DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The end game is always about seizing the means of production. In which Chavez and Maduro did.
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Air Strikes in Caracas
- Thread starter Meicyn
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The Maduro memes are pretty entertaining. Some 10/10 work there.
Sadly, it looks like the current "plan" is to negotiate with the same Venezuelan regime and otherwise leave it intact. Maduro's just...taking a forced vacation.
The pro-Maduro activists are both fringe and cringe. Still, you can tell these are tiny protests and not massive events.
Which is not reasonable, since most liberals aren't defending Maduro at all. The vast majority of mainstream Democrats are glad to see Maduro go. Sure, they will still criticize aspects of how it happened (and the rather murky status of any real follow-up plan), but that's natural. Partisanship cuts both ways. The administration hasn't exactly tried to bring people together either.
Sadly, it looks like the current "plan" is to negotiate with the same Venezuelan regime and otherwise leave it intact. Maduro's just...taking a forced vacation.
The pro-Maduro activists are both fringe and cringe. Still, you can tell these are tiny protests and not massive events.
Which is not reasonable, since most liberals aren't defending Maduro at all. The vast majority of mainstream Democrats are glad to see Maduro go. Sure, they will still criticize aspects of how it happened (and the rather murky status of any real follow-up plan), but that's natural. Partisanship cuts both ways. The administration hasn't exactly tried to bring people together either.
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Sonik
Member
Won't the police stop kidnapping all those poor criminals
Won't someone think of the dictator
Ah yes, USA, the world police. The country that has illegally invaded countries repeatedly, installed corrupt dictators, tortured, aided in genocides and so on, is now "policing" the world so this is definitely not a kidnapping
Clown shit indeed
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is retarded. You can't seriously believe the beep boop talking points, and if so, refer back to the first sentence.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
International law is a construct that has been created after the WW2. I keep saying this but it was basically a set of rules defined by the USSR block and the western block how to conduct their "cold war". Same as the european balance of power post napoleonic wars - just an agreement beween countries.
Nobody wants to change the regime because there is no alternative that has military support there. No bureaucracy apparatus. Nothin. Goal is to ultimately detach Venezuela from China. Whether they can handle cartels...Well that's a separate matter.
Nah, the liberals like to "talk" but they have no abilities to do anything - and both neocons and liberals demonstrated that in the last 20 years. Not a single problem was resolved and more were created. Liberals in general like to talk and pat each other backs. "I stand with those people", put their flag and then do nothing.
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Zathalus
Member
The EU is basically the only reason why Europe is even slightly relevant. Europe without the EU is just a bunch of states with minimal power compared to China and America. Those wanting the EU to be abolished and yet in the same breath claim Europe should be strong are delusional. Belgium, Denmark, Poland, and plenty of others would simply be irrelevant. The EU allows for tangible soft power. But not hard power, not yet at least.
Th EU needs to be streamlined and overhauled. Maybe even federalize. All of Europes GDP funneled into a real European army. Not have the promised overhaul to immigration and asylum be paralyzed due to how slow it moves. If the EU can act like an actual nation state it would solve a lot of problems.
Doubtful that would ever happen anytime soon. Although the recent actions by Russia and America are actually helping the EU strengthen, albeit slowly.
StueyDuck
Member
I think we need some more tinfoil for your hat my man.
Reeeeee somewhere else, it literally was a negotiated hand over
"KiDNapPiNg"
ElFenomeno
Gold Member
All true. At the same time, imagine a world without them, under China's and Russia's boot. In their short existence, they caused massive damage all over the world, but at least they're a democracy with a somewhat rule of law. For now at least.
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Yeah, I do think it's ultimately a good thing for the EU to take more of a responsibility in its own defense in the long run.
Contrary to what Trump likes to claim, the previous status quo was crafted to overly favor U.S. interests rather than European interests. You could argue that perceptions have changed about those interests, through the lens of internal politics, but there was a very U.S.-centric rationale behind it all.
Sonik
Member
Zero legitimate arguments in your post, just like the other guy. The sad thing is that I remember you being against war and interventionism and now suddenly you're cheerleading for this shit, it's sad that some old Trump supporters are just like liberals, ignoring their principles and blindly shilling for their team.
I remember the exact same bullshit excuses from liberals when that piece of shit Obama was bombing Syria and Libya. This is why Americans will always keep getting screwed by the military industrial complex and other corporate leeches, because of people like you
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
ChuckeRearmed
Member
The only reason EU could build their welfare state is because the production was offfshore and miliary was maintained by USA. Europe did not need to do anything aside just trading and propping up their welfare.
