Windom Earle
Banned
Might need to do a new playthrough. This game with DLSS 4.5 is quite something.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
NVIDIA DLSS 4.5 to feature 2nd Gen Transformer model and Dynamic 6x Frame Generation
Bojji
Gold Member
Yeah, 4.5 looks pristine in RDR2.
So do think DLSS 4.5 is worth giving up RR during path tracing in Cyberpunk in performance mode? I'm going to check it out soon, but i'm interested in hearing others experiences.
yamaci17
Member
personally ray reconstruction makes the lighting look incredibly immersive and cohesive
i experimented a bit but had to go back to ray reconstruction
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Yep. Pair that with some texture overhaul mods and some LOD mods and it feels like a legit remaster.
Thanks. I've been using the RR and the DLSS transformer model that's built into the Cyberpunk menu. Do you (or anyone else) know if overriding preset K and the latest RR will provide further benefits or does Cyberpunk already have the latest models built in?
Last edited:
yamaci17
Member
overriding the ray reconstruction in nvidia app to latest makes the game use something called preset D for ray reconstruction
i didn't see any difference in image quality with that though
dolabla
Member
Anybody else getting weird dlss frame gen artifacts in Cyberpunk? Seems it's on all presets on my end. I tried FSR frame gen 3.1 and it disappears. It looks like you can see the frames generating. Almost like screen tearing. I notice it in the sunny desert while on the roads on foot.
3liteDragon
Member
Nah I'd rather wait for them to release a 2nd gen version for RR, path tracing looks weird without RR.
Tarnpanzer
Member
M Performance looks sharper than K Quality here. And has more fps. Is this witchcraft?
Last edited:
kiphalfton
Member
That's all fine and dandy, except the NPCs and cutscenes look like crap.
Simpdimples
Member
also less latency and less ram usage. holy shit
viveks86
Member
How low can we go with L and ultra performance and still have a decent image? I saw some 540p which looked great. Can we do 480p? 360p?!720p base here, L vs. old (whatever is on when RR is turned on):
Full pics:
yamaci17
Member
preset L loooks mostly decent at 480p with 1440p output in terms of image clarity. but there are certain graphical issues. volumetric effects in long distances can appear blocky. there are probably more issues that would come up if I were to play more with it
ryzen 5600 is not happy though
Last edited:
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
DLSS 4.5 is awesome for Star Citizen in VR. I don't have any screenshots to share here because it's VR but it is noticeably sharper in the headset with less artifacts and better performance with DLAA.
I also notice a difference with games like CP2077 but it's not as noticeable except with a side by side comparison. It's easier to notice the difference in VR but that's because the VR headset is next to your eyeballs lol.
I also notice a difference with games like CP2077 but it's not as noticeable except with a side by side comparison. It's easier to notice the difference in VR but that's because the VR headset is next to your eyeballs lol.
Last edited:
Corporal.Hicks
Banned
I don't think RR disables the latest DLSS 4.5, even though the DLSS overlay says the game uses an old DLSS (D) preset with RR activated. There's still a noticeable quality improvement compared to standard D preset. The only downside is additional performance cost, but I think the trade-off is worth it because, before RR, the image looked like oil paint and lacked fine details.
Last edited:
Corporal.Hicks
Banned
Thanks! I installed this HDR fix for MGS3Delta, and as you said, the HDR is perfect now. MGS3 delta with RenoDX HDR is easily one of the best-looking games I've played. With that HDR contrast and detail the jungle in this game looks real. Even the biggest UE5 critic would be amazed by how good this game looks in HDR on a 4K OLED. I'm also happy that this game runs at 4K DLSS with the latest FG at 120 fps. I saw some ghosting previously, but that's been fixed.
I tested Cyberpunk today. RenoDX fixed the black level, so now I can see pure black in dimly lit areas. However, in most locations, the difference isn't so noticeable because this game has strong highlights, and my eyes adjust to the strong contrast, so unless I'm looking at totally black space I perceive a good black level. I think I even prefer the default color grading despite black rise because it's easier to navigate in dark locations. The transition between extremely dark and bright areas is also smoother, which makes it more cinematic (filmmakers often use similar color grading). However, that's just my preference and I understand why people may like this fix.
Last edited:
daninthemix
Banned
I guess the idea is just to use P mode at 4K for everything going forward. Need to make sure the tensor cores themselves don't become the bottleneck to rendering though. With increasing load from DLSS and then framegen.
GymWolf
Gold Member
How hard is it to use?
