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[Windows Central] EXCLUSIVE: New details on Xbox's next-gen console(s) — and Microsoft's most ambitious gaming plans ever

"OEM consoles by manufacturers like ASUS. First Party Xbox serves as baseline, could see more higher end premium consoles from OEMs as well as cheaper slimmed down versions from a variety of companies"

That sounds like a headache for devs to optimize their games, but whatever, not interested in the poor man's version, I want to see how over the top powerful this Xbox-PC-hybrid is gonna be now that I guess they're not trying to adjust to a budget like on a normal console
 
I've mentioned PC apps which are acting like software for PC. XSX and PS5 can't have that. Next Xbox will have that.... Like every other PC.
So you think those other storefronts are just standard PC apps and are disregarding this statement that Epic games store would likely need to build an app that functions on next gen Xbox console?

"We've been talking to the folks at Microsoft. If they do follow through with allowing Steam and the Epic Games Store on the next generation of Xbox console hardware, we will be there. I'm fairly certain that'll require us to build an app that functions there."

Epic Games Store GM Steve Allison
 
  • OEM consoles by manufacturers like ASUS. First Party Xbox serves as baseline, could see more higher end premium consoles from OEMs as well as cheaper slimmed down versions from a variety of companies
These things are going to be a lot more expensive than your traditional console. Even the mentioned "slimed down" versions will be very expensive.

They're also PCs like the Steam Machine, or at least that's how I'm reading it. Running Windows 11, access to PC store fronts like Steam, GOG and Epic etc. That just cements the price even further because Microsoft are not going to make much back on game sales if customers flock to other store fronts. I honestly think they'll lock access to Steam and Epic etc behind a Gamepass paywall. That way they're still guaranteed revenue on every unit sold.
 
So you think those other storefronts are just standard PC apps and are disregarding this statement that Epic games store would likely need to build an app that functions on next gen Xbox console?

"We've been talking to the folks at Microsoft. If they do follow through with allowing Steam and the Epic Games Store on the next generation of Xbox console hardware, we will be there. I'm fairly certain that'll require us to build an app that functions there."

Epic Games Store GM Steve Allison

Yes, it will be the same shit as Xbox Rog Ally X where you can install everything. Yes, it is a PC. Xbox branded one. With Windows 11 OS.
 
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2027 is best case scenario....

Fuck. I do understand the reasoning, they want a good and smooth launch OS wise and everything but man, I still hope 2027 happens for it.
 
There is no technical reason for not allowing 3rd-party stores on consoles, it's purely a business decision.

But It's the reason why console hardware is much cheaper than PC and always has been

The same was true for the NES and the Master System 40 years ago

Proprietary cartridges were a business decision too
 
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Who thinks that? Em... You? I think you need to re-read thread again from beginning. Hardware excuse is bullshit. XSX and PS5 can't have Epic, GOG, Steam and other stores and PC apps. This next Xbox will have the ability to install these PC apps, which PC is for. So, yes, next Xbox is a PC, and with Windows 11. So, expect errors like on Xbox Rog Ally which is guess what....a handheld PC
Rog Ally is licensed third-party hardware that competes with other handheld PCs. It wouldn't make sense for Microsoft to release an Xbox with the same Windows used on desktops. It would be Windows, yes, but a stripped-down version. If other consoles can't have Epic or Steam, it's because of an artificial limitation purely related to software, and that limitation comes from the benefit of having a more closed platform.

Also ROG Ally cannot run Xbox Series games.

I don't understand your obsession with calling it a PC. If you say it's because it will run PC games well... yes, that's confirmed, but I doubt it can be used on a desktop with a keyboard and mouse for PC tasks such as video editing or office work. It would be great though, but I highly doubt it.
 
it was obviously a rhetoric question. no i dont call it a hybrid because its a windows 11 pc.

If it was a rhetorical question, why did multiple people answer it? (This is a rhetorical question. :pie_savoring: ) You might have intended it as rhetorical, but it reads as a simple question -- and not a bad question at all, really. Many arguments can be avoided simply by defining terms.

