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[SlimySnake]

Tbh, I think the best approach with BF6 is just getting a solid all round experience out of the door, focusing resources on getting back on form, back to basics and winning over players again. I think that visually it's clean and tidy; and what it needs to be right now.

Then, hopefully with a BF7 in 2028-2029 they can drastically scale up the technical/visual aspects. Perhaps getting a basic low precision RTGI + Reflections as standard on current-gen consoles, then scaling to comprehensive RTGI, AO & Reflections on next-gen consoles/mid-range PC, and full Path Tracing on higher end PC. Allowing them to completely do away with baking in dev and baking data in storage as a baseline.

yeah, its fine for what it is. it is a multiplayer game first and foremost and you cant have 1080p in a game with this much going on and this many players. maybe last gen 1080p 60 fps was enough because games werent pushing this amount of detail and other visual effects but this game is so busy, so full of debris, smoke and other visual effects, i cant imagine how difficult it must be to find players with a low base resolution like 1080p.

Maybe, just maybe, they couldve pulled a black hawk down, and made the SP separately on a brand new version of the engine. they already had Motive, Ripple effect and Criterion working on it separately from DICE so it was probably possible, but might have required two separate installs just like Black Hawk Down.

Ds2 is only considered incredible looking by df and the sdf, we know it's not really an hard task to look better than that cringe piece of shit of a game

i was talking about cutscenes in DS2 which are absolutely stunning. Rivaled only by Hellblade 2.
i know you fell off the game early on, but youtube the flashback scene of a young neil. Absolutely insane visuals.

 

[Wolzard]

Gif format help giving the cg look.

In my opinion, what really helps is a photography trick, using cloudy days.
The diffuse light of cloudy days creates softer, more uniform lighting conditions. Diffused light reduces harsh shadows and exaggerated contrasts, making it easier to render realistically. Soft shadows better mimic human perception of the real world, as our brains are accustomed to processing environments with less harsh lighting. With less extreme contrast, object textures appear more detailed and with balanced colors, without overexposed or overly dark areas. This creates a sense of greater visual fidelity.
This type of lighting also makes rendering easier, as it requires fewer shadows, lighting, and reflections, which can overload hardware. This allow developers to focus on textures, particles, or atmospheric effects (like fog), which increase immersion.
And finally, the atmosphere. Cloudy scenes create a melancholic atmosphere, reinforcing the feeling of a "living world."

 

[SlimySnake]

The Latest Wukong update turned off Lumen on the PS5's performance mode in order to hit 60 fps without using FSR framegen. The results are hilarious.

What's not funny is the complete lack of awareness by UE5 haters. They finally see just how shitty the game looks without lumen, and still hold on to their belief that lumen is not needed. The thread is all about how awful the game looks now in performance mode, well yeah, thats what you all were clamoring for lol. They literally got what they wanted and are still upset. Thankfully the industry has adopted RTGI and lumen and there is no going back.

 

[kevboard]

What's not funny is the complete lack of awareness by UE5 haters. They finally see just how shitty the game looks without lumen, and still hold on to their belief that lumen is not needed. The thread is all about how awful the game looks now in performance mode, well yeah, thats what you all were clamoring for lol. They literally got what they wanted and are still upset. Thankfully the industry has adopted RTGI and lumen and there is no going back.

the only reason it looks this bad without lumen, is because it was never designed without Lumen in mind.
Lumen is dogshit. just because these devs used it as a shortcut, with no decent alternative, doesn't make it magically good.

wanna see what a flickering lightbulb in Silent Hill f Looks like thanks to Lumen?


this is supposed to represent a lightbulb that goes off and on quickly, but looks like someone is moving a dimmer switch up and down, that somehow only affects the center of the light as well.
Lumen is disgusting shit that should never be used in games like Silent Hill f or Black Myth

 

[mrMUR_96]

thats a different topic. IO and SSDs were never going to improve visuals. At best, they would allow for faster asset loading but i said this is over five years ago, and i will say it again, the GPU is what renders those assets and geometry. you will always be limited by those 10 tflops and 448 gbps of vram bandwidth.