GymWolf
Gold Member
Do you have to play in ultra performance mode to use 4.5?
And in your opinion, is balanced transformer 4.0 every pixel as good as gcn quality or better? Or gcn quality only get beat by transformer quality?°
Like i want to save some frames going with balanced but not if the iq suffer, so i end up always choosing quality no matter what.
This is 2nd gen Transformer tech from Nvidia while AMD is (still) using CNNs. By the time PS6/Magnus launch, Nvidia will be several generations away on the Transformer tech. It seems that there will be a huge performance delta between modern Nvidia GPUs and next gen consoles. The tech consoles offer should last a minimum of 6 years but I am not sure how this will pan out this time considering the obsolete tech.
winjer
Gold Member
That is incorrect. FSR4 uses a mix of CNN and Transformer models.
Transformer models are not better than hybrid models. Most of current image projects are moving to a hybrid models because better data efficiency and performance than using pure transformer or CNN. If we are talking about tech, Nvidia is using old tech vs new tech on AMD (hybrid). DLSS4 being better is probably because better training, experience and better computational power. Transformer is not the reason
Last edited:
nemiroff
Gold Member
That's simplifying partial truth into something that it not necessarily is.
Calling transformer "old tech" is like calling a jet engine "old" because it uses the same physics as a propeller.
The claim that "hybrids are newer/better" is true for static image generation (stable diffusion) where the goal is data efficiency. But for realtime graphics nvidias use of pure transformer in DLSS 4 is about solving a temporal stability ceiling that cnn hybrids struggle to break through.
Also, the hybrid "isn't necessary" for Nvidia because of the simple fact of tensor cores. FSR is platform agnostic and is dependent on compatibility and speed "without" tensor corse (AMD AI acceleration from what I understan is baked into the compute units thus not working as independently), and that's where CNN or a hybrid solution is a necessity.
Disclaimer: Not saying FSR is bad. That's not my point at all. And for that matter, in the future when specialized hardware is no longer needed to gain the upper hand, DLSS and FSR will combine into one shared standard.
Last edited:
Corporal.Hicks
Banned
It does look much worse. The image no longer resambles true 4K, and it blurs during motion. There's also noise in games that use real time GI (UE5 games). However, even Ultra Performance offers better image quality than UE5 games on the PS5, so I think some people may actually use DLSSUP. From a normal viewing distance, Ultra Performance will look good.
Last edited:
Wolzard
Member
Poorly done test. It assumes the M preset is for use in Performance mode, and even shows Nvidia's documentation.
He decides to test in Quality mode, for no apparent reason, thinking it would scale the same way in Performance mode.
And then he adds a pinned comment saying "oops, the performance scaling is actually different in Performance mode".
Wolzard
Member
Computerbase conducted some proper comparative tests, with an average of 8 games, using preset M compared to preset K.
RTX20/30: -12%
RTX40: -5%
RTX50: -4%
www.computerbase.de
RTX20/30: -12%
RTX40: -5%
RTX50: -4%
Nvidia DLSS 4.5 Super Resolution im Test: DLSS 4.5: GPU-Benchmarks und Ersteindruck
Nvidia DLSS 4.5 (SR) im Test: DLSS 4.5: GPU-Benchmarks und Ersteindruck / Die Performance von DLSS 4.5 in der Analyse / Erstes Fazit
Senua
Member
Lol wow, they had one job.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
nemiroff
Gold Member
What, even I wouldn't do that type of mistake. And this is his job...
Last edited:
Bojji
Gold Member
Download reshade with add on support
Reno mod for specific game: E33 for example
After installing reshade drop mod files into main game folder - where .exe is, reshade is installed here as well
In game you basically don't have to do anything, you can change mod settings (home button on keyboard) but default is already good:
Suggestions are (you can use whatever you want):
Quality, blanced, DLAA - preset K (4.0)
Performance - preset M (4.5)
Ultra Performance - preset L (4.5)
L is the heaviest so using it with higher pixel counts doesn't make sense.
Personally I would use preset M Performance for everything, it looks fucking great. But comparing to old DLSS3, even preset K performance is better than DLSS3 quality in many aspects and now preset M performance should be 100% better than DLSS3 quality setting.
Of course all depend on your GPU, I wouldn't suggest using 4.5 on Ampere and Turing, on those GPUs stick to Preset J/K (DLSS4) - best quality/performance ratio.