Apologies if my first sentence, "It's not complicated," came across patronizing. I wasn't directing that at you. I meant that people were over-complicating it in the discussion.

Same thing when I said, "Just call it a hybrid and let it go.," I wasn't directing that at you. I was talking to the people I was describing in that paragraph, the ones stretching the term "console" to cover the new Xbox machine.

People are free, of course, to call it whatever they want. Call it an aardvark, I don't care. Personally I alternate between calling it a PC and a hybrid. Although even as a "hybrid," it seems like it's 90% PC and 10% console (my very rough estimate).
 
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Will be priced like one as well.
If it can ultimately do everything a PC does, the price will surely compete with that of PCs. If they can achieve a good price compared to a similar PC, which should be easy since it is hardware with an optimized manufacturing process and not separate parts, it may still be interesting.

I think it's more likely that it will be more restricted than a PC in terms of freedom, with a more restricted version of Windows limited to the Game Mode UI. I hope that in that case they adjust the price accordingly.
 
If it can ultimately do everything a PC does, the price will surely compete with that of PCs. If they can achieve a good price compared to a similar PC, which should be easy since it is hardware with an optimized manufacturing process and not separate parts, it may still be interesting.

I think it's more likely that it will be more restricted than a PC in terms of freedom, with a more restricted version of Windows limited to the Game Mode UI. I hope that in that case they adjust the price accordingly.

So a PC without a majority of the benefits of a PC? That sounds like a hard sell, but also sounds like something MS would do. Either that or as I mentioned in my last post, they could also lock access to third party storefronts behind a Gamepass sub.
 
I haven't the most important question answered. Are we getting Teams and Copilot installed?

I really hope so as who wouldn't want to take a nice Teams call while talking to Copilot on their Xbox?

🧐🧐🧐
 
Jean Claude Van Damme Ok GIF
 
So a PC without a majority of the benefits of a PC? That sounds like a hard sell, but also sounds like something MS would do. Either that or as I mentioned in my last post, they could also lock access to third party storefronts behind a Gamepass sub.
Rather, it's a dedicated gaming PC with an interface adapted for controllers and designed to be used on a TV. It still has advantages over consoles, such as access to games from any generation, or emulators through retroarch on Steam, as well as free online gaming.

Putting up a paywall to access third-party platforms... Well it doesn't sound too far fetched tbh, in that case it should have a much more subsidized price though.
 
So you think those other storefronts are just standard PC apps and are disregarding this statement that Epic games store would likely need to build an app that functions on next gen Xbox console?

"We've been talking to the folks at Microsoft. If they do follow through with allowing Steam and the Epic Games Store on the next generation of Xbox console hardware, we will be there. I'm fairly certain that'll require us to build an app that functions there."

Epic Games Store GM Steve Allison

A new skin for the "Xbox PC"
 
That's no doubt where they're heading, I think they just need a bridge over that gap until they have emulation working perfectly.
Still, another serious contender doing compact PCs focused on the living room experience is never a bad thing.
No, they will simply end compatibility with any Xbox game not already Play Anywhere. They can already emulate, the issue is legal rather than technical. The Magnus will still have the chip to run all Xbox Series compatible titles, but if they make a future emulation only PC that would end.
 
My point is that Magnus can serve as Microsoft's first real step toward pulling their Xbox userbase into their own storefront — giving them an instant base of at least 10 million users. From there, they could gradually expand that audience and use their deep PC and Windows integration to directly counter both the Steam ecosystem and the Epic Games Store.

Microsoft isn't just launching hardware; they're positioning themselves to reshape the PC market in a way only they can. With control over Windows, OS-level optimization advantages, and a huge pre-existing ecosystem, Magnus could become the foundation for a long-term storefront strategy that yields major returns.

And honestly, I wouldn't put it past them to use some very "creative" or cunning practices to undermine the competition — something far easier for them when they control the entire Windows operating system layer.

