BlownUpRich
Member
WHAT?
Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
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Jack Howitzer
Member
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Like I said before, If PS4 can give us TLOU 2, The Order 1886, Spiderman and RDR2 on 1.84 TFLOPS, alot of current games should look like Marvel 1943 on the regular basis, 6x the power and what does PS5, Xbox Series X or most current gen PC games have to show for it? I'm pretty sure it comes from the greedy execs at the top, the old engines, DEI hires, laziness, COVID etc. The Witcher 4 SHOULD look like the tech demo, Ghost of Yotei SHOULD have all around better everything (I LOVEEEEEEE the visuals but not the technical failings). The engines that actually have the capabilities to give us microgeometry and RTGI actually give us "next gen" visuals. CGI in nature uses alot of geometry and usually is path traced and at least RTGI gives similar results... Engines like UE5, Anvil Next support microgeometry and you can almost always tell when looking at an UE5 game that its underlying technology is "next gen". One look at GTA 6 and you can see all of the "next gen" technologies being used. Most current games look like PS4 games at 4k with some RT at 60 fps. Thank god for Hellblade 2, that has the look of what I consider "next gen", the finely detailed face models, the attention to animation, the billions of polygons used in the assets, the RTGI, its truly like playing CGI, also shoutout to The Matrix Awakens demo....
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Konami cooked with this game.
yes, rocks look great but you have to give credit to the artists for some really stunning foliage and lighting choices in areas like this. UE5 has allowed devs to really achieve film quality visuals at times.
yes, rocks look great but you have to give credit to the artists for some really stunning foliage and lighting choices in areas like this. UE5 has allowed devs to really achieve film quality visuals at times.
Jack Howitzer
Member
its truly like playing CGI, also shoutout to The Matrix Awakens demo....
UE5 has allowed devs to really achieve film quality visuals at times.
Just so you know I'm lethal01 in disguise, you are totally wrong and you should feel ashamed about it, my nintendo gang and actually, any japanese studio made are masterpieces and looking way better than these slop and I'm not bothering explaining the reasons to u , goodeye/s
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Bojji
Member
This was the discussion between Mark Cerny and Sony CEO when PS5 Pro development started (Mark is Franklin of course)
Konami cooked with this game.
yes, rocks look great but you have to give credit to the artists for some really stunning foliage and lighting choices in areas like this. UE5 has allowed devs to really achieve film quality visuals at times.
MGS Delta has some weak textures here and there but nanite details can be pretty crazy at time. You can see welds here:
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YeulEmeralda
Linux User
So anyone know when we get Unreal 5 games that work well? I don't even care anymore whose fault it is just fix it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So anyone know when we get Unreal 5 games that work well? I don't even care anymore whose fault it is just fix it.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Bojji
Member
Don't know what to think about Yotei. It can look really nice:
But also like that:
Very uneven graphics for sure. Like
SlimySnake
mentioned, overcast weather does make the game look worse vs. clear sky (that seems rare).
But also like that:
Very uneven graphics for sure. Like
SlimySnake
mentioned, overcast weather does make the game look worse vs. clear sky (that seems rare).
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citcon2025 was today and Star Citizen devs shown their latest Genesis planet tech. And it is jawdropping
screens from link above. And that's not location or open world map. This is literally one of planets where they have this fidelity down to individual grass leaves.
screens from link above. And that's not location or open world map. This is literally one of planets where they have this fidelity down to individual grass leaves.
