Bojji
Member
Yep. And what's up with that color change?
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
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Yep. And what's up with that color change?
winjer
Gold Member
That is one of the big mistakes of modern developers. They think that adding film grain, motion blur, chromatic aberration, vignette makes things more cinematic. It doesn't.
What makes something cinematic is writing, stagging, blocking, pacing, vision. And in this regards, most modern games that are trying to be cinematic fail miserably.
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Bojji
Member
Console and PC games are often far from native res (I guess it's a choice on pc), when you add "screen shitting" effects like Radial Blur, film grain or CA - you just destroy already poor image quality.
Movies have pristine 4k res with infinite anti aliasing.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
T4keD0wN
Member
nkill20
Member
I'm so sick of roadmap slop, I blame CDPR.Stalker 2 was self published and they still rushed it out. Then they released two patches, each with 1,800 fixes. I wish i was making this up. 1,800 bug fixes each. Were these 3,600 bug fixes in the first month all Tim Sweeney's fault?
Or maybe these greedy mother fuckers wanted to released the game before thanksgiving and just shipped a broken game knowing they had 3,600 bugs that they knew devs were working to fix. It wasnt big bad EA or Ubisoft forcing devs to ship the game early. It was themselves.
This roadmap was released earlier today by Samson devs. This game launched on April 8th. In 21 days, they would have released 4 updates (plus im pretty sure i saw a hotfix get applied last night). The first two improved CPU bound framerates by a whopping 60%, and the frametimes are still not perfect even at 30 fps. They still have two more to go. They are also self published. Why couldnt they have delayed the game by 21 days? Is this also Tim Sweeney's fault?
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
If the artistic vision is the one on the right (and it is, that's why both are always on by default), then by turning it off, you are viewing the game wrong.
1) As other have pointed, we play the game however the fuck we want.
2) If CA and grain are altering the colors AS MUCH as seen in your example, then you fuck that "artistic vision". The one on the left looks better IMO.
3) I don't think I've said you HAVE to play like me, if you enjoy these effects good for you.
Also, give me that sweet DLSS 5, inject it in my computer please !
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
1.) I agree, but you aren't getting the intended version
2.) Normal colors aren't the standard , YOU are altering the colors too much by turning off things, but I do agree that some post processing effects destroy image quality TOO much.
3.) I agree with this, but again you aren't getting the intended version which is a big deal because it sets nuance like mood etc.
Lastly DLSS5 is A.I. slop filter garbage and looks horrible, artificial and eyes straining. DLSS5 is a cheap and lazy way to add fidelity and destroy art direction so that the greedy industry can fire dev teams and generate generic garbage for cheap. DLSS5 will destroy gaming. Visuals in the future should look like those actual rendered tech demos not A.I. slop.
EDIT: This is the future of visuals.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
DLSS5 is such a misguided attempt at improving visuals for masses that cant afford $5,000 cards. The path tracing comparisons in Pragmata are so amazing, and I feel sad that 95% of Nvidia's own market cant play them. Why didnt DLSS5 attempt to do path tracing reconstruction using ingame assets instead of a photorealistic conversion using some AI trained assets?
Just train the AI model on Pragmata for a few hundred hours, or maybe a million, i dont know how long it takes, and use that as a filter so everyone can enjoy the path tracing experience. DLSS used to be trained on a per game basis back in the day. It's essentially the same thing as the pre-rendered backgrounds in the RE0 and RE1 Remakes, right? The AI model replaces all textures. Train the AI on each game's path traced version instead and slap that on to the textures.
Probably more complicated and more expensive than just slapping a shitty photorealism filter on it.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
I added more.
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
But what's the intended version? The one running on a high end PC at 120 FPS/Hz maxed out? Or the one running at 30FPS sub 720p on consoles with sometimes heavy sacrifices? Or at 60FPS with even bigger sacrifices? And did you ask the developers who created what seems like beautiful assets if they wanted them buried under tons of effects like vignette?
Again you love it, fine, but please don't talk to me about the "intent" which was never MY point anyway.
I'll see you in 3 years, once the technology has evolved and is everywhere as that's where we're going. Whether we like it or not.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Meanwhile over in UK:
Bitstream
Member
Neural rendering, sure, but it won't be in the form of instagram filters. Hopefully in 3 years when it's "everywhere", they've figured out how to make a main character like Grace have the same face throughout the game, and not some "close enough" approximation that looks like it could be someone else altogether.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Don't forget depth of field.
