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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

In the past few days, there's been a rekindling of the good old "Do we really need consoles to become any more powerful?" debate among Japanese gamers. The topic resurfaced on X following discussion around new generational hardware shifts – particularly the Nintendo Switch 2. The console has seen immense popularity in Japan as an option that's more affordable (especially the domestic version) than its high-spec competitor PS5, but still has "just enough power."

While it's just one side of the argument, some Japanese players expressed that with what current gen consoles are already capable of, there may be no need for more powerful (and by result, more expensive) consoles to keep appearing, especially as many games don't appear to "max out" the potential of today's hardware.

Additionally, some suggested that as increasingly powerful consoles emerge, this raises development costs too, as higher specs encourage higher-fidelity graphics, more details assets, bigger maps and longer development cycles, all of which raises costs and ultimately, the prices of games.

On the other hand, Amata Games' CEO Hiromichi Takahashi (who formerly worked as a producer and game director at Sony and Tecmo) pitched in with a developer's perspective on the topic.

Writing on X, Takahashi explains, "From the perspective of someone who makes games, the higher a console's performance, the better. Even for games whose graphics may appear not to fully utilize that performance. That's because higher specs reduce the cost of optimizing resources during development and let us cut down on production steps. In short, even if we build things a bit roughly, the game will still run properly."

This appears to address arguments about developers underusing what high-spec hardware is capable of, as well as the theory that more powerful consoles equal higher development costs. Takahashi stresses that having some leeway hardware-wise is what reduces costs related to optimization.

Another developer added, "This. Regardless of gameplay, the higher the specs, the cheaper the cost of optimization becomes. Game development involves far more tricks, tweaks, and layers of fine-tuned optimization to achieve stability than players can imagine."

“For us developers, the higher the console specs, the better.” Japanese creator explains why performance matters even when it seems “underused” - AUTOMATON WEST

Japanese game director pitches in on how high-performance consoles can reduce development costs, even with games that don't look high-spec.

automaton-media.com

 

[Punished Miku]

So players can foot the bill for sloppy optimization at a time of historic hardware cost increase.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

I would also love to not take the time to polish my work and just waste resources and say fuck it.

 

[vkbest]

It's going to be funny the people who want PS6 already, when they get the exact same resolutions and framerate on slightly better looking games because the additional power is used to spend less time optimizing the games. That is the reason I'm not buying 30fps games anymore like the last digimon

 

[Gaiff]

Is that why so many Japanese devs use tech from 10 years ago on top of their games running like shit?

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

I expect a slew of shit-takes, but many tech that speeds up the game development (higher poly counts for faster asset optimization, local AI, data compreassion, RT instead of baking or tweaking, transfer rates of GPU/Memory/SSD) are not even avaliable on weaker hardware. The more powerful the baseline is, the easier it is to develop the game effectively.

 

[Punished Miku]

The more powerful the baseline is, the easier it is to develop the game effectively.

Obviously. Easier (cheaper) for them, more expensive for us.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Obviously. Easier (cheaper) for them, more expensive for us.

There are no miracles here. Nihon Falcom is a thing specifically because they're good at dev processes approximations

 

[ResilientBanana]

Japanese Devs aren't great at optimization. They need higher specs because they need to brute force.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Japanese Devs aren't great at optimization. They need higher specs because they need to brute force.

Entire Trails series budget is probably lower than the budget of a recent Dragon Age alone

 

[ResilientBanana]

Entire Trails series budget is probably lower than the budget of a recent Dragon Age alone

So make a game that fits the budget and not a game that's overly ambitious.

 

[Punished Miku]

Entire Trails series budget is probably lower than the budget of a recent Dragon Age alone

Or put it on Unreal and stop using these archaic engines that are generations behind and inefficient. Indies manage to do it.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

So make a game that fits the budget and not a game that's overly ambitious.

And the you will trash the game that it use small pull of assets and outdated tech.

There's no win for some people lol.

 

[Poppinfresh]

Entire Trails series budget is probably lower than the budget of a recent Dragon Age alone

The "worst" game in the Trails series is also 100% better than he best Dragon Age game, or any Western RPG for that matter.

 

[Astray]

This is only logical, why would anyone want studios to have to take on additional months of burn without access to revenue?

Also tech improvement is one of the main pillars that drive this industry forward, anyone rooting against that is genuinely delusional. Those prices are going up whether you get better tech or not, so might as well pay them in exchange for actually better tech.

 

[Radical_3d]

So players can foot the bill for sloppy optimization at a time of historic hardware cost increase.

