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[Fess]

Halo CE isn't some untouchable masterpiece. It's got a ton of problems (pacing, repetitiveness, areas of poor level design, etc.. etc..).

It's held on a pedestal now but there's lots of room for improvement.

I played through a demo on OG Xbox in 30 minutes, didn't impress me, got nauseous, walked away, never touched it again. So no pedestal here, never been my thing.

In general I don't like Halo but I definitely liked the story and more cinematic experience and the bond between Cortana and Master Chief in Halo 4. It was great!

Could possibly see myself try this remaster on Gamepass to learn the origin story, if it reviews well.

I obviously have no nostalgia so changes is no problem at all for me. Looking at videos just makes me wonder why they went with that vehicle control? Is there a reason why it's accepted that it's awful?

Why not throw in some Forza Horizon controls? The gunner can be up there doing his own thing either way.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

so wait what.. they put an ammo counter on top of an ammo counter with the needler gun?

are they friggin morons?

Always trying to make Halo to CoD players, even now. It'll never happen.

 

[GHG]

If I were PlayStation I'd hire these Bungie devs back to help steer Destiny 2 back on track.

It's beyond repair, just let it die instead of wasting valuable resources on it.

 

[FireFly]

Exactly. It was a decent SP, but it was never great. Pretty much every big/popular FPS in the 90s did level design and general campaign far, far better than Halo. It didn't bring anything new to the table, besides a great MP.

But even MP. I preferred Unreal, Quake, and Wolfenstein.

Before Halo, standard enemies were just cannon fodder you would mow down in between health pickups. By introducing shields, and giving those same shields to your enemies, each encounter could push you to your absolute limit. Throw in grenades and melee, and you have the "30 seconds of fun" that defines the series and had no equivalent on PC at the time. (In 2001 we had RTCW, Red Faction and AVP2 that were great games in their own right but adhered to a completely different style).

I suspect skepticism about Halo comes from playing on the Normal rather than Heroic or Legendary difficulties, where Normal is pretty much the easy mode for other games.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The Silent Cartographer is one of those rare levels in video games where, frankly, there's not much worth changing. I agree with leaving the rocks in place to force the on-foot encounter with the Hunters. With that said, the overall Campaign is definitely not perfect. When it's working, it fucking works, but there's more than a few areas that could use a re-design. "Backwards at night" is a meme for a reason.

Somehow I think 343i is not going to make the low points better but the other way around…

 

[Shubh_C63]

People shouldn't be surprised. 343/HaloStudios don't know how to make a 'Fun' game.

Even remastering something takes some sort of talent.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

"oh no they changed stuff I worked on"

Who is Hailey?

some guy pretending to be female on the internet, he worked on a fan made project "Open Marble Blast Universe"
"A definitive, verified photograph of HaileyEira that is not AI-generated does not appear to be publicly available"

 

[Radical_3d]

Exactly. It was a decent SP, but it was never great. Pretty much every big/popular FPS in the 90s did level design and general campaign far, far better than Halo. It didn't bring anything new to the table, besides a great MP.

Until 2001 if I wanted to throw a grenade I had to open the weapon menu, scroll all the way to grenades, select the one I want, push enter, maybe push "9" if you're lucky and has that kind of shortcut but wasn't the norm, then once equipped you're ready to throw it by firing, so you press "continue since the last checkpoint" because by the time you've finished you're fucking dead.

Same with the melee option, that is equip fist. Halo revolutionized FPS with its holy trinity of shoot, grenade and melee all perfectly integrated in the gunplay. They also introduced regenerating health bars in the genre. So basically defined how you bloody play FPS forever. The systems that they are introduced are the standards of nowadays. They also had enemies that aren't fucking morons. Bungie kicked the fucking door down and nobody was ready for the amount of innovations they cramped all in one game.

But sure, mid campaign...

Edit: fucking hell, F FireFly already said all this.

 

[Ellis]

Until 2001 if I wanted to throw a grenade I had to open the weapon menu, scroll all the way to grenades, select the one I want, push enter, maybe push "9" if you're lucky and has that kind of shortcut but wasn't the norm, then once equipped you're ready to throw it by firing, so you press "continue since the last checkpoint" because by the time you've finished you're fucking dead.