LordCBH
Member
If the other nations in this planet didn't want the US to become the de facto world police, then they NEVER should have treated the US like the world police.
StueyDuck
Member
Have you just refused to educate yourself on what actually happened here?
Trump didnt bomb randomly and force regime change, it was a surgical strike with minimal casualties to remove a dictator who negotiated his own removal and was already wanted by "international law" for overthrowing democracy and forcing his opponent (who won) into hiding.
I can only assume you read the title and just assumed the US did mass air raids across Venezuela killing 1000s in the name of love or some nonsense.
Sonik
Member
This is like the egomaniacal guy at the office everyone makes fun of, assuming that everyone there wants him to lead them
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It's a fair position to take, but the consequences will also vary in that case. If the U.S. government was willing to do more than just take out one guy, there could be a whole bunch of ways to do that. With different risks and rewards, I suppose, but a lot of the speculations about this operation having a huge impact on energy markets are based on the regime being willing to play ball and that's...completely up in the air. They might do so, or they might not. More than likely, they will try to drag their feet and offer Trump just enough "free candy" to keep him satisfied while not changing anything significant.
Even among the cheering Venezuelans in social media, you can see a few of them start to worry and lament that the U.S. didn't go ahead and clear out the whole nest. They're still more happy than not, in the moment, but that might not last if those actually inside the country start facing the wrath of Maduro's heirs.
I can also see your point there with that last statement. Then again, is that really so different right now? Trump himself likes to make sudden flashy moves and then claim that he's "ended" various wars or solved much more complex issues. He uses them as wins, only for things to more or less revert back to status quo (already happening with the Gaza debacle). Why? Because he doesn't have the stomach to actually solve any of those problems for good. I don't entirely blame him, because as you've pointed out it's not like the previous administrations were necessarily any better in the end, but it's mostly a change in rhetoric and spectacle.
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Brazen
Member
Congress approval is hanging around 17%.
They also did nothing to protect us when it was open border invasion season.
So fuck em.
Zathalus
Member
Europe being so dependent on America was to the great benefit of America and Europe. The sheer volume of trade and services enriched both. And Europe being dependent on America was an absolutely strategic boon, it gave America enormous power over the continent and allowed American companies to thrive. It also massively benefitted American arms exports. If anything, Europe being so dependent on America was a long term blunder.
And the massive rearmament campaign in Europe at the moment is actually an economic boon. Who knew that propping up your local companies, job creation, and the massive investment into industry could actually lead to a more robust economy. Hell it's probably one of the main reasons Germany isn't in a recession right now.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Cause these thieves are all on the take and only worry about fundraising their elections.
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LordCBH
Member
If I had my way, Congress would be dissolved at this point and I'd just let this executive do whatever the fuck it wants. This Congress has been completely fucking useless and is more interested in bickering and complaining than actually doing its job.
LordCBH
Member
Cause these thieves are all on the take and only worry about fundraising their elections.
All the thieves in Congress care about is continuing the fraud, whether it be Somali day cares, or USAID. It's how they get rich as shit.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Get your real estate investment plans ready. Especially those with connections in Florida.
LordCBH
Member
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Get your real estate investment plans ready. Especially those with connections in Florida.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Funny mustache man's dream, really.
LordCBH
Member
Get your real estate investment plans ready. Especially those with connections in Florida.
European welfare states weren't built against the will of the U.S. or somehow taking advantage of it. Quite the opposite.
Strategically speaking, the U.S. wanted to make both the USSR and local Communist parties seem far less appealing during the Cold War (it was far from obvious that the USSR would eventually collapse). Strong social policies were useful to keep the European working class happy and satisfied with free market capitalism rather than seeking alternatives, legally or otherwise, and it also provided plenty of consumers for various U.S. goods and services, including but not limited to the defense industry, as well as guaranteeing that the U.S. would have plenty of military bases available worldwide and that it'd be able to take a key leadership role in conflicts.
None of that was unintentional or against the interests of "Uncle Sam" at the time.
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archangelmorph
Gold Member
Ok I'll bite.
How many foreign states have been toppled by China?
How many foreign wars have been instigated by Chinese state meddling?
How many foreigners have lost their lives on their own soil due to Chinese geopolitical interference?
What exactly, in your mind is China's foreign policy when it comes to acquisition or access to foreign natural resources via-a-vis the US?