Aaaaaaaaand… thread!

 

[March Climber]

I can see where he's coming from. If some devs are going to continue to make games that graphically look like this in 2025:

Then sometime in the future we can at least see this with added raytracing and pathtracing as a bare minimum improvement

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Laziness

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

You know...just start optimizing your games...?

 

[Poppinfresh]

I can see where he's coming from. If some devs are going to continue to make games that graphically look like this in 2025:

Then sometime in the future we can at least see this with added raytracing and pathtracing as a bare minimum improvement

From a purely aesthetic, if not technical perspective, I prefer those screenshots to the vast majority of ultra-realistic, drab, western-produced slop

 

[March Climber]

From a purely aesthetic, if not technical perspective, I prefer those screenshots to the vast majority of ultra-realistic, drab, western-produced slop

Sure, both can be true.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Well, obviously as a developer you want the specs to be as high as possible, but many times that leads to poorly optimized code.

 

[Fbh]

"games requiere more fine-tuned optimization than people realize"

The fine tune optimization:
"Render at 720p and slap FSR on it"

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Kind of a shitter dev take. Like yeah you don't want to have to squeeze out every last possible bit of performance at all times buuut let's face it, inefficient code and bad/incorrect code tend to come from the same shitters.

 

[Signalis]

I would also love to not take the time to polish my work and just waste resources and say fuck it.

Welcome to modern game development.

 

[ResilientBanana]

And the you will trash the game that it use small pull of assets and outdated tech.

There's no win for some people lol.

That's not true. They're issue is the assets and shaders can't keep up with the hardware, they should dial it back if they can't optimize because a game with poor performance is unenjoyable.

 

[RoboFu]

I disagree.. just makes it easier to be lazy

 

[Gaiff]

The "worst" game in the Trails series is also 100% better than he best Dragon Age game, or any Western RPG for that matter.

Ain't no way you called this weeb shit better than Fallout, Baldue's Gate, ME, or KOTOR.

 

[Poppinfresh]

Ain't no way you called this weeb shit better than Fallout, Baldue's Gate, ME, or KOTOR.

I've played all of those games, and they all fucking suck compared to any game in the Trails series.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Ain't no way you called this weeb shit better than Fallout, Baldue's Gate, ME, or KOTOR.

I'd say Trails 1st really shows how much insane potential Zemuria has with modern tech and medium-sized budget. It's a detailed terrific setting with years of interwoven storytelling that can easily rival Mass Effect or any other WRPG (including writing and characters). Trails only sin is that it's made by a very-very small studio that is almost always starving for money and the presentation quality is not always on par with ambition and skill.

That being said, I'm feeling insane joy that I've discovered Kiseki this spring (with OG Sky SC, now on Cold Steel finale), it' criminally underrated gaming series that can teach a lot of bloated AAA games some useful lessons.

 

[cartman414]

I've played all of those games, and they all fucking suck compared to any game in the Trails series.

Or Planescape: Torment, Divinity: Original Sin, etc.?

 

[Poppinfresh]

Or Planescape: Torment, Divinity: Original Sin, etc.?

Yeah, same thing applies.

Trails is on another level.

Most JRPGs are. I can't think of a single Western RPG I'd choose over a JRPG.

 

[Knightime_X]

FFS stop using ray tracing and 4k on hardware that BARELY handles it.
Especially 4k! also bump up the vram to 16gb minimum.
16gb vram, 1440p, ray tracing low, Boom done!
dlss if required when supported.

 

[Vaquilla]

Every time a new technique or feature is brought in to make the process easier, devs abuse it to cut corners.

 

[GymWolf]

Arnold no shit.gif

 

[Panajev2001a]

Obviously. Easier (cheaper) for them, more expensive for us.

You also get more games from small developers with great / quirky ideas. More games by the likes of Swery65 without performance issues is something I do cherish. A and AA games resurgence as long as gamers give them a chance over the AAAA uber expensive iterative slop…

 

[Shubh_C63]

Japanese developers played this smart from the beginning. Always being a gen behind graphic wise saved them a lot on production/optimization cost AND expectations.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

lol I was gonna shit on the take in the OP but half of GAF did better than I could already

 

[SHAKEZ]

Imagine admitting that you don't want to optimize your games.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Laziness

Or lack of skill and knowledge.

 

[Wildebeest]

Great for consumers. Worse games that run worse, and all you have to do is spend way more on hardware and energy bills.

 

[Griffon]

Lazy dev meme come to life.

Can't wait for AI to wipe out those bloated teams that barely produce anything per person.