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[PaintTinJr]

$1200 doesn't really inspire confidence for the spec sheet… they will still end up using some soon to be outdated CPU

x3d CPU based machine in the $1400 range sounds much better to me

Co-pilot estimates the X3D cache might added 60-80mm in die area at 9800x3D lithography, but it could be a multitude of reasons beyond it being a premium feature making the chip run much hotter IIRC..

It is also a possibility that the unified memory access that has different latencies for CPU and GPU might actual make the X3D cache benefit void in a APU, or that synchronization of access between the CPU and GPU might be made inefficient by altering the frequency and size of the data transfers for the CPU/GPU.

 

[Thanati]

Its sure not going to grow their market share but to answer your question this Xbox will mainly appeal to those who have a large Xbox library and want to stay in their ecosystem

I know quite a few people that do not care for Playstation games and have no desire to make that switch to PS

Now I know some may likely jump to PC but not to PS

So backwards compatibility?

As developers, we focus on the platform and knowing that a title will release mainly on one system (Plystation), we get reluctant to develop for others if there's no user base.

 

[Ashamam]

and we all know how demanding RT & PT is on the CPU.

The funny thing is we actually don't know how demanding the upcoming implementations will be on the CPU. Generally speaking 'less' is for sure, all the way up to 'neglibible' is possible. After all the intent with radiance cores etc is to accelerate the RT pipeline as much as possible, doesn't make sense to leave the CPU as the bottleneck when you are architecting around RT instead of trying to sort of bolt it on.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Seems they've both left the realm of the casual consumer behind, if any of this is remotely true.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Seems they've both left the realm of the casual consumer behind, if any of this is remotely true.

 

[Moridianae]

Seems they've both left the realm of the casual consumer behind, if any of this is remotely true.

Leaving the casual market behind in the console space, particularly in *this* economy, is a bold move and not really one you make if you intend to be a major force going forward outside of publishing, which if you're factoring in they want as much money as possible, is really their only option.

 

[djjinx2]

Leaving the casual market behind in the console space, particularly in *this* economy, is a bold move and not really one you make if you intend to be a major force going forward outside of publishing, which if you're factoring in they want as much money as possible, is really their only option.

ALOT of casual gamers play mobile now, some have dirt cheap PC's just as Fortnite machines or are happy on older hardware.

The casual market have already spoken, things HAVE changed though many here wouldn't want to admit it

 

[MisterXDTV]

So backwards compatibility?

And the funny thing is, I can't even remember the last game released for Xbox that isn't available on PC , maybe those for Xbox One launch in 2013?

Since Spencer became CEO, basically it never happened

 

[PaintTinJr]

ALOT of casual gamers play mobile now, some have dirt cheap PC's just as Fortnite machines or are happy on older hardware.

The casual market have already spoken, things HAVE changed though many here wouldn't want to admit it

That is such a misrepresentation of the data. Exclude all the revenue from people that have never console gamed in the last 25years, or would be too young to hold a joypad and reach all the buttons under 5years - that play on mobile - and then the data looks different.

Mobile "games" is a very loose term too, compared to console in which the vast majority of the planet have one for personal comms/computing use firstly, and without data for those moving to PC or Cloud, or giving up all gaming the data is being used to support a false narrative IMO.

 

[djjinx2]

That is such a misrepresentation of the data. Exclude all the revenue from people that have never console gamed in the last 25years, or would be too young to hold a joypad and reach all the buttons under 5years and then the data looks different.

Mobile "games" is a very loose term too compared to console in which the vast majority of planet have one for personal computing use firstly, and without data for those moving to PC or Cloud, or giving up all gaming the data is being using to support a false narrative IMO.

Hey I just googled gaming mobile market share and those numbers appear on a few sites, I haven't cherry picked. So casuals play mobile now is a false narrative? Or the console market isn't growing is bullshit too?

If I'm wrong please enlighten me as TBF I don't really look up stats too often lol

Wait your saying that under 5's are conditioned to mobile game as they can't reach all the buttons on a controller and that helps skew the data. Holy shit

 

[PaintTinJr]

Hey I just googled gaming mobile market share and those numbers appear on a few sites, I haven't cherry picked. So casuals play mobile now is a false narrative? Or the console market isn't growing is bullshit too?

If I'm wrong please enlighten me as TBF I don't really look up stats too often lol

My point is that consoles gamers are not being lost exclusively to mobile gaming in any measurable number and between consoles and PC gaming the AA/AAA gaming model is fine.

 

[djjinx2]

My point is that consoles gamers are not being lost exclusively to mobile gaming in any measurable number and between consoles and PC gaming the AA/AAA gaming model is fine.