Negotiator101
Member
Yeah HB2 is phenomenal looking, but can we get those visuals in a game with a dozens of enemies and explosions etc? What's your opinion on Battlefield? I'm finding it a bit of a mixed bag but the VFX in the game IMO is very impressive.Like I said before, If PS4 can give us TLOU 2, The Order 1886, Spiderman and RDR2 on 1.84 TFLOPS, alot of current games should look like Marvel 1943 on the regular basis, 6x the power and what does PS5, Xbox Series X or most current gen PC games have to show for it? I'm pretty sure it comes from the greedy execs at the top, the old engines, DEI hires, laziness, COVID etc. The Witcher 4 SHOULD look like the tech demo, Ghost of Yotei SHOULD have all around better everything (I LOVEEEEEEE the visuals but not the technical failings). The engines that actually have the capabilities to give us microgeometry and RTGI actually give us "next gen" visuals. CGI in nature uses alot of geometry and usually is path traced and at least RTGI gives similar results... Engines like UE5, Anvil Next support microgeometry and you can almost always tell when looking at an UE5 game that its underlying technology is "next gen". One look at GTA 6 and you can see all of the "next gen" technologies being used. Most current games look like PS4 games at 4k with some RT at 60 fps. Thank god for Hellblade 2, that has the look of what I consider "next gen", the finely detailed face models, the attention to animation, the billions of polygons used in the assets, the RTGI, its truly like playing CGI, also shoutout to The Matrix Awakens demo....
Crayon
Member
The performance this gen was mostly burned on resolution and framerate. It's fine. A bit of a reset. I don't think we'll be wanting for more than 4k or 60fps next gen so we would get a bump. I say "would", because games are like 5 years behind hardware now. We'll finally get to see what the ps5 can really do when ps6 cross gen games are pushing it down to 30fps and 1080p. As of now, I'm kinda resigned to having underutilized hardware. It's not that bad. Tiny bit frustrating if I think about it too much, but not that bad.
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Negotiator101
Member
With GTA VI coming next year these consoles will be pushed way before PS6 and id say a few other games due next year as well are likely to push beyond anything we've seen up to now.
Crayon
Member
That's true. We'll see if GTA is an outlier, though. Only takes one game to show what he system can really do, but we could still end up having to wait for it to be the norm.
But now that I think about it, seeing just a couple examples will be great.
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mrMUR_96
Member
I'll upload some screenshots later, but damn I wish Mafia the old country would get some more love here. The character rendering is absurdly good, HB2 level at times, very offline cg look to it. Cutscenes in general look excellent. Character rendering in-game is a step above most games imo. UE5 being used well overall in this game, some occasional weak spots like mid-distance detail, but a huge step up from their previous titles and a definite generational leap. One of the better looking games this generation which is very impressive considering their lower budget. Side note, I loved the car handling, gave me gta 4 vibes and the audio work on cars and guns was top notch.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
There is a lot to love in Mafia. Great nanite implementation. Great lighting in interiors. Some really impressive draw distance, but i dont think it comes together all that well. For instance, the interior lighting in day time is really bad. It almost looks baked like last gen games. The outdoor lighting is a lot better, but still a bit flat in terms of the color grading they chose. I just dont like the look they are going for because it feels last gen despite using Lumen. Very cartoony and stylized. I prefer MGS3 color grading a whole lot more. And lastly, the character models are extremely uneven. Great in some cutscenes, really meh in others. Coming off of Death Stranding 2, it was like going back two generations. They need better cutscene lighting artists.
The next gen tech is there so it does shine at times, but i wouldnt put it in the top 5 UE5 games this gen.
mrMUR_96
Member
the indirect lighting bounce is really nice here tooThis was the discussion between Mark Cerny and Sony CEO when PS5 Pro development started (Mark is Franklin of course)
MGS Delta has some weak textures here and there but nanite details can be pretty crazy at time. You can see welds here:
mrMUR_96
Member
The game I played before Mafia was death stranding 2 and I was like wow this looks so much better than DS2
. I won't disagree on it bit being a bit uneven, but was far more consistent than DS2 for me. I quite liked the colour grading myself, very cinema-like imo.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
This post could be from pre PS5 launch in 2020.
To date there have been less than five games that look like a truly generational leap over PS4 lol.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
citcon2025 was today and Star Citizen devs shown their latest Genesis planet tech. And it is jawdropping
screens from link above. And that's not location or open world map. This is literally one of planets where they have this fidelity down to individual grass leaves.
Yup, watched the whole thing after the show and it's jaw dropping. Considering this is at a planet scale / solar system scale with no loadings and MMO, it really is like nothing else out there. And this is still without their RTGI.
nemiroff
Imagine flying there or building a base on that planet. You can make a green skin character, build a base in the swamps and call yourself Shrek! I can't wait to see also their revamp of the other two systems with this tech, holy shit!
super cut version without the talk
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I have been going over and over again. Trying to wrap my ahead around the warm reception to Wolverine.
