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NVIDIA DLSS 4.5 to feature 2nd Gen Transformer model and Dynamic 6x Frame Generation
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
This is getting so confusing, so it seems the original post I made is still valid, nvidia seem to think M is for performance otherwise it doesn't make much sense compared to K
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Thanks for these comparisons! IQ is definitely improved but it seems the performance hit isn't worth it unless you're on a 5000 series card, where the hit is reportedly 3-5%.
....Although DLSSQ 4.5 looks as good (or maybe even a touch better) as DLAA 4.0 in these shots, with much better performance.... So who the fuck knows lol
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Again, another Nvidia employee says that M is intended for all modes, not just performance:
And here's another Nvidia employee disagreeing with the above Nvidia employee:
Gotta love when Nvidia themselves don't even agree on the best way to use their tech
So honestly who the fuck knows at this point. Clear as mud.
What I can say is that in my experience and in my own 1:1 screenshot comparing, M looks better.
geary
Member
Am i understandin wrong or why dont you use balance 4.5 instead of Quality 4.0 since is inproving the visuals and offset the loss in performance ?
Windom Earle
Banned
But will it run on Switch 2?
Zathalus
Gold Member
For releasing a free update that is completely optional to use?
Luipadre
Member
I tried it in AC shadows. It still didnt looked as good as DLSS4 quality and saw some "oil paint" effect on some object. Also i might be wrong, but i can see a small blur when moving the camera with dlss4.5 and thats not present with 4
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Fuck sake. Guess Ill have to test it myself.
Senua
Member
You don't have to use it, not like you own a gaming pc anyway
Bojji
Gold Member
Cost for 4xxx and 5xxx is very similar. For 3xxx and 2xxx is 2x frame time (4k M model)
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SolidQ
Member
Bojji
Gold Member
More options. On amd you have shit quality (fsr3) or good quality (fsr4) but only for rDNA4, older cards can only have shit quality upscaling...
On NVIDIA you have good quality (dlss3), better quality (dlss4) and the best quality (dlss4.5).
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DeaconOfTheDank
Member
Output resolution is 5120x2160 with HDR enabled (12bit) using DLSS quality mode on a 5090
Corporal.Hicks
Banned
Despite the performance hit, DLSS 4.5 still makes sense in my opinion. DLSS Quality 4.5 looks very nice on my 4K panel, as good as DLAA (native) 4.0, while still running faster.
Also, DLSSP performs the same on my card in DLSS 4.0 and 4.5, so I think I will use DLSS 4.5 in the most demanding PT games.
DLSS Performance 4.0 - 103 fps
DLSS Performance 4.5 - 103 fps
Ultra Performance DLSS 4.5 is even faster compared to 4.0. However, for some strange reason, 4.5 DLSS looks worse in this mode; there's a strong ant like noise in the image.
DLSS Ultra Performance 4.5 - 127 fps
DLSS Ultra Performance 4.0 - 122fps
TheStam
Member
This is hilariously confusing.
I have been running Avatar with Preset K, DLSS Quality, 2xFG at 4k. Updated to Preset M and while the image felt slightly sharper I honestly couldn't see any improvement in ghosting. I also tried it with Performance just to see and the ghosting was rather bad. But these sort of things seem to be game specific in my experience.
Seems like recommendation playing at Quality is to go back to K. But then I guess there was no improvement with this release unless you play at Performance or Ultra Performance.
I have been running Avatar with Preset K, DLSS Quality, 2xFG at 4k. Updated to Preset M and while the image felt slightly sharper I honestly couldn't see any improvement in ghosting. I also tried it with Performance just to see and the ghosting was rather bad. But these sort of things seem to be game specific in my experience.
Seems like recommendation playing at Quality is to go back to K. But then I guess there was no improvement with this release unless you play at Performance or Ultra Performance.
kevboard
Member
the main improvements seem to be particle effects not being swallowed by the transformer model with the new preset.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
If you have Ray Reconstruction on in Avatar you aren't actually using DLSS 4.5, as RR is still limited to 4.0
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TheStam
Member
I managed to update RR to a new v310.5 version in DLSS Swapper and am running the M profile in the Nvidia app so I thought it would be ok then. What preset am I even running then, lol
Oh I see now there is DLSS RR preset in DLSS Swapper and it's set to default but DLSS is set to M
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DirtInUrEye
Banned
Here's a couple of old vs new using L with ultra performance 4k:
Coincidentally, the performance flips numbers between the two scenes. Basically, the only improvement is indeed to image quality and it is also mildly better in motion, although I personally still wouldn't use this mode. You can't really appreciate it in photos, but in the first image using 4.0 the ceiling exhibits visible sparking pixel shimmer which 4.5 does away with, and it looks much more stable during gameplay. Same goes for the shifting puddle on the floor, the shimmer is eradicated in the new version. It's a decent uplift, but nothing radical. Still, when you remember it's upscaling from 720p... very impressive stuff nonetheless.
