If there is another console coming out in 2012 (and there will be) there will be more than one "Dreamcast" around.
Rumor: Xbox 3 = 6-core CPU, 2GB of DDR3 Main RAM, 2 AMD GPUs w/ Unknown VRAM, At CES
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If there is another console coming out in 2012 (and there will be) there will be more than one "Dreamcast" around.
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
dreamcast was clearly much more powerful if compared to the competitors available on 1998/1999
wii U could be just "just a little more powerful"
we will see with definitive specs.
Wii U specs are rumored at 1 GB of GDDR3, a 4850 equivalent, and a Tri Core Power PC unit. Believe all you want, but thats not going to give any sort of massive visual leap over current gen.
But Apple seems to be better at it. When Nintendo tried to up their margins to similar levels with the initial 3DS pricing they failed.
I can't see that happening. Even if the "720" releases in 2012 I'd expect it to be at least twice as fast overall as Wii U. Which would be around the same ballpark as the difference between Dreamcast and the other consoles of that generation. Of course, the rest of the market conditions are different, but in terms of specs it will be a similar situation.StevieP said:
You need to take a look at what actually happened to the DreamCast. There's no chance of that.
But the current consoles' limitations are holding progress on PC back. If you're in the: "I'm fine with my Xbox 360" camp you're pretty much cheering for Nintendo's Wii strategy. The Xbox 360 and PS3 today are what the Wii was in 2006. Horribly outdated in the technological department.
4850 and 1GB ram would make current releases look a lot better. Not enough for most people to dump current boxes and spend $300 but hugely better. From what they showed at E3 I have not seen any indication that it is even touching 4850. This is years old tech in any case so even the early kits are going to be pretty final if they don't do a full reboot before next E3. It´s a RV730 at most probably even then nerfed
McHuj
Member
I doubt it's going to have a 4850 equivalent. If it does, it will absolutely obliterate the current consoles in terms of graphics.
Personally, I think five years is too short for a console generation from a consumer and affordability standpoint. The xbox 360 has been on the market six years and it still costs $300 to get one with a hard drive. I don't know if we've accepted that console prices have just gone up, but I still don't think a console can truly hit its market potential until it's under $200.
My other problem is that developers are just now making the best looking 360 games and they might have to throw most or all that knowledge out a year from now. Most new consoles aren't even worth it for the first year or so while at the same time the previous gen is enjoying some of its best new games, a massive back catalog of fat markdowns, and renewed sales at mass market prices. Just look at the PS2 in 2006 and how long it took for that platform to "die" (to be honest I think we got into this console gen a little too early, hardware-wise the 360 wasn't ready yet, Sony was kinda pushed into doing the PS3 prematurely, we don't have many 1080p games yet, etc).
Hardcore early adopters might prefer quick turnarounds and I guess it's fine to have new stuff out for them, but I just hate it when publishers and manufacturers sort of immediately kill off the previous gen right when most people are starting to get into it. Console gens probably should be longer.
My other problem is that developers are just now making the best looking 360 games and they might have to throw most or all that knowledge out a year from now. Most new consoles aren't even worth it for the first year or so while at the same time the previous gen is enjoying some of its best new games, a massive back catalog of fat markdowns, and renewed sales at mass market prices. Just look at the PS2 in 2006 and how long it took for that platform to "die" (to be honest I think we got into this console gen a little too early, hardware-wise the 360 wasn't ready yet, Sony was kinda pushed into doing the PS3 prematurely, we don't have many 1080p games yet, etc).
Hardcore early adopters might prefer quick turnarounds and I guess it's fine to have new stuff out for them, but I just hate it when publishers and manufacturers sort of immediately kill off the previous gen right when most people are starting to get into it. Console gens probably should be longer.
I'm no game developer, but isn't 360 directX based and the next Xbox directX based? Didn't DX11 optimize old DX features with all hardware equal? I don't think you lose everything.
Don't worry, we'll probably have a dark ages of computer tech starting in about 5 years and we really won't need new consoles but for every 10-15 years.
