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[RetroGamingUK]

So, a pc but they want me to buy all games via them?

Yup, the brand is mostly fucked, but the part that isn't fucked will indeed be leveraged.

 

[adamsapple]

It MUST have a comparable GDDR7 pool against PS6, plus 32GB of DDR5 RAM, to be competitive for years. Otherwise Microsoft's model will be beaten by OEMS.

I think the leaked specs have said a lot more than 32GB RAM.

 

[yurinka]

So you took out Consoles from the Gamepass tiers even though MS has stated explicitly several times they're doing "first party consoles".

I didn't took consoles out of gamepass, I think MS willk took Xbox consoles out of the market, so MS won't need to make a GP for them. Same goes with to pay for online MP for the next gen consoles: you won't need to pay to play online in next gen Xbox consoles because there won't be Xbox consoles.

Regarding the "first party consoles" I think there will be a few of the 3rd party made consolized PCs that in addition to match the specs MS says for their Steam Machines (I mean, consolized PCs running Windows built by 3rd party OEM manufacturers) will be marketed by MS as their own console, as they are doing with Rog Ally.

I think for the next gen there will be a new Rog Ally as their 'series S(lower specs, portable console like handheld/hybrid PC)' and another one as their 'series X (higher specs, home console like PC) marketed as their own Xboxes (remember, for MS even toasters are Xboxes now) but they'll use the GP PC because they will be PCs.

Since these 'consoles' will be PCs running Windows, they will be able to run games from Steam, Epic Store, Xbox PC store etc, so won't need to pay for online MP.

The Ads were for the free xCloud tier, not a Gamepass tier.

I think will be 'free' for those paying GamePass.

 

[RoboFu]

So, a pc but they want me to buy all games via them?

they don't want you to buy the games.

 

[viveks86]

It ll support K+M native or It ll be like consoles ?

Natively. It's Windows

 

[JerryinSoCal]

They won't have a console, that's the point

They are going to call it a console aren't they? at least one model.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

They are going to call it a console aren't they? at least one model.

100% the first party device will be labeled as a console

 

[PeteBull]

They are going to call it a console aren't they? at least one model.

They officially lie what is an xbox in their own comercials, calling prebuild non upgradeable pc with apu(cpu+gpu on same die) inside is not a bigger lie than this anyways:

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Project Amethyst provides the core technologies of RDNA 5. It's more like Sony AND AMD's technology this time around. Perhaps more similar to PS3 Cell joint venture than PS4/PS5 development collaboration. My guess is Sony will be paying significantly less licensing costs on a per chip basis for PS6 while Microsoft will be subjected to much higher fees.

Hopefully Sony don't overlook any loopholes in the contract this time. That's how MS were able to get the Xenon CPU for 360 from IBM: because of a loophole in the licensing terms of the Cell project between Sony, IBM and Toshiba.

So, they are doing what they always do but you'll also get access to PC (the BEST platform) only games? What is not to love? It's wild that people say PC like it's a bad thing. I wonder how the reception would be if it was a Sony/Steam hybrid console. So much different that it's crazy. You all know it. Same goes for a PSP 2 with access to Steam, etc. But of course, its MS so the hate is blatant. A platform with more freedom is bad. Walled garden or bust.

Yes, if it were a Sony/Steam hybrid system people would be singing a much different tune because it wouldn't be using the dogshit known as Windows OS.

Windows has been the biggest bottleneck for PC gaming and arguably the PC market for the past 20 years, aside from some temporary bright spots like Windows 7. When people talk about PC in a negative context, it's almost always in reference to Windows.

Sorry MS shills and fanboys are too ignorant to the reality of toxic sludge known as the Windows OS and kernel, but the truth's the truth. And that will be the biggest handicap for these new Xbox hybrid gaming devices.

Also it's funny to see people like you equate freedom with Microsoft, when for most of you, the idea of "PC" begins and ends with Windows, a proprietary, closed-source OS walled garden owned by one of the largest (and overvalued) companies in the world.

That shit is hilarious.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

They are going to call it a console aren't they? at least one model.

Sarah Bond is, it's just marketing.

 

[MisterXDTV]

100% the first party device will be labeled as a console

Apple should label the iPad as a "movie theater" at this point....

