Topher
Identifies as young
What if I take that same device and hook it up to my monitor and primarily use keyboard and mouse?
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[MLiD] Why XBOX Helix is Still (Kinda) a Console
- Thread starter Proelite
- Start date
What if I take that same device and hook it up to my monitor and primarily use keyboard and mouse?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Topher
Identifies as young
Then it's a console with benefits.
Liking "hybrid" more and more.
Fess
Member
Yeah it's converted from SEK. I'm not sure how to compare prices tbh, 25% taxes are included here, but no tax in US? In the end, how much are you in reality paying for a $1200 device?
Either way, Copilot says that a $1200 Xbox would cost 14000SEK in Sweden. That's roughly 2500SEK more than I paid for PS5 Pro with disc drive. It's a lot, at least for a console, but you would probably pay 25000SEK for a decent gaming PC so it depends how powerful it is as a PC.
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Fess
Member
That's the easiest definition. It's more than just a PC. And it's more than just a console.
Jesb
Member
So why not just come out and say it that all your pc games will run on this.
Sorcerer
Member
Jeff Gertsman was suggesting that Microsoft may sabotage themselves by requiring a paid account to access the online Xbox part of the console.
Not charge you to access the PC side (Steam, Epic, and such) but also saying fuck you if want any support on that side of the console. Clearly hands off and try using it at your own risk.
My thought not his:
Maybe to try to convince you the Xbox paid part is the way to go? Controlled console gaming is the best bet after all?
Not charge you to access the PC side (Steam, Epic, and such) but also saying fuck you if want any support on that side of the console. Clearly hands off and try using it at your own risk.
My thought not his:
Maybe to try to convince you the Xbox paid part is the way to go? Controlled console gaming is the best bet after all?
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GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
To me it's still slightly more console than pure off the shelf PC. Like the hardware approach here is no different than the approach that they would have done anyway for a "true" console. It's custom hardware with gaming in mind.
Software approach will be different but I don't think this is gonna boot straight into raw Windows 11 or whatever.
So it will still have enough of a custom design that it's not just a PC.
Software approach will be different but I don't think this is gonna boot straight into raw Windows 11 or whatever.
So it will still have enough of a custom design that it's not just a PC.
MisterXDTV
Member
Custom hardware my ass
It's a AMD PC APU off the shelves
The only thing "custom" is for playing old Xbox games
Bojji
Gold Member
There is barely anything custom about PS4 and PS5 APUs, yet - they are considered proper consoles.
Having "off the shelves" stuff doesn't change anything when it comes to console/pc differentiation (PS3 had 7800 GTX with 1/2 memory bus and rops).
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cafecat
Member
funny fact: PlayStation and Nintendo has more console market share than Xbox in China, that's why some developers here with high performance demand title if they want develop a console version, the 1st option is PlayStation 5. PlayStation is involved in Chinese game industry way better than Xbox and Nintendo, so we see some single player games and gahca games from China prefer to sign exclusive deal with Sony. Maybe he just don't kown the xbox situation in China, most people just consider more PC game pass or buy XGPU home share to try these XGP day one games, this is one of the reason part of chinese gamers don't buy games on Xbox (App).
One thing good of Xbox is that its XGP help some indie studios in China get fund for their game.
One thing good of Xbox is that its XGP help some indie studios in China get fund for their game.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I think MS may end up fairly successfully consol-zing GDK games on Helix, and maybe even will extend that to regular Windows.
The question really is will they be successful in getting publishers to actually care about the GDK when there won't be any Xbox devices that can't just play games from other stores.
Still not entirely sure WTF they are doing though so seems premature but I've changed my stance from thinking "it's just a PC" to thinking they may actually do something more interesting than just gaslighting marketing.
The question really is will they be successful in getting publishers to actually care about the GDK when there won't be any Xbox devices that can't just play games from other stores.
Still not entirely sure WTF they are doing though so seems premature but I've changed my stance from thinking "it's just a PC" to thinking they may actually do something more interesting than just gaslighting marketing.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I am genuinely curious why are Xbox fans so keen to insist it's a console? Is there more prestige in being a console fanboy than a PC fanboy? Does it being a PC threaten to make their tribe disappear?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I haven't seen anyone adimently say it's a console. Is this something that's happening with the weirdos on X?
MisterXDTV
Member
To hold the fake right to brag about it being more powerful than PS6...
They know very well that labelling it as a PC would instantly make the comparison apples to oranges and completely silly
Proelite
Member
You can do that right now with PS5 and Xbox Series for some games.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
That just sounds weird to me. It's going to be more powerful than the ps6 just because it is this hybrid Frankenstein thing. That's what I've called it from the beginning.
