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Air Strikes in Caracas

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So very early on in this, Sky News reported that is was a negotiated exit from Maduro's side.

Is that now considered total bullshit?

Or could that still be in play?
 
StueyDuck said:
n0gJjQ804P3fcu1j.jpg

I love the stupidity of the SA government 🤣

They are so fucking retarded that they'll just walk into shit head first without even remotely taking a second to think it through.

Like all shitty governments around the world, I like seeing them constantly fuck up, it helps people wake up and realize how moronic these world leaders are, gets them voted out.
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The stupidity of the SA government expecting the US not to kidnap world leaders 🤣

How dare they?
 
coinhook said:
Ukraine is a divided nation as the Russian speaking population fights for Russia

We'll see whether Venezuela will remain united
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Suddenly Venezuela has the luxury of being divided on all sorts of things that they simply were not allowed to be divided on because they were ruled by a Marxist dictator. That's a good problem to have.
 
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To my point yesterday about the idea of this whole thing being based on getting more oil:

Trump's plan to seize and revitalize Venezuela's oil industry faces major hurdles

But even with those massive reserves, Venezuela has been producing less than 1% of the world's crude oil supply. Corruption, mismanagement and U.S. economic sanctions saw production steadily decline from the 3.5 million barrels per day pumped in 1999 to today's levels.

The problem isn't finding the oil. It's a question of the political environment and whether companies can count on the government to live up to their contracts. Back in 2007, then President Hugo Chávez nationalized much of the oil production and forced major players like ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips out.

"The issue is not just that the infrastructure is in bad shape, but it's mostly about how do you get foreign companies to start pouring money in before they have a clear perspective on the political stability, the contract situation and the like," said Francisco Monaldi, who is the director of the Latin American energy program at Rice University.

But the infrastructure does need significant investment.

"The estimate is that in order for Venezuela to increase from one million barrels per day — that is what it produces today — to four million barrels, it will take about a decade and about a hundred billion dollars of investment," Monaldi said.
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If this is actually Trump's motivation, it's really dumb. We've shown repeatedly we don't have the stomach to commit to these decades long nation building projects. Our citizens get frustrated when they read about billions of their tax dollars being sent to some distant nation they've never been to instead of being spent here at home to make the US better. This is where the "America First!" and "pointless foreign wars" messaging of MAGA originally came from.

Sure, our military is the best ever and can knock over most countries in a few hours. That's the easy part. The hard part is staying there and building a new stable government that isn't riddled with corruption. One that can actually make use of the resources and keep the infrastructure, utilities, economy, law enforcement, courts, penal system, medical care system, etc. running smoothly.

Does anyone really believe Trump has a good plan for this? Does anyone really believe the White House will have multiple successive POTUS + Congress who will put up the resources necessary to make this happen?
 
rm082e said:
To my point yesterday about the idea of this whole thing being based on getting more oil:

Trump's plan to seize and revitalize Venezuela's oil industry faces major hurdles



If this is actually Trump's motivation, it's really dumb. We've shown repeatedly we don't have the stomach to commit to these decades long nation building projects. Our citizens get frustrated when they read about billions of their tax dollars being sent to some distant nation they've never been to instead of being spent here at home to make the US better. This is where the "America First!" and "pointless foreign wars" messaging of MAGA originally came from.

Sure, our military is the best ever and can knock over most countries in a few hours. That's the easy part. The hard part is staying there and building a new stable government that isn't riddled with corruption. One that can actually make use of the resources and keep the infrastructure, utilities, economy, law enforcement, courts, penal system, medical care system, etc. running smoothly.

Does anyone really believe Trump has a good plan for this? Does anyone really believe the White House will have multiple successive POTUS + Congress who will put up the resources necessary to make this happen?
Click to expand...

More than likely it will be a combination of private investment along with support of the US to bring Venezuela back to modernized oil producing state. This has been the goal across multiple administrations of both parties in the US.
 
People on X saying that Cuban government officials and oligarchs are fleeing on private boats already..

what is amusing to me is all the people saying 'why Trump cant do this to Putin' blabla... as if Venuzuela is somehow comparable in power to the Kremlin lmfao.. honestly terrifying how dumb the average leftist is
 
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MayauMiao said:
Oh reddit.

Click to expand...

The denial of what his eyes are showing him, and the repeated talking point in response to any challenge to his stupid little narrative, reminds me so much of the video game industry (plus anything involving men in women's sports).
 
I am wondering if the behind closed doors agreement here is;

US made the deal so that they gets Venezuela, China gets Taiwan and Russia gets Ukraine land..

I hope I am wrong. It seems very strange how little Russia and China have said on this
 
ElFenomeno said:
1. Who gets to decide what's the right thing? The strongest player? You know everyone thinks they are in the right. Even Putin.
2. So as long as the country does better economically then before, invasion is legitimized?
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The people of Venezuela were supposed to decide what the right thing is for Venezuela, but that has not been possible for 25+ years.

Go_Ly_Dow said:
So very early on in this, Sky News reported that is was a negotiated exit from Maduro's side.

Is that now considered total bullshit?

Or could that still be in play?
Click to expand...

Don't really understand how it was "negotiated". Is it a matter of Maduro couldn't just leave the country and so the US had to come in and get him? Flies in the face of what Rubio said that Maduro had many chances. Not sure.
 
Remember when in Trump's first term he droned Iran's #1 military strategist?
"WE ARE GOING TO START A WAR!"
"WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO ATTACK A FOREIGN STATE!"
"WE JUST STIRRED A HORNET'S NEST AND WONT LIKE THE REPROCUSSSIONS!"
"PINK UNICORNS INC..." (I had to hyperbole a point so it might stick in)
But we should have left Major General Qassem Soleimani alone and well because "insert speculation blah blah bullshit blah here".