I'll decide for myself what I'm going to look at thank you very much!
I'll decide for myself what I'm going to look at thank you very much!
Bojji
Member
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
The intended version is the version that the studio shipped without changes to it. I'm sure all devs would love everyone to play their games in the best state, max settings etc, but not everyone can afford a PS5 Pro or PC and OLED 4k display. Lowering fidelity isn't the same as changing the colors, color temperature, removing effects, adding mods etc. I didn't say I loved anything, but intent is intent.
This means nothing and the industry goes where gamers allow, this attitude is sheep like and in the current state DLSS 5 sucks.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
PS4 is still a big upgrade over the PS3 looking Zelda Tears of the Kingdom which won Best Technical Achievement in 2023 over Avatar.PS4 looking game - TECHNICAL ACHIEVEMENT
March Climber
Member
The ones choosing the image on the left are why eventually 99% of movies will all look like a Netflix movie. They have already cracked the code to make their films as appealing as possible to as many demographics as possible, including people looking at TVs in stores.
CowboyLou
Member
There's nothing sacred about "the vision". No game that makes it over the finish line is uncompromised to begin with, thanks to both realities of production or the realities of technology. Who are these "artists" we love to put on a pedestal, anyway? The animators? modelers? texture creators? What if they disagreed with each other? What if there were conflicting visions between art leads? Whose "vision" is it that really makes it into the final game? A shipping game is not a pristine window into the mind of some monolithic entity. A shipping game is the result of compromise and conflict. Any dev will tell you about things they wish had been done differently. Not that us assholes playing around with sliders and configs and changing color grading and post processing know any better than the devs, but to uncompromisingly prostrate yourself before "the vision" is ridiculous. Intent is muddled at best and we're all free to toy with it as we please. Personally I leave games with their default post-processing etc. 95% of the time because despite the above I still do appreciate original intent to the extent it manifests, but it shouldn't be a totem.
Edit: Having said all that, gimme the one on the right please.
Edit: Having said all that, gimme the one on the right please.
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KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Again you won't force me to play with CA, grain and vignette and I don't get why you seem upset about this lol. But I think it's very telling how selective you can be.
And I don't care about "the intent" if the intent is to destroy (IMHO) the IQ. I've already said that. I'm playing with mods if I feel like it, with Reshade etc etc... And what?
And if it goes with DLSS 5, I'm fine with that since I'm sure it will improve a lot and I don't hate what I've seen. If not, well I don't really care too as I'll keep playing anyway
But it's not because I see potential in DLSS 5 that you should call any person that disagree with you a sheep. Let's be a bit smarter than that please.
If anything, it's actually the opposite and we just got a big example today with the next movie by the one and only Ridley Scott. Look at that trailer
Looks like shit, every color is muted after the first few seconds (probably a memory). Everything is buried under a grey/dark photography that you can find in every Amazon or Netflix flick.
Now look at big movies from the early 2000s, or even before. Pirates of the Caribbean, Kill Bill, Spider-Man etc etc... People weren't afraid of colors.
March Climber
Member
I didn't specifically mean the color itself, I meant the uniformity.
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Yeah I get that, pretty much the photography which is why I said "Everything is buried under a grey/dark photography that you can find in every Amazon or Netflix flick".
And I maintain that it's the opposite. Before this trend we had colorful films with vibrant, non-uniform colors. I show you a picture of Spider-Man you recognize the film. Same for Pirates of the Caribbean, Mad Max etc.
Now most films are interchangeable, buried under muted colors and heavy post process which result in exactly what you don't like (apparently): uniformity.
Extraction, Triple Frontier, The Gray Man and now the new movie by Scott etc etc... they all look the same.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
that would be the director. In movies, he tells the cinematographer the look he's going for and its the cinematographer's job to get it done. In games, that job is the art director's who then works with the technical director to get the look the main director wants. The programmers work under the tech director while the animators, modelers and artists work under the art director and do his bidding who is following directions from say Neil Druckmann. You dont get conflicts if everyone is working on one man's singular vision.
The Star Wars Outlaws guys did a lot of fancy stuff emulating the look of the movie as if the game was shot with a film lens. Same engine as Avatar which goes for a more gamey look.
T4keD0wN
Member
I would argue that the only "intended version" is looking at concept art in the galleries/bonuses and artstation profiles of the concept artists.
