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[DeepEnigma]

International law.

The adults have entered the chat.

The room temps will tell Taiwan why they're wrong to feel that way.

I'm waiting for more baller kaiju inspired Chinese memes to come out.

 

[jason10mm]

It would be more about strategic military expansion/placement and a wealth of raw mineral and gas resources under all of that ice, now that technology has advanced enough to be able to extract it.

I don't think Trump has any intention to do anything about/to Greenland, he's just setting the stage for a future operation and basically marking it as US turf, regardless of who runs it on paper.

 

[Gp1]

You wanted them to attack Russia or what?

This shattered any illusions that some countries had about Russia but of course western Europe still wanted that cheap gas. Lech Kaczyński (Polish president) warned the world in 2008, he said that Ukraine will be attacked in the future and he wasn't wrong.

And Russia expanding their interests absolutely should be a concern to USA, but according to some people Russia is an ally now so maybe not...

Remember that?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

The adults have entered the chat.

The room temps will tell Taiwan why they're wrong to feel that way.

I'm waiting for more baller kaiju inspired Chinese memes to come out.

At least it demonstrated that USA is still capable of effective operations. Since early 2000s, it has been a notion that american military is inept - because literally no a single war was truly won or anything impressive happened. Aside Israel, not a single military force showed any effective action. USA was either getting stuck in various conflicts or was just droning groups without any particular results. This operation is comparable to Israeli in effectiveness. Very impressive.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wasn't just about oil. Reducing it to that is far to simplistic.

It's about protecting the hemisphere the US is in. China and Russia both reaped benefits from Venezuela. That's over now. They don't get to project power near us. They don't have the right to do so, and as we've shown they can't stop us from stopping them. This is our backyard, we control it and protect our interests. They don't get to ship drugs into the country, send prisoners and illegals over, and try and destabilize the west. The US has every right to defend its interests.

There's no such thing as international law. NATO and these other groups wouldn't even exist without the US, we are the arm they use to exert any potential form of control.

At least it demonstrated that USA is still capable of effective operations. Since early 2000s, it has been a notion that american military is inept - because literally no a single war was truly won or anything impressive happened. Aside Israel, not a single military force showed any effective action. USA was either getting stuck in various conflicts or was just droning groups without any particular results. This operation is comparable to Israeli in effectiveness. Very impressive.

It's almost as if there are qualified people on the job.

 

[LordCBH]

It's almost as if there are qualified people on the job.

Yeah but according to the commies he's (Pete) just a drunk Fox News anchor being employed by a serial golfer.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This is the group that managed to stand up the protests on the same day of the event, with thousands of paid protestors waving perfectly printed signs within 5 hours of it happening

I'm impressed by their organizational skills and their funding if nothing else

 

[LordCBH]

This is the group that managed to stand up the protests on the same day of the event, with thousands of paid protestors waving perfectly printed signs within 5 hours of it happening

I'm impressed by their organizational skills and their funding if nothing else

They're fortunate they live in a nation that (unfortunately) allows this bullshit.

 

[ADiTAR]

This is the group that managed to stand up the protests on the same day of the event, with thousands of paid protestors waving perfectly printed signs within 5 hours of it happening

I'm impressed by their organizational skills and their funding if nothing else

Yeah, I remember the protests on 8/10 when the bodies weren't even cold.

 

[Meicyn]

At least it demonstrated that USA is still capable of effective operations. Since early 2000s, it has been a notion that american military is inept - because literally no a single war was truly won or anything impressive happened. Aside Israel, not a single military force showed any effective action. USA was either getting stuck in various conflicts or was just droning groups without any particular results. This operation is comparable to Israeli in effectiveness. Very impressive.

This is just straight up nonsense.

https://www.coffeeordie.com/article/wagner-group-syria-khasham

"To make it short, we've had our fucking asses kicked," one Wagner Group veteran reportedly says in a recording. "Yeah so, one squadron fucking lost 200 people immediately … Another one lost 10 people, and I don't know about the third squadron, but it got torn up pretty badly too … They tore us to pieces."

Just the first example that immediately came to mind. There are plenty of others.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is the group that managed to stand up the protests on the same day of the event, with thousands of paid protestors waving perfectly printed signs within 5 hours of it happening

I'm impressed by their organizational skills and their funding if nothing else

Yep, So organic, much grassroots!!!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Remember I was talking about Somaliland the other day

This is an interesting event on two levels:

- Control of the Gulf of Aden and the entry to the Red Sea. 30% of the world's container shipping traffic passes through the Gulf of Aden, the Red Sea, and the Suez Canal. The Houthi rebels in Yemen were engaging in piracy and missile attacks to try and block this critical shipping route

- Direct counterstrike on the Somali community in the US, led by Rep. Ilhan Omar and the Minnesota Somalis who are currently implicated in a fraud scandal which has already brought down MN Governor Tim Walz

 

[Forsete]

This is just straight up nonsense.

https://www.coffeeordie.com/article/wagner-group-syria-khasham

"To make it short, we've had our fucking asses kicked," one Wagner Group veteran reportedly says in a recording. "Yeah so, one squadron fucking lost 200 people immediately … Another one lost 10 people, and I don't know about the third squadron, but it got torn up pretty badly too … They tore us to pieces."