This won't disrupt the market overnight, but over a decade, it could evolve into a serious challenge to today's dominant platforms. Ignoring this would be a mistake.

Again tho, they can't use those very "creative" or cunning practices to undermine competition without risking a major lawsuit from said competitors, and rightfully so.

It'd be a repeat of the anticompetitive practices they were sued for in the '90s, only this time even worst since MS would knowingly be repeating it while already having gone through the ringer before and precedent being long established.

I didn't know how to use the multi-quote function, but I agree with you here. As I mentioned in my latest comment, Microsoft controlling the Windows OS layer can absolutely become a nightmare scenario for Valve and the whole Steam ecosystem. And honestly, I wouldn't put it past them to use some shady or subtle tactics to give their upcoming PC storefront an edge — it's much easier for them to do that on Windows than it is to fight Sony head-to-head in the console space.

In the end, though, this feels like the logical evolution for Xbox. It's a direction they should have moved toward far earlier, and Magnus might finally be the step that shifts their strategy into a place where their strengths actually matter.

In terms of MS turning Xbox into a PC gaming device, yeah, that's a logical conclusion for them in terms of gaming hardware. Can argue they should've done that with the OG Xbox but between the FM Towns Marty, Amiga CD32, and Apple Bandai Pippin I can understand why they decided against the idea at the time. Every single one of those failed terribly, so confidence was shaken.

But in terms of MS's strategy here becoming a "major threat" for Valve....I genuinely do not see it. Valve understand the PC gaming market better than Microsoft, and they have the much healthier brand name in PC gaming by miles. You can't simply buy that type of brand power and goodwill; it has to be earned, and Microsoft are losing already depleting goodwill in real time with the deterioration of Windows 11 and their rampant AI push.

I'm not saying they don't have any advantages, because they do, but I'm focusing on real & fair advantages like their 25 years of console hardware design knowledge, marketing, and global distribution with retail chains. Thing Valve don't really have, especially in the case of the latter two, and where they'd need to partner even more strongly with OEMs like Lenovo to make up the difference (and increase volume of system production).

Exactly this. They can't compete in the console market, but they have the Windows users. All they have to do is find a way to convince people to use their store and ecosystem.

Of course, for that, they have to offer more. My bet is that MS will make Windows have a proper console mode that turns off all the shit no one needs and gives most resources to the game. They'll then be able to offer native integration with the OS through their store, and I bet they'll push hard to monetize there. This will end up being a double win that will cut the cost (Xbox will become focused on software only, and tied to Windows) while giving them access to a massive user base.

It's going to be a gamble, but it has potential.

If MS do that for their store then they will have to do it for competing stores/launchers too. Or at least provide the APIs for the owners of those platforms to implement similar (exactly or close enough) navigation features in their own launchers, else it could be ruled as an anticompetitive practice.

And that's ultimately MS's biggest challenge in trying to do this whole Xbox PC/console thing and make Windows "the best place to play". Since they own the whole stack of the OS, the kernel, and the APIs, and have already both shown in the past they HAVE used that control to strangle competitors with anticompetitive practices AND been sued by the government for such, then a precedent already exists for companies like Valve, GOG, Epic etc. to utilize against MS in court if they so feel to do it.

That's the double-edged sword for MS due to the ownership of Windows and its massive market share: anything they try doing to make their storefront and gaming UI stand out against competitors which is based on features derived from specific code or access privileges only MS have, will be challenged in court over it. The same could potentially be the case if they try, say, offer new 1P releases at 50% off for Game Pass subs at a certain tier on the Microsoft Store using the Xbox FSE, because that'd be MS leveraging a chain of vertical integration that competitors simply cannot offer.

If their only option to matching MS's offer would be integrating Game Pass into their own storefronts, then they can challenge based on the notion that there is nothing inherently special to Game Pass as a service requiring them to integrate it into their storefronts to offer competitive features, outside of proprietary API code that MS refuse to provide to other Windows app developers (to create an artificial advantage for one of their own products/services in return).
 