Same with the melee option, that is equip fist. Halo revolutionized FPS with its holy trinity of shoot, grenade and melee all perfectly integrated in the gunplay. They also introduced regenerating health bars in the genre. So basically defined how you bloody play FPS forever. The systems that they are introduced are the standards of nowadays. They also had enemies that aren't fucking morons. Bungie kicked the fucking door down and nobody was ready for the amount of innovations they cramped all in one game.

But sure, mid campaign...

Edit: fucking hell, F FireFly already said all this.

See, now I get exactly what you're saying, but it made no difference to me. I have far fonder memories playing games like DOOM, Quake, Duke3D, GoldenEye, MoH, RtCW, HL, Time Splitters etc. than I ever did with Halo.

 

[Hudo]

I think the real reason why this exists is that porting the MCC to PS5 was just a clusterfuck because of the code base and using UE5 was the easiest solution. And using UE5 on a "safe project" like this also meant that the team could train itself on UE5 without having to think to hard about making a new game from scratch. I still think the MCC is the better remaster/remake of Halo 1 and 2.

 

[Radical_3d]

See, now I get exactly what you're saying, but it made no difference to me. I have far fonder memories playing games like DOOM, Quake, Duke3D, GoldenEye, MoH, RtCW, HL, Time Splitters etc. than I ever did with Halo.

I can see that, since most of those games are masterpieces. But to me, aside from Doom, most of those games were more about the vibes and atmosphere than the gun play. Yes, HL felt a little better to aim than Doom, but the action never thrilled me. I wasn't there day 1 for Halo. Like the rest of the planet I didn't bought an OG Xbox. By the time my MS whore friend bought one all this were old news and we were knees deep into the next generation rumors.

It still felt fresh. It was awesome. It is awesome, and I'm still addicted to that game loop. That's why I was baited into Destiny 1 & 2 even if they were nowhere near the same thing (Reach wasn't as well, it's clearly a Destiny alpha with bullet sponges enemies).

 

[Gonzito]

After Halo 2A, Saber Interactive should have gotten another chance to update Halo CE in MCC anniversary graphics. Until then Halo CE classic mode is the way to play. I hope 343i's next game fails so hard they are forced to sell the Halo IP.

Holy shit

 

[balls of snow]

Yeah the hunters battle was memorable because 1) it was a new type and 2) you had to fight 2 at once. Prior to that Chief was just steamrolling through grunts and elites.

 

[ShakenG]

Definitely not a fan of the added sprint.

 

[Signalis]

TL;DR - The Halo: CE remake by Halo Studios has fundamental design changes that one of the key developers of the original game isn't happy about. Namely, they both removed and added things that ruined immersion, and they don't appear to have a clear vision on what they wanted out of the remake.

His complaints just from The Silent Cartographer gameplay footage alone:

• You aren't supposed to be able to take the Warthog up to steamroll the Hunters. I intentionally placed rocks in the way so you had to fight them on foot. When you can just smash the crates out of the way it wrecks the encounters.
  • On further analysis I'm sure it's because the vehicles take damage and so you're just as likely to destroy the hog as get it over the rocks. If anything that makes it -worse- because -none- of the vehicle tricks are going to work anymore.
  • Most people forced the Warthog through BECAUSE of the Hunters. The introduction of the Hunters was supposed to be intimidating and difficult, but in the light so you can understand them. Then you meet them in an enclosed dark area and they are even harder. But then you get Rockets and Vehicles and turn the tables. It's a three act play of enemy design and you want to throw it in a blender. Fine, it'll go down easier but it's not going to taste as good.
• They put trees in the landing area of the WooHoo Jump. Lame. There's a ramp that is supposed to have a bunch of jackals at the landing spot. Your gunner would always say 'Woohoo!' When you got airborne.
• It's like the dance remix of a classic song that skips the intro and the bridge and just thumps the chorus over and over.
• If the world isn't scaled to sprint, you will be able to trivially skip encounters.
• By far the most comically unnecessary embellishment in the whole announcement. I'm not sure it isn't intentional satire. But why would you add an ammo counter to a weapon that IS an ammo counter in the first place?
  • NOTE: This is in regard to the Needler having a HUD that shows your ammo count when the Needler was designed to not need that since you can clearly see the ammo sticking out of the top of the gun.
• I think there are dozens of changes (reload speeds, no health packs, falling damage, etc) that make the game 'slicker' but ultimately less interesting.
• Halo is of its time, maybe more than any other game franchise. So they are constantly trying to either take Halo out of 2001 and modernize it (which breaks it) or take players back to 2001 with nostalgia (which is impossible).