Just the first example that immediately came to mind. There are plenty of others.

I remember reading that.

They lost around 30k taking Bachmut. There are interviews from foreign legion soldiers talking about the Russian meat assaults they witnessed in Bachmut. Prigozhin made videos of him walking in fields full of bodies.

It is really amazing how little a human life is worth in Russia.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

 

[calico]

You don't simply switch to an alternative with an economy of over 500 million people overnight.

If only they had listened to President Trump in 2018.

 

[diffusionx]

The adults have entered the chat.

The room temps will tell Taiwan why they're wrong to feel that way.

I'm waiting for more baller kaiju inspired Chinese memes to come out.

I actually do disagree and I think this gives plenty of precedence for China to do the exact same thing if they are so inclined and could pull it off. Could they pull it off... I doubt it, but it doesn't change the situation.

I don't think it is better to be leading a country in the sights of a world power today than it was last week.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I actually do disagree and I think this gives plenty of precedence for China to do the exact same thing if they are so inclined and could pull it off.

No, it shows China that USA can do action if necessary to defend their really important interests. It is more of a question whether Taiwan is as important. Before it was more of a question whether USA will do anything - more than just "red lines" how they did with Ukraine. Just like Russia, China does not care as its only issue is how it controls the local population.

That event in Venezuela changed the expectations across the board. Arguably even strike in Iran should have shown that, but as everybody looked at as an attack on a weakened country during war with Israel.

 

[DeepEnigma]

precedence for China

This is the biggest BS 'ganda talking point that gets repeated ad nauseam every time something happens.

 

[EviLore]

Before Maduro: China will do whatever it wants to that it thinks it can get away with
After Maduro: China will do whatever it wants to that it thinks it can get away with, and is reminded very clearly about what happens when someone opposes the US military

 

[calico]

Precedent is overstated. The calculation has always been 'is action x worth the consequences?'

 

[Baemono]

They're fortunate they live in a nation that (unfortunately) allows this bullshit.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Yep, So organic, much grassroots!!!

These fake NGOs should be all treated as terrorist or dissident groups. Amnesty International, Antifa, The Davos Forum, the WEF, Open Society Foundation, etc. they all need to be exposed as enemies of the Western civilization, even if that means finger pointing at a few American VIPs. They have done more harm than any dictator or enemy army in the last century.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Precedent is overstated. The calculation has always been 'is action x worth the consequences?'

That's exactly right.

 

[Critical Hit]

There was a lease time or something, but China has decided to do it earlier or something.

Time's up, afaik. The problem was that the people of HK didn't want to return to China.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[RJMacready73]

Before Maduro: China will do whatever it wants to that it thinks it can get away with
After Maduro: China will do whatever it wants to that it thinks it can get away with, and is reminded very clearly about what happens when someone opposes the US military

It's certainly a reminder of just how good the American military machine can be when it's given an impossible task and unlimited resources

 

[Zathalus]

The abduction of Maduro doesn't really change what China will do one way or the other. They will attack Taiwan if they feel it is worth it, no matter what other countries may or may not think. Next year at the earliest, but far more likely sometime in the 2030s by then they will have nine Aircraft Carriers. That's if it happens at all, strategic needs and goals change all the time.

China will certainly have the capability, Taiwan's only saving grace is if countries like Japan and the USA decide to defend them. That seems increasingly unlikely outside of sanctions and economic pressure despite the rhetoric. If it escalates to a shooting war the winner of that is up in the air.

 

[Tams]

I'll tell you what it is. It's a fiction. It's a concept that serves little purpose than to give countries who have no power to enforce their will onto others the illusion that they can. And as the actual balance of power in the world has shifted, it's been incessantly screeched about more and more by those that got used to feeling way more important than they are.

"International law", "international order", "international norms", or whatever you choose to call it, is impotent without the ability to enforce it on those who break from it. It didn't stop the US from invading Iraq. It didn't stop Russia from invading Ukraine. Twice. It didn't stop 27 years of tyranny in Venezuela or Maduro from forcefully taking the presidency, sending unmarked drug boats into international waters, or ghost oil tanker fleets that dodged sanctions to the benefit of countries like Russia and Iran. It hasn't liberated the people of North Korea. It hasn't stopped the genocide in Sudan. It won't stop China from attacking Taiwan.