Its inexplicable. Until it finally hit me. We have been beaten into submission. To the point we have no will to even want current-gen level graphics anymore. Its like a guy who gets no bitches so any whale that lands on his boat he settles with.
Just look at the spiderman 2 reveal trailer and its crazy how night and day it is with what we used to get excited for. Look at the 3d model of the lamp post, look at the pedestrian traffic signal 3d model, look at the density of the building meshes. Look at the lighting, the reflection and shadows. Look at the glass translucency from the door and window. Look at the smoke. Look at the density of the road mesh.
But now this is what people are excited for. Compare that trailer to this. The market scene for example is absolutely abhorrent.
Its a crime against GAMING!
The hardest choices require the strongest will. I WILL NOT bend the knee!
Its inexplicable. Until it finally hit me. We have been beaten into submission. To the point we have no will to even want current-gen level graphics anymore. Its like a guy who gets no bitches so any whale that lands on his boat he settles with.
Just look at the spiderman 2 reveal trailer and its crazy how night and day it is with what we used to get excited for. Look at the 3d model of the lamp post, look at the pedestrian traffic signal 3d model, look at the density of the building meshes. Look at the lighting, the reflection and shadows. Look at the glass translucency from the door and window. Look at the smoke. Look at the density of the road mesh.
But now this is what people are excited for. Compare that trailer to this. The market scene for example is absolutely abhorrent.
Its a crime against GAMING!
The hardest choices require the strongest will. I WILL NOT bend the knee!
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
We should be happy ...they finally caught up to Uncharted 4 in that market scene!
Msamy
Member
That spiderman 2 ps5 trailer was 3 or more years before game actual release, probably was target render, for wolverine trailer I found some scene with lightning conditions similar to some scenes on miles morales cgi trailer and they looks identical, also there are some other scenes that looks really amazing, that said currently there is no released game matched spider man 2 first trailer, even you can say wolverine last trailer was far closer to it's CGI Trailer than Spiderman 2 to That trailer which they said it was realtime , maybe we got there with spiderman 3 on ps6 with full path tracing and neural Arrays
Msamy
Member
Wolverine looks far Better than uc4, maybe they have some similar locations with same artistic look but graphically speaking wolverine looks far better
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I was joking tho that market scene in UC4 looked amazing and not far off from this
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Msamy
Member
Yes that market scene on UC4 was far ahead of its time, hope Naughty dog show us something amazing for this gen, I know their other project (uc5) for ps6 will be amazing
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
you can stay strong. I gave up around 2023. Lets face it, even UE5 games havent come close to the photorealism of the matrix awakens demo. We have to understand that current gen consoles just arent powerful enough, and appreciate games like James Bond, Wolverine, Crimson Desert, etc some of these games are already dropping below 1440p in their 30 fps modes. Its not a case where they are targeting native 4k like in Spider-Man 2 and ratchet. The game is running at 1440p which means they are using the gpu to push tech instead of just pixels.
Can't drop any lower. 1080p is just too low and ends up hiding most of the detail. At least when using non AI based upscaling solutions. At this point they are running into hardware limitations. They are utilizing ray tracing for lighting. Can't be too upset about that.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Exactly.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
I kinda disagree, with Hellblade 2 and GTA6 on the horizon it shows me there is an industry issue, an engine issue. The only game that looks close to the Matrix Awakens Demo is Hellblade 2 and there are also some honorable mentions...
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
hellblade 2 is barely even a game though. the game is extremely linear with no combat outside of 4-5 combat sections where you literally cannot move. you spend the entire game walking through glorified corridors but expecting other devs to make graphics like that in real games where there are more than 2 characters on screen at once and actual systems in play is kinda unfair to those developers who dont have the luxury to make a non-game like hellblade 2.
even gta6 doesnt look as good as hellblade 2. last gen was the same, the order 1886 is basically a corridor shooter where you actually dont even fire your weapon for like 70% of the game. literally 2/3rds of the game is a walking simulator. and when you do get into a firefight the game is extremely linear. RDR2 which many consider to be the best looking game of last gen doesnt compare to the fidelity of the order 1886.
