ByWatterson
Member
Astro Bot literally comes out tomorrow what the fuck
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Is Sony creatively bankrupt?
- Thread starter DoubleClutch
- Start date
Firestartah
Member
One game ??? Didnt they cancel Last of Us Online (which had a huge budget and the thing ND focused on for years after Last2) and also cancelled Deviation Studio gaas game ? You think those 2 games got cancelled cause they looked good ? They thought Concord looked good, so imagine those other 2.
And thats not even taking into account upcoming dead on arrival bombas like Fairgame$. They have no idea what they doing anymore, they just pump out 250mil budget cinematic SP games that come out once per generation and then some gaas failures. And yes they arent the only ones with this problem, but OP wanted to focus on them in this thread.
Hell, imagine if Marathon bombs, what happens with Bungie, that 2billion investment, all those employees. Nah dude, things are BAD.
foamdino
Member
AstroBot comes out in <checks calendar> 1 day...
"Are Sony creatively bankrupt??"
Did you play the pack-in AstroBot game? The *GPU song itself* answers that question - no they're not creatively bankrupt, the western side of Sony has been chasing $$ over everything else (like all western studios) and this has caused them to lose focus.
However the dev relations side of Sony has been on fire and this gen has been the *best* gen ever for good games - regardless of "exclusive" or not coming out of Asia in general and Japan specifically.
"Are Sony creatively bankrupt??"
Did you play the pack-in AstroBot game? The *GPU song itself* answers that question - no they're not creatively bankrupt, the western side of Sony has been chasing $$ over everything else (like all western studios) and this has caused them to lose focus.
However the dev relations side of Sony has been on fire and this gen has been the *best* gen ever for good games - regardless of "exclusive" or not coming out of Asia in general and Japan specifically.
atyourservice
Member
I don't know about Sony being creatively bankrupt. Maybe risk averse would be more apt. Then again, I see them for what they are, just a publisher and hardware oem, rather than the actual developers who make these games.
With respect to game development. These publishers "Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo" are no different to the people who review pitches in dragons den or private investors for an indie game or something. I don't understand why people treat them like anything more. It doesn't happen for the music industry, nobody asks "Is UMG creatively bankrupt".
They have multiple departments that contribute to the success of a game, but the developers are the core. Fire everyone else at sony and the developers could still release a game on their own. The developers should be the ones who are questioned about creativity. "Sony" might mandate a studio to "make a platformer with liveservice battlepass integration" but the developers are the ones who decide whether or not the end result is considered creative by you.
If the question was switched to "Are sony studios creatively bankrupt" people would say "well, studios don't make decisions on what they can make and there are so many studios with differing expertise, so it's not about the studios being creatively bankrupt, it's about the publisher being risk averse".
tldr; sony may be risk averse, but they don't have the potential to be creative. Only their studios do. I believe the distinction is important enough to be nitpicky about
With respect to game development. These publishers "Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo" are no different to the people who review pitches in dragons den or private investors for an indie game or something. I don't understand why people treat them like anything more. It doesn't happen for the music industry, nobody asks "Is UMG creatively bankrupt".
They have multiple departments that contribute to the success of a game, but the developers are the core. Fire everyone else at sony and the developers could still release a game on their own. The developers should be the ones who are questioned about creativity. "Sony" might mandate a studio to "make a platformer with liveservice battlepass integration" but the developers are the ones who decide whether or not the end result is considered creative by you.
If the question was switched to "Are sony studios creatively bankrupt" people would say "well, studios don't make decisions on what they can make and there are so many studios with differing expertise, so it's not about the studios being creatively bankrupt, it's about the publisher being risk averse".
tldr; sony may be risk averse, but they don't have the potential to be creative. Only their studios do. I believe the distinction is important enough to be nitpicky about
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
Sony knocked it out of the park during PS3/PS4 with their first party titles but PS5 has been their worst gen ever.
I can only think of a handful of good games released for the PS5.
Returnal, Helldivers 2, Ratchet and Clank, and likely Astrobot - I can't think of anything else.
God of War Ragnarok sucked.
Spiderman 2 sucked.
Concord sucked major balls.
I can only think of a handful of good games released for the PS5.
Returnal, Helldivers 2, Ratchet and Clank, and likely Astrobot - I can't think of anything else.
God of War Ragnarok sucked.
Spiderman 2 sucked.
Concord sucked major balls.
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DoubleClutch
Gold Member
Returnal, Helldivers, and Ratchet and Clank are also on PC, so there isn’t even a reason to have their console if you have a gaming PC.
Almost like they’re becoming Sega.
Roberts
Member
It is not creatively bankrupt, but they sure as hell are safe. Most of their big games are focused on being prestige type stories of Oscar bait variety - humourless, heavy-handed and devoid of any kind of eccentricity or weirdness. That sells, of course, but it bores me. And their recent attempts at humour (mostly via Insomniac) are just painfully unfunny. There are times when that approach works like magic, for example, 2018's God of War mostly because it feels like it is doing its own unique thing which is ironic, because it is a reboot.
