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[MisterXDTV]

I never said anything about Linux, now did I? PC isn't defined by any operating system. PC is an open slate that you can do anything you want with.

I mean a PC has to have an operating system on it to work, right???

How many OS are there? Windows and Linux

I'm really confused here, to be honest

Seems like you are trying to argue with me for no logical reason

 

[The Mad Draklor]

So only the OS with the most market share can be called "PC", right?

It is pretty ironic he shares the Steam hardware survey numbers show Linux is continuing to rise. The previous December 2025 results had it drop by 0.01 points, but has since been revised to actually have risen for the 3rd straight month.

 

[MisterXDTV]

It is pretty ironic he shares the Steam hardware survey numbers show Linux is continuing to rise. The previous December 2025 results had it drop by 0.01 points, but has since been revised to actually have risen for the 3rd straight month.

Amazing rise indeed when the ratio is still 94% to 3%

Just leave the NeoGaf bubble and check the real world for God's sake

Ask 100 people what "Bazzite" is, 98 won't even answer...

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Amazing rise indeed when the ratio is still 94% to 3%

Just leave the NeoGaf bubble and check the real world for God's sake

Ask 100 people what "Bazzite" is, 98 won't even answer...

Compared to how much it rose in 2023 and 2024, it's actually quite substantial.

But then again, I'm talking to someone who is only able to judge numbers in a vacuum...

 

[Baki]

In today's market conditions, making money selling hardware is practically impossible. Unless, of course, they set a market price based on the cost of components, but then no one will buy it (the price tag is unlikely to please). Typically, such hardware is sold at breakeven or negative at launch, to build a user base.

Minecraft, COD, Diablo—these brands are currently generating revenue for them, but as we can see from their financial reports, it's not helping them much, for a variety of reasons. So far, Activision - Blizzard's acquisition of has been more of a negative than a positive, and according to recent news, we may be saying goodbye to several more studios this year (possibly). So, again, it's unclear why this should suddenly turn into a profit if they can't do so now.
Elder Scrolls - Let's wait for the release, otherwise I have a feeling I'll have grandchildren before this game comes out.
3rd party publisher – again, there are so many publishers on the market, it's completely unclear why everyone should suddenly abandon other publishers and rush to Microsoft. To do that, they would have to offer better terms than others, which they don't yet have.

The entire pc hardware market is based on making profit from hardware. Microsoft is going to join them but at the expense of collapsing the Xbox user base by 90%.

Microsoft is the biggest 3rd party publisher in the world after buying the #1 for $69B.

 

[Topher]

I mean a PC has to have an operating system on it to work, right???

How many OS are there? Windows and Linux

I'm really confused here, to be honest

Seems like you are trying to argue with me for no logical reason

lol...even if that were the case, it takes two to tango and so it applies to you as well.

Obviously operating systems are needed, but none of them define PC. If that confuses you then I don't know what else to tell you. I say we drop it.

 

[MisterXDTV]

lol...even if that were the case, it takes two to tango and so it applies to you as well.

Obviously operating systems are needed, but none of them define PC. If that confuses you then I don't know what else to tell you. I say we drop it.

Seems to me like the only point of contention here is this:

"Would a device that were locked to Windows OS still be a PC?"

To me, it clearly would be, to you it wouldn't...

I don't see any other part where my opinion is different from yours

 

[Topher]

Seems to me like the only point of contention here is this:

"Would a device that were locked to Windows OS still be a PC?"

To me, it clearly would be, to you it wouldn't...

I don't see any other part where my opinion is different from yours

Then let's leave it there

 

[viveks86]

Then let's leave it there

 

[Topher]

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I've been working in retail and wholesale distribution for over 25 years. And all I can say is that no one will release a product to the market that can't make money. Especially large corporations; they have to report to shareholders for it. So far, everything I've seen and read doesn't really fit with the word "profit."

That is why i told people to stop dreaming about the machine being affordable; i am expecting the hardware to be sold at 30% profit. The hardware cant be subsidised.

 

[memoryman3]

That is why i told people to stop dreaming about the machine being affordable; i am expecting the hardware to be sold at 30% profit. The hardware cant be subsidised.

Only way I can see it being subsidised is if Microsoft lock you to a 24 month contract for Game Pass.

 

[Punished Miku]

Only way I can see it being subsidised is if Microsoft lock you to a 24 month contract for Game Pass.

Don't threaten me with a good time.

 

[Topher]

that's why they are putting their games EVERYWHERE to make up for the loss of 3rd party store money but also xcloud will grow rapidly. geforce is losing money for nvidia the same way stadia was losing money for google and we know how that ended up.

