Is Sony creatively bankrupt?

DoubleClutch said:
You can jerk off all you want but criticisms about Concord were dismissed the same way.
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Tell me again who concord was ment for?

I am confused here man.

We all act like concord is another AAA game that turned out to be shit.

Absolutely nothing of value was lost . Infact it actually makes devs rething what and what not to push or release.
 
Feels like a problem of the entire large industry. Sky-high budgets and they have no idea how to keep it sustainable. They thought GAAS was the way (like many others) only to crash and fail when confronted with reality.
 
I still have a lot of faith in select Sony studios such as Santa Monica, Team ASOBI, Sucker Punch, Guerilla and Naughty Dog. I don't question their creativity one bit. Where my confidence lacks is with the SIE leadership and the heavy investment in Gaas. Already investment favors live service 55/45. By 2025, that will grow to 60/40 in favor of live service. I'm not saying abandon all live service. But if they put into their single player games what they have invested into live service, I think things would be a lot better on the games front.
 
The Cockatrice said:
Same can be said about Astro Bot lmao. Oh boy, a platformer, we havent seen those before huh? You just proved OP's point, that companies are indeed creatively bankrupt, but I highly doubt because we ran out of creative things. Cmon.
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It's a 3D platformer - which they haven't actually made as a big deal in a very long time - but the things it does moment-to-moment (at least in the VR and pack-in games) are absolutely creative. Shit, the pack-in is probably the only game to really fully utilise the DualSense, still, four years later.

If you want to see what creative exploration into genre really looks like in the AAA space then I guess you've got Death Stranding, where you can walk for 50 hours. Can't say I've played it, but i'll get round to it. I'm happy finding the weird and wonderful stuff in indies, where we got Neon White only two years ago and is unlike anything I've ever played; but Sony aren't making that and giving it the marketing budget they once gave to Killzone.
 
Gaiff said:
unimpressed michael keaton GIF


Sony Santa Monica and ND are both working on new IPs.
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AV said:
Astro Bot is out on Friday and you're asking this now?
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We obviously need to wait for SSM and ND's new games, however much like Wolverine, my belief is that all of this is very much the same and in line with with what we've already had.

Different coat, but that's all.

Astro Bot looks extremely polished but the platforming and movement looks extremely R&C, Tearaway and Astro's Playroom.
 
MALpractice311 said:
Tell me, what exactly is creative and innovative about Concord? Or Fairgames? What about those games sets them apart from the competitors? What about those games instills any hope that the half dozen other live service games that Sony still has in production will be creative and innovative?
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I wasn't referring to those games, made for a non-existing audience. Nor to live service games in general.

I'm referring to the fact that the video games market has been significantly stagnant for at least a full generation.
Everyone on forums seems to want a new Rez or something like that, yet I struggle to remember a single breakthrough game, a single success story that really shook this market in the last few years that isn't a high-budget production and/or isn't heavily derivative. Even a game like Hollow Knight wouldn't exist without the success of Dark Souls. When push comes to shove, most gamers reject new control schemes, new themes, actual gameplay innovations, and anything that can't be played at 4K 120fps on the newest PC hardware and looks better than a movie. I mean, most people even here are more than happy to renounce the clearly superior 60fps framerate if they can have RT and shadows and whatever is cool in graphics this week.
 
No they are not, but they grew themselves an audience that wants cinematics with top notch graphics + realisitc motions and expressions + hours of cutscenes. Those games are very expensive and you can't take big riscs with design choices.
You want creative games? Look for AA or Indies.
 
Topher said:
I still have a lot of faith in select Sony studios such as Santa Monica, Team ASOBI, Sucker Punch, Guerilla and Naughty Dog. I don't question their creativity one bit. Where my confidence lacks is with the SIE leadership and the heavy investment in Gaas. Already investment favors live service 55/45. By 2025, that will grow to 60/40 in favor of live service. I'm not saying abandon all live service. But if they put into their single player games what they have invested into live service, I think things would be a lot better on the games front.
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I think if they want to do MP focused games use older IPs that have been absent for a while.