It's a joke. It doesn't actually exist. It is entirely reliant on having the backing of the US to enforce it. Meaning the US effectively decides what "international law" really is. It's a leash given to a 90-pound woman so she thinks she's in control of a 200-pound mastiff.



Mentally ill.

This.

Even the bad (from our Western perspective) regimes have had fuck all done to them by being held to account to 'International XYZ' that isn't retrospectively.

In fact, I can't name a single instance where it has.

Korea? Outside of the South Korean forces, US led with small but significant UK (when the British Empire was still around, just) and Turkish forces among others.

The Balkans? Had to be pushed by the US.

Yet those same advocates of 'International XYZ' are often the ones who screech when something is done... just not by them.

 

[EviLore]

The abduction of Maduro doesn't really change what China will do one way or the other. They will attack Taiwan if they feel it is worth it, no matter what other countries may or may not think. Next year at the earliest, but far more likely sometime in the 2030s by then they will have nine Aircraft Carriers. That's if it happens at all, strategic needs and goals change all the time.

China will certainly have the capability, Taiwan's only saving grace is if countries like Japan and the USA decide to defend them. That seems increasingly unlikely outside of sanctions and economic pressure despite the rhetoric. If it escalates to a shooting war the winner of that is up in the air.

0% chance of China winning a shooting war against the United States.

 

[Brucey]

Before Maduro: China will do whatever it wants to that it thinks it can get away with
After Maduro: China will do whatever it wants to that it thinks it can get away with, and is reminded very clearly about what happens when someone opposes the US military

Yes sleepy Joe has left the building can say many things about Trump but weakness or failure to take decisive action is not one of them. If China wants to try and take Taiwan they'll wait for another Democrat administration.

 

[Icymanipulator]

This was a great, straightforward explanation.

 

[jason10mm]

The abduction of Maduro doesn't really change what China will do one way or the other. They will attack Taiwan if they feel it is worth it, no matter what other countries may or may not think. Next year at the earliest, but far more likely sometime in the 2030s by then they will have nine Aircraft Carriers. That's if it happens at all, strategic needs and goals change all the time.

China will certainly have the capability, Taiwan's only saving grace is if countries like Japan and the USA decide to defend them. That seems increasingly unlikely outside of sanctions and economic pressure despite the rhetoric. If it escalates to a shooting war the winner of that is up in the air.

I dunno. Xi is 72 now, can he really put off Taiwan till the 30's? Given his lack of any kind of clear successor, the power struggle after he dies/steps down would probably prevent any kind of major action like that for another couple of years, by then it will be an even harder objective as that just pushes their age bubble even farther up from military age.

 

[IDKFA]

The abduction of Maduro doesn't really change what China will do one way or the other. They will attack Taiwan if they feel it is worth it, no matter what other countries may or may not think.

Unlikely.

As the world's largest trading nation, China is financially reliant on trade. Any invasion of Taiwan would be damaging for the world economy, but absolutely crippling for China.

It wouldn't be worth it because the legitimacy of the CCP is largely built on economic growth. A wrecked economy could lead to widespread social unrest, which is a big fear for the CCP as it would challenge their grip on power.

The CCP know this. This is why there is just a lot of dick waving and saber rattling.

 

[Zathalus]

0% chance of China winning a shooting war against the United States.

In terms of destroying the US Navy? Or being able to significantly threaten it across the globe? No, of course not. It terms of securing objectives such as an amphibious landing in 2035? It's possible. Absolute Fleet-tonnage will be very close, and China will have surface ship number superiority.

The type 52D is roughly comparable to the latest flight III Arleigh Burke. The type 55 is frankly superior to the Ticonderoga in most respects (the US Navy has really dropped the ball here). Anti-ship ballistic missiles favor China, especially the DF series, which can be a major threat to carrier strike groups. Shipbuilding, surge capacity, and industrial might is not even close, China leads this by a lot.

But China will still lag in terms of aircraft carrier numbers and capability (never mind a doctrine that is likely far inferior), and fighters will still be behind the best the USA has like the F-35C, although the J-35 is closing that gap. Nuclear attacks subs still heavily favor the USN. If it was anywhere else on earth, the USN will still have the advantage, but in Chinas backyard the calculation isn't that cut and dry.

By 2035 China can't beat the US Navy, but it can very likely secure the waters around Taiwan, if not a significant slice of the Western Pacific. That's if it happens at all. Which is probably still unlikely.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

0% chance of China winning a shooting war against the United States.

Yeah. I think a lot of chinese command will be paralyzed due to very strict hierarchies as lower commanders will be afraid to make decisions. It is not as bad as arabs, who basically do not follow orders of people who are not from their clan though.