Where are you seeing that Geforce Now is losing money like Stadia did?

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Only way I can see it being subsidised is if Microsoft lock you to a 24 month contract for Game Pass.

And what could they do if you refuse to pay and dare them to take the gamepass away? You can't threaten to end the contract if the user never needed it. If this was a console they could brick your machine. But this is a PC... MS couldn't stop you from just NOT PAY.

MS has no leverage. They can't force the PC user to do ANYTHING. The only way to profit is from hardware cost alone. So, those who dream of subsidized hardware can keep sleeping. You will be lucky if Nexbox is anywhere near Apple prices.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Same here. IMO Microsoft has a chance to really do something special here but they cannot fuck it up. If it's a PC with target specs that guarantees a level of deep optimization for PC games to scale upwards for 5-8 years and I build itx so it's appealing to me in a very specific way.

God what I'd do be in the design room...

Why are you guys praying and hoping Microsoft are the ones who do this? If anything, Valve are much more likely to accomplish what you want to see, as they've been ahead of MS in the PC gaming space since 2004. And while people can scoff at rumored price leaks, Steam Machine is a product we know actually exists. It's tangible, we've seen it run, we've seen multiple people see it in person. We know what it's capable of doing.

Microsoft's effort is still mostly vaporware until it actually gets revealed, and if the first impression's as much as what ROG Ally was, then it's DOA.

Colloquially for like 2 decades PC Gaming has referred to Windows. Even the Linux machines today are running games designed and coded for.. you guessed it.. Windows.

Even in a greater context colloquially PC = Windows Machine. I think to techies it can mean something less specific but you are full of shit if you can't admit this is how "PC" has been used for decades by the majority of people.

If you say "I'll be installing Bazzite on my PC" people know you are referring to general Personal Computing.. language sometimes changes based on context, that's just how language and communication works.

All the better reason for Linux distros becoming genuine alternatives to the OS that built most of its market share off of anticompetitive & monopolistic market practices during the '80s and '90s

Amazing rise indeed when the ratio is still 94% to 3%

Just leave the NeoGaf bubble and check the real world for God's sake

Ask 100 people what "Bazzite" is, 98 won't even answer...

Windows is the McDonald's of OSes. Everyone might know of it, but it's also the lowest quality option if you actually have any taste (and are informed).

The entire pc hardware market is based on making profit from hardware. Microsoft is going to join them but at the expense of collapsing the Xbox user base by 90%.

Microsoft is the biggest 3rd party publisher in the world after buying the #1 for $69B.

They aren't the biggest 3P publisher, either. Even tho people are hyping it like the second coming of Jesus, GTA6 is going to demolish all sales of MS's collective output from the past five years, in its first year alone.

So AFAIK, Take Two are still the biggest 3P publisher. And arguably after them, Epic Games if you view Fortnite as a title they "publish" on other platforms, tho it's not a B2P game in the traditional sense.

Only way I can see it being subsidised is if Microsoft lock you to a 24 month contract for Game Pass.

That's something I was suggesting a while ago but it'd require significantly higher production volumes than what they're likely aiming for (even if the subsidy's only $100, if you're making 10 million units that's the BOM * 10 million units, still a lot of money being spent).

Also, the type of person Magnus is being aimed at probably already has a stacked Game Pass sub, so how would a 24-month contract work for them without refinancing the sub at a rate undoubtedly worst for the person who had the stacked sub prior?

 

[yogaflame]

This could be a $ 1200 dollar minimum. Anyway MS more like competing against Alienware and Steam Machine. To bad for MS pchybrid, Steam machine stole its thunder and it has more hype.

 

[ZehDon]

This could be a $ 1200 dollar minimum. Anyway MS more like competing against Alienware and Steam Machine. To bad for MS pchybrid, Steam machine stole its thunder and it has more hype.

Steam Machine has received a mixed response, whereas Microsoft's pc-hybrid hasn't been announced yet. I'm all for giving Microsoft a hard time, but let's at least pretend to be fair.

 

[Topher]

but let's at least pretend to be fair.

 

[kevboard]

This could be a $ 1200 dollar minimum. Anyway MS more like competing against Alienware and Steam Machine. To bad for MS pchybrid, Steam machine stole its thunder and it has more hype.

what are you talking about? the Steam Machine is absolutely DOA if the price is higher than 600€... and even that price is pushing it.

it won't even match Steam Deck sales, and the Steam Deck is a very niche product

 

[Mister Wolf]

Only way I can see it being subsidised is if Microsoft lock you to a 24 month contract for Game Pass.

I expect this from them.

