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[Gaiff]

Not surprising. They are not a good developer.

Oh man, I can't agree with that. I think Team Ninja is excellent, especially in terms of designing combat systems, but their games lack polish. They often have poor performance combined with underwhelming visuals which makes for a horrible mix.

If they could get some competent people to iron out whatever needs to be, their games could be much better.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Oh man, I can't agree with that. I think Team Ninja is excellent, especially in terms of designing combat systems, but their games lack polish. They often have poor performance combined with underwhelming visuals which makes for a horrible mix.

If they could get some competent people to iron out whatever needs to be, their games could be much better.

Their stories are nothing to write home about neither.

 

[March Climber]

Why they've left Ninja Gaiden and Dead Or Alive to wither away I do not know...

Dead or Alive I understand, however if my company kept making new Ninja Gaiden games and then the consumers kept complaining about every new Ninja Gaiden game, I would stop making new Ninja Gaiden games.

 

[Fbh]

That would definitely be something new and varied

LoL I know right?.
Do some stealth planting

 

[yurinka]

Koei Tecmo Q4 FY3/2024 Financial Results (January - March 2024) | Ordinary / net profits up vs previous FY, sales lower than the original forecast

https://www.koeitecmo.co.jp/ir/docs/ir1_20240430.pdf FY3/2024 YTD (from April 2023 to March 2024) Summary (Million Yen) Sales: 84.584 (+7,9% over the same period of FY3/2023) Operating Profit: 28.494 (-27,2%) Ordinary Profit: 45.741 (+14,6%) Net Profit: 33.792 (+9,2%) Increase in sales...

www.installbaseforum.com

Koei Tecmo (not sure if it was the game director or producer) said instead in a recent interview that Ronin is their fastest selling game ever and that is surpassing their expectations.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Xenoblade isn't a big franchise at all. 1.5-3M lifetime sales aren't much given the popularity of the Switch and the overall commercial success of Nintendo first-party efforts, of which the Xenoblade games are some of the most ambitious and expensive to produce I'd say.

They definitely treat it as a big franchise. Getting their own Nintendo Directs etc.

 

[Gaiff]

Their stories are nothing to write home about neither.

Half the list of games considered the best have almost no story to speak of. It really isn't necessary if the gameplay is great.

To this day, I have no idea of what the story of Ninja Gaiden Black is supposed to be, yet it's one of my top 5 games ever.

 

[Perrott]

They definitely treat it as a big franchise. Getting their own Nintendo Directs etc.

They're prestigious games, there's no denying that.

 

[Warablo]

Wo Long was okay, haven't tried the others despite looking decent.

 

[adamsapple]

Koei Tecmo (not sure if it was the game director or producer) said instead in a recent interview that Ronin is their fastest selling game ever and that is surpassing their expectations.

The interview only says it's the game with the 'best numbers', they don't say that it exceeded their expectations.

じつは史実どおりだった『Rise of the Ronin』の登場人物設定──コーエーテクモのシナリオチームには歴史の考証、ネタを抽出して選別するノウハウが受け継がれている。「比翼の契り」はルビーパーティースタッフの協力、ノウハウがあったからこそ実現できた

コーエーテクモのシナリオチームには歴史の考証、ネタを抽出して選別するノウハウが受け継がれている。「比翼の契り」はルビーパーティースタッフの協力、ノウハウがあったからこそ実現できた。

news-denfaminicogamer-jp.translate.goog

--It seems like it's spreading by word of mouth. It's also doing well in Japan, both in physical and digital versions, right?

Yasuda:
That's right. It's more like repeat sales, or rather, it's moving in the long tail. We're getting a steady response that it's "reaching out."

--In the financial results announcement, there was talk of the game getting off to a better start than Nioh .

Yasuda:
Ronin is currently the Koei Tecmo title with the best numbers .

 

[Three]

The interview only says it's the game with the 'best numbers', they don't say that it exceeded their expectations.