If MS do that for their store then they will have to do it for competing stores/launchers too. Or at least provide the APIs for the owners of those platforms to implement similar (exactly or close enough) navigation features in their own launchers, else it could be ruled as an anticompetitive practice.

And that's ultimately MS's biggest challenge in trying to do this whole Xbox PC/console thing and make Windows "the best place to play". Since they own the whole stack of the OS, the kernel, and the APIs, and have already both shown in the past they HAVE used that control to strangle competitors with anticompetitive practices AND been sued by the government for such, then a precedent already exists for companies like Valve, GOG, Epic etc. to utilize against MS in court if they so feel to do it.

That's the double-edged sword for MS due to the ownership of Windows and its massive market share: anything they try doing to make their storefront and gaming UI stand out against competitors which is based on features derived from specific code or access privileges only MS have, will be challenged in court over it. The same could potentially be the case if they try, say, offer new 1P releases at 50% off for Game Pass subs at a certain tier on the Microsoft Store using the Xbox FSE, because that'd be MS leveraging a chain of vertical integration that competitors simply cannot offer.

If their only option to matching MS's offer would be integrating Game Pass into their own storefronts, then they can challenge based on the notion that there is nothing inherently special to Game Pass as a service requiring them to integrate it into their storefronts to offer competitive features, outside of proprietary API code that MS refuse to provide to other Windows app developers (to create an artificial advantage for one of their own products/services in return).
Gamepass offers 20% discount on all releases. Plus other reward points. 4x for Ultimate, 2x for Premium, 1x for Essential.
 
So you think those other storefronts are just standard PC apps and are disregarding this statement that Epic games store would likely need to build an app that functions on next gen Xbox console?

"We've been talking to the folks at Microsoft. If they do follow through with allowing Steam and the Epic Games Store on the next generation of Xbox console hardware, we will be there. I'm fairly certain that'll require us to build an app that functions there."

Epic Games Store GM Steve Allison
What's that Epic person talking about? It's Windows. If it's not running standard Windows apps it would fall flat on it's face. Epic don't need to make anything new. Well, a full screen mode for EGS to use controller in Windows would be convenient to not have to use mouse. Should've already been made long ago though and has nothing to do with Xbox.
 
What's that Epic person talking about? It's Windows. If it's not running standard Windows apps it would fall flat on it's face. Epic don't need to make anything new. Well, a full screen mode for EGS to use controller in Windows would be convenient to not have to use mouse. Should've already been made long ago though and has nothing to do with Xbox.
Because it's not "just Windows"
 
  • Xbox Next Gen capable of running full Windows 11, by default will have a console like interface
That isn't really a key feature to promote is it.
 
Because it's not "just Windows"
Lol, they have all just gaslit themselves into saying it's only a PC with BC even though presented with tons of contrary evidence.

If it runs PC SKUs, it's a PC, if it runs fixed spec optimized Console SKUs, it's a Console, regardless if it runs full windows or a stripped down Windows.

Technically it would be a Hybrid Console. Capable of running ALL previous Windows technologies, APIs, Dev environments. Windows SDK, GDK, GDKX, XDK, Win32, WinRT, emulations, everything under the sun.

IF it ran PC SKUs for the Xbox ecosystem, it would mean everything scales, they wouldn't need any specific fixed spec hardware, and EA, Ubisoft, Rockstar would have Xbox ecosystem versions for PC.
 
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Call me crazy but this feels like the moment for Xbox One pre-reversal strategy to make a comeback and it might actually work.
 
By the time it launches, it might be timed nicely with getting a new PC since it seems every 4-5 years my PC bombs out (laptop). And it still kind of works, so then I dump it off to one of nephews or nieces if they need it.

Problem is if this new Xbox/PC doesnt have a laptop model, I'd have to buy this expensive gadget and a new laptop when it starts failing. I just want a game system, not a suped up Xbox/PC box.