We are talking the casual market though, that's what I replied too. Of course console market is still very healthy.

Will all those last gen owners upgrade though? That's the question. Market isn't clear for the long term future imo

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Leaving the casual market behind in the console space, particularly in *this* economy, is a bold move and not really one you make if you intend to be a major force going forward outside of publishing, which if you're factoring in they want as much money as possible, is really their only option.

I say that, expecting a $100 disc drive with the PS6 being optional, and given the time frame for release of these systems, it really could be a move towards high end adopters for both companies, which would mean bad news for your average traditional console consumers.

 

[Mortisfacio]

We are talking the casual market though, that's what I replied too. Of course console market is still very healthy.

Will all those last gen owners upgrade though? That's the question. Market isn't clear for the long term future imo

Anecdotally, most my kids friends still do not have current gen consoles. Their friends have referred to my kids as being "rich" because they have PCs in their rooms and we have a PS5 + Series X in the living room. Granted even in my friend group growing up, most did not have both, but pretty much all had either a current gen console or a PC. Now I'm personally seeing a lot of kids with neither. I don't know if I'm surrounded by a bad sample group or if this is the growing trend. If it is the trend, then that looks grim for gaming and consoles as the adult gamers age.

 

[djjinx2]

Anecdotally, most my kids friends still do not have current gen consoles. Their friends have referred to my kids as being "rich" because they have PCs in their rooms and we have a PS5 + Series X in the living room. Granted even in my friend group growing up, most did not have both, but pretty much all had either a current gen console or a PC. Now I'm personally seeing a lot of kids with neither. I don't know if I'm surrounded by a bad sample group or if this is the growing trend. If it is the trend, then that looks grim for gaming and consoles as the adult gamers age.

Same for my friends/family circle, stuck on older gens or moved to cheap PC's.

All the younger kids in family play Mobile games

 

[Radical_3d]

By then Windows will be the focus

"Microsoft Gaming" will be the brand

Why the thread bump, tho.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Why the thread bump, tho.

 

[Radical_3d]

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

It's interesting, I went into EB Games near where I lived the other day and they have downsized the gaming sections and moved them into the back corner and the whole store is geek merch.

There's only like one mass retailer in Australia which reliably stocks all consoles.

I wonder whether it will change when new gen comes or if most sales will just be online.

 

[nial]

Seems they've both left the realm of the casual consumer behind, if any of this is remotely true.

How so? $600 in 2006 is not the same as $600 in 2027. And PlayStation sold MUCH better at $600 in 2006 than you would expect it to (i.e. a full-on bomba).

I say that, expecting a $100 disc drive with the PS6 being optional, and given the time frame for release of these systems, it really could be a move towards high end adopters for both companies, which would mean bad news for your average traditional console consumers.

We already know that there is going to be a SKU that includes a disc drive, just like this generation, as per Tom Henderson.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

How so? $600 in 2006 is not the same as $600 in 2027. And PlayStation sold MUCH better at $600 in 2006 than you would expect it to (i.e. a full-on bomba).

I just don't think it'll have mass appeal at that price, especially IF it doesn't include a disc drive at that price. It'll sell to the early adopters and core fans, but the casual consumers aren't going to see a reason to go from PS5 to PS6 at that price point. It'll also likely drive more of those consumers away from discs to digital.

We already know that there is going to be a SKU that includes a disc drive, just like this generation, as per Tom Henderson.

Probably be an extra hundred bucks. If I were to get one, that would be the one I'd get, but I haven't even bought the PS5 Pro as I don't see the value in it, and if someone like me isn't interested in it, someone who always buys new traditional hardware, then it seems unlikely for the ultra-casual consumer to be ready to spend $600-$700 on a PS6 anywhere near launch.

I'm not saying they won't sell at all, just at a much slower rate than some seem to think. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, that's just what I think might happen when I look at the diminishing returns on things like graphics, and the slow development times of AAA games these days.

It'll exist for the kinds of people that want the newest systems, but what's the early appeal for people that don't play a lot of games?

 

[nial]

I just don't think it'll have mass appeal at that price, especially IF it doesn't include a disc drive at that price. It'll sell to the early adopters and core fans, but the casual consumers aren't going to see a reason to go from PS5 to PS6 at that price point. It'll also likely drive more of those consumers away from discs to digital.

Okay, but this is mostly based on the result of it not having a disc drive, which most things suggest that it's not going to happen. Considering that people are buying PS5s at $550 right now, what exactly sounds ridiculous about a $600 PS6 doing well in the market?