 

[Baki]

Why are you guys praying and hoping Microsoft are the ones who do this? If anything, Valve are much more likely to accomplish what you want to see, as they've been ahead of MS in the PC gaming space since 2004. And while people can scoff at rumored price leaks, Steam Machine is a product we know actually exists. It's tangible, we've seen it run, we've seen multiple people see it in person. We know what it's capable of doing.

Microsoft's effort is still mostly vaporware until it actually gets revealed, and if the first impression's as much as what ROG Ally was, then it's DOA.



All the better reason for Linux distros becoming genuine alternatives to the OS that built most of its market share off of anticompetitive & monopolistic market practices during the '80s and '90s



Windows is the McDonald's of OSes. Everyone might know of it, but it's also the lowest quality option if you actually have any taste (and are informed).



They aren't the biggest 3P publisher, either. Even tho people are hyping it like the second coming of Jesus, GTA6 is going to demolish all sales of MS's collective output from the past five years, in its first year alone.

So AFAIK, Take Two are still the biggest 3P publisher. And arguably after them, Epic Games if you view Fortnite as a title they "publish" on other platforms, tho it's not a B2P game in the traditional sense.



That's something I was suggesting a while ago but it'd require significantly higher production volumes than what they're likely aiming for (even if the subsidy's only $100, if you're making 10 million units that's the BOM * 10 million units, still a lot of money being spent).

Also, the type of person Magnus is being aimed at probably already has a stacked Game Pass sub, so how would a 24-month contract work for them without refinancing the sub at a rate undoubtedly worst for the person who had the stacked sub prior?

Putting aside King mobile output. MS publishing is COD, Minecraft, WoW, Diablo, Overwatch, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Forza, Halo. T2 might take the crown for a year but over a 5 year period, it's likely MS publishing would remain #1.

Regarding the 24m GP idea. It's very clear they're semi-abandoning GP as their main focus. Without a platform GP just doesn't grow, GP subs are tied to Xbox HW purchases. It's clear GP doesn't have the growth ceiling they wanted. They're now going to be bet on game publishing and hope cloud works out for them. But they'll probably fuck that up too. It amazes me that Phil is still in his job.

 

[genesisblock]

Microsoft: How do we force copilot devices into the user home. Especially with all the push back.
Satya: Xbox with windows copilot. That's what! And the best part, they get to play GAMES!!

 

[adamsapple]

So we're all in agreement it's not 'just a pc'.

 

[Neo_game]

I don't see it being subsidized since it will run other store fronts like Steam thus its not going to compete with the PS6 as its going to be expensive as far as consoles go

I have zero clue on how expensive it could be but wouldn't shock me in the least if some of the OEM Xbox PCs are cheaper than the first party Xbox console

Seems they are, per K KeplerL2 above. I hope they bring something different to the table. What they have been doing hasn't worked.

I know lot of people do not like MLID but I also think most thing he says will end up true:

 

[emivita]

Something tells me the Next Xbox showcase will be the equivalent of Xbox One, except it will be "AI AI AI" instead of "TV TV TV".

 

[KeplerL2]

Not according to K KeplerL2 . Two different devices. One is console and the other will be OEM PCs. Only console will have BC. The question is then how restrictive the console is. HeisenbergFX4 maintains it will include other stores, but that doesn't make it a PC since you will not likely be able to install a different OS. That's the question I have about the PC though. Is it Windows only or can you install other OS.

Still lots of questions.

The Xbox PC will be like the ROG "Xbox" Ally. It has an Xbox front-end interface but at the end of the day it's just a PC, you can pirate games, use emulators, install Linux, etc.

Xbox console will be a lot more locked down, even if it's closer to Windows than before.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I know lot of people do not like MLID but I also think most thing he says will end up true:

even MLiD is calling it a console?

it sounds pretty nuts from what he says in this video

 

[Bernardougf]

Not according to K KeplerL2 . Two different devices. One is console and the other will be OEM PCs. Only console will have BC. The question is then how restrictive the console is. HeisenbergFX4 maintains it will include other stores, but that doesn't make it a PC since you will not likely be able to install a different OS. That's the question I have about the PC though. Is it Windows only or can you install other OS.

Still lots of questions.

I respect our insiders friends... but there is no way in hell MS is doing another traditional closed box console with the same restrictions a console has, it just dosent make any sense, no studio in their right minds will support a DOA console, they probably are calling it a console because it has BC and can (maybe???) Use past xbox disks and thats it ... its the Xbox PC with BC in a nice closed box set.

Its going to be an old gen console tapped together with a next gen PC ... and called a console because of semantics.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

even MLiD is calling it a console?

it sounds pretty nuts from what he says in this video

They HAVE to call it a console. The entire backwards compatibility plan requires that they call it a console even if it kills them. The legal requirement to do so is the only thing that keeps the BC chip legal.