These games should be praised, sure, but using them as some kind of industry standard or using them to insult other developers who have an obligation to deliver a game with actual moment to moment gameplay is simply unfair.
Devs who have implemented ray tracing (especially RTGI), utilized mesh shaders, utilized cpu to push physics effects, ssd to improve faster traversal, and didnt leave half the gpu power on the table by targeting native 4k have absolutely maxed out the console hardware. can they optimize these new technologies further and get maybe 20-25% better performance by the end of the generation? Sure. But even then its not an engine issue, its simply hardware limitations. Ubisoft Massive, Ubisoft Quebec, Bloober, Game Science, Remedy, Striking Distance Studios and Respawn should all be praised for pushing the hardware to its limits. Much more so than Ninja Theory.
dgrdsv
Member
That's a very sizeable difference, not just "an area optimization", and its not just execution ports difference (Nv doesn't have a dedicated execution port for tensor cores, the scheduler is the same for all FUs in SM).
There are no "matrix cores" which means that there can be no "array of matrix cores" unless there will actually be such "cores" capable of working together. If it will remain as is in RDNA1/2/3/4 then it's an "array of WGPs", not "array of matrix cores", and someone is being purposefully obtuse to try and paint their h/w in a better "AI light".
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
you mean this market scene?
Last-gen lighting makes my head hurt.
GymWolf
Member
Ds2 is only considered incredible looking by df and the sdf, we know it's not really an hard task to look better than that cringe piece of shit of a gameThe game I played before Mafia was death stranding 2 and I was like wow this looks so much better than DS2
I won't disagree on it bit being a bit uneven, but was far more consistent than DS2 for me. I quite liked the colour grading myself, very cinema-like imo.
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Negotiator101
Member
This is a graphics thread though, to dismiss a game because it doesn't excite you gameplay wise is surely redundant in this thread? Ninja Theory let's not forget have not long got HB2 running a locked 60fps on consoles with very little compromise on the visuals and do this while supporting UE5 full suite of graphical techniques.
Also HB2 has far more than 2 characters on screen at anytime, have you actually finished it? The giant scene for instance is an incredible set piece.
Open world?I'm gonna laugh my ass off if even a game like half sword is gonna manage to look more detailed than yotei...
GymWolf
Member
Open world is not a good excuse anymore when some of the best looking games are open world or have huge open areas that are basically small open worlds.
Yotei is also not exactly what i would pick as an example of seamless, gigantic open world, the map is quite small and full of walls and fake backgrounds.
Half sword counter not being open world by being a small indie game.
The ufc games are literally an arena with 2 fighters and a referee and ufc5 look worse than some ps4 titles, like my compatriot and pulp actor rocco siffredi said once, size doesn't matter, it's how you use it.
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mrMUR_96
Member
Thoughts on Battlefield 6 visually? Personally I think it looks very outdated, very basic and dated lighting tech, poor and very simple material work (look almost non-pbr in a lot of areas), obvious pop-in issues, weak character rendering, shadow issues and bad textures everywhere. It looks last a last gen game overall tbh, the tech behind it is clearly last gen. The effects work is nice at least. Looks like it was rushed with too many studios involved, frostbite can look good as we saw in dead space, but I think it's clear it needs some serious upgrades technically. The game itself is lot of fun though, a return to form of what makes battlefield great, just disappointed with it visually.
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There are aspects of BF6 visuals that are behind BF1, BFV, and even BF2042. The overall level of detail might be higher and we got (scripted) destruction back (still nothing on The Finals), but the previous three entries all produced much more impressive visuals a lot of the time. Art direction and weather effects go a long way with these titles. BF6 just looks flat (which also extends to UI, menus, and even gameplay itself). The result of "catering to the fans" instead of bringing a unique or creative vision to the table. Even BF3 and BF4, despite their age, look more striking.