Good old AI slop

 

[Valonquar]

For full on cringe, they could remaster Rooster Teeth's Red vs Blue series in the new engine too.

 

[ozz ex machina]

If I were PlayStation I'd hire these Bungie devs back to help steer Destiny 2 back on track.

This is just nostalgia insanity.

Halo was a great game for its time. The industry has moved on and I guarantee you most of those devs are completely out of touch and unable to innovate. These people would be no help fixing other games lol.

This remake looks fine btw. Those things the original dev is complaining about - are things a bitter mind looks for when they spent a lot of time making the original. Nothing there seemed remotely of importance to the player experience and it was criticism for criticisim sake. He's welcome to it but anyone flipping out over it like this is some damning feedback is off their trolly.

 

[Calverz]

He is right of course. It's been totally bastardised.

 

[IFireflyl]

Good old AI slop

Are you retarded? That was me using bullet points and then directly copy/pasting the quotes from the linked website. I swear, AI has made people lose all ability to think for themselves, and that goes for the people who aren't even using AI. Grow up and learn to be a person again. "Ai DiD iT!" Fucking moron.

 

[Parazels]

I would like to watch debates between the old and new Halo developers.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Exactly. It was a decent SP, but it was never great. Pretty much every big/popular FPS in the 90s did level design and general campaign far, far better than Halo. It didn't bring anything new to the table, besides a great MP.

But even MP. I preferred Unreal, Quake, and Wolfenstein.

In my appartment we played a lot of Unreal Tournament and before that the favorite was Duke Nukem 3D, with some Quake\Quake II, a few RTSes like Rise of Nations and Supreme Commander!

What a time! no need to create accounts, just plug the computers on the LAN and play!

 

[Negotiator101]

Problem I have with this guy is that it's not 2001 anymore, playing the original now is nowhere near as impressive as it was back then. It was held back in many ways by technology. Notice how alot of things added were implemented by Bungie for Halo 2, it's easy to criticise Halo Studios but then Bungie went on to add these things into future Halo's.

This isn't a remaster of an old game it's a new take on an old game for modern gamer's, don't like it? go play the original, it's simple when you look at it with a little common sense.

 

[Naked Lunch]

If you are a big fan of Halo 1 - you noticed all of these things immediately during that gameplay showcase they just displayed.
Dont even need a dev of the original game to point them out.

Pretty inexcusable that these people are in charge of the franchise.

 

[Arachnid]

Lmfao it's Halo, not Ocarina of Time bro. Chill.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sounds like they are modernizing and streamlining the game.

 

[Ceadeus]

I remember trying to get through the passage with the warthog but never could!

Fun times.. That was a clever way to introduce a new enemy.

 

[cwoody63]

I think it's a little much to pretend that the rock placements are a big deal. Could it be a sign of worse things to come? Sure, but I'm not gonna clutch my pearls at this very moment.

 

[IFireflyl]

I think it's a little much to pretend that the rock placements are a big deal. Could it be a sign of worse things to come? Sure, but I'm not gonna clutch my pearls at this very moment.

I could be wrong, but I think the sentiment is that the original developer is frustrated because changes were made by people who had no idea why the things they changed existed in the first place. It's not necessarily that the changes make the game unplayable, but more that changes were made in ignorance and that is frustrating to the person who did the original work in the first place.

Sounds like they are modernizing and streamlining the game.

Problem I have with this guy is that it's not 2001 anymore, playing the original now is nowhere near as impressive as it was back then. It was held back in many ways by technology. Notice how alot of things added were implemented by Bungie for Halo 2, it's easy to criticise Halo Studios but then Bungie went on to add these things into future Halo's.

This isn't a remaster of an old game it's a new take on an old game for modern gamer's, don't like it? go play the original, it's simple when you look at it with a little common sense.

The original developer acknowledged that it's not 2001 anymore. His take is that some changes were made without an understanding of why the original was designed that way, and other changes were made as "Quality of Life" improvements without rebuilding the game to accommodate these changes. As an example of the latter, he said that if Sprint were added then the world needed to be modified to prevent people from just spamming Sprint and blasting past enemies. Another example was that there were crates in the original that were static, and AI used those crates as cover. The crates were changed to be dynamic in the remake, but the AI wasn't updated to properly utilize the dynamic crate placement.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Lmfao it's Halo, not Ocarina of Time bro. Chill.