But if a laptop model comes out I can kill two birds with one stone.
 
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If they can achieve a good price compared to a similar PC, which should be easy since it is hardware with an optimized manufacturing process and not separate parts, it may still be interesting.
Yes a pc no one can upgrade is a dream come true then maybe the legendary Pc 2 is still possible after all. If its not even upgradable AND expensive its DOA. Like the Steam machine. Who in his right mind would buy an expensive pc that you have to throw away after a while like a laptop?
 
Stop talking in riddles then and explain it. If Epic would need to make a specific version of EGS for Xbox, wouldn't all devs have to make specific versions of their games for Xbox?
No, Epic won't be creating a new store or devs on that store creating new versions. They could optimize for the fixed spec but that's optional and up to them. Only the Xbox Ecosystem requires fixed spec Console SKUs in order to get certification.

What Epic is likely doing is providing secure packages for their store to run inside the PC container, a way to manage and control the store via controller usage, and controlling the storage inside the container, making sure their Anticheat has proper access. Xbox ecosystem games run inside a Type 1 hypervisor. They could allow Quick Resume on an entire PC container for the entire Epic store. Or each store could get separate secure containers. Kubernetes containers is how xCloud and GFN run their games. Basically, MS wants to create a secure console experience for each ecosystem.
By the time it launches, it might be timed nicely with getting a new PC since it seems every 4-5 years my PC bombs out (laptop). And it still kind of works, so then I dump it off to one of nephews or nieces if they need it.

Problem is if this new Xbox/PC doesnt have a laptop model, I'd have to buy this expensive gadget and a new laptop when it starts failing. I just want a game system, not a suped up Xbox/PC box.

But if a laptop model comes out I can kill two birds with one stone.
They're doing a portfolio of devices, which includes laptops. AT3 is for laptops.

I personally think that it's imperative that GDKX created and optimized games for Magnus run on ALL form factors running Magnus and branded Xbox. So let's say you have Consoles and PCs running AT2 Magnus, and a S tier Console and Laptops running AT3. All should run same games, same license. We shall see what direction MS goes, there's multiple options.

Either full unification with scalable PC SKUs, a hardware based universal platform with Magnus optimized SKUs, or simply the current status quo with scalable GDK games on PC, Laptops, Handhelds and fixed spec GDKX games on Consoles and Cloud.
 
Because it's not "just Windows"
Sigh, MS being vague as usual. There will be two different "devices" essentially identical in terms of hw but different in terms of branding. One (XBox console) will contain the keys required to boot XBox games - manufactured directly by MS. The other will be the XBox PC which will be manufactured by 3rd-parties - this one will *not* have the keys to boot XBox games. Both versions will use the Magnus AT2 etc AMD hw (so will be compatible from that point of view).

The main differences will be licensing based and branding. But obviously MS being so vague makes it easy to jump onto statements and get the wrong idea.

(I have no inside info, I'm just parsing what has been said by folks like Kepler and Heisenburg - ie people who do know.)

If *you* think that "it's just a pc" or "no it's a console really" are important, then you're missing the fact that the goal is to have two branches of the same evolutionary tree - an attempt to appeal to console and pc owners.

I think it's going to be an epic failure - but it is what MS have decided to do.
 
I just don't understand what the point is of a first party Xbox, if OEMs are able to make their own Xbox. If they have the AMD chips, with access to backwards capacity and the full screen Xbox experience…

Like Dell and ASUS can make and distribute hardware far more efficiently than Microsoft. What does a first party Xbox offer that Razer can't match?
I don't think you're correct on the last point but from rumours flying about Microsoft are not expecting to sell as much as a traditional console, hence the expected high price tag.

That would probably mean the unit would be selling at a break even at launch (most consoles are sold at a loss at launch). Obviously building in-house maximizes profit and insures build quality.
 
I'm no expert on licensing or anything, but I can't imagine MS has permission from developers or publishers to sell legacy xbox titles from every generation on windows.

