Atramental
Banned
I guess he's a troll or just being sarcastic with Fernando Rocker?CzarTim said:
It's late at night and my troll radar needs to recharge its battery.
Anyone ever try suicide?
- Thread starter Icanplaythat
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It's late at night and my troll radar needs to recharge its battery.
Yes. I'd rather not discuss the specifics, but I have been in that non-rational place where self-harm seems like the only viable option. I am bipolar, and have spent most of my life swinging between hypomania and deep, deep depression.
Only when I was diagnosed, and I stopped taking meds that were making me worse and started taking meds that made me better, did I begin to understand how much it has effected my life and who I am.
Only when I was diagnosed, and I stopped taking meds that were making me worse and started taking meds that made me better, did I begin to understand how much it has effected my life and who I am.
I tried to hang myself when I was thirteen. It didn't work, obviously--the thing I'd made a noose out of snapped after I lost consciousness. I spent the next day sort of amazed at how willfully naive teachers were (boarding school), as I managed to convince them the burst blood vessels in my face were an allergic reaction to a face cream and the giant bruise around my neck was a hair-brushing mishap involving a necklace. My roommate (ultimately figured out the deal and Told An Adult a little later, and I spent the next week in a psych ward.
Situation repeated in a less-close-to-death way two years later, and I landed back in another psychiatric care facility. After that I stopped everything self-destructive because as much as I hated my life, being locked up and constantly prodded about my mental state was worse and I was obviously terrible at actually successfully killing myself. I gradually got my life reordered in a way that made it more tolerable, and over the decade plus since have become... I dunno, at peace with living. I'm still not a happy person, but I've gotten good at fixating on the stupid minor joys in life. And having pets really does help--I have a pair of stupid dogs who keep each other company when I'm at work, and the thing about pets is that you can't really rationalize that they'll understand it's not their fault if you off yourself. With people, you can tell yourself a million lies about how they'll understand and move on. Animals will just know you've abandoned them and never understand why.
Situation repeated in a less-close-to-death way two years later, and I landed back in another psychiatric care facility. After that I stopped everything self-destructive because as much as I hated my life, being locked up and constantly prodded about my mental state was worse and I was obviously terrible at actually successfully killing myself. I gradually got my life reordered in a way that made it more tolerable, and over the decade plus since have become... I dunno, at peace with living. I'm still not a happy person, but I've gotten good at fixating on the stupid minor joys in life. And having pets really does help--I have a pair of stupid dogs who keep each other company when I'm at work, and the thing about pets is that you can't really rationalize that they'll understand it's not their fault if you off yourself. With people, you can tell yourself a million lies about how they'll understand and move on. Animals will just know you've abandoned them and never understand why.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Icicle said:
Yes.
way more
Member
When I was really depressed (like, with schizophrenic symptoms) I would have little fantasies about dying. Simple stuff that I never plotted on. Say I was late for class I would think "maybe I'll just walk out in traffic and that will solve it."
Once I started taking paxil those brief fantasies disappeared. As one of the vast majority of people who was made better with medication I feel the need to mention it to counter-act the few but very vocal and dramatic detractors.
Once I started taking paxil those brief fantasies disappeared. As one of the vast majority of people who was made better with medication I feel the need to mention it to counter-act the few but very vocal and dramatic detractors.
CornBurrito
Member
Panzon said:
You could read a few posts up from your post and see exactly what is going wrong in the human brain/body that causes depression.
Fernando Rocker said:
Do some motherfucking goddamn research.
I explained it twice in the fucking thread alone.
DEPRESSION IS BIOLOGICAL IN NATURE.
fatigues_gasolini
Member
Ive thought about, more and more recently.
Probably from me internalizing anger and blaming myself for anything. I try to rationalize it by the fact that im more valuable more dead than alive. My life insurance money could help my family out a whole lot.
