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[Instant_Classic]

You mean that things improve over time. Still doesn't mean that it wasn't fine for the time. It was the only and best solution until the improvements were invented/standardized. I played hundreds of hours of Quake III and it just worked.

Yes, it was fine for the time.

It was up to Sega to basically plan ahead on where gaming could be headed and plan the controller layout accordingly.

They were the only one of the four console manufacturers that gen that stuck to a single joystick, layout.

 

[cireza]

Yes, it was fine for the time.

It was up to Sega to basically plan ahead on where gaming could be headed and plan the controller layout accordingly.

They were the only one of the four console manufacturers that gen that stuck to a single joystick, layout.

Yes, the first manufacturer to release its console because the second stick was hardly justified in 1998. They planned for a fine controller with a great stick, analog triggers, and a button layout that allowed for FPS to be playable in good condition, and that inherited from the Saturn 3D controller.

So yes, as you said, the controller was perfectly fine.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I like that the premise of the thread is "let's ignore the PS2", so most people just resort to explain how Sega was doomed by the PS1.

But dual analogue! Yeah, which was practically exclusive to PlayStation at the time, and far from a standard yet. I mean, it's almost like the DC got a good bunch of PS1 ports, and somehow managed to run them without the need for a second stick OR a Select button.
But the RPGs and Square! Which took off in the west thanks to the PS1.
But death from a thousand cuts! Yeah, from the PS1.

Twist it any way you like, you can't contextualize the DC's devastating failure without PlayStation in the picture somewhere.

 

[Instant_Classic]

I like that the premise of the thread is "let's ignore the PS2", so most people just resort to explain how Sega was doomed by the PS1.

But dual analogue! Yeah, which was practically exclusive to PlayStation at the time, and far from a standard yet. I mean, it's almost like the DC got a good bunch of PS1 ports, and somehow managed to run them without the need for a second stick OR a Select button.
But the RPGs and Square! Which took off in the west thanks to the PS1.
But death from a thousand cuts! Yeah, from the PS1.

Twist it any way you like, you can't contextualize the DC's devastating failure without PlayStation in the picture somewhere.

Actually, Sega's downfall was happening with or without Sony due to the many bad decisions made in the years prior.

Loss of consumer confidence being a big one.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

dont think dual stick was that important
quake3 felt crappy to play on the DC controller, but dual stick also felt crappy on ps1

if the DC lived longer, they couldve made a dual stick controller
sega released a revised controller with the genesis (6 button) and saturn (3d) so the idea wasnt new to them.
not ideal, but whatever.

without the playstation, sega wouldve had a shot.
ignore the ps2, think about if there was no ps1.
saturn wouldve had more market share, more games... sega wouldve made way more money.
they mightve been able to afford a post-gamecube console.

 

[Instant_Classic]

dont think dual stick was that important
quake3 felt crappy to play on the DC controller, but dual stick also felt crappy on ps1

if the DC lived longer, they couldve made a dual stick controller
sega released a revised controller with the genesis (6 button) and saturn (3d) so the idea wasnt new to them.
not ideal, but whatever.

without the playstation, sega wouldve had a shot.
ignore the ps2, think about if there was no ps1.
saturn wouldve had more market share, more games... sega wouldve made way more money.
they mightve been able to afford a post-gamecube console.

Honestly, if Sony never entered gaming probably would be a lot smaller.

PlayStation basically took gaming from being considered a hobby for kids, to something that people of all ages played.

Obviously, gaming was never for kids only but the general perception of it amongst the casual changed with PlayStation.

 

[Alexios]

Honestly, if Sony never entered gaming probably would be a lot smaller.

Or without Sony showing how massively successful consoles could be other companies would have given up so we'd end up with systems taking the Switch approach earlier on/from more companies since portables had already proven themselves (to the point Sony also tried them despite PS2)

 

[Instant_Classic]

I'm hoping people don't mistaken this thread as "Dreamcast sux" one.

It's one of my fav consoles ever.

 

[Instant_Classic]

Or without Sony showing how massively successful consoles could be other companies would have given up so we'd end up with systems taking the Switch approach earlier on/from more companies since portables had already proven themselves (to the point Sony also tried them despite PS2)

I don't think other companies would have necessarily given up.

With the eventual evolution of 3D gaming coming to, other companies would have likely given it (gaming industry) a shot.

For all we know, Xbox still could have became a thing without PlayStation being a factor as to why.

 

[Badlucktroll]

dreamcast was very very wonderful

 

[Instant_Classic]

dreamcast was very very wonderful

For sure

 

[Wolzard]

PSP and 3DS survived the advent of 3D games with only one analog stick without much trouble.
Changing controllers during a generation is not uncommon. The PS3 had a controller without vibration and then one with that feature. It had PS Move, EyeToy, etc. The PS1 had numerous analog controls.
Nintendo, then, has a lot of different controllers.

Regarding storage capacity, well, most PS2 games were extremely large for what was actually needed. The console didn't have the capacity to compress textures, so a lot of things had to be duplicated. An example that comes to mind is GTA Double Pack for Xbox, which was 1.5 GB (with 2 games) and on the PS2 it was 4.5 GB per game.
Or the GameCube games, also under 1 GB, and graphically better than the PS2.

