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[CowboyLou]

Game looks nice when the weather clears up, but for some reason what was rare when I played:

These are some nice shots, I swear 99% of the time I see this game it's some gross overcast weather that looks terrible. But in terms of world design I like that they weren't scared to have some big, wide-open fields and empty space. A lot of games seem afraid of doing that.

 

[Bojji]

I just don't buy that the live-service push from Sony had much effect on the fidelity of their single-player output this gen. We had numerous cross-gen titles to start with and statements like the God of War devs saying something to the effect of not wanting PS4 owners to feel like they were missing out (someone correct me if I'm misremembering). Their big single-player studios are still massive with massive headcounts, and we've seen more impressive games this gen from smaller teams and smaller timelines. As for Yotei I always felt Sucker Punch was a second-rate studio, GoT felt pretty budget even back in 2019 compared to its peers.

That have XX budget for all games and when they started experimenting with GaaS a lot of that money went into the toilet.

Not to mention the amount of time and talent wasted, they forced SP studios to make fucking GaaS games for few years... Imagine if they were making SP games that would sell few millions and generate profit instead (PS5 no games meme would be dead as well).

 

[SlimySnake]

Game looks nice when the weather clears up, but for some reason what was rare when I played:

Its their dumb gameplay system that adjusts the weather if you play stealthily. Even if u just go in for couple of stealth kills before engaging in combat, the system thinks you are playing like a ghost and darkens the skies.

In
Ghost of Tsushima, the weather dynamically changes based on your playstyle, acting as a visual morality meter: using stealth and assassinations (Ghost path) brings more storms, rain, and darkness, reflecting Jin's darker path, while honorable, head-on combat (Samurai path) leads to clearer, sunnier skies with cherry blossoms.

 

[CowboyLou]

These megapublishers have so many funny accounting tricks up their sleeve that I just can't be bothered to get too up in arms about how they might or might not be spending resources internally, if they wanted to push fidelity further I'm sure they could have one way or another. There are a couple examples that do legitimately bum me out (like Bend) but I don't think the majority of the early development cancelations matter much. Games have always gotten canceled all the time and for every one we know about there are probably several we don't.

Regardless Sucker Punch wasn't one of the studios that was distracted by live service iirc, and they still gave us this turd ("only" five years later). Plenty of studios have done more with less.

 

[CowboyLou]

Its their dumb gameplay system that adjusts the weather if you play stealthily. Even if u just go in for couple of stealth kills before engaging in combat, the system thinks you are playing like a ghost and darkens the skies.

In
Ghost of Tsushima, the weather dynamically changes based on your playstyle, acting as a visual morality meter: using stealth and assassinations (Ghost path) brings more storms, rain, and darkness, reflecting Jin's darker path, while honorable, head-on combat (Samurai path) leads to clearer, sunnier skies with cherry blossoms.

Never actually played it myself, did not know about this this. Sounds like one of those "fun in concept, awful in reality" ideas. This is why we all need people in our lives who aren't afraid to call us a retard. Otherwise you end up doing dumb shit like this and thinking you're a genius for it.

 

[Jam Dingo]

I just don't buy that the live-service push from Sony had much effect on the fidelity of their single-player output this gen. We had numerous cross-gen titles to start with and statements like the God of War devs saying something to the effect of not wanting PS4 owners to feel like they were missing out (someone correct me if I'm misremembering). Their big single-player studios are still massive with massive headcounts, and we've seen more impressive games this gen from smaller teams and smaller timelines. As for Yotei I always felt Sucker Punch was a second-rate studio, GoT felt pretty budget even back in 2019 compared to its peers.

It's had an effect in that it's significantly reduced their output. What have they actually released that's clearly next gen focused?

Demon's Souls
Ratchet
Horizon FW (yeah, cross gen, but so much effort put into the PS5 version that I think it qualifies)
Returnal
TLOU Part 1
Spider-Man 2
Astro Bot
Death Stranding 2
Ghost of Yotei

9 games in 5 years. Maybe 3 AAA fully next gen ones (SM2, DS2, Yotei), plus Ratchet which is small in scope but AAA in production values. Those are the ones using actual next gen tech built at least partly for the PS5. We've just barely seen anything that really qualifies.