Like Socom would be absolutely perfect right now and it's unreal they're not touching that IP.
 
nah they just take some more from nintendo... like with GOW... making play like Zelda OOT or astrobot ripping off all 3d mario gameplay mechanics ever made. Sony still has a lot to rip off from nintendo.

they will be fine as long as nintendo keeps innovating gameplay.


:messenger_sunglasses:
 
"They had home run after home run. It's been a steady decline ever since."

It's not that I don't understand your point. I'm hoping we get lots more titles for smaller IP like motorstorm, wipeout, modnation racers etc.

But at the end of the day, commercially, Sony first party has been taken to new heights this past decade.

How many Playstation series had 10m sellers before 2013? Gran Turismo.

Now post-ps4 launch? The Last of Us, Uncharted, Horizon, God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman.

They've had 3 games break their fastest ever selling game record in the past 2 years.

I do hope we start to see a more diverse lineup of smaller titles but Sony's releases over the last several years have been phenomenally successful.

Sony are doing what they're doing because it sells.
 
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XXL said:
I think if they want to do MP focused games use older IPs that have been absent for a while.

Like Socom would be absolutely perfect right now and it's unreal they're not touching that IP.
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Exactly. In my mind, the PS3 gen had the perfect ratio of single player and multiplayer games. Wish they could get back to that instead of.......whatever this shit is.
 
Bit of a silly question, Sony is quite obviously still financing and putting out creative games. Some of the management decisions have been rather suspect, but most of the game output from them and partners have been great.
 
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DoubleClutch said:
You're missing the point. Even if Astro Bot becomes the new Super Mario Galaxy, it's one game in what used to be a sea of heavy hitters.
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Helldivers 2 wasn't a heavy hitter this year?

Sony's studios aren't devoid of making great games, but they are suffering from the same issue most of the industry is facing - those games are taking longer to get out the door than ever before.
 
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No , Sony has a Lot of creative minds and ideas. Otherwise they Will be just buying studios they size of Activision tonget IPs
 
NeoIkaruGAF said:
Gamers are creatively bankrupt, encouraging devs and publishers to stay on the well-threaded path instead of rewarding creativity and innovation. Nothing stops the cinematic game / Marvel game train even if it's been hijacked by ideologists, but try a new IP and see what happens.

Sony is now passing through a phase Nintendo entered years ago. You know the narrative, "Nintendo only makes Mario, Zelda and Pokemon"? That's what sells the gazillions, my friend - everything else is background noise, as good as it may be. Meanwhile actual users of Nintendo hardware have been pointing out for more than a decade that Nintendo is making new IPs and original minor games all the time, and people were laughing their asses off. Now that it's Sony that's going through this, suddenly Astrobot is relevant - the saviour of PlayStation, even.
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Well said.
 
Skifi28 said:
So much doom and gloom today.
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I mean, at the very least, you gotta applaud this new narrative 😁
One ship is sinking so the rest have to follow suit, amirite ? 😉

That dumpster fire that was Concord doesn't help either so let people have their "win"
 
When a game cost $1-$10 million, took 1-2 years to develop, and needed 20-40 people to make, you could take a lot more swings.
 
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DoubleClutch said:
I know a lot of people love Playstation and I used to as well. But what happened? They used to have slam dunk IPs one after another. I'm not even talking about Concord, that's a one-off flop, but where is their creativity anymore?

Syphon Filter
Socom
Legend of Dragoon
Resistance
Infamous
Killzone
Jak and Daxter
Sly Cooper
Twisted Metal
Legacy of Kain
Motorstorm
Dark Cloud
Wipeout
and that's just for starters…

They had home run after home run. It's been a steady decline ever since.
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You do know Legacy of Kain is not a Sony IP, At one time they were even going to have a version of the Sega Saturn, like how they had a version of Soul Reaver on the Sega Dreamcast,
 
When you look at the fact they have released only 2 new IP's in 4 years. (Returnal and Concord). It does warrant the question.