 

[MisterXDTV]

They HAVE to call it a console. The entire backwards compatibility plan requires that they call it a console even if it kills them. The legal requirement to do so is the only thing that keeps the BC chip legal.

Yup

Like I said, it's a semantic trick but in the end, it's a gaming device that will run PC games just like any other PC

Doesn't matter how hard they try to spin it

 

[bitbydeath]

They HAVE to call it a console. The entire backwards compatibility plan requires that they call it a console even if it kills them. The legal requirement to do so is the only thing that keeps the BC chip legal.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I know lot of people do not like MLID but I also think most thing he says will end up true:

Honestly the tech stuff is over my pay grade but yeah, its a console

 

[Jibran#one]

Even though it's a PC but I fully believe Microsoft will even fuck that up with some proprietary storage or some other bullshit

 

[Ratty]

My guess, pessimistic as it might be, is that the next XBOX would be sold at a much higher price tag compared to a performance wise equivalent pre-built PC.

MS CFO has already set a 30% profit margin target on the XBOX division. And we know that MS invested big on AI but the financial return so far is quite disappointing at best; that's one of the major reasons why they are orchestrating major layoffs almost yearly -> they would very much like to cut operational costs to cover up the AI expenses and make the quarterly earnings look better. MSFT stock prices made Satya; it can break him as well. Given these circumstances I doubt the XBOX division would have much leeway when setting the MSRP; it cannot be sold at a loss, there must be some really solid profit per unit to make things work. In addition, XBOX is not a walled garden any more, which means MS can no longer take a cut from the software sales to cover hardware costs. That's one more reason for MS to keep the price tag high.

Normally manufacturers like MS would be able to cut a better deal with suppliers by making volume purchases over multiple years. which can significantly reduce the production cost. But the demand for XBOX is already at an all time low and the next XBOX is positioned as a premium device, which would make the target audience even more limited. I do not know many die-hard XBOX fans any more. This would put MS' supply chain negotiators at a very difficult position; suppliers like AMD would be very reluctant to give a deep discount to MS for a console/PC with a sales estimate of several millions at best. Steam faces the same challenges, but they are up and rising, whereas XBOX is going downhills. I know that they have cut a deal with AMD, but the more I think of it the more I am inclined to believe that it's going to be a deal of buying a bunch of COTS chips from AMD with some surface-level customization (once again, like what Valve is doing right now). So, yeah, the costs would very likely be almost consistent with a similarly configured pre-built PC on the public market. We also need to factor in the BC chips, which would push the costs even higher.

XBOX (the hardware part) is just going to become another Surface lineup. MS is basically just trying to squeeze the very last bit out of their most loyal fanbase's wallet, selling lackluster builds at a premium using a nice design and a set of bonus features that means little yet seems difficult not to have as justification. If Surface as a brand can survive, then XBOX hardware can as well; but it's not going to live up to its former glorious self any more.

 

[Three]

My guess, pessimistic as it might be, is that the next XBOX would be sold at a much higher price tag compared to a performance wise equivalent pre-built PC.

MS CFO has already set a 30% profit margin target on the XBOX division. And we know that MS invested big on AI but the financial return so far is quite disappointing at best;

I don't think this would be the case. At worst I believe it would be the same price, realistically a little cheaper. The profit targets for xbox studios would be to improve their ability to subsidise/make lower profits on the hardware.

 

[memoryman3]

The Xbox PC will be like the ROG "Xbox" Ally. It has an Xbox front-end interface but at the end of the day it's just a PC, you can pirate games, use emulators, install Linux, etc.

Xbox console will be a lot more locked down, even if it's closer to Windows than before.

Certain programs like Retroarch are on Steam, and a few games require user File Explorer access for full functionality.

They HAVE to call it a console. The entire backwards compatibility plan requires that they call it a console even if it kills them. The legal requirement to do so is the only thing that keeps the BC chip legal.

People keep saying this, but everything indicates that the legal problems stem from selling unique Windows SKUs.

Xbox 360 games were also modified to technically be new SKUs on the Xbox One store. The BC games would be the untouched Xbox games virtualised for Windows. We don't know the terms Xbox set for future games, but I'm sure it covers Xbox "devices" outside consoles. Otherwise, some developer could easily argue that this Xbox running Adobe Suite makes it a PC.

 

[lmimmfn]

Finally i can do PowerPoint slides on my "console"

 

[Topher]

They HAVE to call it a console. The entire backwards compatibility plan requires that they call it a console even if it kills them. The legal requirement to do so is the only thing that keeps the BC chip legal.