I think most of it recently stems from the fact I have the worst girlfriend ever. She cares about no one but herself. Plus we havent had sex in 9 months, which makes me feel worthless. I asked her about it and shes not interested. We are in an open relationship where I can have sex with other women but I never get the chance since I have to constantly entertain her since she has no other friends. She lives with me, so I depend on what little money she gives me to help pay bills.
Im gonna start seeking counseling next week.
Probably from me internalizing anger and blaming myself for anything. I try to rationalize it by the fact that im more valuable more dead than alive. My life insurance money could help my family out a whole lot.
I think most of it recently stems from the fact I have the worst girlfriend ever. She cares about no one but herself. Plus we havent had sex in 9 months, which makes me feel worthless. I asked her about it and shes not interested. We are in an open relationship where I can have sex with other women but I never get the chance since I have to constantly entertain her since she has no other friends. She lives with me, so I depend on what little money she gives me to help pay bills.
Im gonna start seeking counseling next week.
rhfb said:
I don't think all suicidal acts are non-rational. If you're dying of cancer and want to spare yourself and your family the agony, I don't think that's necessarily non-rational. The same goes for extreme dementia, although once it's that extreme you likely won't be capable of ending your life.
I've had to watch a loved one die slowly of cancer. It's every bit as awful and damaging as losing a loved one to suicide.
I'm not as sure about the permanent disability. It's ultimately each person's choice, but most disabilities still leave you the option of living a meaningful life. If said disability leaves you in constant physical pain, I wouldn't think poorly of someone who ended their own life.
CornBurrito
Member
mac said:
Not sure if serious.
Depression isn't rational. Depression causes skewed perceptions of reality. Depression often means that even if you try to be rational it doesn't help ease the emotional pain because the emotional pain is biological in nature.
I mean, they were helpful in that I was angry and I was going to try again if I wasn't locked up in a ward. However, the psych wards aren't really equipped to handle difficult situations like suicide attempts. In both of the true hospitals I was in, they divided the patients into two groups, the high-functioning people and the low-functioning people. The low-functioning people they would just keep in there for a few days, put them on a new medication and then release them to their homes, or more often back to the streets. It's not uncommon to see them shuffled between hospitals, I came to learn. We would meet with our psychiatrists for approximately 5 minutes a day, which, you can imagine, is not an adequate amount of time to make decisions regarding the prescription of these powerful drugs. Almost all of these drugs also take 4-6 weeks for the medication to start working, which is far longer than the maximum hospital stay legally allowed. Furthermore, nothing is done to address the emotional problems that brought people to the hospital in the first place.
I'm doing better now, but I'm not sure if that's just a matter of time, a pair of medications that I've finally found to work well for me, continued therapy on my own, or some combination of all three.
Does that answer your questions?
I'm doing better now, but I'm not sure if that's just a matter of time, a pair of medications that I've finally found to work well for me, continued therapy on my own, or some combination of all three.
Does that answer your questions?
rhfb said:
When I found out Terry Pratchett set into motion the process by which he could end his own life, I was glad. I see nothing wrong with a rational person, knowing what's coming, wanting to go out on their own terms.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Icicle said:
Yes. I'm just not sure if sending suicidal people to psych wards is a proper way to deal with the problem. It seems excessively judgmental and accusatory to send a suicidal person to a psych ward. I would personally advocate a situation where the person is monitored, but also surrounded by loved ones at the same time. Isolation seems bizarre to me.
ThisWreckage
Banned
That hour or two a day should be spent on the doctors spending quality time with the patients. Five minutes is a joke.
CornBurrito
Member
ThisWreckage said:
Are psych wards typically generous with family/friend visitation?
edit:
Icicle said:
That doesn't seem like enough time.
scar tissue
Banned
Shut the fuck up you disrespectful asshole.Vire said:
Some of us may have lost loved ones to suicide.
Also, it's my own life and if I believe I can't get anything worthwhile out of my life, it's my goddamn right to end it. No matter how sad it may make anyone else.
Obvious exception: parent of a small child. You chose to put a child into this world, so you damn well better take care of it.