じつは史実どおりだった『Rise of the Ronin』の登場人物設定──コーエーテクモのシナリオチームには歴史の考証、ネタを抽出して選別するノウハウが受け継がれている。「比翼の契り」はルビーパーティースタッフの協力、ノウハウがあったからこそ実現できた

コーエーテクモのシナリオチームには歴史の考証、ネタを抽出して選別するノウハウが受け継がれている。「比翼の契り」はルビーパーティースタッフの協力、ノウハウがあったからこそ実現できた。

news-denfaminicogamer-jp.translate.goog

The 5 Million expectation was for the lifetime of "a new IP". Nioh sold 7M and Rise of the Ronin is outselling it. The analyst is making things up. The same analyst said sell Nintendo stock because they wouldn't hit 17M for FY23, he expected 12M. He was dead wrong like he is now.

 

[adamsapple]

The 5 Million expectation was for the lifetime of "a new IP". Nioh sold 7M and Rise of the Ronin is outselling it. The analyst is making things up. The same analyst said sell Nintendo stock because they wouldn't hit 17M for FY23, he expected 12M. He was dead wrong like he is now.

Nioh sold 7m as a total series, 2 games on 6 platforms. The interview I linked above only cites Ronin as being the 'best numbers', which could mean individually it's selling faster than Nioh 1 or 2. They don't talk any more about metrics than that.

 

[FewRope]

Rise of the Ronin looks like complete ass on PS5, they need to upgrade the tech they use and release everything on PC day 1. I dont think Koei can make exclusive, they are not that big of a deal imho

 

[Seyken]

They released the game on the same day as Dragon's Dogma 2, an already known IP and heavily expected title.

The only reason I bought Ronin at launch was because DD2 is a technical mess on consoles and only runs at 30 fps. So they were lucky that Capcom stumbled, it could've been much worse.

 

[Varteras]

So this is an analyst saying this and not an actual statement from KT?

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Koei Tecmo (not sure if it was the game director or producer) said instead in a recent interview that Ronin is their fastest selling game ever and that is surpassing their expectations.

It's FF16 situation all over again. Let's skip what the publisher really said for some shady tales from the ass that fits the narrative. People still quote the likes of Takashi Mochizuki with a straight face so this thread is not surprising.

 

[Varteras]

It's FF16 situation all over again. Let's skip what the publisher really said for some shady tales from the ass that fits the narrative. People still quote the likes of Takashi Mochizuki with a straight face so this thread is not surprising.

Hell, people still listen to Pachter if he says something they like. Even knowing damn well that guy just shakes a magic 8-ball to figure out if the Earth is currently spinning or if he's breathing oxygen.

 

[GHound]

Who exactly needed a google translation of an analyst telling people what he thinks about a company's view on their financials when their annual and quarterly reports are available for all to read in professionally translated English?

KOEI TECMO HOLDINGS CO., LTD.

This is where we post our quarterly financial results disclosed through the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

www.koeitecmo.co.jp

 

[Three]

Nioh sold 7m as a total series, 2 games on 6 platforms. The interview I linked above only cites Ronin as being the 'best numbers', which could mean individually it's selling faster than Nioh 1 or 2. They don't talk any more about metrics than that.

Which was exactly the expectation for the IP if you read the interview which this analyst is basing this on

【VIPインタビュー】コーエーテクモゲームス・鯉沼久史社長が語る、1000万本タイトル創出を見据えた新規IPの開拓と“連携と競争”を促す社内体制の整備 | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com

ゲーム業界をけん引する大物へのインタビュー企画。第5弾のお相手はコーエーテクモゲームス代表取締役社長・鯉沼久史氏！

www.famitsu.com

 

[squidilix]

With Wild Hearts (EA Publisher), Wo-Long and Fate Samurai were available on all platform... people will retain "muh, Rise of Ronin not sell bc exclusivity"

 

[Aion002]

That's sad, specially on Fate (released on Switch, PC and PS4/5) case, which means that Japanese people really don't care anymore about traditional games (unless is a Nintendo game). The Fate series is quite popular in Japan and this KT game is really well made.