 

[DavidGzz]

!?!
- Customised fixed hardware vs thousands of possible combinations of off the shelf parts
- OS built specifically for the hardware vs refurbished decades old Windows NT kernel.
- APIs made specific for it vs Directx
- no need to update graphic drivers and other drivers separately everytime a new game is released
- no shader compilation

There is a lot more that makes a console a console than "limitations".

There are thousands of SKU for Magnus? The OS for PS 5 is how great compared to Steam big picture? Seem equal to me. These advantages seem to be a thing of the past especially now that Sony has to think about PC ports day one or down the road. I played AC Ghost on PC and Yotei on PS Pro. I didn't see any difference besides Yotei having better gameplay cause the dev is better. I will always buy Sony consoles, but that's just because of the exclusives. Not because the graphics or OS experience is better, so your opening exclamations are such an exaggeration.

Not having access to Mods and having to pay hundreds of dollars over the course of a Gen to play online, are definitely huge limitations to me.

 

[djjinx2]

I see demigod has been on the pipe tonight and is working overtime

 

[adamsapple]

100% the first party device will be labeled as a console

They should just call it The Xbox.

Don't give any subtitles. A singular Xbox device that plays all your Xbox library but also provides the option to load into a PC environment to load Steam etc.

With RDNA7 and those specs to back it up, it would be a viable PC alternative for a good few years as well.

 

[PropellerEar]

Xbox GPC

Spoiler

G for Gimped

 

[kevboard]

!?!
- Customised fixed hardware vs thousands of possible combinations of off the shelf parts
- OS built specifically for the hardware vs refurbished decades old Windows NT kernel.
- APIs made specific for it vs Directx
- no need to update graphic drivers and other drivers separately everytime a new game is released
- no shader compilation

There is a lot more that makes a console a console than "limitations".

most of these points were important 15 years ago, but bot anymore.
Sony's APIs follow DirectX specs essentially, since the GPU is just a slightly adjusted version of AMD's PC cards for example.
and the OS is mostly irrelevant... the Series X runs an OS based on the Windows NT kernel, doesn't really make it functionally different from a PS5, other than it being a bit better at multitasking (you can have 1 game and 3 apps running at once, vs 1 game and 1 app on PS5). both are similarly fast, both have very similar features... like... the Windows 10 based OS didn't hinder it.

as for graphics drivers. lol... driver updates barely do anything 99% of the time. you don't need to update your drivers on a PC unless you get issues, which can legit mean you can run multiple years old drivers and not really have issues.

but, drivers and shader compilation wouldn't be an issue with a PC hybrid that used a specific APU. like the Steam Deck, you can offer shader precomps and unified system updates for such a device.

 

[Ar¢tos]

There are thousands of SKU for Magnus? The OS for PS 5 is how great compared to Steam big picture? Seem equal to me. These advantages seem to be a thing of the past especially now that Sony has to think about PC ports day one or down the road. I played AC Ghost on PC and Yotei on PS Pro. I didn't see any difference besides Yotei having better gameplay cause the dev is better. I will always buy Sony consoles, but that's just because of the exclusives. Not because the graphics or OS experience is better, so your opening exclamations are such an exaggeration.

Not having access to Mods and having to pay hundreds of dollars over the course of a Gen to play online, are definitely huge limitations to me.

most of these points were important 15 years ago, but bot anymore.
Sony's APIs follow DirectX specs essentially, since the GPU is just a slightly adjusted version of AMD's PC cards for example.
and the OS is mostly irrelevant... the Series X runs an OS based on the Windows NT kernel, doesn't really make it functionally different from a PS5, other than it being a bit better at multitasking (you can have 1 game and 3 apps running at once, vs 1 game and 1 app on PS5). both are similarly fast, both have very similar features... like... the Windows 10 based OS didn't hinder it.

as for graphics drivers. lol... driver updates barely do anything 99% of the time. you don't need to update your drivers on a PC unless you get issues, which can legit mean you can run multiple years old drivers and not really have issues.

but, drivers and shader compilation wouldn't be an issue with a PC hybrid that used a specific APU. like the Steam Deck, you can offer shader precomps and unified system updates for such a device.

