarok just a year or two after it releases on PS4 & PS5 (but specifically PS5) is an idiotic business decision because it removes that game's ability to act as a selling agent for the console over the course of the generation. It's one less reason to buy a PS5, if you can get the game on PC just a year or two later. This was always going to be the case and, again, we've seen the problem play out in real-time for Xbox over the past several years, constantly losing reasons to buy a system and that's reflected in the market performance for Series consoles.
But, at least Microsoft don't rely on gaming as one of their breadwinners. Even after getting ABK, gaming revenue and profits will be small for them compared to Azure, Windows, Office, AI and the lucrative OEM, military, medical, scientific etc. contracts. Gaming is actually a significant part of Sony's bottom line, particularly console gaming. Cutting the knees off it with porting the marquee current-gen releases to PC a year or two after console was a braindead decision and it damages the value proposition of the console, where content you can't get anywhere else is critical.
If you don't believe me, just ask Microsoft and Nintendo. The former forgot it, and their console brand is becoming an afterthought in the market getting outsold 9:1 in France & other non US/UK markets (with revenue per market reflecting that). The latter remembered, and their brand is arguably bigger than it's ever been in all metrics. I wonder which one a company like Sony should follow, considering which of the two they built up a lot of their console gaming business inspired by and thus saw massive success in the past?
They've been doing it for years at this point and it is obviously not hurting their console business. The only reason you're this upset that you're ranting about it every chance you get in completely unrelated topics is because the games are no longer exclusive to your preferred plastic box.
OverHeat
« generous god »
Maybe the games cost to much to make?
StealthGoblin
Banned
They have great revenue but their profit margins are tight. Investment in cloud etc will be expensive so consistent revenue streams are needed
DrFigs
Member
rude
Dr. Samuel Hayden
Member
Ryan and Hulst are the worst thing to ever happen to Playstation and it's not even close. Their cancerous GAAS push has become a complete trainwreck before it even began.
I desperately hope Hulst will follow Ryan out the door sooner rather than later.
I desperately hope Hulst will follow Ryan out the door sooner rather than later.
ReBurn
Gold Member
They've probably been working on Dreams since Dreams launched. Their last major update was September 13, 2023.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Ryan and Booth are both well into retirement age, especially for c-suite.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It's called business management and course-correcting/course-adjusting. All companies do it.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Sorry for those who lost employment, but it's about time that place got flushed of its corrosion and fungus.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Your mistake is thinking he does it for free
Kerotan
Member
Why does MS always try to point score when Sony lays off developers? It's pathetic. Why don't they offer these positions to thousands of workers they've laid off themselves.
MoreJRPG
Suffers from extreme PDS
Breaking sales records =/= profit. Games are costing more and more each year, salaries are getting higher and higher and borrowing rates aren't what they were five years ago. There's a reason they're making huge investments in GaaS and Microsoft bought Activision. Single player doesn't pay the bills anymore.
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thegame983
Member
If a CEO has the choice between laying off 1000 employees or downgrading the toilet paper in his private bathroom...you know which one he's gonna pick.
While layoffs are never a good thing. Microsoft has over 220K employees. That's a lot of employees for a predominantly software and services company. For comparison Sony has 113K employees through its many divisions of consumer electronics hardware/software, movie/music production, financial services and all the other things Sony does.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Those studios need all the help they can get.
Kerotan
Member
Sony considering how many more times profit MS makes it's far more shameful them laying off so many employees compared to Sony.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Klobrille is...well, he's "special". And I mean that purely in the context of him being an Xbox fanboy wearing the veneer of a somewhat more well-reasoned $0/hr brand marketing agent.
So when you understand that, tweets like this one make sense. None of it is genuine or sincere, they're just looking to score Xbox some points on the console war board.
The negative consequences of a strategy where the 1P portfolio for console is diluted in selling power via 1-year/2-year/Day 1 ports to a competing gaming platform, take time to manifest. It's not like the sky falls out the very next day. It took several years for the truly negative side effects of MS's Day 1 Xbox & PC initiative for all 1P games to manifest in the financials, and that's not accounting for any fudging of data reporting they did to hide the rot years prior.
Another way of putting it: there hasn't been enough time to show any results of the strategy negatively hurting the console. But if it continues, or accelerates (especially with Day 1), it WILL negatively impact the PS5 Pro (supposing it releases), and especially the PS6. Early adopters who bought a PS5 in the first 2-3 years because of 1P console exclusives they expected to only access on the console (alongside using that to justify making the console their main platform for game purchases, subs, MTX/IAP purchases etc.), will be less inclined to buy a PS6 at launch. Why? Because they can just expect those games on PC a year later, or get them on PC Day 1, probably for cheaper than on console, too.
The bigger problem with that is, those early adopters are almost always the hardcore/core enthusiasts who are the highest ARPU customers in the console ecosystem. They may make up say less than 10% of the typical console purchasing install base, but they constitute a lot more than that in spending power within that console ecosystem. Those are the people Sony risk driving away to other platforms, and losing out on a big chunk of their revenue along the way. Then they'll really be in trouble.
So, no, I'm not "upset", and even if I were it'd definitely not be for such a petty reason you're claiming. I'm actually interested in the long-term prosperity of PlayStation as a console gaming brand. And, I've followed the hobby and it's industry side enough to recognize a lot of the problems the platform holders have made over the years, including Sony in the past. I don't want to see them do more self-inflicted wounds that will become longer-term problems for them, when that can be avoided. Especially in this context, considering it's also Sony giving away vertical integration to 3P storefronts on a different platform they have little vested interest in outside of PC game sales.