On Rise, maybe KT had expectations that it would perform similarly to Tsushima... Which would be quite stupid from them if true...

Nonetheless, Rise is selling quite well and is a good game. It will probably have good sales on the eventual pc release and hopefully it will surpass Nioh total sales, so they can do a better sequel.

Wo Long was released at launch on gamepass for Xcloud, PC, Xbox One and Series, yet still sold more than a million. That's a win in my book.

On Wild Hearts... Good. That thing is atrocious.

 

[Varteras]

Who exactly needed a google translation of an analyst telling people what he thinks about a company's view on their financials when their annual and quarterly reports are available for all to read in professionally translated English?

KOEI TECMO HOLDINGS CO., LTD.

This is where we post our quarterly financial results disclosed through the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

www.koeitecmo.co.jp

People looking for a narrative that runs counter to the official statements.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

That's too bad, I really enjoyed Samurai Remnant.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

They need to bring back the big, jiggling titties.

Team Ninja not continuing to have the hottest game girls show the really aren't getting it.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Wo long was boring and repetitive. Map design sucks for all team ninja games

Some of the maps in Nioh 2 and Wo Long were fantastic, but the quality is inconsistent. Wo Long has a problem with pacing especially in the starting Yellow Heaven Arc and past Lu Bu Arc, but the second Conqueror of Jiandong DLC is pretty much the best content Team Ninja has done since Ninja Gaiden 2. I can also say that Wo Long has the best designed boss challenges and melee combat system in any action game I have played. It is a shame the game has too much mediocre and subpar content as the high points rise far above every other title in the genre.

P.S. I really think they should stop doing long ass levels and partial retreads on sub-missions as it becomes a bit tedious. They should cut them up into bite-size sections without retreads or break from mission structure altogether.

 

[mayham2199]

Koei Tecmo (not sure if it was the game director or producer) said instead in a recent interview that Ronin is their fastest selling game ever and that is surpassing their expectations.

That's what I'm confused about. We just had a thread with good news about ronins sales. Where is this guy getting his information?

 

[Schmendrick]

Expecting a technical mess on the scale of Wild Hearts to sell at full price no less.....

 

[Physiognomonics]

Meh I tried Wild hearts. It felt some kind of Monster hunter for the masses. Similar with Wo Long, very disappointing demo, laggy controls, flashy moves but kinda uninteresting to play. And I'll probably buy Rise of the Ronin down the line but it's sadly not Nioh 3, it's like they had to do an open-world game for a bigger target audience.

Me I just want Nioh 3, or Bloodborne 2. Real japanese stuff.

 

[ssringo]

As someone that buys a decent amount of games KT releases, none of these really interested me. I'm kinda feudal Japan (or a parallel) and samurai'd out at this point. And Fate, something I otherwise would've bought, was almost completely uninteresting to me even from a servant perspective. I mean, they made the busty Tamamo a fucking loli!

I can't believe they've let Ninja Gaiden rot this long.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Why does exclusives still work for Nintendo?
Everybody else seem to get low sales from exclusivity but not Nintendo. Mario Kart 8 has sold over 60 million. Or are sales high just because the hardware has sold more and the percentage is roughly the same?

I don't think SIE have problems selling their games either.

Also, people seem to forget that a lot of Nintendo best selling games have multiplayer options, MK8, AC: NH, Super Smash Bros, Pokemon etc.

As for Rise of the Ronin, it was 1.5m units a few weeks ago, without going on sale.

I think it will reach their 5m. units forecast

 

[yurinka]

That's what I'm confused about. We just had a thread with good news about ronins sales. Where is this guy getting his information?

The analyst quoted in the OP is commenting the fiscal year report we saw some time ago. Time later after that report we got the interview with a couple Team Ninja guys who also mention that FY report and they add that Ronin is their best performer game.

