There already is, in various genres along the indie/AAA spectrum, regardless of platform. You just wouldn't know it with all the texture thumping talk around here. The gaming world has already moved on from the raw pixel-pushing mentality; there's just a bunch of people who haven't actually caught on yet.
What will next gen graphics look like?
- Thread starter Shadow of the BEAST
- Start date
There already is, in various genres along the indie/AAA spectrum, regardless of platform. You just wouldn't know it with all the texture thumping talk around here. The gaming world has already moved on from the raw pixel-pushing mentality; there's just a bunch of people who haven't actually caught on yet.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
arguably they would indeed look worse, crysis 2 would have had a much smaller budget as a pc exclusive.
i guess it depends on what generally makes for better graphics
straining the top end cards or production value
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I'll tell you what I want. I want to see a next generation demo/video that blew me away as much as MGS2 did years ago. If I get that, and it's real time, we are in for a great generation.
Oh come on. You CANNOT max out BF3 @ 1080p with a HD5850 with a smooth frame rate. I'm sorry, you just can't.
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The Everyman
if console budgets lead to better engine design/technique use that's less demanding then that's still a boon to the console graphics side of of the debate
Agent Ironside
Member
I definitely agree with this, I feel like this generation has been a transitional one, and that the next generation is where the "true next generation" will come in to play. We'll see I guess.
You can put the floor anywhere you want with PC development. The original Crysis wasn't hurt by not having a console version initially, because Crytek could publish the minimum requirements and tell people to suck it up if their computers didn't meet them.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
Some developers are still stuck in the graphics age of gaming and I think their products are suffering for it.
Chuck Norris
Banned
What, because Uncharted 3 doesn't?
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The Everyman
a 5850 could max it at 720 or play at high at 1080. ultra->high is negligible
if you want to make the case that the high->ultra jump is needed to experience the proposed generational leap over consoles than i sense elitism.
Covering up low res textures with detail maps is not a boon, it's a work around to mask drawbacks. Not really following what games we're discussing here anymore =p but there are other console games with good res textured characters and detail maps, so I'm not sure what debate you're talking about.
Edit:
I thought we were still talking about killzone lol. However yeah, UC3 does use detail maps to cover up texture deficiencies.
That's what I get for playing BF3 and trying to keep up with the thread at the same time. =p
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Yep, I've thought that from the start honestly.
I always though that is what hurt the Dreamcast as I viewed it as an in-between generations console. I know it put out some great stuff, but it just felt like a short lived generation when you compare it's games to God Of War, Halo, Resident Evil 4, etc. Those games felt like tru next generation games coming from PS1, Saturn. Even though the DC was a huge leap it just seemed like it tapped out too early.
I feel like that with every console we have right now, except the Wii, it's still last generation to me. It's not that I'm unimpressed with 360/PS3 it's just that things like 30FPS, Sub HD, etc. It's like we are halfway there, but not quite there yet.
I dunno, maybe I'm drunk.
That is true but I don't think many developers will pull off a Crysis and have a game with so high requirements. However as most PC are more powerful than consoles, those who are developing for PC, and want to both have amazing graphics and target various PC ranges, can have graphics that are higher that what consoles can do. Crysis was kind of insane though. So in a world with more PC exclusives we would have better graphics. Maybe even another Crysis or two (meaning another game that is extremely advanced for the time is released and has extremely high requirements) as an exception to the rule.
This is the kind of generational leap I'm expecting:
From this:
To this:
Anything below that will be a disappointment.
Ever hear of the law of diminishing returns? Mario 64 had very rudimentary polygonal graphics. Today's games are already very detailed, sophisticated and realistic. You will never see such a stark difference.
you can put a floor wherever you want if you're happy to sell an engine first and a game second.
otherwise you have to sell to people on 4 year old computers running integrated gpus.
Agent Ironside
Member
At a very playable 40-45 fps, yes I can. In MP however, in order to get close to those numbers, I have to drop the MSAA completely.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Ps2
PS3
God I wish RDR got a PC port, some AA and AF does wonders.