Honestly, no game is a sacred cow. If Nintendo wants to remake Ocarina and make major changes and additions, that would be exciting, not scary.

 

[Negotiator101]

I could be wrong, but I think the sentiment is that the original developer is frustrated because changes were made by people who had no idea why the things they changed existed in the first place. It's not necessarily that the changes make the game unplayable, but more that changes were made in ignorance and that is frustrating to the person who did the original work in the first place.

The original developer acknowledged that it's not 2001 anymore. His take is that some changes were made without an understanding of why the original was designed that way, and other changes were made as "Quality of Life" improvements without rebuilding the game to accommodate these changes. As an example of the latter, he said that if Sprint were added then the world needed to be modified to prevent people from just spamming Sprint and blasting past enemies. Another example was that there were crates in the original that were static, and AI used those crates as cover. The crates were changed to by dynamic in the remake, but the AI wasn't updated to properly utilize the dynamic crate placement.

Like I said Bungie had tech limitations back then and fundamentally changed things for Halo 2, vehicle destruction, AI improvements etc

With specific level layout in the remake and dynamic objects Vs static i think it's more about using the technology of today to their advantage and what's expected from the gamer.

As for the AI not being updated it's pretty obvious that this isn't using the originals AI routines, whats been changed I don't know but it's not the same and let's not forget it's probably still a year away from release.

Though not shown in the level they showed apparently levels are being expanded and are not just like for like so that may explain the reason for sprint but I agree that wasn't something needed in the gameplay shown.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Happens with a lot of remakes, which is why I always recommend playing the original game first.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

I will never trust or get excited for a "Classic Game Remade in Unreal Engine 5" marketing or justification for a games existence.

I'd rather just play the older version (this applies to both Oblivion and this game game) on PC with max settings at 4k.

 

[Wildebeest]

Before Halo, standard enemies were just cannon fodder you would mow down in between health pickups.

The peak of "fodder" enemies in FPS was after Halo as before then there was more variety in games, though not always working as coordinated "packs" of fodder + beef, like they did in Halo.

 

[Emedan]

After Halo 2A, Saber Interactive should have gotten another chance to update Halo CE in MCC anniversary graphics. Until then Halo CE classic mode is the way to play. I hope 343i's next game fails so hard they are forced to sell the Halo IP.

Wtf did I just read.

 

[KyoZz]

"You aren't supposed to be able to take the Warthog up to steamroll the Hunters"

Yeah I was very confused by this during the trailer. I remember trying to get to the Hunters with the Warthog but never made it.

I don't like those changes. Even graphically they lost the 'somewhat cartoonish' vibe of Halo by going for photorealism.

 

[DAHGAMING]

Dont like Campaign Evolved ? Well we have a version for you

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Halo CE isn't some untouchable masterpiece. It's got a ton of problems (pacing, repetitiveness, areas of poor level design, etc.. etc..).

It's held on a pedestal now but there's lots of room for improvement.

Yes but that doesn't invalidate anything he said because noting they have done has fixed anything at all and most of it is lazy.

Take the sprinting for example. The fact that sprinting kills a music sting and they haven't bothered to try to do anything about it at all tells you everything you need to know in that they added it as a lazy toggle to appease people without thinking about how it may or may not affect things.

Why add an ammo counter to a weapon that's entire fucking design is built around literally being an ammo counter in itself as another example

 

[proandrad]

The most unnecessary remake of a remaster since The Last of Us part 1.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Why add an ammo counter to a weapon that's entire fucking design is built around literally being an ammo counter in itself as another example

What's amusing to me is you have a ammo counter on the lower right....a screen on the back of the Needler as another ammo counter with Dots and the original Ammo counter being the amount of Needles on the Needler.

So 3 ammo counters.

 

[Signalis]

Are you retarded?

By the looks of it, you are if you have to use AI

 

[FireFly]

The peak of "fodder" enemies in FPS was after Halo as before then there was more variety in games, though not always working as coordinated "packs" of fodder + beef, like they did in Halo.

There was more variety, but the standard enemies still didn't pose a big challenge, like the Aliens in AVP2, the security guards in Red Faction, the soldiers in Medal of Honor etc. Maybe the strongest example was the Marines in Half-Life, though you're still tackling several of them at once.