I was comparing console to PC in general, not next Xbox because DavidGzz comment was "What makes a console a console? Limitations?"

 

[kevboard]

I was comparing console to PC in general, not next Xbox because DavidGzz comment was "What makes a console a console? Limitations?"

but even compared to PCs the gap is closing.
microsoft is working on a shader delivery system, low level API advantages are shrinking by the hour. and Bazzite, SteamOS and hopefully eventually Microsoft's Xbox fullscreen mode will make PCs easier to use for gaming.

the time for consoles is ticking. their advantages are dwindling as time goes on. the only console with true exclusives left is the switch 2 as well, so even that is slowly fading.

 

[bitbydeath]

I don't disagree that the device will run full bore windows. That much is obvious. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be locked down like Windows S mode, with Xbox OS shell on top for that "curated" experience. MS still want to prevent piracy, cheating, hacking on/of the device.

But I'm asking for a source of your claim that MS will change their Xbox game development environment that they have been working on for 7 years, which itself is a journey of 12+ years to reach that point collectively.

Full Windows has two primary game dev environments since UWP was deprecated. The Windows SDK for unpackaged traditional PC games and GDK for MSIXVC packaged Xbox games. That part isn't changing, unless you can provide documentation which MS would need to start updating 18-24 months before the hardware release.

So you took out Consoles from the Gamepass tiers even though MS has stated explicitly several times they're doing "first party consoles".

The Ads were for the free xCloud tier, not a Gamepass tier.

Full Windows can run everything, it already runs Windows SDK and GDK games, UWP still runs. The windows NT kernel on consoles runs both XDK (Xbox One games before 2020) and GDK (Series) games.

Reason why MS won't stop using GDK is simple. MSIXVC packaging, designed for security. It prevents most hacking, piracy, cheating, translation layers like Proton. The packages are signed and notarized to run on Windows only, just like how iOS apps can run on iOS and macOS only. That is the reason why you can't get native Gamepass on SteamOS.

Windows SDK unpackaged games require Denuvo to prevent piracy, and require anti cheats to try to stop cheating. MSIXVC packaged GDK games don't require those things.





That's from the GDK GitHub page. The question at heart isn't whether MS will stop using GDK or use full windows on next hardware. Yes, they will both use full windows and still use GDK.

So both windows SDK and GDK (Xbox PC) games are designed to scale to hardware. Console versions (mainly AAA) are simply GDK games that are optimized to fixed spec hardware utilizing the GDKX.

The main question for me is whether they will still enforce mandatory optimization to Magnus hardware using the GDKX. If they don't, then it's simply the GDK Xbox PC games that can scale to all PC hardware. That would only make sense to do if MS is going full unification of ecosystem. Forcing EA, Ubisoft, Rockstar to release on Xbox PC store or not release on Xbox at all. Otherwise the Console form factor will still have GDKX optimized versions that become a separate SKU in terms of licensing and binaries. .

That is the source, you don't get both. It's a situation of one or the other, that's just how it works.

And obviously in a world where it would be possible, it'd still be a waste of time and money.

 

[//DEVIL//]

I think the leaked specs have said a lot more than 32GB RAM.

I highly doubt a PC of 1200$ range with MS profit in that number to have more than 32gb of ram.

I just pray it has at least 24 gb of vram

 

[adamsapple]

I highly doubt a PC of 1200$ range with MS profit in that number to have more than 32gb of ram.

I just pray it has at least 24 gb of vram

Just quoting what's been leaked but it says "up to" 48 GB.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Just quoting what's been leaked but it says "up to" 48 GB.

here is hoping he is correct. but for a purpose of gaming only pc/xbox ? 32gb is more than enough for the next few years no problem. its the Vram where we have issues. not system ram.

unless the vram and the system ram is shared like the PS5 / Xbox / these portable APUs like the Rog ally X etc

 

[clappedcheeks]

the time for consoles is ticking. their advantages are dwindling as time goes on. the only console with true exclusives left is the switch 2 as well, so even that is slowly fading.