Gp1
Member
The Banana Republic dictator playbook.
-Use the armed forces to stage a coup. (Chaves rising)
-Arm you military as retribution (2000 with oil booming)
-"ow, the military is too strong" arm a civil militia to be the defacto police. (2010, with revolutionary guard of whatever)
-Fuck the country's economy by focusing on maintaining power (2010/2015)
-Call for help of another asshole dictator to provide security. (2020)
It's the same every single time.
Unknown Soldier
Member
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Gp1
Member
China spent the last two centuries in a complete disarray. They recovered it only on the last 40-50 years.
How many foreign states has been toppled by Russia?
Apply it to every other question. Want the answer? See my penultimate post, and that's just the annexations.
Study just a little about what makes a Sea Power (USA), Land power (Russia/China), and how they project power.
Story and geopolitics isn't just the last 20 years.
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Freelance Yakuza
Member
I did some quick research on the topic, and it seems that the Venezuelan military controls practically every sector of the economy, and there are no real signs that they'll step away from power even if Maduro is removed.
So that's the situation: a dictator may have been taken out, but for now there's no solid indication that daily life in the country will actually improve. I really hope I'm wrong and that things do get better for them.
I've seen some people criticizing Venezuelans who celebrated Maduro's arrest, but that just sounds like a bunch of people who never had to live under his dictatorship telling those who did live through it that they're wrong for wanting something different. When you're suffering, you cling to any hope of change.
One thing that really makes me roll my eyes is when people say "they arrested the president of Venezuela." Did he actually win the last election? And if so, by how many votes? It's a joke.
So that's the situation: a dictator may have been taken out, but for now there's no solid indication that daily life in the country will actually improve. I really hope I'm wrong and that things do get better for them.
I've seen some people criticizing Venezuelans who celebrated Maduro's arrest, but that just sounds like a bunch of people who never had to live under his dictatorship telling those who did live through it that they're wrong for wanting something different. When you're suffering, you cling to any hope of change.
One thing that really makes me roll my eyes is when people say "they arrested the president of Venezuela." Did he actually win the last election? And if so, by how many votes? It's a joke.
LordCBH
Member
Well I AM a man of culture.
Signalis
Member
The ANC not the people of South Africa
I love the stupidity of the SA government
They are so fucking retarded that they'll just walk into shit head first without even remotely taking a second to think it through.
Like all shitty governments around the world, I like seeing them constantly fuck up, it helps people wake up and realize how moronic these world leaders are, gets them voted out.
Fuuuuck, retheming the worlds special forces as WH40kunits is dooooope.
Rangers
Israeli SF
Japanese SF
Marine Force Recon
We've announced that we are taking over administration of Venezuela until a future date when a proper transition can take place, and we will use further military force if the government doesn't comply. Remains to be seen how this will play out in practice though.
That would be extremely dumb, since this guy is leaving in something like six months and it's likely he'll be replaced by someone who's more U.S.-friendly.
Similarly, going after Mexico would also be a terrible idea.
I thought Rubio would have a better answer for this. Not a good sign, IMO.
Yes, the operation itself was extremely well executed. Congratulations to Delta Force and all the other forces involved.
However, it might have been well worth the risk to take out 2 or 3 of those other top guys in the process. You wouldn't need five days for that.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Zathalus
Member
Depends on how the EU develops. But a disunited Europe is a far greater catastrophe than that could ever be. See virtually everything that has happened to Europe in the past five years.
The current bureaucratic mess is hardly ideal either. Every major EU decision must be acceptable to dozens of governments, legal systems, voters, and courts. So rules multiply to avoid anyone losing control. Funnily enough, the EU being so democratic and beholden to sovereign states is exactly why it is such a bureaucratic nightmare. Some trimming there will weaken the individual states, but it will give the EU far more flexibility, and be more directly beholden to the voters of the EU parliament. Paradoxically, that could mean the average EU voter's voice matters more, not less. But only if the power shift is done democratically, not technocratically.
Naturally how the EU develops should be the concern of Europeans. Not abolishing it and being beholden to the whims of America and China.
So far, it looks more like a statement of intention rather than a reflection of current realities on the ground.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's literally only been a hair over 24 hours.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I think it will be like a proxy government where nothing much changes but no more antics from Venezuela.
One way or another cartels have to be dealt with because it is pretty clear Mexico does not want to do that (corruption + threats).
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LordCBH
Member
100%. Mexico won't deal with them because the Mexican government is just an arm of the cartels.
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