I can't help but wonder if this is just their clever way of blurring that line. You could buy a steambox, but it won't play xbox games. If you buy an Xbox PC you can play xbox games on it, maybe even discs.

The distinction was probably obvious to everyone here, but I'm just starting to see the value of a Magnus machine.

What will that difference cost though.
For those that have a good software library they have purchased sure, it is a bonus for the games they own and especially were exclusive to it and are not available on PC.

Many if not most of Xbox 360 and Xbox One games are available on PC and are pretty cheap / very often on deep discounts and by MS's own admission the console wars the lost where the ones people were amassing their digital libraries, those that had GamePass with the various deals did not actually own the games so for them a PC or another console represents the same thing PC wise now.

All the users that fled to PC and PS5 during this GamePass push do not have a big BC library to go back to so while this argument could sound compelling it is also not the best argument ever if the device is a very very premium one cost wise. Meaning the premium people pay for OG Xbox and Xbox 360 and One compatibility.
 
Closed system, closed OS, closed ecosystem with whitelisted stores. If this is a Windows 11 computer just like every other computer, but with a "console-like" UI then it is just a PC like every other PC. If that is the case then, once again, some are going to pretend that xbox branding magically transforms it into something it is not.

We still don't know for sure what it is though. I'm not ready to start doubting what K KeplerL2 and HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 have said, but there are some discrepancies in what is being described from these various sources. If it truly is a console then it will be locked down and only apps/stores Microsoft allows will be running on the device.
Judging by Epic's statements and Bonds use of the word "curated" I'm guessing it is just a locked down PC with the ability to "sideload" other apps which include purpose built alternative stores. It's useless for me either way because why wouldn't I just use a fully open PC at that point instead of Windows Phone Console.
 
Pointing Up Morgan Freeman GIF by MOODMAN


And that's assuming most of those 10M people are like Adam

Otherwise most will make the jump to Playstation

I agree, but I dont think they are moving to playstation. All thats left now is Xbox fans that are invested in the platform, so I doubt they will give up all their previous purchases for a playstation when they can have an Xbox that gives you free games from Epic and also the power of Steam on a console/PC Hybrid. I don't think those peoplea re choosing a Playstation. The odd few, perhaps.
 
You're giving Microsoft too much credit. They have never risen to the top of a market unless by use of strongly anticompetitive practices and had they not been challenged by the government in the late '90s over things they were doing to cockblock Windows '95-era software developers (withholding API tools and giving 3P worst-running code as just two examples), then yeah we'd probably have a market today where MS had the biggest PC storefront for gaming, but it would not have been earned whatsoever.

They'd of just starved companies like Valve out through EEE and delaying providence of competitive API packages to them to give their own in-house products the advantage, and that would still not have stopped the declines in Windows as an OS we have seen over the past decade. Also I highly doubt Magnus will have any impact on Valve's hardware plans or stopping the shift in certain segment from turning towards Windows alternatives (whether exclusively or as alternative OSes for specific uses), and it's odd claiming what MS are doing with Magnus as reacting to a "small seed".

Like Steam, GOG, EGS etc. have been around for 1-2 decades, and console-exclusive/console-centric devs were already shifting to support platforms like Steam more heavily by the middle of last generation. MS typically don't push into a new segment until it's already clearly established and just rely on their capital to try outspending who's already there (or acquire them). It's been that way since the early '90s.
What's funny is that I can't think of anything that they were actually successful on aside from Word and Excel pushing out Word Perfect and Lotus.

Everything else was a failure even in those rare instances when MS actually made a good product such as Zune.
 
Well... There you have it. Microsoft is leaving the console business. It will build a reference pc with Xbox branding and licensing to partners. I wonder if they will lock the console games compatibility to the magnus SoC. That will make the next Xbox a target platform but will undermine the PC philosophy. Once this cycle finishes and the Xbox console players upgrade. I think gamepass will implode.
 
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