We are all playing the unitended versions because the intended versions are just a bunch of jpgs that the developers are doing their best to recreate.
We are all playing the unitended versions because the intended versions are just a bunch of jpgs that the developers are doing their best to recreate.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i was shocked to see how bland that movie looks because Ridley is a cinematic genius. Even his awful movies like Prometheus and Alien Covenant are gorgeous movies i can jerk off to. The Last Duel caught a lot of flack for the blue medieval filter, but I honestly thought it sold the era really well. It's dark but like Covenant and Prometheus, the visuals still popped off the screen.
i honestly have no idea whats going on with this movie, but you are right, its probably a sign of things to come. Streaming has really killed the quality of modern movies. Snyder movies used to look amazing and then he signed that Netflix deal and everything looks like garbage.
That said, Project Hailmary looked marvelous so there are still some directors who still give a shit. Nolan and Villenvue will deliver once again as well.
March Climber
Member
Again, the color itself isn't the point.
An excess of color in every film would still also be a version of uniformity, but the point was that this wasn't necessarily the case back then. Sure, some larger than life movies and franchise I.P. were more colorful, especially those for all ages, but then you did have more muted tones in war movies, prison movies, biopics, etc. Sometimes you'd even have movies like TMNT 1, Burton films, and Darkman utilizing heavy shadows in their work.
We can both agree on the present having a uniformity issue, but we simply disagree that 'injecting more vibrance and color' would solve this problem. Which leads back to my point about video games and how PC gamers tend to want uniformity.
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nkill20
Member
Both these shots have more shadow than a netflix movie.
CowboyLou
Member
Sure sure, all this is true, but I think we've all seen enough of how the sausage is made to know that it's harder for a single person/core group of project leads to impose their will onto a video game project than it is for a film director. I'm sure I've posted about this in the past. There's so much more going on with how games are displayed and played. There's more slop (as in wriggle room) as to what the true "intent" really is. Do we know how devs color calibrated their monitors? Do we know how they balanced their audio? Do we know what resolutions and screen sizes and distances they were playing with during development? Is poor image quality on base PS5 artistic intent?that would be the director. In movies, he tells the cinematographer the look he's going for and its the cinematographer's job to get it done. In games, that job is the art director's who then works with the technical director to get the look the main director wants. The programmers work under the tech director while the animators, modelers and artists work under the art director and do his bidding who is following directions from say Neil Druckmann. You dont get conflicts if everyone is working on one man's singular vision.
The Star Wars Outlaws guys did a lot of fancy stuff emulating the look of the movie as if the game was shot with a film lens. Same engine as Avatar which goes for a more gamey look.
We know for a fact that some devs don't even consider aspects of presentation that we might unknowingly consider intentional design. Some people like to claim the base console version is the purest expression of intent, but that's as arbitrary as anything else. I've seen enough shitty default settings configs over the years to know that not everything is intentional. SW Outlaws is gorgeous and I don't touch a thing from its default visual/post-processing configuration, but there's plenty of examples of games where the results are less clear-cut imo. And if someone out there didn't like all lens emulation stuff then who am I to tell then they're not enjoying the game properly if they turn it off? I'm a PC gamer at heart so I'm almost always going to fall on the side of "more options are always good, and if you hate all the common post-processing effects (which again, I personally don't) I don't care if you want to turn them off."
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CowboyLou
Member
Hell man, even concept art is just an imperfect realization of the scenes these artists are seeing in their heads.... we can go as far down the rabbit hole as we want.
March Climber
Member
Normally I also would not care and feel the same, but in today's world what tends to keep happening is that publishers and developers are utilizing the playerbase data of 'how many people turned off this effect' which leads to them simply not bothering with it in the next game.
That is the opposite of more options because they're using data to filter things down to what pleases the most people, i.e. uniformity. And it's one of the big reasons that leads to the same complaint from people in nearly every page in this thread, which is 'why don't games look as good as they used to?'...but how can some of them, when all of the effects they have relied on before have been slowly removed over the years? They have almost no visual trickery left to use without people complaining about it or turning it off, proving to the developer/publisher it's not worth the time investment.
It's why you will rarely, if never, get games that look like an evolution of those PS3/Early PS4 titles you all loved, ever again.