All this IO nonsense was never going to be used by developers anyway. It was just something Cerny jerked off to at night, but most developers are trying to push ray tracing, physics, NPC counts, destruction, fancy setpieces, bigger and richer open worlds, cinematics that rival movies, etc. No one is thinking hey, lets change our entire design paradigms and make something that takes advantage of this gimmick hardware. Well, insomniac did do this with ratchet but like who cares if you can portal from one world to another. the fact that it was limited to scripted setpieces proves that the tech isnt even ready for that specific use case since devs had to load it up in the background as they pushed players through other scripted sequences.

IO is important for fancy setpieces and bigger/richer worlds. Look at the sandman fight in sm2 for example, that wouldn't have worked without the new IO capabilities.

 

[SlimySnake]

the only reason it looks this bad without lumen, is because it was never designed without Lumen in mind.

So in order to make games look next gen, devs need to stop using the lighting feature that already makes the game look next gen. Got it.

 

[SlimySnake]

IO is important for fancy setpieces and bigger/richer worlds. Look at the sandman fight in sm2 for example, that wouldn't have worked without the new IO capabilities.

Nixxes was able to port it to PC without the need for the IO block in the PS5. Game runs just fine even on low end hardware. Just like Ratchet which runs at 60 fps on the steamdeck.

 

[mrMUR_96]

Nixxes was able to port it to PC without the need for the IO block in the PS5. Game runs just fine even on low end hardware. Just like Ratchet which runs at 60 fps on the steamdeck.

I'm not saying custom IO was needed, but at least the move to proper nvme and excluding support for hdd was a big jump and it's nice to see games making use of it.

 

[IDWhite]

thats a different topic. IO and SSDs were never going to improve visuals. At best, they would allow for faster asset loading but i said this is over five years ago, and i will say it again, the GPU is what renders those assets and geometry. you will always be limited by those 10 tflops and 448 gbps of vram bandwidth.

All this IO nonsense was never going to be used by developers anyway. It was just something Cerny jerked off to at night, but most developers are trying to push ray tracing, physics, NPC counts, destruction, fancy setpieces, bigger and richer open worlds, cinematics that rival movies, etc. No one is thinking hey, lets change our entire design paradigms and make something that takes advantage of this gimmick hardware. Well, insomniac did do this with ratchet but like who cares if you can portal from one world to another. the fact that it was limited to scripted setpieces proves that the tech isnt even ready for that specific use case since devs had to load it up in the background as they pushed players through other scripted sequences.

They improve visuals. I/O and SSD's allow for greater complexity in the visual composition. They make it easier to load a greater variety of assets and with greater detail. Of course you're going to be limited by the GPU and VRAM capabilities, but they are not a huge problem when implementing systems like nanite, data compression, virtual textures and AI reconstruction tech.
Developers don't take advantage of that architecture because the performance of how you move data from one memory to another isn't as easily scalable as rendering techniques that rely mostly on the number of pixels.

 

[SlimySnake]

They improve visuals. I/O and SSD's allow for greater complexity in the visual composition. They make it easier to load a greater variety of assets and with greater detail. Of course you're going to be limited by the GPU and VRAM capabilities, but they are not a huge problem when implementing systems like nanite, data compression, virtual textures and AI reconstruction tech.
Developers don't take advantage of that architecture because the performance of how you move data from one memory to another isn't as easily scalable as rendering techniques that rely mostly on the number of pixels.

SSD yes, I/O, eh?

If the IO was such a game changer, PS studios would be leading the graphics race right now. Like you said, developers dont take advantage of it and I agree. You and I just differ on why. If it was some kind of secret sauce that allowed devs to double the GPU performance, everyone would be doing it. I just dont think its fair to developers like Ubisoft Quebec who have gone above and beyond implementing virtualized geometry, ray traced GI and reflections, incredible wind and destruction physics, to state they didnt max out the hardware. just because they didnt bother using an IO block that wont have much of an impact on the game's visuals anyway. Especially when over 50% of their sales are going to come from platforms other than PS5.

 

[GymWolf]

yeah, its fine for what it is. it is a multiplayer game first and foremost and you cant have 1080p in a game with this much going on and this many players. maybe last gen 1080p 60 fps was enough because games werent pushing this amount of detail and other visual effects but this game is so busy, so full of debris, smoke and other visual effects, i cant imagine how difficult it must be to find players with a low base resolution like 1080p.