I think you could make a good argument that, really, Wolverine will be the first game released on PS5 by a first party studio that

1. is from one of the studios renowned for their tech and graphics output (ie NOT Saros or Astro Bot)
2. is an original game (ie NOT Demon's Souls, NOT TLOU P1)
3. is made from the ground up for PS5 with a full next gen engine iteration (ie NOT Spider-Man 2 being hamstrung by having to reuse a PS4 map and sticking to that broad level of fidelity, NOT Horizon FW, and probably not DS2 either, given they use an engine that's probably still in development for whatever next gen game Guerrilla eventually pursues)
4. is AAA in scope (ie NOT Ratchet)

That leaves Yotei, and even that's arguable given the size of SP.

The live service push has simply devastated their single player output. I'd bet a lot of money that there's nothing inherently wrong with any of these studios. Wolverine will look incredible, just as Ratchet and Yotei do. Intergalactic will be amazing. So will everything else they release. It's just been an unacceptably long time coming.

 

[CowboyLou]

Nah, they're just coasting since last gen. They think they have a captive audience who'll eat up whatever sub-Ubisoft tier crap they put out at this point, and for the time being they're right. Why put effort into cutting-edge graphics when the audience consensus is gonna be that Yotei is gonna be the best-looking game of the year anyway? And again, we've seen other studios do more with the same or less, although they tend not to consist of overpaid DEI Californians.

I'll admit I don't care for Sony's singleplayer first-party output regardless of visuals, though (except Housemarque). Even if the service push was the reason Ragnarok and Yotei came out so ugly, I'd rather have Helldivers 2 and Marathon anyway.

 

[SlimySnake]

Hmmm...

its not $400 million for sure. It was a 100 or so developers so same size as Sucker Punch who took 5 years to make a new IP. basically should be a $60 million game max.

The $400 million figure is bs to get some tax breaks and write offs. At best, the owners made some bank when they sold the studio to Sony but i doubt sony paid anything close to $400 million. Especially when Respawn sold for $300 million AFTER launching titanfall, jedi and apex. This was a new studio that was probably acquired because it was cheap, maybe $20-40 million max.

 

[Jam Dingo]

Nah, they're just coasting since last gen. They think they have a captive audience who'll eat up whatever sub-Ubisoft tier crap they put out at this point, and for the time being they're right. Why put effort into cutting-edge graphics when the audience consensus is gonna be that Yotei is gonna be the best-looking game of the year anyway? And again, we've seen other studios do more with the same or less, although they tend not to consist of overpaid DEI Californians.

I'll admit I don't care for Sony's singleplayer first-party output regardless of visuals, though (except Housemarque). Even if the service push was the reason Ragnarok and Yotei came out so ugly, I'd rather have Helldivers 2 and Marathon anyway.

Are you blind? Yotei isn't ugly. It's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen (although not played it, but going off Youtube on my tv, so can't see how it can possibly look WORSE than that in reality). And it's almost certainly more beautiful compared to the 2025 average than Tsushima was to the 2020 average, so there's zero evidence of "coasting" there.

I've clearly explained how few games they've released which are really true AAA next gen only projects. That's why they've made so little impact on next gen graphics - barely any games. Not some totally evidence-free nonsense about them getting lazy or complacent etc.

 

[CowboyLou]

I don't need "evidence". I have vibes.

 

[SlimySnake]

I just don't buy that the live-service push from Sony had much effect on the fidelity of their single-player output this gen. We had numerous cross-gen titles to start with and statements like the God of War devs saying something to the effect of not wanting PS4 owners to feel like they were missing out (someone correct me if I'm misremembering). Their big single-player studios are still massive with massive headcounts, and we've seen more impressive games this gen from smaller teams and smaller timelines. As for Yotei I always felt Sucker Punch was a second-rate studio, GoT felt pretty budget even back in 2019 compared to its peers.

It's a bit of both. Complacency from first party studios compounded by a lack of resources awarded to them. We have slides from Sony that show this.

As you can see, the investment in SP games went down in a time when next gen development required MORE investment in order to get their games ready for new tech and higher quality assets.