Coincidentally, the performance flips numbers between the two scenes. Basically, the only improvement is indeed to image quality and it is also mildly better in motion, although I personally still wouldn't use this mode. You can't really appreciate it in photos, but in the first image using 4.0 the ceiling exhibits visible sparking pixel shimmer which 4.5 does away with, and it looks much more stable during gameplay. Same goes for the shifting puddle on the floor, the shimmer is eradicated in the new version. It's a decent uplift, but nothing radical. Still, when you remember it's upscaling from 720p... very impressive stuff nonetheless.
Luipadre
Member
Im pretty sure this DLSS4.5 meant for 4k performance stuff. It looks terrible at 1440p, especially in ARC.
//DEVIL//
Member
I am confused. how is M is meant to be for super performance when its taking the hit that big in fps ? at this rate if you run it in a quality upscaler, it will run worse than native -_-
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
DLSS Super Resolution is set to Balanced in that video. Nvidia wants you to use Performance instead. That should alleviate the performance hit.
yamaci17
Member
but doesn't ray reconstruction ignore new presets?
Bojji
Gold Member
I'm not sure, maybe that's the case (my early tests suggested zero performance difference with RR on vs few % with RR off). But game still looks better so maybe new RR .dll produces better results.
DirtInUrEye
Banned
I have been happily using 4k balanced mode with 4.0 in Arc Raiders, but trying out 4.5 performance mode actually cost me frames to the point that it dipped under my fps lock even in the shooting range. 4070 ti Super.
All in all this update has no use to me. The existing version was already more than capable anyway, so it's no issue, but it's just a bit disappointing I suppose.
DirtInUrEye
Banned
Don't you mean 114 fps? That is what RTSS reports as being optimal, assuming you're on a 120hz panel.
dgrdsv
Member
Jacob has been saying a lot of questionable stuff today.
I'd argue that the developers of DLSS know, and not only they clearly state that M should be used with P mode but this is also what the DLSS does on its own if you just switch between UP/P/B/Q modes without any external forcing.
Doesn't mean that M (or even L) can't be used with lower ratio modes if you want to try them this way but YMMV.
New presets are for SR. RR is a completely different upscaler with its own set of presets, and there were no changes in 4.5.
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ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Some of my own QHD CP2077 shots with DLSS 4.5 quality. FPS dipped a bit, but my god fine details are finally there. I'm rocking RTX 4080 (the launch one).
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
So here's Nvidia's "final say" with DLSS 4.5:
Long story short is if you have the head room, Model M does appear to be the way to go for increased image quality, motion clarity, and temporal stability. But the performance hit is large enough that Nvidia doesn't feel comfortable advertising it as the "set it and forget it" model.
Honestly it's a cluster fuck and I have no idea why they even rolled this out if there's so many stipulations. As a 5090 owner I'm sticking with forcing Model M though.
- Even though it's 20 Series and 30 Series compatible, there's a massive performance hit because they don't support FP8 precision
- In my mind, there's no point in even considering using DLSS 4.5 for these older cards
- Model M (as well as L) benefits over past models in any mode, but the performance hit is significant enough, even on 40 and 50 Series cards, that Nvidia still recommends DLSS 4 for DLAA/DLSS Quality/DLSS Balanced for the best quality/performance ratio
- So Model M is indeed "better", but the performance hit is too large for Nvidia to recommended it with the higher quality scaling options
- Ray Reconstruction has not been updated to DLSS 4.5, so if you turn it on in any game, you will be held back to DLSS 4.0/1st gen transformer architecture regardless of your other settings
- This is just dumb. Why release DLSS 4.5 if it's not ready across all of the RTX featuresets?
Long story short is if you have the head room, Model M does appear to be the way to go for increased image quality, motion clarity, and temporal stability. But the performance hit is large enough that Nvidia doesn't feel comfortable advertising it as the "set it and forget it" model.
Honestly it's a cluster fuck and I have no idea why they even rolled this out if there's so many stipulations. As a 5090 owner I'm sticking with forcing Model M though.
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Corporal.Hicks
Banned
Guys, can you select the M preset in the Nvidia app or the Nvidia inspector? I dont see this letter (M preset). I can only select "use the latest", which uses the M preset in some games but not all. In Assetto Corsa Rally, the DLSS overlay says that preset M is used, but in Black Myth: Wukong, the game uses preset K even when the latest DLSS is forced.
However, I noticed that, even with the K preset, Black Myth: Wukong has better image quality. Fine details have better contrast and stand out more. DLSS FG ghosting is also nonexistent now, even when I try to look for it.