BFV, overall, is still the high water mark for the series.
BFV, overall, is still the high water mark for the series.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, but if they had pushed visuals, you wouldnt be seeing twitter and youtube grifters boasting about running the game at 300 fps maxed out at native resolution.
I am personally ok with the graphics. its a big upgrade over BF2042. Some textures are good. Lighting feels very UE3 in those brown maps, but it does do the job in some maps that dont have that brown filter. It also enhances the wartorn look they are going for which makes it very atmospheric despite feeling a bit dated. Havent played SP yet but the mp is phenomenal in terms of atmosphere. It reminds me not just of BF1 but Killzone 2. Just sheer chaos.
Some devs are facing hardware limitations because they can always hit the 16ms or 33ms target by adding more, and especially without optimizing.
The first demos of UE5 seemed like the ceiling of what a PS5 could do, but the reality is that there was a lot of room for improvement.
We may be seeing games that maximize CPU and GPU utilization with new technologies. But we're not seeing any games that even remotely maximize what the PS5 architecture can do. Especially since the vast majority of these top-tier games are multiplatform and can't focus on taking advantage of unique features that can't be emulated on other systems.
There isn't a single game that takes full advantage of what the PS5 and even XB Series I/O systems have to offer. Nor have we seen complex audio implementations that use the console's dedicated audio processors. The vast majority of developers still rely on the CPU to process audio.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's not about what excites me, it's about the rendering load. I dont know why we are pretending that a linear and lets face it, probably the most linear game of all time, is going to have the same rendering budget as something like James Bond or Wolverine. there is a reason why hellblade 2 is literally the only game this gen that has come close to matrix awakens. Other games are trying to be actual video games with NPCs, larger environments to explore, enemies that can and do show up at any point. Not to mention the fact that you can actually move during combat sequences. Something no one talks about for some reason with HB2. Yes, you can dodge and roll, but you literally dont have full control of your character movement during those scripted combat sequence. they all essentially play out as glorified QTEs. I thought they were brilliantly choregraphed but the fact is that you are getting those visuals during gameplay because the developers have literally taken away control from the player.
Expecting the same visuals from other games that are trying to do so much more in unfair.
Audiophile
Member
Tbh, I think the best approach with BF6 is just getting a solid all round experience out of the door, focusing resources on getting back on form, back to basics and winning over players again. I think that visually it's clean and tidy; and what it needs to be right now.
Then, hopefully with a BF7 in 2028-2029 they can drastically scale up the technical/visual aspects. Perhaps getting a basic low precision RTGI + Reflections as standard on current-gen consoles, then scaling to comprehensive RTGI, AO & Reflections on next-gen consoles/mid-range PC, and full Path Tracing on higher end PC. Allowing them to completely do away with baking in dev and baking data in storage as a baseline while providing a high quality presentation of a fully dynamic world.
Then, hopefully with a BF7 in 2028-2029 they can drastically scale up the technical/visual aspects. Perhaps getting a basic low precision RTGI + Reflections as standard on current-gen consoles, then scaling to comprehensive RTGI, AO & Reflections on next-gen consoles/mid-range PC, and full Path Tracing on higher end PC. Allowing them to completely do away with baking in dev and baking data in storage as a baseline while providing a high quality presentation of a fully dynamic world.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
thats a different topic. IO and SSDs were never going to improve visuals. At best, they would allow for faster asset loading but i said this is over five years ago, and i will say it again, the GPU is what renders those assets and geometry. you will always be limited by those 10 tflops and 448 gbps of vram bandwidth.
All this IO nonsense was never going to be used by developers anyway. It was just something Cerny jerked off to at night, but most developers are trying to push ray tracing, physics, NPC counts, destruction, fancy setpieces, bigger and richer open worlds, cinematics that rival movies, etc. No one is thinking hey, lets change our entire design paradigms and make something that takes advantage of this gimmick hardware. Well, insomniac did do this with ratchet but like who cares if you can portal from one world to another. the fact that it was limited to scripted setpieces proves that the tech isnt even ready for that specific use case since devs had to load it up in the background as they pushed players through other scripted sequences.
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