In such fiscal report, this is what it was said specifically about Ronin (spoiler, they are happy and what they highlight about its sales isn't to miss targets):

They mention Ronin had a better start than Nioh and Nioh 2, which means it's their fastest selling ever and that launch aligned is performing on track / ahead of what they had estimated for the game: to end selling 5 millions (during all its history, not in barely a week covered by the FY report).

I assume he got confused with this slide, which was their missed forecast not for Ronin specifically, but instead for their whole current 2022-2024 (I assume they mean the last 2 fiscal years) console lineup combined outside "series":

I assume the analyst understood it, or has been mistranslated, saying that all games of that period individually missed their per-game target. When what the slide I assume says that the target they had for the whole group combined -not individually- wasn't achieved. Meaning, some titles of the group may have achieved their estimate and others may not, but the group combined didn't.

 

[SJRB]

Ronin is a great game but it looking like a launch PS4 game irked a lot of people and honestly isn't acceptable as a PS5 exclusive releasing in 2024 for 70 bucks.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Ronin is a great game but it looking like a launch PS4 game irked a lot of people and honestly isn't acceptable as a PS5 exclusive releasing in 2024 for 70 bucks.

I find it more important to have a great word of mouth, and Ronin has it.

 

[tmlDan]

All of them had technical mess. Hence why the masses avoid it.

We tolerate them to a certain degree.

you know you're not part of the masses, right? you're part of the minority, "we" lol.

 

[Solidus_T]

Here's a novel idea…… lower your sales target

How much do these fucking people get paid to say this is the target

Exactly lol it's hilarious that Rise is one of their best selling games ever yet fell short. Do they see the problem?

 

[Northeastmonk]

I wouldn't play Rise of the Ronin again even if you paid me. The rest just felt meh. Wo Long had some highs, but it wasn't NiOh 2 kind of awesome. Wild Hearts, I'll just save my time for Monster Hunter.

If they aren't making Ninja Gaiden, what are they doing exactly? The vanilla version of Ninja Gaiden 3 was terrible. They had some great years, but nothing hasn't been enjoyable beyond replaying NiOh 2 with the Remastered version.

KT is known for very unique games. Even back on PS1. They aren't the Monster Hunter type of developer imo. They're an awesome company trying to copy their ideas into the big AAA scene and they should stay unique and original. Team Ninja has some talent when it comes to combat but even with Strangers of Paradise, the level design sucked. Rise of the Ronin felt like a drag half the time I was playing it. I don't get how that was suppose to be their crown jewel achievement on PS5.

 

[nial]

Plus they actually give you a nice variety of genres. Sony hasn't made a JRPG in like 20 years and Nintendo has kept Fire Emblem going all these years

Are you saying that in a thread about a Sony-produced Japanese RPG...?
>inb4 not developed in-house
which is why bringing up Fire Emblem is weird.

 

[nial]

That's sad, specially on Fate (released on Switch, PC and PS4/5) case, which means that Japanese people really don't care anymore about traditional games (unless is a Nintendo game). The Fate series is quite popular in Japan and this KT game is really well made.

Fate started as a VN that exploded into enourmous popularity once it went to the gacha mobile route in 2015. Previous console RPGs in the series weren't big sellers, either, so this doesn't really tell us anything.

 

[nial]

It's also a bit funny to bring up Nintendo here when their Koei Tecmo-developed game bombed HARD in Japan (Buddy Mission Bond)

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Not sure what they were expecting with Fate/Samurai Remnant, it was always going to have limited appeal. The Fate franchise still centers primarily around phone game FGO

I personally enjoyed Samurai Remnant but only because of the Fate related stuff. As a game, it's pretty average and typical of Omega Force generic musou gameplay

 

[Pejo]

I think lack of marketing hurt each of these games a lot. I visit a fair amount of gaming sites and I don't think I've seen a single ad for any of these games outside of Wild Hearts.

 

[nial]

I think lack of marketing hurt each of these games a lot. I visit a fair amount of gaming sites and I don't think I've seen a single ad for any of these games outside of Wild Hearts.