 

[IFireflyl]

By the looks of it, you are if you have to use AI

It's not AI you ignorant little fuck. I'm putting you on my Ignore list because it's pointless for me to continue engaging with a moron.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

The most unnecessary remake of a remaster since The Last of Us part 1.

Microsoft only gets the benefit of a completely "new" market in PlayStation. I put it in quotations only because the amount of people that are current PS gamers and haven't played the original I would imagine are pretty small since there was quite a lot of transitions during the 8th gen.

What's amusing to me is you have a ammo counter on the lower right....a screen on the back of the Needler as another ammo counter with Dots and the original Ammo counter being the amount of Needles on the Needler.

So 3 ammo counters.

I wouldn't expect anything less from 343i (you can change your name to try to hide your past but it won't work "Halo Studios").

 

[hououinkyouma00]

The peak of "fodder" enemies in FPS was after Halo as before then there was more variety in games, though not always working as coordinated "packs" of fodder + beef, like they did in Halo.

My favorite thing about grunts in Halo was always dying to them in surprise as you tend to ignore them to focus on jackals and elites but every once in awhile they get the drop on you.

Plus their chatter is funny and I like that they scatter once the elites are down.

 

[IFireflyl]

My favorite thing about grunts in Halo was always dying to them in surprise as you tend to ignore them to focus on jackals and elites but every once in awhile they get the drop on you.

Plus their chatter is funny and I like that they scatter once the elites are down.

They're especially funny when you have the IWHBYD skull turned on!

 

[Arachnid]

Honestly, no game is a sacred cow. If Nintendo wants to remake Ocarina and make major changes and additions, that would be exciting, not scary.

You know, I actually agree with this. It's like when people had melt downs over RE2make becoming third person, and it ended up potentially the best entry in the entire series. No reason to constrain a game to design decisions made with old hardware. That's what killed MGS Delta for me. No way I'm paying 80 dollars for a PS2 game.

 

[StueyDuck]

By the looks of it, you are if you have to use AI

If you're not using AI to speed up your workflow for simple things like creating bulleted lists, then I'm afraid you are the retard.

It's literally what people need to start adapting to if they wanna keep their jobs going forward.

AI is a tool, use it.

 

[Not_A-Cop_Maybe]

This guy is complaining about vehicles now entering areas where they never intended to?

his complaint is now that sprint allows you to bypass encounters or sections of the game?

Is this man even aware of the game he's made and how people played the first one?

Is he not aware of the warthog into the Silent cartographer room with the gold elite?
Is he not aware that you could also grenade blast the warthog into the hunters encounter?
Is he not familiar with the fact that on Assault on the control room, you could bypass the entire ground level encounters by high-jacking a banshee? Or drive the tank even further than intended on Assault on the control room?

The original base game alone allowed you to do things of the exact same thing he's complaining of. He makes it sound more egregious like these choices are akin to master chief being a woman in the remake instead.

I will agree on the needer ammo counter- though seeing as the needler has an traditional counter on your hud and the needles themselves dissapear from the gun, the extra counter is unwarranted. That being said, its replicating the current Infinite needler and I barely even notice the counter on that. Its still a WIP, so it could still change.

 

[IFireflyl]

If you're not using AI to speed up your workflow for simple things like creating bulleted lists, then I'm afraid you are the retard.

It's literally what people need to start adapting to if they wanna keep their jobs going forward.

AI is a tool, use it.

The crazy thing is that AI can be useful to speed things up, but this wasn't even AI. I just clicked unordered list to create bullet points, and then copied and pasted every quote from the original article. I don't know when bullet points and lists became an AI-only tool. Bullet points have been around since less than 5 years after the first general-purpose computer was made, and it predates the internet by over three decades.

 

[StueyDuck]

The crazy thing is that AI can be useful to speed things up, but this wasn't even AI. I just clicked unordered list to create bullet points, and then copied and pasted every quote from the original article. I don't know when bullet points and lists became an AI-only tool. Bullet points have been around since less than 5 years after the first general-purpose computer was made, and it predates the internet by over three decades.

Oh i know.

I'm just saying the guy calling everyone a retard for using AI to create a bulleted list will be the same guy whose drunk at the bar with no job, blaming "the machines" at 10am on a Tuesday in a few years because he wouldn't get with the times.

AI is literally just a tool and using it to speed up the process is no different than using Word or a Text Editor to write a document instead of writing it by hand and scanning it.