Shin Johnpv
Member
No that would have sucked. I wouldn't have had an OoT3D remake or a Super Mario 3D Land to play. People wouldn't be getting to play a portable Uncharted in a few months.
It's going to be a couple years till that tech is ready for commercial use, and by that point we'll be ready for another hand held generation. If Sony and Nintendo had decided to hold off on the 3DS and Vita, smartphones, and tablets would own the market by then and they would have shot themselves in the foot.
The next round of consoles is an evolution of what we have today. They won't have to hit reset or invent the HD console like they had to do last time. Instead, they can do what they're doing now without the current RAM and GPU limitations. And due to inflation and whatnot $200 in 2000 is probably $250/300 now. We've reached mass market, it's time to move on to bigger and better things. The gaming industry has to keep moving forward it's the only way it can be sustained because that's what they convinced us they are all about.
The reality is, we are reaching a point of diminishing returns in terms of numbers. In order to see a quantifiable leap in graphics, your going to need to amplify the power gains by a huge factor. It's just not there at an affordable and logical price point at the moment.
If you take your logic there, nothing releasing over the next year (or two) is going to do that.
Today Patcher said will be just a Xbox360 review, but the next xbox just in 2014
I want next gen sooner
Not to downplay Pachter, but his job is predicting. He has been wrong in the past and will be in the future. It his just his reasoning plus maybe some sources...
I think he is wrong because I think MS will try to have two consoles in the market at the same time. 1 higher end 399-449 console and 1 149-199 low end system (360).
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Probably.
That last sentence is ludicrous.
It's Luckyman. Check his posting history.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Luckyman is just a troll that no one should pay any attention to or reply to.
Doesn't matter. EDRAM will always be faster on the same process node. On-die wiring will always be faster and cheaper than going off-die, across circuit board traces, and back into some other chip. DDR standards mean jack all to that. It's signals on a wire. Any signaling you can with a dedicated memory chip, you can do with eDRAM just as well, and clock the whole thing higher to boot. Plus with eDRAM, 512, 1024 bit busses are actually feasible. They are absolutely not for discrete chips.
Yes they will bring clocks down, downgrade things compared to PC parts. This is just normal for a console.
Got anything better? Maybe you should label the whole industry and media as TROLLS. Bunch of Nintendo fans who cant face the reality. This is normal too.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Here's your M.O.
Make some trolling claims, some one disproves them, and you never reply or say anything. Disappear for a day or two then come back and make another trolling claim, some one disproves it, you don't reply and disappear, wash, rinse, repeat. I've never seen you post in any other threads besides NextBox rumor ones, and the Wii U one spewing the same bullshit again and again.
Plenty of people have been quite realistic in their expectations and what they say, be it myself, StevieP, or plenty of others. You're the one who declares their wishes and hopes as fact and runs away when proof saying otherwise is brought up.
Place a ban bet.
The ludicrous bit is claiming it will be a downgraded RV730 at best. You're then basically saying the GPU will be 30-40% more powerful then XBox 360's GPU at best and probably slower, which is just short of criminally insane.
Also no it isn't normal at all for a console to have parts downgraded, its normal for them to be modified, which can be an upgrade or downgrade.
maximum360
Member
I'm hoping it's 2012 for the 360. All the new games are obviously hitting visual/technical the ceiling. I really don't see how having a console around for up to 9 years is a good idea.
The technology available today at modest power draws and cost is unfeasible for a leap that would normally be considered "generational". I don't want MS or Sony to half ass this.
We would all win if MS and Sony both launched in late 2013, or early-mid 2014 (hopefully this) with a cavalcade of launch titles that push boundaries.
The biggest lesson to be learned from last gen is you need SOFTWARE on Day 1. Imagine your next gen machine launching with a title like Gears or Uncharted. The developer's have target specs now, and are probably working to maximize what they think it will look like.
People here are bitching for 4 GB of RAM, and I don't blame them. However, I don't want to pay an arm and a leg, and I want developer's to make money.
Launching a new console without killer apps is an old and stupid idea. Uncharted, Gears, Killzone, and Batman have JUST came out. Let those devs work their magic for next-gen Day 1.