Iran's terrorist regime not but five years later is now on its fucking knees and the very prospect of it returning to some form of democracy is a very real possibility. The Iranian people do prefer western values. Hopefully the Venezuelans feel the same.
 
Rubio mentioned that Trump offered lots of "really nice deals" to Maduro before kidnapping him, wonder if we will ever find out what those deals were
 
popeutlal said:
It's concerning that people here aren't concerned tha this action was taken without the congress approval.
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International law is toilet paper if we are dealing with a dictator, according to majority here. But only if that dictator doesnt play ball with US, otherwise he gets red carpet at the White House or exchanging planes as gifts like with Qatar.
 
rm082e said:
To my point yesterday about the idea of this whole thing being based on getting more oil:

Trump's plan to seize and revitalize Venezuela's oil industry faces major hurdles



If this is actually Trump's motivation, it's really dumb. We've shown repeatedly we don't have the stomach to commit to these decades long nation building projects. Our citizens get frustrated when they read about billions of their tax dollars being sent to some distant nation they've never been to instead of being spent here at home to make the US better. This is where the "America First!" and "pointless foreign wars" messaging of MAGA originally came from.

Sure, our military is the best ever and can knock over most countries in a few hours. That's the easy part. The hard part is staying there and building a new stable government that isn't riddled with corruption. One that can actually make use of the resources and keep the infrastructure, utilities, economy, law enforcement, courts, penal system, medical care system, etc. running smoothly.

Does anyone really believe Trump has a good plan for this? Does anyone really believe the White House will have multiple successive POTUS + Congress who will put up the resources necessary to make this happen?
Click to expand...
It will depend whether the issue of governance is violently contested or not.

The cost in blood is the part of the process the American public doesn't have the stomach for. If there is no war to fight, then it's pretty hard to make imperialism unprofitable in an incredibly resource rich country.
 
ElFenomeno said:
International law is toilet paper if we are dealing with a dictator, according to majority here. But only if that dictator doesnt play ball with US, otherwise he gets red carpet at the White House or exchanging planes as gifts like with Qatar.
Click to expand...
iNtErNaTiOnAl lAw

All the same legacy media BS talking points will be repeated ad nauseum. The same points the same media and select politicians were SILENT on when their preferred dear leader was in charge and doing the same things. A little more sloppy and with much more bloodshed, however.
 
ElFenomeno said:
International law is toilet paper if we are dealing with a dictator, according to majority here. But only if that dictator doesnt play ball with US, otherwise he gets red carpet at the White House or exchanging planes as gifts like with Qatar.
Click to expand...

International law is toilet paper regardless. Law without enforcement is useless.
 
EviLore said:
The Good Guys sure know how to pick who they support.

1wSzuvYhAliHDmZO.jpeg
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Ever since I saw white suburban liberals supporting "defund the police" and excusing rioting/looting in 2020, I am convinced these people can get baited into defending nearly any stance no matter how preposterous. It's hilarious and sad. We need sane, rational people making the best possible argument for both sides. This just makes it easy to label all liberals as a bunch of clueless lunatics. They fall for this same trick over and over.
 
ElFenomeno said:
International law is toilet paper if we are dealing with a dictator, according to majority here. But only if that dictator doesnt play ball with US, otherwise he gets red carpet at the White House or exchanging planes as gifts like with Qatar.
Click to expand...
The extent to which 'international law' applies to the US has always been at the discretion of the US. This is just the reality of the situation. Will there be consequences for the US opting out of its voluntary following of this law? Perhaps, but the US isn't going to enforce consequences upon itself.
 
DeepEnigma said:
iNtErNaTiOnAl lAw

All the same legacy media BS talking points will be repeated ad nauseum. The same points the same media and select politicians were SILENT on when their preferred dear leader was in charge and doing the same things. A little more sloppy and with much more bloodshed, however.
Click to expand...
Come on man! When their preferred executive did it, it was different!
Friday Movie GIF
 
The liberals I know are saying that Chavez and Maduro were disliked by the US because they helped the people and were using the oil to benefit their people. It was the US sanctions that were destroying the country. I was told that Chavez reduced poverty from 80% to 30%. I looked it up and I found an article claiming 49% down to 30% but is any of this true? I find it hard to believe that poverty went down under Chavez or that they were actually there for the people. I feel like it's just a cop out to not acknowledge that socialism doesn't work.
 
ElFenomeno said:
Trump's move legitimized Putin in Ukraine and Xi in Taiwan.
The world is being carved up by the 3 big players.
Sad state of affairs, being from Europe, it seems we are the last against this current. Unfortunately, we are too divided.
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2, Russia is a paper tiger and it will eventually be dealt with. (And it will not be by the hand of the west.)

What legitimized this was the entire world accepting what Russia did to Ukraine and how Putin is getting away with it.

And I say more, it will legitimize every single country in the world to arm herself to the teeth for when the next "Russia / Ukraine" appears. No wonder why we're seeing some sort of arms race in every continent right now.

The whole world should have sent military aid without 2 years of hesitation for Ukraine to counter attack as soon as Russia's supply lines were clogged into the Ukraine's rasputzia. It should have provided the means for Ukraine to strike Russian war and oil factories inside Russia from the first month of war, etc.

What legitimized something was the limp dick response to Russia's aggression of the entire world.

Now we're way past this point now.

MisterFalcon said:
The invasion of Taiwan will happen the moment China has the military capacity to do so.
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Xi has been saying this since he was "elected" in 2013. He's been calling the military to be ready for 2027 for more than a decade.

Did you guys saw he new year speech this year this year's? It's was the same for the last decade and it "surprised" every newsroom in the world.

Yet, here we are discussing that something from this weekend "legitimize" it.
 
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