Probably be an extra hundred bucks. If I were to get one, that would be the one I'd get, but I haven't even bought the PS5 Pro as I don't see the value in it, and if someone like me isn't interested in it, someone who always buys new traditional hardware, then it seems unlikely for the ultra-casual consumer to be ready to spend $600-$700 on a PS6 anywhere near launch.

I'm not saying they won't sell at all, just at a much slower rate than some seem to think. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, that's just what I think might happen when I look at the diminishing returns on things like graphics, and the slow development times of AAA games these days.

An extra hundred bucks? Maybe, but from what price? PS5 Digital was $400 at launch and PS5 Standard was $100 more expensive at $500. PS6 could be $500 and $600 for Digital and Standard respectively in that case.
Now, the current model is a $50 price difference between both consoles, so $550 and $600 is probably still more likely. Consumers were pretty damn fine with a $150 difference between Switch 1 and Switch 2 at launch, so i don't get where this reluctance over a $100 more expensive PS6 would even come from. $700 is a bit steep, I agree, but it's not going to cost that.

It'll exist for the kinds of people that want the newest systems, but what's the early appeal for people that don't play a lot of games?

What was the early appeal on PS5 that is not going to be applied to PS6 as well?

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

What was the early appeal on PS5 that is not going to be applied to PS6 as well?

As I said, the diminishing returns on graphics. Developers haven't even tapped in to all of the PS5's power yet, so that obviously means casuals won't see a desire to upgrade, unless we're talking about 2030 or later, but say 2026 or 2027? I just don't see it on a large scale.

 

[Haint]

Devs are going to target the PS portable, especially the casual mainstream Sportsball and GAAS games, so Sony will probably put that APU in a little box like a Roku/Apple TV and sell it for $300 as a PS6 Lite.

 

[nial]

As I said, the diminishing returns on graphics. Developers haven't even tapped in to all of the PS5's power yet, so that obviously means casuals won't see a desire to upgrade, unless we're talking about 2030 or later, but say 2026 or 2027? I just don't see it on a large scale.

Were casual consumers experiencing a generational leap on graphical fidelity by playing the PS5 versions of Miles Morales and Black Ops Cold War in late 2020?

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Were casual consumers experiencing a generational leap on graphical fidelity by playing the PS5 versions of Miles Morales and Black Ops Cold War in late 2020?

I think it was the reputation of the Jaguar and games like Cyberpunk, the jump to 4k. We're not going to see a standardized 8k jump for next gen. Also GTA 6 being on current gen isn't going to help next gen that much.

 

[nial]

I think it was the reputation of the Jaguar and games like Cyberpunk, the jump to 4k. We're not going to see a standardized 8k jump for next gen. Also GTA 6 being on current gen isn't going to help next gen that much.

Casual consumers have no idea what Jaguar even is and Cyberpunk (which didn't even have a next-gen version back then) was a disaster at launch.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Casual consumers have no idea what Jaguar even is and Cyberpunk (which didn't even have a next-gen version back then) was a disaster at launch.

They understood that CP ran like shit on PS4, to the point refunds were handed out, and the game was yanked at the time. That isn't going to happen with hardware on PS5. Sure, forumites might complain about this game or that game, but casual gamers won't even notice such things.

 

[adamsapple]

Why the thread bump, tho.

Every time someone bumps the "why saturn died" thread, RetroGamingUK bumps up an Xbox thread to balance the universal scale.

 

[VolticArchangel]

K KeplerL2 Any update on a potential Steam Deck 2 SoC? You think if Valve couldn't get another discarded project like Van Gogh which they can repurpose again, they would completely design a brand new one with a risk of a miminum guarantee of 10 mil?

Also, has Aerith broken the 5 mil barrier yet?

 

[Fess]

Seems they've both left the realm of the casual consumer behind, if any of this is remotely true.

What's the casual market today?
As a parent with a couple kids in different ages I'd say that mobile phones and school laptops are the biggest threat to console gaming. One of my kids (teenager) can spend time going through free browser games instead of powering on a console to play real (from my perspective) games. Personally I don't understand the pull there, guessing it's ease of access, simplicity, fast food of gaming or whatever.

 

[mckmas8808]

ALOT of casual gamers play mobile now, some have dirt cheap PC's just as Fortnite machines or are happy on older hardware.

The casual market have already spoken, things HAVE changed though many here wouldn't want to admit it

Didn't Playstation and Xbox combine make $53 Billion combined in 2024? If you included Nintendo, how could the console number for 2024 be $51 Billion?

 

[Tobimacoss]

Didn't Playstation and Xbox combine make $53 Billion combined in 2024? If you included Nintendo, how could the console number for 2024 be $51 Billion?

I don't think they count console hardware revenues. It has to be software sales and MTX.