Note: I am not considering suicide at this point, I'm strictly talking about the ethics.
When I was contemplating future suicide, I wanted to try out suicide by shark. Woulda been something new, for once. Also has the benefit that a trip to South Africa is long enough to regain your senses and abandon the idea of suicide.
CornBurrito
Member
statham said:
Bold statement. Provide a logical argument for why dying slowly of a terminal illness is better than going out on your own terms. Or why it is better to let some degenerative disease slowly destroy your mind than to go out on your own terms.
scar tissue said:
If you talk to suicidal people a common theme is that many feel/felt that they were a burden on others, unwanted, unloved, and that everyone would be better off without them.
Not that I disagree with your statement. Just that suicidal people aren't meaning to be selfish. A lot of them legitimately think their suicide would be a win/win situation.
SpartanForce
Member
I never tried it, but I think about it once in a while. Damn bipolar disease, in control now, but fuck, I wish I haved the augs from Deus Ex in my fucking brain to get rid of this shit.
Most emotions, moods etc including depression and suicidal tendencies are caused by chemical imbalances. Shit, happiness is a chemical imbalance itself, just of... better chemicals. Seeing the amount of people who still hold onto that "suicide is selfish/stupid" shit is getting old. Everyone has bad times, whether we like it or not. Nothing can prevent it. You can't be happy 100% of the time, your body isn't biologically wired that way. This culture of looking down on people who feel down and ostracizing them needs to fucking stop, it doesn't help and if anything, makes people feel worse and more attracted to the idea of suicide. Sometimes shit gets rough and death seems like release. Most people have the thought cross their mind.
In the end, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, in almost all cases. Sometimes, people are just born inclined to be suicidal for one reason or another (disorders, chemical imbalances, etc). It isn't stupid and it isn't selfish, it's often natural. Treating people who think about it like scum does fuck all.
In the end, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, in almost all cases. Sometimes, people are just born inclined to be suicidal for one reason or another (disorders, chemical imbalances, etc). It isn't stupid and it isn't selfish, it's often natural. Treating people who think about it like scum does fuck all.
Personally, I don't think people whose brains work "correctly" are capable of understanding this issue. That's a good thing. It's not something you really want to understand.
There are many biological brain disorders that lead one to a place where suicide seems entirely rational. We pretend that we all live in the same world, but the truth is that everything we see, everything we experience, is filtered through our brains. This isn't metaphorical, it's a literal truth. There is no way to directly experience the world. Every one of our senses are filtered, and some people have filters that place too much emphasis on pain, anxiety, and suffering. Some people have filters that place very little emphasis on those negative emotions. Most people -- by definition -- place a "normal" amount of emphasis on both negative and positive emotions. I think that gulf is largely unbridgeable.
One can understand it in the abstract, but until you've experienced the phenomena first hand, you don't really understand how those filters can alter everything about the world.
There are many biological brain disorders that lead one to a place where suicide seems entirely rational. We pretend that we all live in the same world, but the truth is that everything we see, everything we experience, is filtered through our brains. This isn't metaphorical, it's a literal truth. There is no way to directly experience the world. Every one of our senses are filtered, and some people have filters that place too much emphasis on pain, anxiety, and suffering. Some people have filters that place very little emphasis on those negative emotions. Most people -- by definition -- place a "normal" amount of emphasis on both negative and positive emotions. I think that gulf is largely unbridgeable.
One can understand it in the abstract, but until you've experienced the phenomena first hand, you don't really understand how those filters can alter everything about the world.
scar tissue
Banned
Yeah, 'world is better off without me' does seem like a common sentiment.Obsessed said:
However, when I was thinking about suicide, it was for 'selfish' reasons and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
I was in my own personal hell, and while other people always cared about me, they couldn't help me.
Social phobia is a fucking bitch. I had problems in all parts of my life (university, work, private), it was all a big mess.
Now the cogs are slowly turning to a more fortunate position and it seems it's all upward for now.