If it is locked down where only Microsoft determines what can run on it, then it is a console. That's more than simply meeting some legal requirement.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

 

[Topher]

I know lot of people do not like MLID but I also think most thing he says will end up true:

Eh....higher specs are not going to move the needle for Xbox. Maybe allowing Steam games will, but as they said in the video, it just means they have to make money on the hardware and that is going to make it expensive.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Just a friendly reminder that real consoles always have software SPECIFICALLY made for it. You need a dedicated version of games for a Switch 2, a PS5 or even the current Xbox Series.....

Simply running PC/Windows games on a small plastic box doesn't make it a console

Just like the Steam Machine won't be

It will be one of the 2500 possibile hardware configurations that already run PC games today

 

[Topher]

I respect our insiders friends... but there is no way in hell MS is doing another traditional closed box console with the same restrictions a console has, it just dosent make any sense, no studio in their right minds will support a DOA console, they probably are calling it a console because it has BC and can (maybe???) Use past xbox disks and thats it ... its the Xbox PC with BC in a nice closed box set.

Its going to be an old gen console tapped together with a next gen PC ... and called a console because of semantics.

Well it doesn't have the same restrictions since it will apparently include other stores, but outside of that, both our local guys and MLID are all singing the same tune on this. It is a console. I get what you are saying though. It really doesn't make a lot of sense. It is like Microsoft is making some last ditch effort at gaming hardware.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Just a friendly reminder that real consoles always have software SPECIFICALLY made for it. You need a dedicated version of games for a Switch 2, a PS5 or even the current Xbox Series.....

Simply running PC/Windows games on a small plastic box doesn't make it a console

Just like the Steam Machine won't be

It will be one of the 2500 possibile hardware configurations that already run PC games today

And the Magnus Console will have GDKX created and fixed spec optimized games.

The people in this thread calling it a PC haven't really put much though into what they say. PC games are designed to scale to dozens, if not hundreds of configurations.

If the device were to simply run the Xbox PC SKUs for the Xbox ecosystem, then they wouldn't have a need for fixed spec hardware. They could release hardware at various levels of power and price points.

So 24 CU, 48 CU, 72 CU, 96 CU, $400, $800, $1200, $1600 price points.

Play Anywhere wouldn't be needed and every game would be automatically Play Anywhere, if the device was simply running PC SKUs meant to scale hardware.

 

[GoldenEye98]

And the Magnus Console will have GDKX created and fixed spec optimized games.

The people in this thread calling it a PC haven't really put much though into what they say. PC games are designed to scale to dozens, if not hundreds of configurations.

If the device were to simply run the Xbox PC SKUs for the Xbox ecosystem, then they wouldn't have a need for fixed spec hardware. They could release hardware at various levels of power and price points.

So 24 CU, 48 CU, 72 CU, 96 CU, $400, $800, $1200, $1600 price points.

Play Anywhere wouldn't be needed and every game would be automatically Play Anywhere, if the device was simply running PC SKUs meant to scale hardware.

The word 'curated' from Microsoft makes it sound like it will be select titles that will developed specifically for the hardware though. My guess is 1st party and other select big 3rd party games that they would want to have run well. Otherwise it will be PC version available.

I mean in theory this could be a very nice "do everything" device...

 

[videogamedude]

if Microsoft were smart, they'd simply rebrand directX as Xbox, and stop shipping it with every copy of windows

 

[viveks86]

So we're all in agreement it's not 'just a pc'.

All = 8 of us

 

[Topher]

So we're all in agreement it's not 'just a pc'.

Best we can say is that it is more PC-like with the multiple stores, but it is still a locked down console. Some people tend to be extremely polar with this shit and that really doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I respect our insiders friends... but there is no way in hell MS is doing another traditional closed box console with the same restrictions a console has, it just dosent make any sense, no studio in their right minds will support a DOA console, they probably are calling it a console because it has BC and can (maybe???) Use past xbox disks and thats it ... its the Xbox PC with BC in a nice closed box set.

Its going to be an old gen console tapped together with a next gen PC ... and called a console because of semantics.

They HAVE to call it a console. The entire backwards compatibility plan requires that they call it a console even if it kills them. The legal requirement to do so is the only thing that keeps the BC chip legal.

Yup

Like I said, it's a semantic trick but in the end, it's a gaming device that will run PC games just like any other PC

Doesn't matter how hard they try to spin it

Yeah, I think so too. I also think of I can't buy this thing and format it and install what I want it sure as shit isn't a pc. It's some Frankenstein thing.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Best we can say is that it is more PC-like with the multiple stores, but it is still a locked down console.