Just like they wouldn't be counting PC hardware or phone hardware revenues

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't think they count console hardware revenues. It has to be software sales and MTX.

Just like they wouldn't be counting PC hardware or phone hardware revenues

Oh well, this comparison is useless. Are they even counting GamePass and PS Plus?



Now I wonder if this is the case with other companies that have released these "Console vs. mobile" gaming comparisons.

 

[Games Bookstore]

It's interesting, I went into EB Games near where I lived the other day and they have downsized the gaming sections and moved them into the back corner and the whole store is geek merch.

There's only like one mass retailer in Australia which reliably stocks all consoles.

I wonder whether it will change when new gen comes or if most sales will just be online.

Yeah I noticed it too at an EB near me. Quite alarming to say the least.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Seems they've both left the realm of the casual consumer behind, if any of this is remotely true.

This is why Sony will release a cheaper and dockable handheld. So Sony didn't actually leave the casual consumer behind.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is why Sony will release a cheaper and dockable handheld. So Sony didn't actually leave the casual consumer behind.

That handheld will be at least $500. Not sure I'd call that a casual gamer price.

 

[Radical_3d]

Every time someone bumps the "why saturn died" thread, RetroGamingUK bumps up an Xbox thread to balance the universal scale.

They are the same picture. The sore sega fans jumped the boat to Xbox, where their beloved boring game about unloading crates ran sightly better.

 

[Physiognomonics]

That handheld will be at least $500. Not sure I'd call that a casual gamer price.

I doubt the difference of price vs PS6 will be only $100. I expect PS handheld to cost $400.

 

[Astray]

They are the same picture. The sore sega fans jumped the boat to Xbox, where their beloved boring game about unloading crates ran sightly better.

Lol you gave me flashbacks to when I used to watch my brother play Shenmue 1 on DC.

What a deathly boring game.

 

[mckmas8808]

I doubt the difference of price vs PS6 will be only $100. I expect PS handheld to cost $400.

I'm not sure I even want the PS5 handheld to be $400. Not unless Sony is taking $100 hit on each unit sold. I want the device to be able to last at least 4 solid years. $400 may be too cheap. :-(

 

[Tobimacoss]

I doubt the difference of price vs PS6 will be only $100. I expect PS handheld to cost $400.

Going the opposite way, increase the price of the PS6 Orion instead.

 

[Bernkastel]

That handheld will be at least $500. Not sure I'd call that a casual gamer price.

I doubt the difference of price vs PS6 will be only $100. I expect PS handheld to cost $400.

I'm not sure I even want the PS5 handheld to be $400. Not unless Sony is taking $100 hit on each unit sold. I want the device to be able to last at least 4 solid years. $400 may be too cheap. :-(

They are competing with Switch 2 so 450.

 

[RCX]

They'll price it high enough that they don't have to make many of them and can claim their long-suffering customers had an upgrade path.

They'll produce a low run (<3 million units) and exit the hardware space with a whimper by the end of 2027.

They don't want to be a platform holder anymore. They just want to be a 3rd party software behemoth.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

High end, curated experience is just buzz speak for, you'll have copilot on your console and you'll fucking like it you cunts.

 

[miller152]

Seems they've both left the realm of the casual consumer behind, if any of this is remotely true.

Lord GabeN will come to the rescue of the poor gamer with SteamOS console.

 

[TrebleShot]

To be fair kids dont need super expensive high end boxes to play fortnite , roblox, cod and EAFC/ 2k.

 

[TrebleShot]

High end, curated experience is just buzz speak for, you'll have copilot on your console and you'll fucking like it you cunts.

To be fair copilot voice thing on the xbox ally has come up clutch a few times for me

 

[memoryman3]

They are competing with Switch 2 so 450.

At least the Switch 2 has games with Daisy in them. Any Xbox handheld will too if you know your stuff. The PS3P will be a paperweight unless you have a large digital PS4 collection.

 

[peish]

with how TSMC keeps increasing prices, topic should be edited ps6-700 and xbox-1300

According to previous forecasts from research institutions and institutional investors, prices for advanced process technologies are expected to rise by 3% to 10% in 2026. Although the increases for individual advanced processes will vary, they will all be better than this year. This would be the fourth consecutive year that TSMC has raised its prices. While the upward trend is clear, the overall increase is still moderate, which will help maintain the stability of customer cooperation, but will boost TSMC's revenue and profits.

台積電先進製程傳明年漲價 法人估漲幅3%-10% | 產業熱點 | 產業 | 經濟日報

先進製程產能持續供不應求，台積電提前啟動年度議價。業界昨（1）日傳出，台積電9月起陸續先向客戶群溝通2026年先進製程漲...

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