Give me a break with hyperbolic ticking time bomb bullshit that you MS aligned folks like to spout. Do you honestly believe that people are going to mass migrate over to PC just because Microsoft are abandoning consoles and embracing gaming on windows at long last? Magnus will be far too costly for most folks that want to play the usual gaming fare that hits the top of the charts. It's only the Xbox loyalists desperately trying to hang on to some former glory of Microsoft's earlier 360 days that are going to support it. An expensive fixed spec pc masquerading as a console is not going to easily supplant the current console heavyweights, no matter how much you wish for it.

 

[reinking]

Do you honestly believe that people are going to mass migrate over to PC just because Microsoft are abandoning consoles and embracing gaming on windows at long last?

I think what gets missed on enthusiast sites like this is that a lot of people will not be able to afford the upfront costs of a mid-tier gaming PC. If they could, they would probably already be playing on PC. I am talking about the $1000-$1500 price range that the Xbox console is expected to launch at. Even if Sony comes in at $700 consoles, I expect it to push some of them out. I hate it because I know that gaming can be an escape for those that struggle with other things in life.

 

[rkofan87]

this should have a third option of a maybe if it is a PC at a reasonable price yes definitely.

 

[saintjules]

My man Ybarra with the truth bombs.

He makes a great point about PC's flexibility and how probably at the start of 2026 (if not now) MS will need to keep in place the hardware that Xbox Magnus is, whereas PC hardware will keep going for the next 2 years.

How does this potential $1200 machine keep up?

 

[rkofan87]

Steam on TV baby and before you say Hey you can do that on Steam deck it's a pain in the ass to do so

 

[clappedcheeks]

Even if Sony comes in at $700 consoles, I expect it to push some of them out. I hate it because I know that gaming can be an escape for those that struggle with other things in life.

I understand the sentiment and expect that both Sony and Nintendo know a $/£700 console has no chance of mainstream success. Great games are possible on devices priced to achieve mass market penetration. The tech in these devices will be even more impressive when next gen rolls around. I'm always looking forward to new tech but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy what's here and now. Gaming is still in a good place and has been for a number of years now.

 

[laynelane]

I think what gets missed on enthusiast sites like this is that a lot of people will not be able to afford the upfront costs of a mid-tier gaming PC. If they could, they would probably already be playing on PC. I am talking about the $1000-$1500 price range that the Xbox console is expected to launch at. Even if Sony comes in at $700 consoles, I expect it to push some of them out. I hate it because I know that gaming can be an escape for those that struggle with other things in life.

Another thing that can get missed on enthusiast sites is that many people prefer to play on console. There's millions and millions of them and has been for decades.

 

[mckmas8808]

You can keep dissing him for being fired or let go, but he made a good point there. Not everything he said is dumb.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Another thing that can get missed on enthusiast sites is that many people prefer to play on console. There's millions and millions of them and has been for decades.

Xbox is trying REALLY hard to convince their customers to move to PC. But PC is not for everyone.

 

[VolticArchangel]

Yup - this is exactly what its going to be.

This is sounding more and more like a closed Android (Xbox) device, but it can optionally at the user's behest, sideload other store clients like F-Droid (steam, gog, egs etc, in Xbox's context) being still in that closed custom Android OS (Xbox shell/OS), and not able to dual boot cyanogenmod (windows in context), with full BC across all Android iteration APK's (Xbox generation of consoles and their games here), all running on an off the shelf custom medusa point soc that will be available for multiple vendors to customize their own variants (but with a baseline sku to target), much like what nvidia and amd are doing with their AI line of small form factor pc's recently from multiple manufacturers.

Oh, and there's free online too, which is too good to be true after the activision acquisition and something that's been regurgitated among the insiders circle for a long time now.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Oh, and there's free online too, which is too good to be true after the activision acquisition and something that's been regurgitated among the insiders circle for a long time now.

Without free online, there is only two things that can happen; 1. no one buys from the MS store because the Steam store has free online versions of the the same games. 2. Steam doesn't have free online either, in which case no one bloody buys the thing.

The whole point of PC is that you sacrifice official support but gain freedom. What are you charging online for when you are not even offering compatibility support?

Free Online is assumed, not because MS is being nice but because without it the entire hardware would no longer have any reason to be purchased at the pricepoint offered.

 

[vdb]

Without charging for online, I struggle to see how MS make money out of this.