CowboyLou
Member
If devs have the balls to not allow players to disable certain options, that's great too. I don't think I've ever gotten up in arms either way. I loved Hellblade 2 for not compromising on that front, but a lot of people were upset over it. I guess what I really meant was I just don't have it in me to tell people they're experiencing a game "incorrectly", because the artistic vision, however people want to define it, is never infallible.
But I will say that personally I'm not too nostalgic for the "PS3/Early PS4 titles you all loved" you brought up. I find it an awkward era overall for game visuals. I think it's some of the excesses of that era in particular that got more people ragging on these post-processing effects to begin with.
Puscifer
Member
The biggest issue is the death of hard lighting. I learned what it was a few years when I noticed that newer movies just look so clean and real, for the worse.
GudOlRub
Member
I do not understand why Ubisoft are doing this. If they showed it to the media yesterday it was obvious it was going to leak, why let leakers reveal everything about this game instead of showing it to us directly?Ac Black flag remake gonna use shadows updated anvil engine can't wait for 23.
Such a strange marketing decision.
It's a far cry from those awesome Black Flag gameplay videos they released in 2013.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I really like the reflections and building textures in Samson. It's a very small open world map, but whats here is very detailed. Game is still very floaty. Combat felt terrible, and driving into things just feels off still. Going to wait for a few more patches before officially starting the game.
March Climber
Member
I hope they keep improving Samson and add more content to it. I think the environment looks nice and we have such little option for open city games today.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
that looks insane for a ps360 game. was this next gen footage? Crazy how they went from AC1 to this in a generation while shipping 4 other AC games lol.
Msamy
Member
Can't wait for tech Break down video like this
Hopefully they show pc or pro gameplay
GudOlRub
Member
It was PS4 gameplay I believe, but honestly the game doesn't look that much better compared to the PS3. It just naturally looks that good.
Even on PC the game pushed hard, I remember it like it was yesterday, on my measly computer AC3 ran at relatively decent frame rates, AC4 did not go past 10 or 15fps. I was both amazed and extremely sad how the game was so much heavier compared to the previous one.
I was really bummed out because naval combat was my absolute favourite part of AC3 and was hyped af for AC4, only in 2015 when I finally got a new computer I was able to play it.
Curious to see how this remake handles smoke. AC4 on PC has PhysX which makes the smoke look incredible to the point where in some fights you can literally lose sight of enemy ships because of it. I suspect the remake might actually be a downgrade in this department in particular.
Grildon Tundy
Member
480p makes everything look more realistic.
Looks like it doesn't auto-translate on here. The caption is: "Believe it or not, this is a mod for Assetto Corsa. Yes, this is a game."
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BlownUpRich
Member
There's this AI-generated screenshot of GTA 6 that was posted yesterday on Twitter and it made the rounds in the GTA fandom Community due to how faithful it really looks, some thought it was a real leak! It retains the GTA 6 look but at a higher graphical fidelity.
I was thinking about how it would look like with DLSS 5 or DLSS 6 (by the time it releases on PC in 2027/2028 probably).
Interesting to ponder about.
Represent.
This may interest you.
I was thinking about how it would look like with DLSS 5 or DLSS 6 (by the time it releases on PC in 2027/2028 probably).
Interesting to ponder about.
Represent.
This may interest you.
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BlownUpRich
Member
You dare change the artistic intent of the developer?
But the final game on the PS5 itself will already look better than that.There's this AI-generated screenshot of GTA 6 that was posted yesterday on Twitter and it made the rounds in the GTA fandom Community due to how faithful it really looks, some thought it was a real leak! It retains the GTA 6 look but at a higher graphical fidelity.
I was thinking about how it would look like with DLSS 5 or DLSS 6 (by the time it releases on PC in 2027/2028 probably).
Interesting to ponder about.
BlownUpRich
Member
Well this one has richer & more elaborate shading I feel, but that doesn't matter, my original thing is this looks extremely faithful.
He is very faithful to the game.
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AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
It only works in dull/cloudy weather. As soon as you put a sunny scape, the illusion breaks and looks gamey. Ride 4 is a 5 year old game and this is how they were advertising it. I just played Ride 6 and it looks like an average game most of the time, sometimes even below average, minus this specific weather setting:
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Grildon Tundy
Member
That's certainly part of the trick. Why is that, though? Cloudy/wet weather helps further obscure detail in both real life and CGI?
The vertical video helps, too, since that's not a format games are typically played in. The camera shake is pretty convincing, as well.
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