Still, I'm 22 and I've never had a girlfriend, or even sex. Actual love is even farther away.
Normal people can't understand how I feel, and everyone tells me I do and say all the right things towards girls. I don't have high standards or anything like that, as long as she isn't grossly overweight and we can have fun together, it's fine.
And I see uglier, nerdier, stupider, psychically more impaired guys with girlfriends all the time. Fuck this shit.
This whole thing is a massive fucking problem, and while I have other things on my mind right now, I know that the moment will come where I will hate myself and the world again.
CornBurrito
Member
besada said:
I half agree with your first statement. They obviously can't understand the feelings from personal experience, but anyone with a modicum of intelligence should be able to look at the evidence and modify their beliefs based on it. I have a hard time believing anyone looking at the evidence could still stick with the "coward/selfish ass" philosophy.
I should probably be less angered at the initial ignorance. I just get the feeling most of the morons won't even bother keeping up with the thread, and will remain ignorant as to what really causes suicidal depression, and how suicidal depression can drastically skewer a person's perceptions of reality.
SpartanForce
Member
Indeed. I have taked every med out there and my view of the world changed many ways. From a grim, dark, pessimist, painfull view to a happy one in one single day.besada said:
You guys should thanks god or whatever for not having bipolar or depression. Shit's insane.
wormstrangler
Banned
disappeared said:
Woah!
I'm not suicidal or depressed but sometimes I have thoughts about crashing my car on purpose to see what would happen.
Alpha-Bromega
Member
Fernando Rocker said:
comfortability literally has NO NONE ABSOLUTE NONE NIHIL GAR NICHT NULLI to do with chemical imbalances in your brain.
i'm comfortable as fuck in my air conditioned house and clean water, i'm grateful for it, still doesn't make me want to get up in the morning
scar tissue
Banned
.Alpha-Bromega said:
if anything, thinking about poor kids with aids in africa actually makes (corr.: made) me contemplate suicide even more.
after all, everyone in the first world lives on the back of poor people, animals and the environment.
if i'm not having any fun or doing anything productive, i am literally a waste of space. a parasite leeching off the world.
i'm fine with me living on the backs of others, but the least i owe them is to have fun in my life and do something with it.
What is so great about existing? the world is horrible, people are evil, nice things rarely happen and if so only to certain people.That's how I look at things. Life itself isn't a gift but a curse. Why would anyone want to live a crappy life? how wonderful is that?
A friend of mine asked me once if I would go to a gun range with him and I told him if I had access to a gun i would blow my brains out. He never asked me to go with him again.
A friend of mine asked me once if I would go to a gun range with him and I told him if I had access to a gun i would blow my brains out. He never asked me to go with him again.
Devolution
Member
Fernando Rocker said:
When you get to that point, or even those thoughts, you're rarely rational enough to think about the good things in your life or how much people love you. It's everything bad compounded at once, and that's all you can think about. You've even convinced yourself you're a terrible daughter/son, girlfriend/boyfriend, friend, lover, whatever, and that people would be better off without you. That's how deep in the hole people get. I've never attempted but I've thought plenty about the act of doin' it. In the end I always think about how much people would actually miss me and how many places/food/things I have yet to experience.
When people talk down to those already depressed about their situation, they're just making that suicidal person feel worse most of the time, not better. When asked, "how can you feel so down when you have it so good" or "why did he/she do that it's so selfish", it's just going to make said depressed person (or other depressed people thinking about suicide) feel even more worthless and down on themselves. At least in my opinion. What has to be addressed is the cause of the depression or anxiety. You have to try to get the person to realize their self-worth, and that can't be done by demeaning them or saying "but you have it so good." It's not a matter of privileges, the high life, or whatever, it's something from within that no amount of money, safety or security can fix.
Also some of the people I know who committed suicide did so because they had some traumas they couldn't overcome.
I did try often back when I used to be a victim of bullying in grade school.