I remember ND went from 75 devs to 150 devs after shipping Uncharted 1. They were like we need more devs to achieve our vision for a grander game and sony was like fine. Sucker Punch released a 10 million seller and Sony didnt increase their team size. Let alone doubling it. They only got ray tracing in late. Who is to say that if their graphics team had more hands, they wouldve gotten ray tracing in early allowing their artists more freedom. Same goes for virtualized geometry. It's just not there. It's there in AC shadows and makes a massive difference in temples, castles and other urban areas.

Conversely, a higher budget wouldve allowed them to license UE5 but Sony probably didnt want to pay $10-20 million up front or whatever the revenue percentage Epic wouldve asked for in negotiations. Sony switched Bend to Decima after they shipped a great looking game on UE4, so savings on development costs is definitely a possibility.

 

[Jam Dingo]

Yeah but UE5 is a fucking mess of an engine and Sony already has at least 3 good in-house ones, so paying to licence a worse one would be idiotic.

 

[Bojji]

its not $400 million for sure. It was a 100 or so developers so same size as Sucker Punch who took 5 years to make a new IP. basically should be a $60 million game max.

The $400 million figure is bs to get some tax breaks and write offs. At best, the owners made some bank when they sold the studio to Sony but i doubt sony paid anything close to $400 million. Especially when Respawn sold for $300 million AFTER launching titanfall, jedi and apex. This was a new studio that was probably acquired because it was cheap, maybe $20-40 million max.

I also don't think it was exactly 400 million but above 200 milion 100%. Ai take on this:

Yeah but UE5 is a fucking mess of an engine and Sony already has at least 3 good in-house ones, so paying to licence a worse one would be idiotic.

UE5 has performance issues but produces top graphics, same can't be said about Sony output this gen (outside of Ratchet, Demon's Souls and maybe HFW at launch).

 

[CowboyLou]

None of Sony's engines are even close to UE5, they're all a generation behind. Ubisoft meanwhile has demonstrated the initiative and desire to keep up with the times.

Housemarque is currently using UE5 so it's clearly something Sony is ok with, but I don't know anything about UE licensing fees to speculate further.

 

[CowboyLou]

Conversely, a higher budget wouldve allowed them to license UE5 but Sony probably didnt want to pay $10-20 million up front or whatever the revenue percentage Epic wouldve asked for in negotiations. Sony switched Bend to Decima after they shipped a great looking game on UE4, so savings on development costs is definitely a possibility.

Bend is the only one I'm actually pissed about. Despite launch issues, they shipped one of, if not the most impressive UE4 game last generation with zero previous experience with the engine or the console. And then they even delivered a near-perfect PC port on top of that. Fucking wizards.

I've been going back to the big Sony releases on PS4 and I honestly don't think most of them are as technically impressive as they're given credit for now. Days Gone is, though.

 

[Jam Dingo]

UE5 has performance issues but produces top graphics, same can't be said about Sony output this gen (outside of Ratchet, Demon's Souls and maybe HFW at launch).

But those games ARE Sony's output this gen!! What else is there? Yotei, which you forgot or omitted, which DOES have top graphics. SM2 which looks great but is hamstrung by its last gen world, so that's not really a legitimate datapoint, and DS2, which I personally agree is slightly disappointing but which still looks very good in a lot of respects and even industry-leading in some.

None of Sony's engines are even close to UE5, they're all a generation behind. Ubisoft meanwhile has demonstrated the initiative and desire to keep up with the times.

Housemarque is currently using UE5 so it's clearly something Sony is ok with, but I don't know anything about UE licensing fees to speculate further.

More bullshit.

 

[CowboyLou]

I've been mostly lurking this thread for a while now and I just want to say I'm glad there are a few of us with actual standards left.

When it comes to graphical fidelity, claiming games like Yotei are even remotely comparable to what we've seen on UE5, Snowdrop, and Decima is just laughable.

I was even praising certain aspects of Yotei earlier but as Chad Warden would say, come on now.

 

[Jam Dingo]

I've been mostly lurking this thread for a while now and I just want to say I'm glad there are a few of us with actual standards left.

When it comes to graphical fidelity, claiming games like Yotei are even remotely comparable to what we've seen on UE5, Snowdrop, and Decima is just laughable.

I was even praising certain aspects of Yotei earlier but as Chad Warden would say, come on now.