If you can use Steam people will start to buy games on there and stop using gamepass.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Without charging for online, I struggle to see how MS make money out of this.

If you can use Steam people will start to buy games on there and stop using gamepass.

The same way ASUS makes money selling ROG Laptops and other prebuilts like this:

 

[vdb]

The same way ASUS makes money selling ROG Laptops and other prebuilts like this:

Is MS building the system? Rumours are 3rd parties will be.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Is MS building the system? Rumours are 3rd parties will be.

There will be an official one from Microsoft.

 

[mckmas8808]

Without free online, there is only two things that can happen; 1. no one buys from the MS store because the Steam store has free online versions of the the same games. 2. Steam doesn't have free online either, in which case no one bloody buys the thing.

The whole point of PC is that you sacrifice official support but gain freedom. What are you charging online for when you are not even offering compatibility support?

Free Online is assumed, not because MS is being nice but because without it the entire hardware would no longer have any reason to be purchased at the pricepoint offered.

So what if a person buys the Xbox Magnus, and buys a cross-gen game like Madden, NBA2K, MLB The Show, etc from the Xbox Store? Will that person also be able to play those games online for free if they want to play with their friends on Xbox Series consoles?

The same way ASUS makes money selling ROG Laptops and other prebuilts like this:

But this pre-built PC is selling for $2,100 in China. That's SUPER expensive.

 

[Mister Wolf]

So what if a person buys the Xbox Magnus, and buys a cross-gen game like Madden, NBA2K, MLB The Show, etc from the Xbox Store? Will that person also be able to play those games online for free if they want to play with their friends on Xbox Series consoles?



But this pre-built PC is selling for $2,100 in China. That's SUPER expensive.

And ASUS keeps making them. If they are profitable doing this selling prebuilts, GPUS, gaming hardware, etc then why wouldn't Microsoft be able to? Microsoft are done catering to consumers that want cheap hardware. If people want cheap hardware their games will be found on Switch and Playstation as well.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

So what if a person buys the Xbox Magnus, and buys a cross-gen game like Madden, NBA2K, MLB The Show, etc from the Xbox Store? Will that person also be able to play those games online for free if they want to play with their friends on Xbox Series consoles?

But this pre-built PC is selling for $2,100 in China. That's SUPER expensive.

Of course it's free, they've paid the price of admission when they'd bought the hardware.

Microsoft simply swapped the online service charge for a hefty hardware profit charge, as per any other pre-built PC.

 

[mckmas8808]

And ASUS keeps making them. If they are profitable doing this selling prebuilts, GPUS, gaming hardware, etc then why wouldn't Microsoft be able to? Microsoft are done catering to consumers that want cheap hardware. If people want cheap hardware their games will be found on Switch and Playstation as well.

I'm sure MS will be able to sell them. But the question is how many will they sell per year? 500K? Can they sell more than 1 Million of these units per year if the cost is over $1,500?

Of course it's free, they've paid the price of admission when they'd bought the hardware.

Microsoft simply swapped the online service charge for a hefty hardware profit charge, as per any other pre-built PC.

So how would they separate that out from a person that has the NCAA College Football or NBA 2K but they're playing on Xbox Series X/S?

 

[Mister Wolf]

I'm sure MS will be able to sell them. But the question is how many will they sell per year? 500K? Can they sell more than 1 Million of these units per year if the cost is over $1,500?

It wont. I'm sure they realize this. It would be like expecting Porsches to sell like Toyotas.

 

[mckmas8808]

It wont. I'm sure they realize this. It would be like expecting Porsches to sell like Toyotas.

If you're right (and I think you will be), I'd expect their total GamePass subscription numbers to fall in a major way come 2027. With these following things, I just don't see how they ever get to 40 million total subscribers.

- Increased GP prices
- Lower Next-Gen console\PC unit sales
- Elimination of Online Paywall for Xbox Magnus users

 

[Mister Wolf]

If you're right (and I think you will be), I'd expect their total GamePass subscription numbers to fall in a major way come 2027. With these following things, I just don't see how they ever get to 40 million total subscribers.