Whenever the next Uncharted/Gears hits, thats when next-gen should start. Start it off with a bang.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
the samaritan demo is pretty generational by 2012 itll be feasibile for a console
While luckyman could be trolling, we know so little about wiiu that anything could be possible.
I disagree. The technology available today, at the given power budget established in the current generation, is enough to provide what is traditionally considered a "generational leap" (a ~10x increase in capabilities all around).
THE:MILKMAN
Member
For ~$400?
In order for Samaritan to run in its current form, it requires 3 GTX 580s. With a 6850, you can take shortcuts (720p, take away the insane 32XAA, no Bokeh, and have less complex lighting), but lets be real here, that type of power is just not going to be in your console until 28nm becomes a reality. Current GPU designs are way too large, inefficient, and expensive for you to see a 6990 or a GTX 590 (2 GTX 580s) in your system. Late 2013, early 2014. Besides, 2012 has GTA V, Mass Effect 3, Last Guardian, and Final Fantasy Versus XIII (lol).
I honestly think the Wii U will do nothing to the hardcore market. It will get its fair share of buyers, but it will play out like the Wii versus the HD twins once again if they decide to launch in 2014. Xbox Live / PSN users won't migrate to whatever new system Nintendo implements. Sony and MS could launch a 299/349 that shits Hats on Day 1 if they go for 2013 / early 2014.
1.5-2 years is a very, very long time, and the majority of consumers are more fickle than you think. The reality is anything is possible, though it would require a lot of aggression on Nintendo's part. They'd have to make the right moves.
Probability wise, I agree with you, but regardless, I don't think MS or Sony should take the Wii U lightly.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
you seem to be cutting optimization out of your equation. it was optimized somewhat but not at a console level
and those cuts are perfectly acceptable and i think what most of us are anticipating for the next gen standard (720p/30 fps/mild AA)
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
Oh, you'd be surprised!
The average PC out there is pretty old and has a low-end or integrated graphics solution; gaming PCs don't fare that much better. Not exactly high end.
The ugly side of the Master Race.
We are the 1%!
You are listing good looking games. We will not get an insane leap forward, people have to realize that. We will get higher details and resolutions, including things we saw in the UE demo. In realtime it will be fantastic, assuming it will run smooth at a high resolution with antialiasing. This is what I except from the new consoles. Witcher 2 graphics without any cutbacks. Achievable witht todays tech in "console form" if you know what I mean.
mr stroke
Member
Really? I think people forget consumers have no problem spending money if the product is right. People spend $200 to upgrade their phones every year. I don't know many people that have their same PC from 5 years ago. Cars, iPad, MP3 players, TV's most people constantly upgrade these things and they are all top dollar products.
Stop being such cheap stakes people. 8-9 year old consoles suck.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The thing is... it's really hard to get a game like Gears or Uncharted out day one. There's a reason those games came out a year into their respective systems' lifespans. MS or Sony are not going to sit on finished hardware for an entire year so Epic/ND can work on their game. That's just not the way the world works.
Target specs are ultimately irrelevant until you actually get the real silicon in your hands, and that doesn't come until absurdly late in the process. From what I can tell on Google, final 360 kits didn't ship to developers until September 2005. In other words, two months before the system was released. I'm actually kind of amazed that we end up with some decent games at all.
mr stroke said:
... most of which is dumb (upgrading your TV every few years? Really?). But most people upgrade their phones on contract, which is every 2 years. Are there really that many people who bought an iPad in 2010, and then an iPad 2 in 2011? I certainly didn't. That'd be dumb.
Probably $500 if you want to have some quality engineering and not a launch 360 like situation. But that's now, not in a year or more.
$1billion says MS will have learned from their RROD mistake
The GPU core clocks will be lover definetely lover than RV730 700Mhz. Some said it was overheating so they had to clock to 500Mhz. Maybe it has more SPs to compensate. I think 30-40% is fine with what Nintendo is trying to do here. Which is basically match 360 everyway to receive support but not waste money to go much beyond
it's going to happen man, everyone has learned from the $599 mistake
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