Hell, the PC game sales so far haven't even been going that well; they came under their target last FY and the main reason they reached the amount they did was due to Destiny 2. PC isn't bringing enough to fund these other 1P AAA games for the console and if shortening the porting window or doing Day 1 is believed to make that happen, I strongly doubt it would. At least not without destroying a lot of the value proposition of the console for hardcore/core enthusiasts (mainly early adopters) along the way, and console side makes way more revenue for Sony than PC does or ever will.
That's why the PC would be best served with compilation ports of legacy/catalog titles and most of the GaaS titles (which they don't need 10-12 of in number, anyway). This is common sense. But I'm sure some PC people who want to play these games but somehow don't want to get a console to play them, would be upset. Well, too bad; they've still got options if they really want to play these games. Just like how, if I really wanted to pay LoL or VALORANT, I'd need to get a PC. That's the point of exclusives: they sell the platform.
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Kerotan
Member
Oh so he's just a fanboy not an employee.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
For now; if Matt Booty & Aaron Greenberg of all people can get a promotion, I'm sure Klobrille and Colteastwood could get an official gig on the Microsoft Gaming
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Until you are in their building and run their business then you don't know what the cause and effect of some layoffs is going to be.
I also don't like the games as a service direction so I'm glad to see a backpedal and consolidation of things. I would like for them to get more games out from Japan if possible and continue to pump out the goods as they've been going from their world wide studios.
There are quite a bit of heavy hitters they haven't even announced.
semiconscious
Member
https://playstation-studios.fandom.com/wiki/Dreams
media molecule for last 10+ years: 'us? why, we're working on dreams, of course!'...
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Then they should increase their profit margins by charging us more for their PS5 games and increase PS+ price more.
Mismanagement. Their business model isn't sustainable and now they're scurrying to find a new direction.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Mismanagement in which ways?
You don't bring in record revenue unless you're doing something right. That said, the AAA games are getting more and more expensive to make. If anything, they need to find ways to bring down the dev costs for those titles. AI, engine and tools consolidation/streamlining, more use of effective grassroots advertising, less reliance on expensive Hollywood writers & actors/actresses (unless they already work for you on multiple projects across other games, tv shows, movies etc.)...
They can't gimp the selling power of their 1P by conditioning people to expect the games a short while later on PC for cheaper (and on a platform with a lot more piracy), or in a sub service a short while after initial B2P sales release either. They need more 1P AA games, and more all-ages IP that can be grown into big transmedia properties with big merchandising opportunities. Cut back the GaaS titles to a smaller number of more surefire hits, and expand some of those out to mobile in addition to console & PC.
DrFigs
Member
They have to know internally their pc strategy is a bad idea. I never would have thought Nintendo of all companies would have the keenest business sense.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Most of their PC ports sell so few copies with hardly anyone playing on Steam (current or all time high users) the revenue gained from them wont even move the needle. Even if the porting development costs were zero with no 30% cut for Valve and GOG, it still wouldnt move the needle.
So they got some options:
1. Day one ports to boost up usage so PC gamers dont treat them as 3 year old leftovers
2. Status quo porting. Hey, maybe Sony is happy with Returnal selling hardly any copies. As long it makes any profits thats good enough to port over
3. Junk all the porting and funnel the resources for more PS games
No doubt this was their thinking when PC porting strategies were being tossed in board rooms..... release some key hits on PC a few years later + rake in the bucks from PC gamers who dont game on PS = big bonus bucks at no risk.
In reality (for whatever reason), their PC hits ports sell hardly any copies as the huge PC user base doesn't give a shit.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Destiny 2- could've been great but ruined by greed and bogged down with microtransactions, content vaulting (aka you bastards took away $160 worth of content we all paid for-permanently), limited timed content, amd fomo.
It's one of the worst stories of what could've been.
It's one of the worst stories of what could've been.
Cyberpunkd
Banned
Lucie Goosey
Member
Agreed.
Little Chicken
Banned
GAAS isn't going anywhere. No way that demonic shareholders will allow Sony to leave billions on the table like that, they'll at least give it a shot.
Microsoft acquiring ABK made this an even steeper uphill battle for them though. Sony should've been planning for this a decade ago.
Microsoft acquiring ABK made this an even steeper uphill battle for them though. Sony should've been planning for this a decade ago.
Lucie Goosey
Member
That fucking content vaulting was infuriating.
Unbelievably stupid when people do this.
DrFigs
Member
Idk tbh. I think tbe pc sales aren't great compared to ps4/ps5 sales. like gow selling 20 million on ps4 and then cracking a mil on steam isn't particularly good. But there's a lot of caveats here.
We know they're planning on releasing day 1 games, like Helldivers 2 - maybe they will be releasing single player games day 1 as well at some point. Then we might expect some parity in sales.
If you consistently release all ps exclusives on pc, eventually people will start to become patient and just wait it out when they do the math about how much money they will save.
there's other problems. but these strike me as the biggest 2. this is a new strategy from Sony. I don't expect console sales to be immediately impacted. it's gonna be gradual and dependent on the release windows and consistency of pc releases.
StreetsofBeige
Member
From when the deal was announced.
Bungie leadership assures employees Sony deal will not result in layoffs, restructuring
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nial
Gold Member
Kenichiro Yoshida is cleaning out SIE.