We took the case to the administrators and principal and they said the boys showed no signs of ever torturing me, and their parents said that they were nice kids. So I got no help from the bullies, no teachers gave a shit, and my parents knew I was miserable but we didn't have money to send me anywhere else.
So I put up with hell for a long fucking time, and I think living through all that makes you a much more mature person at a much younger age. Nobody should have to go through that shit, and you can imagine how happy I was when I saw Zangief Kid beat the shit out of that asshole.
We took the case to the administrators and principal and they said the boys showed no signs of ever torturing me, and their parents said that they were nice kids. So I got no help from the bullies, no teachers gave a shit, and my parents knew I was miserable but we didn't have money to send me anywhere else.
So I put up with hell for a long fucking time, and I think living through all that makes you a much more mature person at a much younger age. Nobody should have to go through that shit, and you can imagine how happy I was when I saw Zangief Kid beat the shit out of that asshole.
Devolution
Member
Thoraxes said:
Yeah this one douchebag of a girl made my life hell at this small private school in elementary/middle. Started all sorts or rumors and made it her goal in life to make me the social pariah of the school. Never understood what her fucking problem was but it was a very frustrating time until I moved and found neighborhood kids to socialize and play with. It definitely made me super cynical and negative at an early age.
Ah yeah. I never get what some people's deals are or what the hell their family lives are like that they act that way.Devolution said:
The other thing too was that I was chubby when I was younger, and since I was bullied on and fat, I had no real friends till I joined band in high-school.
I pretty much was alone for the first 12 or so years of my life.
Devolution said:
The tragic thing is, they really are trying to help. They're saying the things they think would make them feel better, but the difference in brain chemistry makes most of it meaningless and some of it actively harmful.
Like most people with a mood disorder, I can't count the number of times people told me to just get over it, toughen up, look on the bright side, let it go, etc. None of that was useful to me, obviously. Much of it made me feel like an even bigger failure.
Now, the longer I'm on my new meds, the less many of my previous actions make sense to me. I'm slowly forgetting how I used to think. And as it happens, those platitudes make more sense to me than they used to. Now I can let things go. I can look on the bright side. All it took was a sodium-channel blocker and a correct diagnosis. Now I can do things that terrified me, but more interestingly, I don't even notice when I'm doing them. It's not as if I've somehow gained the strength to overcome these things, it's that they no longer even remotely bother me.
It happened today at a museum. Before the meds, I would never have done anything to draw attention to myself, because people's gazes had an almost palpable weight. Today I realized I'd drawn a crowd while playing with some kids, but only when a friend pointed it out, because it just hadn't occurred to me to hide myself. Whatever was causing that perception is simply gone. And I look back at those feelings, and while I can remember them, they don't make sense to me anymore. I couldn't explain them to anyone.
The brain is a strange and subtle thing.
wormstrangler
Banned
neojubei said:
Have you tried making the world a better place yourself?
Alligatorjandro
Banned
I hope all of the people that need help can get it.
scar tissue
Banned
The day has finally come where I can agree with a post of Devolution.Devolution said:
Strange times indeed...
I have to add a small footnote tho:
Depression does not always only come from within.
Not having any friends or a girl/boyfriend who care about you can massively spur all kinds of depressive and suicidal thoughts.
Same thing with inadequacies, perceived or real.
e.g. being too small, fat, ugly, not having any success with the opposite (or same) sex, ...
scar tissue
Banned
If you have never been loved/desired as a man/woman and never had sex, you are worse off than 95% of the world's population.Saadster said:
If you do not have any meaningful relationships in your life, you are poorer than the group of hobos down the street.
List can be continued endlessly.
I'd rather live in Africa and be loved than die a first-world-virgin without friends.
Devolution
Member
scar tissue said:
I'd consider lack of friendship and such also a problem with yourself though. But yeah not having meaningful relationships, or strained familial (or none at all) relations can definitely bring on depression as well.
Slurpy2k20
Member
So I just discovered that most of Neogaf is suicidal. Fantastic.
So fucked up.
So fucked up.
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