- Increased GP prices
- Lower Next-Gen console\PC unit sales
- Elimination of Online Paywall for Xbox Magnus users

Gamepass is done. It was a bad idea from the start that far benefitted the consumer over Microsoft. Reminds me of this horrible idea:

 

[Chan]

So, they are doing what they always do but you'll also get access to PC (the BEST platform) only games? What is not to love? It's wild that people say PC like it's a bad thing. I wonder how the reception would be if it was a Sony/Steam hybrid console. So much different that it's crazy. You all know it. Same goes for a PSP 2 with access to Steam, etc. But of course, its MS so the hate is blatant. A platform with more freedom is bad. Walled garden or bust.

Yeah, I don't get the unnecessary negativity around this idea. A device that could play all my xbox library + steam games + emulation with a much more tight operating system would certainly be my jam. I just have an incredible aversion against PC fidlling. If they could solve that problem I would be interested.

5-6 years ago I tried my luck with preconfigured mini pc as a living room/console hybrid, but the actual on-hand experience was quite awful.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

So what if a person buys the Xbox Magnus, and buys a cross-gen game like Madden, NBA2K, MLB The Show, etc from the Xbox Store? Will that person also be able to play those games online for free if they want to play with their friends on Xbox Series consoles?

If a PC version of the game doesn't exist, then you are playing on the Xbox chip. Then it is just a regular Xbox. It may require multiplayer payment but it would be a very small list of games that are not on PC.

Yeah, I don't get the unnecessary negativity around this idea. A device that could play all my xbox library + steam games + emulation with a much more tight operating system would certainly be my jam. I just have an incredible aversion against PC fidlling. If they could solve that problem I would be interested.

5-6 years ago I tried my luck with preconfigured mini pc as a living room/console hybrid, but the actual on-hand experience was quite awful.

The negativity is the fact that there will not be Nextbox games. Just PC games. Xbox games stop existing entirely. The negativity isn't on the hardware but the implication that Xbox games is now officially dead. You will still have Xbox Series games for a while but that is the end of the line. You are given a ramp to get off the sinking ship, but it doesn't make the sinking of the ship any less dramatic.

 

[MisterXDTV]

If a PC version of the game doesn't exist, then you are playing on the Xbox chip. Then it is just a regular Xbox. It may require multiplayer payment but it would be a very small list of games that are not on PC.

If the hardware customization is so little like K KeplerL2 said, it would be basically be Xbox emulation, not even true backwards compatibility

But like you said, it's pointless anyway. Since 2014 or so there's no Xbox game that is NOT available on PC

And nobody would play the emulated Series version instead of the native bought via Steam

 

[DavidGzz]

Yeah, I don't get the unnecessary negativity around this idea. A device that could play all my xbox library + steam games + emulation with a much more tight operating system would certainly be my jam. I just have an incredible aversion against PC fidlling. If they could solve that problem I would be interested.

5-6 years ago I tried my luck with preconfigured mini pc as a living room/console hybrid, but the actual on-hand experience was quite awful.

Yeah, I can see this being a nice in between for console gamers interested in PC gaming with less hassle.

 

[mckmas8808]

If a PC version of the game doesn't exist, then you are playing on the Xbox chip. Then it is just a regular Xbox. It may require multiplayer payment but it would be a very small list of games that are not on PC.

If the hardware customization is so little like K KeplerL2 said, it would be basically be Xbox emulation, not even true backwards compatibility

But like you said, it's pointless anyway. Since 2014 or so there's no Xbox game that is NOT available on PC

And nobody would play the emulated Series version instead of the native bought via Steam

Guys...... I'm talking about games that are on PC today, but don't have cross platform play with Console to PC, like NCAA Football and NBA 2K.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Yeah, I don't get the unnecessary negativity around this idea. A device that could play all my xbox library + steam games + emulation with a much more tight operating system would certainly be my jam. I just have an incredible aversion against PC fidlling. If they could solve that problem I would be interested.

5-6 years ago I tried my luck with preconfigured mini pc as a living room/console hybrid, but the actual on-hand experience was quite awful.

Guys...... I'm talking about games that are on PC today, but don't have cross platform play with Console to PC, like NCAA Football and NBA 2K.

No crossplay means they are legally separate games. ThIs is by design from the devs.