JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
That's cute. You believe Microsoft.
Did you also believe them when they said only 4 games. Or that Redfall was great?
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[Windows Central] Next-Gen Xbox Will Reportedly Run Full Windows, Feature a Console-First Windows 11 UI, and Support Full Backward Compatibility
Did you also believe them when they said only 4 games. Or that Redfall was great?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
On thnat we agree. Xbox had MANY issues, but console design was NOT one of them.
Except for a lack of an ungradeable internal NVME drive. That was a blunder.
Topher
Identifies as young
Not according to K KeplerL2 . Two different devices. One is console and the other will be OEM PCs. Only console will have BC. The question is then how restrictive the console is.
HeisenbergFX4
maintains it will include other stores, but that doesn't make it a PC since you will not likely be able to install a different OS. That's the question I have about the PC though. Is it Windows only or can you install other OS. Still lots of questions.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Yup, proprietary storage was an absolutely terrible idea.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If it's not an open platform like a PC, there will be legal battles when it comes to licensing with third parties. But something tells me that they want this to be a Trojan Horse to muddy the waters in preparation for that. Especially with the "no walled gardens" chummy PR they're seeding with new friend Sweeney.Not according to K KeplerL2 . Two different devices. One is console and the other will be OEM PCs. Only console will have BC. The question is then how restrictive the console is.
Still lots of questions.
Oh, I remember the days of the shill defense over those stupid overpriced drives. Some of the most classic and cringe PR slop on here.
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MisterXDTV
Member
Not according to K KeplerL2 . Two different devices. One is console and the other will be OEM PCs. Only console will have BC. The question is then how restrictive the console is.
Still lots of questions.
A console that runs Windows 11 and PC software from any store (AKA Steam), is not a console anymore
Semantics won't change that
Topher
Identifies as young
Agreed. So more than likely it isn't running Windows 11 if they are calling it a console. That is, assuming they are not trying some subversive shenigans like what
DeepEnigma
is talking about.
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MisterXDTV
Member
Agreed. So more than likely it isn't running Windows 11 if they are calling it a console. That is, assuming they are not trying some subversive shenigans like what
Steam support = Windows OS
There's no way around it....
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
This Xbox Magnus situation has too many similarities to when SEGA had Project Katana and Project Blackbelt in codevelopment.
We know how that played out but what's oft-not said, is that had SEGA just decided on one spec to R&D from the get-go they probably could've had more money to pump into that spec's R&D, avoid the lawsuit settlement payment with 3Dfx, and had addressed some of Dreamcast's shortcomings earlier on ahead of release.
Basically, an even more focused & unified vision for Dreamcast. But since SEGA split R&D manpower and resources, that had some negative effects on what eventually did come out. Microsoft are running a similar risk here and since they seem to intend both device types to release in tandem, they'll incur even more problems long-running than SEGA ever had with Dreamcast in the market.
But that's just my take, given the messaging and somewhat chaotic nature of how MS are proceeding with their next-gen hardware developments ATM.
The pricing on these things is going to be funny to see. MS can't price their option too low or else OEMs will balk since they're getting massively undercut and can't take a loss on their hardware. At the same time MS can't price theirs too high because they will likely have a more locked-down box, and BC isn't going to add the value proposition required for MS's box to compete at a similar pricing bracket to OEMs.
There's going to be a good deal of self-cannibalization going on here. They really should just pick one path or the other. Sometimes more options actually isn't a good thing.
We know how that played out but what's oft-not said, is that had SEGA just decided on one spec to R&D from the get-go they probably could've had more money to pump into that spec's R&D, avoid the lawsuit settlement payment with 3Dfx, and had addressed some of Dreamcast's shortcomings earlier on ahead of release.
Basically, an even more focused & unified vision for Dreamcast. But since SEGA split R&D manpower and resources, that had some negative effects on what eventually did come out. Microsoft are running a similar risk here and since they seem to intend both device types to release in tandem, they'll incur even more problems long-running than SEGA ever had with Dreamcast in the market.
But that's just my take, given the messaging and somewhat chaotic nature of how MS are proceeding with their next-gen hardware developments ATM.
The pricing on these things is going to be funny to see. MS can't price their option too low or else OEMs will balk since they're getting massively undercut and can't take a loss on their hardware. At the same time MS can't price theirs too high because they will likely have a more locked-down box, and BC isn't going to add the value proposition required for MS's box to compete at a similar pricing bracket to OEMs.
There's going to be a good deal of self-cannibalization going on here. They really should just pick one path or the other. Sometimes more options actually isn't a good thing.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Its a Hail Mary that was born from years of getting destroyed by PS at the register
SEGAvangelist
Member
If this thing comes out at 2x the power of the Steam Machine, runs the entire Xbox library, other stores (Steam, Epic, etc...), and comes in around $1200 or so, I'm getting it day one. An Xbox Steam Machine + Switch 2 + FPGA combo pretty much plays everything I care about. Like who is really gonna miss the next Naughty Dog/Sony Santa Monica/Sucker Punch slop?