Dreamcast had one of the best texture compression hardware capabilities, perhaps only surpassed by the GameCube. A typical 2 MB texture could be compressed to 256 KB or less. On the PS2, due to a lack of dedicated hardware, this was more limiting, requiring the use of CPU cycles. Therefore, developers opted not to compress textures.

 

[Crayon]

I love trolling dreamcast fans! I'll be back later when I have time to get drunk.

 

[cartman414]

The Mega CD, 32X and Saturn killed the Dreamcast. Having no EA games was a shocker too, when people had started buying the yearly Fifa/Madden. The controller had a tamogotchi in it and looked like a mess in shop demos when they took it out - how could they go with a worse design PS1 and N64?

It was DOA.

I get the nostalgia for it on here - I had an Amiga CD32 and loved that thing - but it was a terrible idea and put the final nail in the coffin for Sega hardware.

Sega's overall expenditures and Osborning of the Saturn had a bit more to do with killing their momentum.

 

[Durin]

Eh, I agree not launching with a dual analog controller was a mistake, but I remember they were some plans to produce one, which worked well.

GD-Rom wasn't an issue, given the Gamecube was able to make due fine enough without DVDs. Really DVDs were just great for FMVs, and adding value through playing movies in your living room.

It failed because they couldn't get enough games that sold the system, Sega's general financial/business issues, and the other consoles that came out had far greater support for titles. Even Microsoft just had more cash to push games on to their platform + Halo.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

DC would had done great IMO.

With no PS2 coming out, EA and all the Japanese studios who shunned DC would make their hit games on it.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

The lack of EA Sports was always going to kill my favorite console.

EA's condition for supporting the Dreamcast was that Sega kill off Visual Concepts. I don't know about you, but I can't bear the idea of living in a world without 2K Sports.

That said, yeah, the lack of EA support was a massive red flag to most gamers in the year 2000. "This is only a placeholder console" was the underlying message, and once PlayStation 2 hype began in full force (there's a topic that will make Sega fans grouchy), it was all over for our beloved Dreamcast.

"Once again, this reporter places the blame on you, the viewer." - Kent Brockman

 

[Mengy]

Regardless of why the DC died, it is still my favorite console to this day, and thankfully my launch day DC still works just fine!

 

[SportsFan581]

If PS2 had launched alongside GC/Xbox a year later, they would have been fine. Probably not lighting the world on fire, but the vacuum between DC launch and the rest of next-gen would have given them the sales they needed to soldier on. They thought they could get by with 20m sold.

They had a strong slate of software on the horizon as well, which they wouldn't have sold to Xbox if the DC were still alive.

 

[Instant_Classic]

If PS2 had launched alongside GC/Xbox a year later, they would have been fine. Probably not lighting the world on fire, but the vacuum between DC launch and the rest of next-gen would have given them the sales they needed to soldier on. They thought they could get by with 20m sold.

They had a strong slate of software on the horizon as well, which they wouldn't have sold to Xbox if the DC were still alive.

True, however Sega seemed slow to adjust to the change of arcade games being phased out in favor of longer console experiences.

They needed a killer app, one that got the approval of the mainstream audiences.

We are talking GTA 3 level, it did not have this but it did have of good games for its relatively short life.

 

[Instant_Classic]

Regardless of why the DC died, it is still my favorite console to this day, and thankfully my launch day DC still works just fine!

Thing was built to last.

 

[Alexios]

True, however Sega seemed slow to adjust to the change of arcade games being phased out in favor of longer console experiences.

That's just silly, it seems like you're pitting just one company's output vs every third party (since it's not like Sony made that much itself). The lack of more games was the lack of 3rd party support (due to sales) and more so the lack of localizations (due to sales), otherwise Sega did plenty longform games from very early on. On the Saturn alone there's Deep Fear, Burning Rangers, three Shining Force (III) games, Shining the Holy Ark, two Dragon Force games, The Legend of Oasis, two Sakura Wars games, Panzer Dragoon Saga and more (and actually too many third party stuff to start listing to be honest, but again, many never localized, due to sales), as well as games that bridged the gap from arcade to home style like Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS (having a story and such despite arcadey gameplay). They continued the same approach on Dreamcast with Shenmue (which started life as a Saturn project of course so even with that they were pioneering in the cinematic approach early on), Headhunter, Skies of Arcadia, Hundred Swords, three Aero Dancing/Wings, two Sonic Adventures, Jet Set Radio, Phantasy Star Online, two more Sakura Wars and so on. And of course their sports games on both systems, you can call them arcade style but sports built empires on home consoles like EA's and they did very well with their own output quality wise (I don't mean the arcade sports stuff like Virtua Striker since it's not what you're discussing). Of course it didn't work out but that's like going to someone and asking to just make a video go viral, lol, it's not for lack of trying and it's not just quality that dictated sales/success, especially when making games for platforms the writing was soon on the wall for their future thanks to external as well as internal factors and just falling back to success discussion adds nothing, we know they didn't achieve it, this thread exists because they didn't. They had more in the pipeline that ended up on Xbox and elsewhere. Their later longform stuff as a 3rd party build on what they made before, from Yakuza to Valkyria Chronicles or whatever else. Some of these like Phantasy Star and Shining Force (and others that didn't get to continue on as much as them like Golden Axe Warrior) were done even before Saturn and even before the Genesis so, nah, it's not true at all that they were slow to start making non arcade style games.​