Maybe, just maybe, they couldve pulled a black hawk down, and made the SP separately on a brand new version of the engine. they already had Motive, Ripple effect and Criterion working on it separately from DICE so it was probably possible, but might have required two separate installs just like Black Hawk Down.


i was talking about cutscenes in DS2 which are absolutely stunning. Rivaled only by Hellblade 2.
i know you fell off the game early on, but youtube the flashback scene of a young neil. Absolutely insane visuals.

Too bad cutscenes are a very small part of that game so for 90% of the time you play with mid ass graphic.

And no i don't think any model in that game reach senua quality until they get rid of that lucid\plastiline look that kojima love so much.

 

[Myuni]

The Latest Wukong update turned off Lumen on the PS5's performance mode in order to hit 60 fps without using FSR framegen. The results are hilarious.

What's not funny is the complete lack of awareness by UE5 haters. They finally see just how shitty the game looks without lumen, and still hold on to their belief that lumen is not needed. The thread is all about how awful the game looks now in performance mode, well yeah, thats what you all were clamoring for lol. They literally got what they wanted and are still upset. Thankfully the industry has adopted RTGI and lumen and there is no going back.

Honest question (I'm currently viewing on a tablet): Just to be sure, the brighter ones have Lumen deactivated, right?
The first one is pretty obvious, so this is the shitty one:

The second is way harder for me to discern, cause it could also be a stylistic choice to render this scene brighter and with less contrast. Anyway, that's the one without Lumen:

and those are with Lumen enabled, I strongly assume:

What I want to say... if it's even challenging for someone like me sometimes (who usually thinks of oneself as a nitpicking graphicswhore), the overwhelmingly vast majority of gamers won't notice at all, I guess.
Or I'm having a bad eye day

 

[Yoshichan]

Honest question (I'm currently viewing on a tablet): Just to be sure, the brighter ones have Lumen deactivated, right?
The first one is pretty obvious, so this is the shitty one:

The second is way harder for me to discern, cause it could also be a stylistic choice to render this scene brighter and with less contrast. Anyway, that's the one without Lumen:

and those are with Lumen enabled, I strongly assume:

What I want to say... if it's even challenging for someone like me sometimes (who usually thinks of oneself as a nitpicking graphicswhore), the overwhelmingly vast majority of gamers won't notice at all, I guess.
Or I'm having a bad eye day

bro, go to your pc right now

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

RTGI is literally what makes new games feel "next gen". You can tell a mile off which games don't have it with the glowing objects in shadows now.

Hopefully by next gen EVERY SINGLE GAME uses RTGI for it's lighting including mp games like BF7. If they can do it on SW Outlaws (and AC Shadows) in handheld mode on Switch 2 then they can do it on every single PS6 game considering their GPU's will be 15x more powerful (on the low end estimated of 30TFLOPs) than Switch 2's GPU when in handheld mode (1.5TFLOPs).

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Don't know what to think about Yotei. It can look really nice:

But also like that:

Very uneven graphics for sure. Like SlimySnake mentioned, overcast weather does make the game look worse vs. clear sky (that seems rare).

Like people or real world environments there's not a videogame that always looks amazing esp with real time of day in play. This thread is evidence that you can take the worst possible screenshots of a game in order to support your opinion lol with that last picture of Cloud as a recent example.

 

[adamsapple]

Battlefield 6 - Series X in Balanced mode.

Honestly, kinda underwhelming after the reveals. A fully souped up PC can probably ramp up the settings considerably, but on the console it's just .. ok.

Most of the campaign is linear missions, the one mission which is a bigger open area, you can see the mid/far range trees turn into 2D sprites.

The lighting quality is just OK but things like shadows and SSAO really stand out as being poor for a 2025 AAA game, easier to notice in close-ups. In the sun-lit areas, if you fight enemies under shadows, they look like they're surrounded by an angelic halo from head to toe, the SSAO is pretty bad.

The fucking shadows don't even line up with your character models legs when looking down in first person. A lot of the campaign missions also take place just adjacent to big valleys etc to give the illusion of it being a bigger area, but mind you, 8 out of the 9 campaign missions are basically as linear as your typical CoD mission.


Look at all the 2D sprite trees in the first pic, smh.