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mayham2199
Member
I assume they are still going through with it because they are just so far along now? Hard for me to imagine anyone still believes there's some hope of beating PS at this point.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I think they're hoping everyone just develops for PC hardware eventually and Sony hardware becomes just another device to run multiple stores. Nintendo not included, of course.
Topher
Identifies as young
Why not? Xbox runs on Windows. Steam runs on Windows. The only thing different about Xbox version of Windows is it is closed and only Microsoft decides what can and cannot run on it. So if they decide Steam can run on their console then what is stopping them?
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
So pretty soon Playstation will be a better Xbox, and Xbox will be a better Steam Frame.
MisterXDTV
Member
Xbox doesn't run real Windows and it only runs UWP code/software, not PC/Windows software
That's why it's locked to the Xbox Store alone
Otherwise you could run PC games on a Xbox even today..... Guess what? You can't
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Puscifer
Member
Same here. IMO Microsoft has a chance to really do something special here but they cannot fuck it up. If it's a PC with target specs that guarantees a level of deep optimization for PC games to scale upwards for 5-8 years and I build itx so it's appealing to me in a very specific way.Not according to K KeplerL2 . Two different devices. One is console and the other will be OEM PCs. Only console will have BC. The question is then how restrictive the console is.
Still lots of questions.
God what I'd do be in the design room...
Mister Wolf
Member
Those Sony games will come to PC.
Topher
Identifies as young
Guess what? Microsoft can. That's how closed systems work. Only approved apps can run. That's not up to you or me. That's up to Microsoft.
MisterXDTV
Member
No they can't once the system is not closed anymore....
You can't run full Windows and then deny the .exe files you don't like
I don't know why you think this absurd thing exist....
The system can be locked on the hardware side, but not on the software side when they promised to run every other store imaginable, Steam/EPIC/GoG are not owned by Microsoft and they can't control them....
SEGAvangelist
Member
Eventually, yeah. That's my point overall.
Topher
Identifies as young
I wasn't talking about preventing apps from running on full/open Windows and you know it. We were talking about what apps Microsoft could allow to run on Xbox.
MisterXDTV
Member
Who cares?
Once it runs game stores like Steam and all the others, it's literally a gaming PC....
Because nobody is going to make games for it, it will run PC games just like any other PC on the planet
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Topher
Identifies as young
For it to be a PC then we would have full control including being able to install a different OS. Adding third party stores to a closed system doesn't change that.
Mayar
Member
I'm not really sure where this information about the Xbox PC and an "open" operating system comes from. Because, even from a legal and financial perspective, I don't understand how it could be implemented. If there are other software and stores besides Microsoft, how will it even work? Will Microsoft pay royalties on sales in these stores to the platform owners? Microsoft is in no position to engage in such charity, and even with other stores, who will use Microsoft services? The whole point of corporate products is a closed ecosystem of their own products. There are far more questions than answers here, and it seems to me that too much is being added to the rumors right now. Microsoft's profit margins on console sales aren't great as is, so releasing a product and then charging other companies royalties on top of that is a completely strange financial decision. They are certainly rich, but something tells me that the shareholders will not be happy about this; they even had to raise the price of the Game Pass. And how are they supposed to make money from all this?
I think this is pure fan сopium.
I think this is pure fan сopium.
Topher
Identifies as young
It isn't fan copium. K KeplerL2 and
HeisenbergFX4
are our primary sources of info. But even they have questioned how Microsoft will make money in these scenarios. That's the biggest question and it is a bit of a head scratcher. Really don't see the point in a console that has other stores available unless they are going to charge a hell of a lot of money and stuff the thing full of ads. And who the hell wants that?MisterXDTV
Member
That doesn't make any sense. In the gaming space Windows is like 95% of the user share of Steam....
Nobody buys a Microsoft product to install Linux....
I never installed Linux on a PC in my entire life, so it's a completely moot point
In the real world PC = Windows
A Windows-locked system is still a PC
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Mayar
Member
I respect - K KeplerL2 ,It isn't fan copium. K KeplerL2 and
HeisenbergFX4
. And I'm always happy to read information from them. But in this world, there are only three people I trust implicitly: my father, my mother, and my wife. All others are automatically labeled as suspicious sources of information until the facts are officially confirmed. 
I've been working in retail and wholesale distribution for over 25 years. And all I can say is that no one will release a product to the market that can't make money. Especially large corporations; they have to report to shareholders for it. So far, everything I've seen and read doesn't really fit with the word "profit."
cinnamonandgravy
Member
can actually see it working if they successfully consolize windows and pc upgrades--i.e. make it retardedly easy.
new gpu for your xbox?
old one pops out like a big lego brick; new one goes in the same the way. no wires or anything. just clicks in.
windows updates drivers and everything else automatically.
even lots of PC boys here dont want to build PCs.
new gpu for your xbox?
old one pops out like a big lego brick; new one goes in the same the way. no wires or anything. just clicks in.
windows updates drivers and everything else automatically.
even lots of PC boys here dont want to build PCs.