Lupin25
Member
Damn, no one said this when Helldivers 2 came out…
How quickly the tables turn lol.
Also, as much as I liked his ambition, I have a theory (even though I do believe the guy was just exhausted), Jim Ryan partially left for an overzealous live-service strategy.
He helped invest too much into an over saturated genre and ultimately, Sony heads must’ve seen this at a wrong time knowing they too wanted tons of GaaS initially, and probably made Ryan a bit of a scapegoat here (especially at a time after COVID, we’ve seen a number of games rapidly die out).
They switched gears on PlayStation leadership, cut down on a number of this live-service crap, only to leave a select few that either looked the most promising (Helldivers 2), we’re gained directly through acquisition (Fairgame$, Concord), or were simply too deep in the dev cycle (Bend’s new GaaS IP, Guerilla’s Horizon MP).
There will clearly be ND, SSM, Insomniac, Sucker Punch & now Team Asobi to carry the load, but…
It’s a very risky investment that we will have to live with for awhile.
How quickly the tables turn lol.
Also, as much as I liked his ambition, I have a theory (even though I do believe the guy was just exhausted), Jim Ryan partially left for an overzealous live-service strategy.
He helped invest too much into an over saturated genre and ultimately, Sony heads must’ve seen this at a wrong time knowing they too wanted tons of GaaS initially, and probably made Ryan a bit of a scapegoat here (especially at a time after COVID, we’ve seen a number of games rapidly die out).
They switched gears on PlayStation leadership, cut down on a number of this live-service crap, only to leave a select few that either looked the most promising (Helldivers 2), we’re gained directly through acquisition (Fairgame$, Concord), or were simply too deep in the dev cycle (Bend’s new GaaS IP, Guerilla’s Horizon MP).
There will clearly be ND, SSM, Insomniac, Sucker Punch & now Team Asobi to carry the load, but…
It’s a very risky investment that we will have to live with for awhile.
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Mephisto40
Member
The best games they've ever produced have been made of the past 2 gens, what on earth are you on about
OuterLimits
Member
Their variety and quality across many genres was arguably the best in the industry from PS1-PS3. Heck, I replayed Journey again the other day(PS4) and surprisingly met another player halfway through. I forgot how fun it was to finish the game when traveling with someone.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Unfortunately those days loooong gone for Sony’s first party.
dragonyeuw
Member
Compared to the past? Yes they are, but that's an industry wide issue, hell its not even limited to gaming. All entertainment media being made now has to not only make money, it has to make ALL the fucking money. So nobody is willing to take major leaps/risks. Not with the cost and time of modern development( in the AAA space). Hell, alot of the stuff we miss from days past wouldn't be greenlit today. Some bean counter would have determined there's not enough ROI on it.
Games of Today
Member
Sure, all out war that never ends, monetize weapon skins and soldier cosmetics. essentially Helldivers but PvP with hundreds of players.
Mownoc
Member
Really the timing of this thread couldn't have been better. They release their most creative game in many years the day after and it's their best received game in 6 years too lol.
MALpractice311
Member
Right. But I think that's the point we're trying to make. Sony needs more of these and fewer Concords and Fairgames, but they seem to have doubled down on the latter.
Really the timing of this thread couldn't have been better. They release their most creative game in many years the day after and it's their best received game in 6 years too lol.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
The unfortunate business reality is that the Concords and Fairgames in this industry generate much more revenue and profits than a game like Astrobot could ever do.
We're the old lot. The newer generation much prefer GaaS live-service shooters with silly AF cosmetics.
MALpractice311
Member
In theory, GAAS will make more. But the reality is, they're expensive and risky to make and if they don't immediately find an audience, the game is done for. See Concord, Suicide Squad, Redfall, Hyenas, that Amazon game that I can't remember, and Anthem, among many others.
Single player games can be developed faster and cheaper and have a more reliable clientele.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Sethbacca
Member
If you're fans of Sony games you're not waiting the 1 or 2+ years to *maybe* play them on PC. Honestly, that's such a non argument. If you want to play the games when they release you need a PS5 other than GAAS games like Helldivers.
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ByWatterson
Member
They've released two service games under the new initiative. One was a smash success, the other was pulled immediately after release.
There is one remaining to come.
I think they're pretty clear-eyed about what works and what doesn't.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Another prematurely created Sony Doom thread on GAF. This thread has backfired spectacularly with Astro Bot’s release to critical acclaim.
Del_X
Member
Yes but so is most of the industry. It's all design-by-committee. Notice how the most viral/popular single player games all have a visionary team behind them? Where are they now? Making fucking HBO shows and pretending to be Hollywood elite. That mostly holds true in the west. Japan/Korea/China seems fine with a few Easter European devs also having some balls to go along with their passion.