However, I noticed that, even with the K preset, Black Myth: Wukong has better image quality. Fine details have better contrast and stand out more. DLSS FG ghosting is also nonexistent now, even when I try to look for it.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
There's zero difference with the K preset.
You have to opt in to the beta in the Nvidia app to unlock DLSS 4.5/M preset. Full, non-beta release is coming in a week. You would also have to update your Nvidia Inspector app to support DLSS 4.5.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
You probably don't have the latest version of the Nvidia Profile inspector. A new version came out 9 hours ago.
GitHub - Orbmu2k/nvidiaProfileInspector at 2.4.0.29
Contribute to Orbmu2k/nvidiaProfileInspector development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
Rossco EZ
Member
are you on latest release?
Release NVPI Revamped · xHybred/NvidiaProfileInspectorRevamped
Changelog Added new DLSS 4.5 preset support, which includes adding preset L & M, & a new model override feature RTX 50 series 32b GPU PhysX support (under compatability section) has received minor...
github.com
dreamstation
Member
So I installed the latest nvidia drivers but if I don't want to use any of this new stuff I just don't touch anything correct? My game settings should still take priority because I think that is the default setting in Nvidia app.
Corporal.Hicks
Banned
Thanks, guys! Preset M now works in Black Myth: Wukong, but only when I use DLSSP (50% res scale). If I use a higher resolutions, such as DLSSB or DLSSQ, the game switches to DLSS K automatically.
The image quality (DLSSP M preset) is disappointing though. The entire image appears clearly oversharpened. In my opinion, DLSSP with preset K (using the latest 310.5 DLL) looks better in black myth wukong, especially when paired with the latest FG DLL (there's zero ghosting now).
The image quality (DLSSP M preset) is disappointing though. The entire image appears clearly oversharpened. In my opinion, DLSSP with preset K (using the latest 310.5 DLL) looks better in black myth wukong, especially when paired with the latest FG DLL (there's zero ghosting now).
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The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
So here's Nvidia's "final say" with DLSS 4.5:
- Even though it's 20 Series and 30 Series compatible, there's a massive performance hit because they don't support FP8 precision
- In my mind, there's no point in even considering using DLSS 4.5 for these older cards
- Model M (as well as L) benefits over past models in any mode, but the performance hit is significant enough, even on 40 and 50 Series cards, that Nvidia still recommends DLSS 4 for DLAA/DLSS Quality/DLSS Balanced for the best quality/performance ratio
- So Model M is indeed "better", but the performance hit is too large for Nvidia to recommended it with the higher quality scaling options
- Ray Reconstruction has not been updated to DLSS 4.5, so if you turn it on in any game, you will be held back to DLSS 4.0/1st gen transformer architecture regardless of your other settings
- This is just dumb. Why release DLSS 4.5 if it's not ready across all of the RTX featuresets?
Long story short is if you have the head room, Model M does appear to be the way to go for increased image quality, motion clarity, and temporal stability. But the performance hit is large enough that Nvidia doesn't feel comfortable advertising it as the "set it and forget it" model.
Honestly it's a cluster fuck and I have no idea why they even rolled this out if there's so many stipulations. As a 5090 owner I'm sticking with forcing Model M though.
Basically 4k use M performance. 1440p and below stick to balanced/quality K. They made the new model more for 4k resolutions than anything else I guess.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Somethings funky with M.
Why is 4.5 adding more shadows? Look at far left cliffs and trees...dafuq? I checked with native as well and there are no shadows there either, it's just something that 4.5 does. Not sure if I like its over-sharpening tho. Feels like it's reconstructing and adding things by itself or maybe its just an issue with Avatar. Even the waterfall is different.
Why is 4.5 adding more shadows? Look at far left cliffs and trees...dafuq? I checked with native as well and there are no shadows there either, it's just something that 4.5 does. Not sure if I like its over-sharpening tho. Feels like it's reconstructing and adding things by itself or maybe its just an issue with Avatar. Even the waterfall is different.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Never played Avatar, but do clouds cast shadows? It feels like the weather changed the scene.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
They do but, I reloaded and retested, It's always the same difference. I didnt take the shots in the same load. Always reloading. You can alsoo see the clouds that they have the same shape and position, so they dont reset after reloading the save.
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Senua
Member
It's the future whether you like it or not. I love DLSS, best AI feature for me except maybe the videos of cats playing music or shooting guns outside people's houses at 2am
We're at the point where traditional raster rendering is at a dead end getting only small incremental increases generation to generation.
The current forms of AI upscaling and frame generation might not be the best path forward. But with the extremely high refresh displays coming out, they are currently the only want to max out those displays.