This thing will absolutely be used in comparisons on DF, just like high end pcs are. Even a switch of there was a switch version. Putting this box in a box/category really doesn't matter at the end of the day. It will be a product people can go in a store, buy, plug in their TV and hopefully have a console like experience with the biggest catalogue of games ever seen on a console...that's kinda a pc. Haha
Running those games very well hopefully.
Topher
Identifies as young
And you can plug your PC into a TV and navigate with a controller using big picture mode.
So none of this has gotten us anywhere
ReasonBeing
Member
The only reason that I can think of for why one would care what any of these devices are categorized as, are the ones who want to use said classification for childish console warrior BS.
We still go through the same song and dance with Switch devices. People arguing over if it's a handheld or traditional console, so that they can somehow use this as a basis to some "what I like is more successful than what you like" type of argument.
The Helix platform will be comprised of devices that you can play video games on. Outside of sales comparisons, is there any meaningful reason why one should care if it's a PC or Console?
We still go through the same song and dance with Switch devices. People arguing over if it's a handheld or traditional console, so that they can somehow use this as a basis to some "what I like is more successful than what you like" type of argument.
The Helix platform will be comprised of devices that you can play video games on. Outside of sales comparisons, is there any meaningful reason why one should care if it's a PC or Console?
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bitbydeath
Member
Topher
Identifies as young
The motivations could be "warrior" in nature on either side, but that's not really relevant unless someone is just using it along with typical warrior rhetoric. Originally this was questioned and debated due to the mere fact that it never made sense for a console to include other stores. As I've said, I'm more in the "hybrid" camp now and talking about it and exchanging thoughts is what has brought me there so I really don't see the problem in the discussion myself.
ReasonBeing
Member
Well of course this is just one anecdotal data point, but for my perspective, most (or at least a large percentage) of the discussion here seems to revolve around wanting it to fit into some particular metaphorical box for "warrior" reasons. I'm speaking broadly of course, and all of your discussion of the topic is an example where this doesn't seem to be the case.
I find it more interesting how the simple fact that it doesn't neatly fit into a category seems to make some, on either side of the discussion, uncomfortable. This same phenomena can be witnessed across topics, especially politics. It's the black or white fallacy (I'm making that term up, as I don't know the real name of it) where if something isn't "A", then it has to be "B".
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MisterXDTV
Member
From a business stand-point a console can never work like that because after people buy the hardware, they are not getting money anymore if they allow people to buy games from other stores
It was the same with cartridges and discs, now it's a digital license, but the business model hasn't changed for 40+ years....
At some point MS will have to explain how they expect to make money from this thing.
Because people don't pay for online MP on PC and don't care about any other store that is not called Steam
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MisterXDTV
Member
What?
Switch is the most classic business console model possible
- One Store/Vendor (Nintendo)
- Exclusive games
- Locked platform
This has nothing to do with the form-factor or the handheld vs fixed debate
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Topher
Identifies as young
That's fair. We do like our categories. The debate will rage on well after it is revealed, I imagine.
Even the insiders have no clue how this thing will make money for Microsoft. If I had to guess it will be reliant on subs, ads and unsubsidized hardware, but really I have no idea either.
Joe Cool
Gold Member
Does the video actually have good info? I haven't followed Xbox or Helix, I am not going to afford a gaming PC anytime soon with these crazy prices, but I want to learn more because console gaming is fucked and I want to expand my options. I don't click on people's clickbait thumbnail nonsense though, but I'd like to watch some videos about it with what is known so far (if anything.)
PauloRoberto
Member
Congratulations MS... you did it AGAIN and made everyone confused about your last (yes, im telling that) gaming machine...
Steve Holt
Member
No one is gonna physically stock this imo especially after the XSS and XSX debacle. I imagine it will be available just via Microsoft store.
Gamer_By_Proxy
About to beat off
It's trans and it's SSRI is the AI.
ReasonBeing
Member
It's distribution will undoubtedly not be expansive as the Series S in Series X was, but let's not forget that retailers moved a fair amount of units the first couple to few years after launch. Retailer such as Walmart stock desktop and laptop computers, and individually, these computer models sell a fraction of the amount of units as the series consoles. Best Buy stocks Quest 3's, Rog Ally's, Legions and I don't think that these devices even hit a million sales individually. If they do, it's not much more.
Point being, it's not a zero sum game, just because it won't move as many units as their traditional consoles of the past, does it mean that they won't be apart of normal distribution channels.
Edit: the quest 3 is not as good of an example, as I think it pushes over a million a year.