Topher
Identifies as young
bitbydeath
Member
I'm not sure why K KeplerL2 insists on it being a console, but I believe he's previously stated (and it might just be a guess) that old Xbox games would run via a VM.Agreed. So more than likely it isn't running Windows 11 if they are calling it a console. That is, assuming they are not trying some subversive shenigans like what
Meaning, it is full Windows still and nothing of Xbox OS will be present.
K KeplerL2 , correct me if I got anything wrong.
Edit: VM = Virtual Machine
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simpatico
Gold Member
The console that wins next gen will be the $200 AM4 e-waste APU Amazon Basics Steam Machine. None of the big three have any defense for that. More than enough to run the Backrooms, QWOP, Rage Climber of the Month.
Zero subscription fees. Spread like wildfire on TikTok shop, costs 1/5 the PS6 and actually has the QWOPlikes the kids want to play. Plus it'll also run all PC indie new releases, Counter Strike, MOBAs, TF2, etc.
Zero subscription fees. Spread like wildfire on TikTok shop, costs 1/5 the PS6 and actually has the QWOPlikes the kids want to play. Plus it'll also run all PC indie new releases, Counter Strike, MOBAs, TF2, etc.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Hmm, I haven't heard that if true. That changes a lot.
I respect - K KeplerL2 ,
I've been working in retail and wholesale distribution for over 25 years. And all I can say is that no one will release a product to the market that can't make money. Especially large corporations; they have to report to shareholders for it. So far, everything I've seen and read doesn't really fit with the word "profit."
Yeah, that's pretty much why everyone is confused about what MS is trying to do here, if the reports/rumors are true.
Mayar
Member
Baki
Member
Even $800 would be a niche device. The reality is that the market for high-end gaming hardware beyond $600 is remarkably small.
They are not going to subsidise.
They will make money on this. Even if they only sell 1M Xbox PCs, with a margin $100-300 a box, that's $100-300M of profit just on the box. Their main money will come from selling Minecraft, COD, Diablo, the next Elder Scrolls as a 3rd party publisher.I respect - K KeplerL2 ,
I've been working in retail and wholesale distribution for over 25 years. And all I can say is that no one will release a product to the market that can't make money. Especially large corporations; they have to report to shareholders for it. So far, everything I've seen and read doesn't really fit with the word "profit."
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Mayar
Member
In today's market conditions, making money selling hardware is practically impossible. Unless, of course, they set a market price based on the cost of components, but then no one will buy it (the price tag is unlikely to please). Typically, such hardware is sold at breakeven or negative at launch, to build a user base.
Minecraft, COD, Diablo—these brands are currently generating revenue for them, but as we can see from their financial reports, it's not helping them much, for a variety of reasons. So far, Activision - Blizzard's acquisition of has been more of a negative than a positive, and according to recent news, we may be saying goodbye to several more studios this year (possibly). So, again, it's unclear why this should suddenly turn into a profit if they can't do so now.
Elder Scrolls - Let's wait for the release, otherwise I have a feeling I'll have grandchildren before this game comes out.
3rd party publisher – again, there are so many publishers on the market, it's completely unclear why everyone should suddenly abandon other publishers and rush to Microsoft. To do that, they would have to offer better terms than others, which they don't yet have.
MisterXDTV
Member
diffusionx
Gold Member
if it is 2x the power of Steam Machine it will be (at least) 2x the cost
Topher
Identifies as young
SEGAvangelist
Member
Probably not.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
If I can buy this thing, take it home and format it and install windows 11 pro or Linux...it's a fuggin pc and no one can tell me different
If you can't then it sure as shit ain't a pc.
If you can't then it sure as shit ain't a pc.
MisterXDTV
Member
So only the OS with the most market share can be called "PC", right?
I never said "only"
I said for 95 people out of 100 it's an equation
Windows = PC = Windows
So your definition of PC = "you can install Linux on it", is basically irrelevant because most people wouldn't even think about installing Linux
Even assuming they knew they could
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Colloquially for like 2 decades PC Gaming has referred to Windows. Even the Linux machines today are running games designed and coded for.. you guessed it.. Windows.
Even in a greater context colloquially PC = Windows Machine. I think to techies it can mean something less specific but you are full of shit if you can't admit this is how "PC" has been used for decades by the majority of people.
If you say "I'll be installing Bazzite on my PC" people know you are referring to general Personal Computing.. language sometimes changes based on context, that's just how language and communication works.
Even in a greater context colloquially PC = Windows Machine. I think to techies it can mean something less specific but you are full of shit if you can't admit this is how "PC" has been used for decades by the majority of people.
If you say "I'll be installing Bazzite on my PC" people know you are referring to general Personal Computing.. language sometimes changes based on context, that's just how language and communication works.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It could do everything you want but are you willing to pay?
I'm team $1300 and IMO north of 1K is Xbox official exit from the console race.
Topher
Identifies as young
I never said anything about Linux, now did I? PC isn't defined by any operating system. PC is an open slate that you can do anything you want with.
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