ReasonBeing
Member
Edit: nevermind. Image is too big
Picture a pot meeting a kettle
Picture a pot meeting a kettle
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[MLiD] Why XBOX Helix is Still (Kinda) a Console
- Thread starter Proelite
- Start date
Kacho
Gold Member
Yeah it's two sides of the same coin with that guy lol
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Bernardougf
Member
Its a PC with xbox BC mode ....
Whatever MS and its fans want to label it to feel better is fine by me
Whatever MS and its fans want to label it to feel better is fine by me
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Exactly.
It's a hybrid. A current gen PC, and last gen console. From my understanding, it will not have next-gen console games
Bernardougf
Member
Btw trying to sell a 1.200 console its going to be really fucking hard...
Now a 1.200 PC its not something out of this world and in the ball park of other pre-builds...
Just saying... marketing wise PC would make much more sense.
Now a 1.200 PC its not something out of this world and in the ball park of other pre-builds...
Just saying... marketing wise PC would make much more sense.
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ReasonBeing
Member
The market for this will be small for sure. It's an enthusiast product through and through.
DavidGzz
Member
Identifying as a console isn't a flex. They should quit. No console feature is exclusive anymore. It used to be cool when the 360 was out because you could have a super powerful platform with a nice UI. But since that gen, consoles suck. Now you can have a console UI on a PC, no pay to play online, better graphics, mods, play games windowed while watching a stream on the same screen, etc. Consoles are now neutered PCs. People continue trying to "burn" the next Xbox by saying it doesn't suck as much as it used to lol
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Unfortunatecookie
Member
So far, it seems like they're running the same playbook as before: codename announcement, a lot of (vague) promises, interviews with execs that don't tell you much, and a split ecosystem of devices. There's nothing wrong with this if it works; but it just hasn't worked for the last decade.
I have a feeling they're going to announce the (final) product with a lot of questions unanswered. If a bunch of OEM's/PC-makers are also making a Nextbox, it's in their best interest to highlight their PC history and PC expertise.
ASUS/MSI/Lenovo etc. can't lean on being experts at making consoles. However, they can lean on their history of making gaming PC's. I think that's going to create a bunch of confusion for Xbox that can't be easily solved.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This COVID generation has been terrible, Microsoft marketting and paid shills have been unbareable. I was hoping this generation would be better, but I think we are going to see something much worse. From this is an XBOX, to this is a console or whatever spin they are going to push. I need to see more.
I still think they are being misleading when they say XBOX games, which means Microsoft first party in reality.
I still think they are being misleading when they say XBOX games, which means Microsoft first party in reality.
Stuart360
Member
Honestly what difference does it make either way?. Its a box that connects to your tv. For me its a console.
I swear its because of the rumoured power difference and people just want to be able to say 'well its a pc really not a console so it doesnt count' in the DF comparisons.
I swear its because of the rumoured power difference and people just want to be able to say 'well its a pc really not a console so it doesnt count' in the DF comparisons.
bitbydeath
Member
I think people are afraid to admit it's a PC because then it would no longer be directly competing with PlayStation.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
It wont compete with PS no matter how many times it's called a console.
Funny enough I have wanted MLB The Show on PC for years and this is how I might get it?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Sooner
Member
Lol, no.
It's just a third-party box to access the Steam store to play Steam games and to make money for Valve.
It's no different than if Panasonic, Dell or whoever else released a Steam Machine.
On this machine, Valve gets 30% of every game sold. Microsoft gets 0%, except for the normal 70% they get selling their own games on any other PC or PlayStation. That's not an Xbox.
Xbox is over. Give up - Microsoft did.
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Unfortunatecookie
Member
I guarantee you that there will be attempts to have boot level access. If it's running Windows 11/12 then hooooooboy, Microsoft are in for a lot of headaches from hackers.
Topher
Identifies as young
kevboard
Member
the Series X is still not jailbroken.
the thing is, with consoles, if you can run homebrew without issue, people tend to not care to jailbreak it.
the PS3 had homebrew support for a long time, then Sony removed Linux support, and like 2 months later it was jailbroken.
the Series X is a very open platform, so there's no real need to jailbreak.
you can easily install Emulators and homebrew games and easily port stuff to it because all you really have to do is repackage the PC version and adjust some stuff for proper controller support.
the next Xbox will be even more open. so I doubt anyone will be interested in jailbreaking it
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Proelite
Member
Fess
Member
Locked? Why?
I think it's going to be like the Xbox Ally, Windows booting into Xbox App Fullscreen Experience (Xbox Mode going forward). You'll be able to go out to the regular Windows desktop to do whatever you want. The difference is that it'll have dedicated hardware helping out with console Backwards Compatibility.
Fess
Member
I paid over that for the PS5 Pro with disc drive. But I'm not a satisfied customer so you're still kinda right. They should market it as a Windows PC tailored for the living room with bonus 25 years of console compatibility.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Why bring this pathetic shit here. Leave those psychos including that red dragon guy on XI've been seeing the xbox warriors come out in full force being morons since this thing was announced. Apparently the xbox community is over 1.8 billion people now.
It's not Xbox fans bringing it up and shouting it's a pc for over a year or more. Shrugs.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Writing, none upgradable locked PC is one of the funniest descriptions of a PC I've ever heard.
That to me sounds exactly like a console, haha.
We need to know more.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Can't we all just agree that it's a hybrid device like the switch?
MisterXDTV
Member
They literally can't sell a Windows device that runs PC games without Steam support. It would be completely pointless and even less people would buy it
It's that simple
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
To me, it's a console hybrid device that will allow launchers.