And the sequels they do release generally feel more like 1.5's than sequels with new and fresh ideas. Spiderman 2, god of war 2, GT, Ratchet, Horizon. I like and appreciate sequels, but it's nice to have them mixed in with new IP.
 
Commoditization of the industry and investor expectations leads to fewer risks in general. They want Fortnite type bucks, but you can't capture that lightning in a bottle easily.

Some good stuff will still come out but that's why you have the big push for GAAS trash.
 
DoubleClutch said:

Is Sony creatively bankrupt?

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DoubleClutch said:
I'm not even talking about Concord, that's a one-off flop, but where is their creativity anymore?
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No, at all. If you play recent games they released like Helldivers 2 or Stellar Blade, or watch trailers of upcoming games like Astro Bot or Death Stranding 2 you'll see that you're totally wrong.

Next question

bundylove said:
The gaming industry as a whole is bankrupt.
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Many people has been saying this since the '80s, while at the same time don't buy a single innovative game and put their money instead on stablished genres and IPs which are pretty much the same than many other ones.
 
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Anyone else curious if the new Astrobot is going to have Concord Easter eggs in it?

Also, Astrobot is not the savior that people are expecting it to be. It'll be a solid game for sure but it won't do anything to change Sony's current course.
 
No, but because Sony focus in high budget AAA games, they take less risks than the PS2 gens where alot of games was like indie budget type of games. And this is true to most game publishers,, not only Sony.

Returnal was an example of Sony putting money in something more risky, and as great as the game is, it was not very well received compared with more safe games like Spider-Man 2, GoW Ragnorok, Horizon FW that broke 10 million sales very fast.

Soon will be getting Astrobot, that is one of the most creative games you could probably find coming from Playstation this gen.
 
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Give me MAG 2 you fucking cowards! We had 256 player servers on mother fucking PS3's and now we have literal miniature gaming PC's in our consoles and we get 5 v5 hero shooters and even Battlefield players crying and whining saying, "128 Players is toooo many!! Give us back 64 playersss!!" Fuck off. The more players in a war game the better. Though the devs have to know how to properly design maps unlike that shithole studio DICE Sweden.

But yes, Sony's creativity is absolutely horrible this generation. I'm hoping it picks up again with the launch of the PS5 pro. Not getting my hopes up.
 
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XXL said:
I think if they want to do MP focused games use older IPs that have been absent for a while.

Like Socom would be absolutely perfect right now and it's unreal they're not touching that IP.
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Yep. If they wanted a GAAS game, they should have launched a modern day version of MAG.
 
Games of Today said:
Give me MAG 2 you fucking cowards! We had 256 player servers on mother fucking PS3's and now we have literal miniature gaming PC's in our consoles and we get 5 v5 hero shooters and even Battlefield players crying and whining saying, "128 Players is toooo many!! Give us back 64 playersss!!" Fuck off. The more players in a war game the better. Though the devs have to know how to properly design maps unlike that shithole studio DICE Sweden.

But yes, Sony's creativity is absolutely horrible this generation. I'm hoping it picks up again with the launch of the PS5 pro. Not getting my hopes up.
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BF 128 Conquest is awesome and I hope the future titles have it. Granted some maps work better on 64, but I would miss it.
 
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Games of Today said:
Give me MAG 2 you fucking cowards! We had 256 player servers on mother fucking PS3's and now we have literal miniature gaming PC's in our consoles and we get 5 v5 hero shooters and even Battlefield players crying and whining saying, "128 Players is toooo many!! Give us back 64 playersss!!" Fuck off. The more players in a war game the better. Though the devs have to know how to properly design maps unlike that shithole studio DICE Sweden.

But yes, Sony's creativity is absolutely horrible this generation. I'm hoping it picks up again with the launch of the PS5 pro. Not getting my hopes up.
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LOL, see your post after I posted mine. MAG would have been the way to go if they wanted to try GAAS.
 
It doesn't matter if they or some of their studios are creatively bankrupt. We're going through a cleansing and rearrangement of the industry right now.