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Sportler
Member
What do exclusive games have to do with the definition of a console? The Xbox One didn't have any exclusive games, since everything was released for PC. Of course, the tablet is the crucial factor for the Switch. Without the Switch tablet, you can't play the console on a TV. The Switch 2 doesn't have any physical media, which was a defining characteristic of consoles in the past. The first Xbox was initially called a PC due to its technology and hardware. Nevertheless, it established itself as a console.
laynelane
Member
I've been reading different opinions with interest. I still believe it's most appropriate to call it a PC, but the hybrid theory is very intriguing. I'm also watching to see how MS markets it - they're often unclear and there's often a reason for that. That's another part of this that I find interesting.
I saw your idea about ads and subs being how it makes money in another comment. I agree about both of those and also about the device not being subsidized. I really hope the ads part doesn't catch on, though (if it actually happens). There's so many companies that are just frothing at the bit to impose ads on us through our games and gaming hardware. I'd like those particular floodgates to stay closed - forever or at least for a lot longer.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Stop right there.
We have already discussed this months ago. And you are avoiding the very real position that Microsoft can only offer BC of 3rd party games that are not play-anywhere if it is through a "console". Because that is the words in the contract that they had. MS doesn't have the means to go back to every game studio, some of which had ceased to exist, and re-write new contract terms. For most of them they only gave Xbox the right to sell console games, NOT PC licenses. And as stupid as it sounds, the words are clear cut that Xbox can't just transplant the license to a PC emulator.
You think this is about people arguing over the internet. The reality is that Helix's very existence hinges on the physical chip that MS called the "console" which keeps to the letter of the contract. Without which Helix would lose the BC and thus truly become nothing but a PC.
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NickFire
Member
I'm wondering if accessing the pc side ends up requiring a paid gamepass account. They could justify it by calling it just a console.
Well when your base model is less powerful graphically than the previous gens xbox one X....was never going to end well.
I'm guessing xbox side will require gamepass to play online. Pc side won't. And they get you with monthly sub for xbox backwards compatiblity as additional tier or some other nickle and diming bullshit.
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MisterXDTV
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not entirely true, it's got all of GAF talking about it looking forward to more info on the edge of their feet.
Aaron Greenberg is salivating somewhere.
ReasonBeing
Member
I can't help but see this as a Red Herring, as what the community ends up defining a console/PC/hybrid device to be is irrelevant to the facts of the matter, and any issues that Microsoft may have with its licensing partners.
I think it should also be acknowledged that you, nor I, nor anyone within this forum know the structure of Microsoft's licensing agreement with its partners.
There is actually precedent we can look to though to gain some insight to what POSSIBLY could be done. When the Wii U released, Nintendo was able to sell the entirety of the native Wii software catalog on the Wii shop, without having to renegotiate the license to do so with every publisher. This was achieved by incorporating the Wii platform in its entirety within the Wii U. This is why you would literally have to boot into the OG Wii mode. The only games that you couldn't purchase on the Wii store, from within the Wii U, or games that were delicit previous to the Wii U launch.
Now this is speculation, but recent comments made by AMD surrounding hardware conpatibility lead me to believe that Microsoft's approach will be something similar. I do not believe that you will have your PC games and Xbox games all available together. I SPECULATE that there will be a BC mode, and a "PC" mode, but I can't stress enough that this is just what I think is going to happen.
I'd love to have a good faith discuss on the subject, but I have to say that it has been difficult to do, seeing that our previous two interactions consisted of you arguing against points that I never made.
kevboard
Member
no, I assume it's just a very closed off Xbox mode, and a limited Windows mode.
I could see them not shipping full Windows on it. in order to play Windows games you do not actually need full windows. you only need the Direct X runtime and similar libraries that are absolutely necessary to run games, plus a way to mimic the folder structure of Windows, which the current Xbox consoles already do to a degree.
having the PC part limited as much as possible would also make it less attractive for people that just want to get a cheap PC. if they want to sell it at the lowest price possible, that is actually key as to not entice crypto bros or general PC users buying them in masses and never using it as an actual console.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Its a PConsole. P is silent.
ReasonBeing
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
kevboard
Member
Ignore the girl part, well I guess unless it's an accurate description
the P is silent after all... and who pees silently? THOSE WHO SIT... AND WHO SITS? GIRLS!
ReasonBeing
Member
Catch me in the bathroom at 3:00 a.m. with all the lights off, I'm sitting down bro. My lazy ass isn't aiming blind.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
MS would love to have Xbox itself being nothing more than an app or Windows Icon that you click on. Pure emulation layer as a part of Windows would be so much easier than what they ACTUALLY did, which was shrinking the entire Xbox hardware into a chip. Sony did the same with PS1 PC on PS2 and 1st generation PS2 BC on the PS3.
As for the Wii shop, that is a console inside a console. That is not a PC license so no contract is broken. You can try to pretend i am lying but that is just you dismissing what I am saying, that is on you. i can tell you the facts, you can ignore it if that makes you happy.
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