Which games are Snowdrop? Avatar and Outlaws is it? I never make pronouncements without actually playing the game because YouTube can be deceptive, but from everything I've seen Yotei is, on base PS5, significantly better looking than both.

I'm not sure what UE5 games I've actually played this gen. Played the Matrix demo which I found very disappointing - severe image quality issues, but still impressive tech. Robocop looked pretty crap to me - like Matrix actually, it was a real "gif" game that looked great in YouTube videos on phones or GIFs etc, but blow up to a huge 4k TV just doesn't hold up. Most of the others I might be interested in have such crap performance and IQ that I just skipped them entirely. Silent Hill 2 was good looking but nothing extraordinary.

 

[Gonzito]

At times, Yotei looks downright ugly. Nighttime in particular is terrible, and the NPCs are genuinely hideous borderline PS3 era quality. The geometry is a joke as well, especially when you compare it to something like Shadows.

Art direction is a separate discussion you might prefer Yotei's style aesthetically, and that's subjective. But on a technical level, objectively speaking, Shadows is so far ahead of Yotei that the comparison isn't even close.

 

[Critical Hit]

At times, Yotei looks downright ugly. Nighttime in particular is terrible, and the NPCs are genuinely hideous borderline PS3 era quality. The geometry is a joke as well, especially when you compare it to something like Shadows.

But.. but it's an improvement over the first game and has ray-tracing! Don't confuse, that's ok for GoY, but it's not quite enough for KCD2.

 

[Jam Dingo]

At times, Yotei looks downright ugly. Nighttime in particular is terrible, and the NPCs are genuinely hideous borderline PS3 era quality. The geometry is a joke as well, especially when you compare it to something like Shadows.

Art direction is a separate discussion you might prefer Yotei's style aesthetically, and that's subjective. But on a technical level, objectively speaking, Shadows is so far ahead of Yotei that the comparison isn't even close.

Virtually all games are downright ugly at times. Not sure about Shadows because imo that looks like it's probably the best looking game ever made, but other big hitters like Avatar and Outlaws frequently look downright ugly. It seems like in this thread there's one standard for Sony games and one for everything else.

 

[Gonzito]

Virtually all games are downright ugly at times. Not sure about Shadows because imo that looks like it's probably the best looking game ever made, but other big hitters like Avatar and Outlaws frequently look downright ugly. It seems like in this thread there's one standard for Sony games and one for everything else.

I hold the same standards for every company. I dont treat Sony differenly like you are implying

Yotei has a good art style and it can look great in certain situations but technically speaking is dated, period

 

[Bojji]

Virtually all games are downright ugly at times. Not sure about Shadows because imo that looks like it's probably the best looking game ever made, but other big hitters like Avatar and Outlaws frequently look downright ugly. It seems like in this thread there's one standard for Sony games and one for everything else.

Sony games were having top graphics in PS3 and PS4 gen. Sony dropped the ball this gen, third parties now make the best looking games.

 

[Jam Dingo]

I hold the same standards for every company. I dont treat Sony differenly like you are implying

Yotei has a good art style and it can look great in certain situations but technically speaking is dated, period

So you agree that pretty much all games are "downright ugly" at times?

Sony games were having top graphics in PS3 and PS4 gen. Sony dropped the ball this gen, third parties now make the best looking games.

Well as I've said, they've barely released any next gen games so it's not an easy assertion to prove. Ratchet is is still one of the best looking games on consoles 4.5 years later. So is HFW, actually, even if it's a bit more dated in areas, which is even more remarkable considering it's a PS4 game. And Spider-Man 2 is also still one of the best looking games on console, even if it's not as obviously next gen as it would be if the entire game had been made ground up for the PS5 - I think Wolverine will blow it away, for example. Yotei imo is superb looking and one of the very best of the generation.

So what I think has happened is that Sony have fucked up big time with their live service push but it's almost certainly nonsense that there's been some studio wide decline in technical quality or commitment to visuals. That just seems like a stupid conspiracy theory.

My one other comment on Sony is that there does seem to have been an unusual commitment to keeping performance modes looking good with relatively high resolutions etc. I'm not sure why, because virtually every other studio has basically treated those modes as afterthoughts. But to me that's a good thing, not a negative.