The money is there, everyone knows it. People are willing to pay the big bucks for games. It now falls to the developers to provide a game that makes people want to spend that hard earned cash.

If some companies continue to refuse to produce what costumers want and refuse to adapt, guess what happens?

We're already seeing the signs of a seismic shift in the industry. Asia can smell the blood in the water and are coming back with a vengeance (this is also the case for other things not gaming related, but it is happening for the same reason. See: Korean dramas, anime and manga in general, the success of Godzilla Minus One).

The ones that provide what the customers want will prevail, as it has always been. Adapt or die.
 
The Cockatrice said:
Some of you are on repeat always giving the same answer in these threads. BUT BUT ASTRO BOT as if one game dismisses genuine concerns lmao.
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Genuine concern? Dude Sony has been churning GOTY after Goty every year! What has MS done? Nothing!
Also if Nintendo ever try to make anything as technically advanced as Sony or even try to do something out of their "kiddy safe space" they would take 15 years to produce anything.

They are staying in early 2000s for a reason
 
I mean, they have been having to buy quite a few timed exclusives this generation for a reason, like FF16, Stellar Blade, Rise of Ronin…………… Black Myth: Wukong.

John Travolta Kiss GIF
 
SweetTooth said:
Oh... So this is "Dring" ?

I like how he stated his opinion as a fact, and people wonder why he skewes his wording about sales data! He is a hardcore Nintendo fanboy 😆
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SweetTooth said:
Best rated because of Nintendo bias, Ninty will sh#t the same thing for the millionth time and the autestic media journalists will eat it up like the best thing ever. Just like the crazy Apple fans
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SweetTooth said:
It sound crazy to you because you refuse to see the bias! Just like how Apple fans still thinks USB C was great innovation.

Nintendo in a nutshell:
- Low end hardware
- Online infrastructure thats 10 years behind everyone
- Copy pasted games that cater "mainly" to kids (Great gameplay)
- overwhelming media bias

You cant change my opinion 😆
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SweetTooth said:
No it didn't, but also great gameplay is not exclusive to kiddy Nintendo games
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SweetTooth said:
A sea of crying Nintendo babies is looming ... 😔

OT well deserved for the GOAT
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SweetTooth said:
Genuine concern? Dude Sony has been churning GOTY after Goty every year! What has MS done? Nothing!
Also if Nintendo ever try to make anything as technically advanced as Sony or even try to do something out of their "kiddy safe space" they would take 15 years to produce anything.

They are staying in early 2000s for a reason
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Brother this is all from today.

Are you ok?

Why the hell are you this rattled by Nintendo?
 
For the people scoffing at the idea that Sony is creatively bankrupt. Please lend us some insight as to why they aren't?

Is it because of sales figures? Or maybe the GOTY nominations from Geoff Keighley and the other outlets that members of Gaf claim to hate until they conveniently dont. Maybe the water physics in your scripted boat ride in GoW, or the forced walking in TLOU while being taught how to carry and use a ladder. The fast loading in SM2? Clearly Sony is just cranking out banger after banger.

Don't get me wrong, i am clearly in the minority bcause sales figures speak for themselves but successful games have nothing to do with creativity. I'm not saying either that these games are terrible but they are 100% lowest common denominator mass audience fluff.

Even something like Returnal scared many Sony diehards away because its a roguelike. I do give Sony props for allowing Housemarque to see their vision through.
 
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DoubleClutch said:
I know a lot of people love Playstation and I used to as well. But what happened? They used to have slam dunk IPs one after another. I'm not even talking about Concord, that's a one-off flop, but where is their creativity anymore?

Syphon Filter
Socom
Legend of Dragoon
Resistance
Infamous
Killzone
Jak and Daxter
Sly Cooper
Twisted Metal
Legacy of Kain
Motorstorm
Dark Cloud
Wipeout
and that's just for starters…

They had home run after home run. It's been a steady decline ever since.
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None of those games were big sellers and most weren't considered above average. What is Legacy of Kain doing there?

I like those games but this is revisionist as heck!
 
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