Rise of the Ronin was very well marketed, tho. Fate and Wo Long did have that problem, mostly because they were self-published by Koei Tecmo. They really don't like to spend a lot on marketing.

 

[Pejo]

Rise of the Ronin was very well marketed, tho. Fate and Wo Long did have that problem, mostly because they were self-published by Koei Tecmo. They really don't like to spend a lot on marketing.

Maybe it was just the luck of the draw with what I got served then, because for some reason I thought the game didn't even release until this coming August.

 

[nial]

Maybe it was just the luck of the draw with what I got served then, because for some reason I thought the game didn't even release until this coming August.

Eh, it happens, I got that experience with some big releases before.

 

[sigmaZ]

They need to up their visual appeal. Souls games lack in the graphics department at times, but don't skimp on what matters. You can't be releasing PS2 graphics in the action genre to no avail like they do.

 

[Varteras]

Are you saying that in a thread about a Sony-produced Japanese RPG...?
>inb4 not developed in-house
which is why bringing up Fire Emblem is weird.

Yeah. A lot of people don't realize that many Nintendo games aren't made in-house by them. Nintendo gets credit for the kinds of games that Sony and Microsoft are docked points for not having made themselves. A lot of that having to do with the incredibly tight, effectively exclusive working relationships Nintendo has with several companies. Thus getting treated as effectively 1st party. Intelligent Systems and Rare (prior to Microsoft) are two good examples.

 

[nial]

Yeah. A lot of people don't realize that many Nintendo games aren't made in-house by them. Nintendo gets credit for the kinds of games that Sony and Microsoft are docked points for not having made themselves. A lot of that having to do with the incredibly tight, effectively exclusive working relationships Nintendo has with several companies. Thus getting treated as effectively 1st party. Intelligent Systems and Rare (prior to Microsoft) are two good examples.

And the cherry on top is Nintendo not having any in-house game slated for this year thus far, yet GAF always about talks about their "fantastic" first-party support, right after trying to convince themselves that Rise of the Ronin or Helldivers 2 are "second-party" games.
Give me a fucking break.

 

[Varteras]

And the cherry on top is Nintendo not having any in-house game slated for this year thus far, yet GAF always about talks about their "fantastic" first-party support, right after trying to convince themselves that Rise of the Ronin or Helldivers 2 are "second-party" games.
Give me a fucking break.

I mean, it's the same mentality we're seeing when it comes to Horizon versus yet another Mario game. We got two "traditional" Horizon games in the span of 5 years. Then they made a VR game that plays nothing like the others. We know of a Horizon Online game that is likely still years away, if it doesn't get canceled. Now there is a LEGO game for it. All these different kinds of games in the same franchise. People complain it's too much Horizon.

But, turn Mario into a furry, stick a water-powered jetpack up his ass, or hand him a soccer ball, after 97 other Mario titles, and you've got a GOTY on your hands. I love Mario, to be clear. But, being okay with Nintendo milking something to the extent they have, while chastising Sony for having the audacity to see what they can do with a newer franchise that, like it or not, has managed to do very well? That is some pathetic kind of gatekeeping mentality.

Even people who aren't Mario fans just shrug when another is announced, but then rage on the internet when a new Horizon is coming. Ya'll need to chill the fuck out. Put the lame scorecards down, and just play some games.

 

[Esppiral]

Wild Hearts is great, sad to see it floping.

 

[Fess]

I don't think SIE have problems selling their games either.

Also, people seem to forget that a lot of Nintendo best selling games have multiplayer options, MK8, AC: NH, Super Smash Bros, Pokemon etc.

As for Rise of the Ronin, it was 1.5m units a few weeks ago, without going on sale.

I think it will reach their 5m. units forecast

Yeah that's true. Plus, 140m consoles do some serious lifting of sales numbers by default.

But now that I see figures, 1.5m sounds bad for 60m PS5. Only sold to 2.5% of the console owners.
Should've had it on PC day 1. A late port of a game with little hype ain't going to do much unless they add something besides performance and visuals.