 

[Chittagong]

I bet if the US asked Denmark if they could build 50 extra bases they would've been allowed to, but no they got to take it over with force.

How did we even get here...

European arrogance and complacency. A country of 5 million people figured they can keep hold of a country the size of a continent, with immense natural resources, and a strategic geopolitical position, with fuck all investment in defence or infrastructure, because of "international law" and "decency". Same method Europe has used to manage its own defence (except for Finland, Poland and UK).

 

[Brucey]

The abduction of Maduro doesn't really change what China will do one way or the other. They will attack Taiwan if they feel it is worth it, no matter what other countries may or may not think. Next year at the earliest, but far more likely sometime in the 2030s by then they will have nine Aircraft Carriers. That's if it happens at all, strategic needs and goals change all the time.

China will certainly have the capability, Taiwan's only saving grace is if countries like Japan and the USA decide to defend them. That seems increasingly unlikely outside of sanctions and economic pressure despite the rhetoric. If it escalates to a shooting war the winner of that is up in the air.

They may build another 6, but their current three are conventionally powered. Pretty good video showing that the true challenge will be to get the experience and time under the belt, something the US has had generations of experience with including combat conditions.

 

[RJMacready73]

0% chance of China winning a shooting war against the United States.

There's no winners in a war between them two, it'll be played out in the Pacific between carrier groups and subs and the losses on either side would be immense so as to render it mute, won't happen

 

[Zathalus]

They may build another 6, but their current three are conventionally powered. Pretty good video showing that the true challenge will be to get the experience and time under the belt, something the US has had generation of experience with including combat conditions.

Conventionally powered is a problem for blue water projection. Not a major issue for striking Taiwan. Correct on the doctrine issue, the US Navy has had decades to perfect the usage of aircraft carriers. China is utterly unproven in this field. Aircraft carriers will likely be the key advantage of the USN for at least another two decades to come. Probably one of the reasons that China has been so aggressive with hypersonic missile research and development.

 

[Baemono]

Welp I didn't expect that, I must be too naive

That Video of Happy Crying Venezuelans After Maduro’s Kidnapping? It’s AI Slop

"The people cry for their freedom, thanks to the United States for freeing us."

www.yahoo.com

 

[Tams]

Harriers still being worthwhile. It's a disgrace the UK sold ours to the US for less than scrap.

 

[Icymanipulator]

Welp I didn't expect that, I must be too naive

That Video of Happy Crying Venezuelans After Maduro’s Kidnapping? It’s AI Slop

"The people cry for their freedom, thanks to the United States for freeing us."

www.yahoo.com

Oh course it's to be expected now. With everything. That's the world now.

But to imply that people aren't celebrating would be wrong.

 

[Baemono]

Oh course it's to be expected now. With everything. That's the world now.

But to imply that people aren't celebrating would be wrong.

No of course but like I wouldn't imagine something like this event would trigger AI content.

Now I won't trust anything

 

[Critical Hit]

But China will still lag in terms

China lags far behind in terms of combat experience, which is a very important factor. If I'm not mistaken, their last major war was in Korea, where they relied on sheer numbers and guerrilla warfare. But who knows, maybe they're fighting 24/7 wars in VR right now.

 

[EviLore]

 

[Baemono]

 

[DeepEnigma]

US oil companies built Venezuela's oil rigs and industry, only exited when Chavez seized the means of production.

Chevron was the only one to remain so...

 

[Baemono]

What about the disastrous events caused by bombing Libya and helping overthrow Muammar Gaddafi?

Because that's what Obama did...

Ask the people who are screaming about what Trump did if they were fine with Obama doing something much worse. Strange how that works, huh?

Yeah no Libya is more caused by the French. People didn't really understood why back then but recently former president of France was sentenced to jail after acceptîng money from Gaddafi during his presidential campain and then making sure he wouldn't talk by convincing its allies to put Gaddafi down.

 

[Unknown?]

Interesting take. She believes it's about protecting the petrodollar system primarily(among other things like oil) because more and more countries are not using dollars..

 

[//DEVIL//]

Wasn't just about oil. Reducing it to that is far to simplistic.

It's about protecting the hemisphere the US is in. China and Russia both reaped benefits from Venezuela. That's over now. They don't get to project power near us. They don't have the right to do so, and as we've shown they can't stop us from stopping them. This is our backyard, we control it and protect our interests. They don't get to ship drugs into the country, send prisoners and illegals over, and try and destabilize the west. The US has every right to defend its interests.

There's no such thing as international law. NATO and these other groups wouldn't even exist without the US, we are the arm they use to exert any potential form of control.

Ding Ding Ding