MS will ATTEMPT to take the simplicity of a console and the benefits of pc gaming and your catalogue and bundle it up into a device that is easy for people who don't want to or can't do a driver update.
MS will ATTEMPT to take the simplicity of a console and the benefits of pc gaming and your catalogue and bundle it up into a device that is easy for people who don't want to or can't do a driver update.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You can have a hybrid, you lose HW upgrades but you have full software freedom. See GabeDeck.
Or a laptop even....
Power Pro
Member
If they keep charging for online play on this, it's still less useful then a PC.
Charging for online play made me play less and less online games over the years. It's such a stupid thing to charge for when most paid games have the same free to play microtransactions riddled all over them.
Charging for online play made me play less and less online games over the years. It's such a stupid thing to charge for when most paid games have the same free to play microtransactions riddled all over them.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Both laptops and Gabe box allows you to upgrade your ram and nvme storage and run any os you want. Some manufacturers solder memory to mobos but yeah that is a laptop.
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Bernardougf
Member
The difficult here is trying to sell this "console" to those people for probably 1.200+ dollars ... this are not the kind o people that looks for simplicity and expensive, they want simple and cheap aka true consoles ...
Be it as it may, imho the markering is all wrong, if you are going to aim this device at the enthusiastic you wil definitely not convince anyone outside their believers and fandom this a true console, you should instead be hammering the point that its a powerful full fledged PC (even if not upgradable) with the best power vs cost in the market, a 5080-like pc with top of the art RT for unusual less dollars (if they subsidy) and you get full bc compatibility as a big bonus...
Imo right now outside their fans they are simply selling this for no one with this strategy ... if this is their intent and they only care to push this expensive hardware for their fans and calling it a "console" warms their heart and bring them together.. so be it , I can see why and accept.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This is really easy to market.
Do you want the flexibility of a pc. Do you want the ease of a console. Do you want the power of a 5080 Vs the competition.
People pay over double the price of a 5080 for a 5090 for 30 percent more performance.
But we need to see the real world benchmarks and examples. This product ONLY becomes a consideration to me if it does all of the above WELL. can Xbox pull that off? That's questionable
Series X showed they know how to make kick ass hardware that competes with the top dog but the software was not ticking the boxes for everyone. That's the issue. Content. Which everyone seems to be struggling with.
I dunno what this box holds but I'm excited to see more. If it gives 5080 performance at 1,299 I would be all over it for a spare room or my bedroom. It's a no brainer for me if done well. I wouldn't have it in my front room though. I'm set there.
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KungFucius
King Snowflake
Yes. If its a PC that is somewhat open and lets you install and manipulate things then it might be a cool piece of hardware. If it is locked down to all hell then it will be something that frustrates a lot of people when they try to get some obscure titles to work.
Bernardougf
Member
Like I said for fans like you yes is really easy ... right now for the rest its not that simple; not the way they are doing it.
1.299 console vs 1.299 pc is a huge difference for marketing outside our bubble in neogaf
fallingdove
Member
And yet small form factor PCs that run contemporary Windows PC games/ports natively from multiple game stores from supposed competitors and include console emulation have been around for years.
The mental gymnastics on display with the Helix is shocking. Microsoft is essentially releasing an official Xbox emulator for a first party PC and somehow gets credit for the last 20+ years of PC gaming and hobbiest game preservation. Xbox fans need to get over it already. The console as they've known it for 4 generations is dead.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
I mean theoretically they could. Build in Windows Store, Battlenet, Epic, Ubisoft and EA storefronts, lock everything else down.
Native Windows has capability to lock down allowed applications after all. It would be a bit tougher to propagate that for updates and new games from the stores above but doable.
I kind of want to see them roll with that and get some popcorn!
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Yeah but, in theory this could be a 1,299 hybrid console that delivers the performance of a plus 2k prebuilt pc.
That must sound interesting to anyone, surely?
You might be lucky to grab a 5060 Ti prebuilt for 1,299 right now. I would guess.
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Pedro Motta
Gold Member
You have to have low IQ to be an Xbox shill and if you're a full retard you get extra points.I've been seeing the xbox warriors come out in full force being morons since this thing was announced. Apparently the xbox community is over 1.8 billion people now.
MisterXDTV
Member
I mean theoretically they could. Build in Windows Store, Battlenet, Epic, Ubisoft and EA storefronts, lock everything else down.
Native Windows has capability to lock down allowed applications after all. It would be a bit tougher to propagate that for updates and new games from the stores above but doable.
I kind of want to see them roll with that and get some popcorn!
MS sells its own games on Steam, so it's completely crazy to even suggest it theoretically
You can't tell people your machine supports PC games and then lock out the BY FAR biggest PC game store on the planet
It would be better to cancel the product launch altogether
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riko
Member
Sounds like you're talking about a different currency. Imagine 1200 USD (plus tax) in whatever currency you use instead.
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bitbydeath
Member
People already do that now with PC's. Doesn't make them a console.
Horseganador
Member
Helix is a PC with Win11 where you'll play PC games (and it will have backward compatibility with Xbox). I don't understand where the doubt lies. Everyone understands the differences between a Switch 2 console and a ROG Xbox Ally X PC, or between a PS5 console and a Steam Machine PC, but with Helix, people have to look for excuses and debate where there isn't one.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I did say "theoretically"
. And I agree it would be a dumb thing to do but this is MS and they have been doing dumb things with Xbox for 15 years.