Evil Smurf King
Member
I don´t think so, brother. See this thread: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/astro-bot-review-thread.1674616/unread
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
True. There are hits and misses. But there are misses in single-player games, too: Forspoken, Hellblade 2, Gotham Knights, Callisto Protocol,
Immortals of Aveum, etc.
And GaaS is high-risk and high-reward.
Companies that have stable income coming from single-player game sales would want to chase these high-risk-high-reward games every now and then. And, to be honest, it makes business sense.
And I almost exclusively play these single-player games that Sony makes. Didn't buy Concord. Bought Black Myth Wukong, and will play Astrobot on Day 1!
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Sid Of Bee
Member
This is just the state of the industry, the same is true with Microsoft and Xbox.
I really miss the 6th generation and early Xbox 360 era. We used to get so many more creative IPS and games in general. But now these companies are looking for hits and are spending big money to get them. The teams are larger for development and the risks are more adverse to ensure success. But that's the irony. By trying to copy the big hitters and follow their paths while trying to usurp them, they spend tons of money and time only for a larger chance of failure due to competing with the established properties. Then they shutter the studios and we lose these great teams that could produce possibly many awesome games with a different business mindset.
It's just funny because Nintendo is the only one that saw this coming and avoided it by creating their own market, concentrating on their IPs, and curating their relationships with development teams.
I really miss the 6th generation and early Xbox 360 era. We used to get so many more creative IPS and games in general. But now these companies are looking for hits and are spending big money to get them. The teams are larger for development and the risks are more adverse to ensure success. But that's the irony. By trying to copy the big hitters and follow their paths while trying to usurp them, they spend tons of money and time only for a larger chance of failure due to competing with the established properties. Then they shutter the studios and we lose these great teams that could produce possibly many awesome games with a different business mindset.
It's just funny because Nintendo is the only one that saw this coming and avoided it by creating their own market, concentrating on their IPs, and curating their relationships with development teams.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Fixed.Seeing how Astro Bot has saved Sony, saved Gaming and saved my marriage can it save Concord?
I posted this elsewhere but I think it could work.
Zacfoldor
Member
I wonder if you averaged in all the losses from the giant bombs like Concord if GAAS is really that great. Like I'm sure it brings in a lot of total revenue for certain games but tell that to Square Enix, ya know. Like, we see the revenue for the wins but we don't track the scope of the losses.
I prefer to think that I'm the right lot and the wrong lot will eventually realize they are getting screwed by playing a quarter of a real game and paying 1000x more for it....not so much so they can play the game, but rather so they can have new project to talk about for their online discord lobby friends. They use these games to socialize, the game itself is secondary to playing with friends, it is hard to compete with, but talk about being creatively bankrupt side noise garbage that I have no interest in. Imagine trying to play a gaas alone and preferring that to single player gaming. It's insane.
MarV0
Gold Member
Plus you can have numerous successful SP games in a year while a successful GAAS comes out once every 2-3 years. GAAS are industry vampires that suck all liquidity out of their playerbase , only a very few can be sustained.
I would argue a steady stream of high quality SP games is the safest way to generate a healthy revenue stream.
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fart town usa
Member
It's one game though.
Sony is still a shell of its former self and shows no signs of changing, just the occasional release of a game that people actually want. We're still in the thick of Sad Dad Simulator/GAAS Sony.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
This is all subjective crap. I’ve been having a blast with my PS5 and don’t feel this way at all.
It's one game though.
Sony is still a shell of its former self and shows no signs of changing, just the occasional release of a game that people actually want. We're still in the thick of Sad Dad Simulator/GAAS Sony.
darrylgorn
Member
What do you expect?
We don't have an infinite number of ideas in our heads. Every industry has its decline after we've exhausted every concept.
We don't have an infinite number of ideas in our heads. Every industry has its decline after we've exhausted every concept.
fart town usa
Member
I love my PS5 too.
Redeeming Casualty
Neo Member
I don't think they are creatively bankrupt, but there output of games hasn't really attracted me to buy the PS5. I think games like Astro Bot, Returnal, and Demon Souls look awesome. Those games I think are worth buying for me to try out and play. I never was into the online only mulitplayer games they were creating/promoting, or did I want to play the remakes of games that I have already on my PS4. My enthusiasm was wanning early on because my whole thought process during the early days of the PS5 was exciting until I realized I could just buy some of those games on the PS4. I mean why buy a $500 console to play God of War Ragnorak when I could just keep the console I currently own that I can play it on. I know its third parties also but the same thought I had when I wanted to play Street Fighter 6 and Elden Ring. I still am optimistic though and will keep looking forward to what games come out for the console. Hopeful one of them catches my attention.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Most of their upcoming GAAS are new IP. People ignore that fact because "PvP bAd".