-

-

Note the poor ground textures and disconnected shadow in this pic, this is with the HD Content texture pack installed.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

That spiderman 2 ps5 trailer was 3 or more years before game actual release, probably was target render, for wolverine trailer I found some scene with lightning conditions similar to some scenes on miles morales cgi trailer and they looks identical, also there are some other scenes that looks really amazing, that said currently there is no released game matched spider man 2 first trailer, even you can say wolverine last trailer was far closer to it's CGI Trailer than Spiderman 2 to That trailer which they said it was realtime , maybe we got there with spiderman 3 on ps6 with full path tracing and neural Arrays

Honestly, Spiderman 3 on PS6 could look like this...

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

hellblade 2 is barely even a game though. the game is extremely linear with no combat outside of 4-5 combat sections where you literally cannot move. you spend the entire game walking through glorified corridors but expecting other devs to make graphics like that in real games where there are more than 2 characters on screen at once and actual systems in play is kinda unfair to those developers who dont have the luxury to make a non-game like hellblade 2.

even gta6 doesnt look as good as hellblade 2. last gen was the same, the order 1886 is basically a corridor shooter where you actually dont even fire your weapon for like 70% of the game. literally 2/3rds of the game is a walking simulator. and when you do get into a firefight the game is extremely linear. RDR2 which many consider to be the best looking game of last gen doesnt compare to the fidelity of the order 1886.

These games should be praised, sure, but using them as some kind of industry standard or using them to insult other developers who have an obligation to deliver a game with actual moment to moment gameplay is simply unfair.

Devs who have implemented ray tracing (especially RTGI), utilized mesh shaders, utilized cpu to push physics effects, ssd to improve faster traversal, and didnt leave half the gpu power on the table by targeting native 4k have absolutely maxed out the console hardware. can they optimize these new technologies further and get maybe 20-25% better performance by the end of the generation? Sure. But even then its not an engine issue, its simply hardware limitations. Ubisoft Massive, Ubisoft Quebec, Bloober, Game Science, Remedy, Striking Distance Studios and Respawn should all be praised for pushing the hardware to its limits. Much more so than Ninja Theory.

The definition of a "game" doesn't change based on opinions. I do agree with you to a point but the games I pointed out show that much better visuals are possible on actual "next gen" engines using "next gen" technology. Yes, the games I mentioned are an industry standard.

 

[mrMUR_96]

Battlefield 6 - Series X in Balanced mode.

Honestly, kinda underwhelming after the reveals. A fully souped up PC can probably ramp up the settings considerably, but on the console it's just .. ok.

Most of the campaign is linear missions, the one mission which is a bigger open area, you can see the mid/far range trees turn into 2D sprites.

The lighting quality is just OK but things like shadows and SSAO really stand out as being poor for a 2025 AAA game, easier to notice in close-ups. In the sun-lit areas, if you fight enemies under shadows, they look like they're surrounded by an angelic halo from head to toe, the SSAO is pretty bad.

The fucking shadows don't even line up with your character models legs when looking down in first person. A lot of the campaign missions also take place just adjacent to big valleys etc to give the illusion of it being a bigger area, but mind you, 8 out of the 9 campaign missions are basically as linear as your typical CoD mission.


Look at all the 2D sprite trees in the first pic, smh.

-

-

Note the poor ground textures and disconnected shadow in this pic, this is with the HD Content texture pack installed.

Nah it looks meh even on "overkill" settings on PC. very very dated tech. The campaign genuinely looks awful in a lot of spots when they have characters and other objects taking up a lot of screen area. I literally laughed a few times with how awful some parts looked, even in important cutscenes. I didn't take clips, but there's a moment when you complete a beach invasion and a fleet of helicopters fly over and they kept popping-in and out, looked genuinely broken or another moment when you're helping some guy bleeding out and the model is genuinely mobile-tier visually. The biggest issue actually playing is the very visible pop-in, it's so distracting. Objects, shadows, object LODs are basically always popping-in and out even maxed on pc. The rumours about it being rushed seem very evident. The only decent looking part is the destruction and effects work. At least the gameplay itself is a lot of fun in mp.
Side note: the audio work is great at least.

 

[ChiefDada]

Honestly, Spiderman 3 on PS6 could look like this...

Easily.