Preset M:
Last edited:
Bojji
Gold Member
Preset K Performance mode is still better than L Ultra Performance but differences are much smaller than with previous DLSS version. UP is now absolutely usable in 4k output (I wouldn't use it below that).
yamaci17
Member
1440p dlss performance and preset M would make sense for ampere GPUs above 3060 most likely
it looks somewhat better and you get the other improvements related to ghosting and such. if you were able to play with 1440p dlss quality and preset K, chances are you would still end up with higher performance with 1440p dlss performance and preset M
i can see differences when I zoom in and carefully look but it still looks decent
Last edited:
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I havent tried it for myself, but it would seem like I am better off with just sticking with Preset K for the time being on my 4090. I care most about getting framerates closest to my 240 Hz OLED refresh rate, so I already run many games at balanced and performance settings.
But then again, it's not like it cost monet to try it out.
But then again, it's not like it cost monet to try it out.
Bojji
Gold Member
Yes, in the end people need to experiment and choose what suits them the best.
In my opinion, more options are always good - but I can see why all this alphabet + numbers combo from nvidia may be confusing to many people, lol.
I like that they allow to use 4.5 on GPUs that don't natively support FP8. Unlike AMD that keeps int8 version of FSR4 hidden (officially)...
Last edited:
bbeach123
Member
3000s and below perf drop like crazy on preset M/L . DLSS 4.5 performance's FPS equivalent to preset K quality mode actually .
Some game its look fine , but some game that scaling effect like fog , lumen , lighting, reflection with resolution you will see the drop in quality on performance mode . Shimmering n shit .
Last edited:
Hybrids are newer indeed, Also i didn't say it's better, even CNN have advantages over other techs. But they are the future until someone get a new different tech. For realtime graphics precisely hybrids models have advantage mostly because they are computationally lighter and you don't require the huge dataset transformed model needs in training. So nope, the strength of hybrid models in the future are bigger than full pure transformer model, mostly for so small and light models such as DLSS, FSR, PSSR, etc where need super slow times for inference such as 1 to 3ms, despite you want to believe the Nvidia marketing.
Last edited:
GymWolf
Gold Member
I have a 4080 and only care for iq, if 4.5 quality\dlaa is the best iq you can have by a noticeable margin, that's where i'm gonna land.Download reshade with add on support
Reno mod for specific game: E33 for example
After installing reshade drop mod files into main game folder - where .exe is, reshade is installed here as well
In game you basically don't have to do anything, you can change mod settings (home button on keyboard) but default is already good:
Suggestions are (you can use whatever you want):
Quality, blanced, DLAA - preset K (4.0)
Performance - preset M (4.5)
Ultra Performance - preset L (4.5)
L is the heaviest so using it with higher pixel counts doesn't make sense.
Personally I would use preset M Performance for everything, it looks fucking great. But comparing to old DLSS3, even preset K performance is better than DLSS3 quality in many aspects and now preset M performance should be 100% better than DLSS3 quality setting.
Of course all depend on your GPU, I wouldn't suggest using 4.5 on Ampere and Turing, on those GPUs stick to Preset J/K (DLSS4) - best quality/performance ratio.
Preset M:
I can make an iq sacrifice if the improvement is like 5% while losing 20-30 frames, that's why i asked if balanced in the new model is as good as quality in the older models (at this point i consider 4.5 the new model and 3-4 the older models).
No game is gonna tank my gpu under 60 fps, i usually put shadows on medium and disable or lower rtx a lot so that gave me tons of frames to max out everything else.
Last edited:
nemiroff
Gold Member
On NV hardware with dense tensor core throughput, a hybrid architecture just isn't logical when transformers deliver far superior temporal stability and motion-aware reconstruction. DLSS doesn't use a hybrid because NV's hardware and long-term strategy are built around transformers. a hybrid would simply be slower, less stable, and less future-proof. FSr's design is reasonable for AMD's current constraint, but it shouldn't be framed as an "old tech vs new tech" thing.
That's part of it, but not the main reason why NV chose to "afford" transformer. It's what I mentioned above, and not only that, the execution and latency also plays an imporant part. In hybrid you're essentially forcing the gpu to juggle math workloads betwen cnn and transformer. It eats up the ms for no good reason (in NV's scenario)
Last edited:
Oh nice, I thought this was it in terms of performance. Still even at 1080p, DLSS4 Quality looked excellent, even if I played on a 27" 4k screen.
Bojji
Gold Member
4K output and DLSS to whatever value you want (to achieve good performance).
Games rarely have internal and output resolution options to select.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I erased that part because i though i was coming out too confrontational