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The Everyman
alright but at the end of the day the eye doesnt care. the computer scientist might, the person that wants to justify his $600 card might, but the eye doesnt.
the main thing people are arguing about in this thread is whether or not next gen console games will looking better, same as, or worse than current pc games.
Regarding the eye, again that's where ignorance is bliss comes into play. Edit: Just FYI, I'm not calling you ignorant or saying everyone should read into and learn tech.
Said it before, but I see next gen starting off looking like high end PC games today, but evolving into much more as developers dive into the hardware directly.
Chuck Norris
Banned
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The Everyman
alright but looking into the tech wont suddenly make one game look better than another
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Thats the thing the only reason I want better graphics. I mean I will still get my Wii-U and play my nintendo games but shit I like cod, gears and some other games as well the thing is Im getting kinda burnt out on them seriously. I just cant believe sony/ms has the ability to make some new kinda innovation to hardware or game design worth it so that next gen is a must buy. If we have roughly high-end PC graphics as the template for next gen all I can really see us doing is playing assassin creed 9 and Uncharted 6 and shit all over again..do we really want to do that all over again..Why go next-gen at all if you dont change much..Kinect and move wont make me buy a next gen console, I didnt buy them this gen, what makes you think next. Either that or Im getting too old for gaming Im 21 damnit.
Zombie James
Banned
Yeah, I remember everyone saying that in 2005... I don't think many people these days will confuse Uncharted and Gears (and countless others) for looking like PS2 games.
Chuck Norris
Banned
You seemed to be talking in very broad terms, so I thought you were referring to all the textures as deficient. Sorry if I misunderstood
Most games on the PC don't really push the envelope.Keeping this in mind, the thought of the next gens systems being on par with the PC graphically is not that odd.It also doesn't say much considering no one's really trying on the PC.On average it will be on par, but if someone decides to make an actual PC game with PC hardware in mind, it will be no contest.
toddhunter
Member
I don't expect any great leaps forward next gen besides a few select developers and games (you know who I'm talking about). The extra power will be used by most devs to reach the levels of the very best.
Higher resolution and better performance are about as much as we can hope for.
Higher resolution and better performance are about as much as we can hope for.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
If it's all subjective then you can't call one better than another. You just prefer it.
The real advance in graphics shouldn't be taking the base we already have now and applying more resolution and filters to everything. What has impressed me about certain Sony games this generation are the artistic use of effects like motion blur, physics, lighting and animation. If you can refine something like the titans aspect of God of War 3 and get 60 fps at 1080 p with higher resolution textures I'll be happy with where the graphics have went next generation.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
BTW, why are you guys ignoring this?
http://www.youtube.com/user/traktamente
That's real next-gen stuff right there!
http://www.youtube.com/user/traktamente
That's real next-gen stuff right there!
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The Everyman
then this isnt so much ignorance is bliss, it's more like you'd rather know how the tricks are done before going into a magic show.
if you waste time checking to see if the trees are rotated duplicates youre wasting precious gaming time
i welcome shortcuts and clever tricks with open arms
Chuck Norris
Banned
Effects like detail maps can be quite appropriate in certain situations though, its actually one of my favourite effects personally. Just because I recognise it doesn't make it a detriment. Of course using it on the wrong surfaces doesn't work, but just because newer techniques or more intensive techniques have come out doesn't mean it needs replacing. Its like you don't throw out the paint brush because somebody invented the spray can.
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The Everyman
subjectivity comes from figuring out which games look more realistic, arguing the tech is arguing pure specs and of course pcs win there. as for whether or not console games or pc games look better is a different issue
Yeah that's a good way to see it, but when you learn how the magic trick is done, it's less impressive. That's why I used the term ignorance is bliss.
No, I agree, never said detail maps are a detriment. I just find the overall results less impressive when they are used to mask lower res textures. It's most easily scene in those KZ3 pics shown earlier (not to pick on that game).
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
took this out of the Xbox 3 Rumor thread,needless to say I feel the exact same way.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
What about games that don't try to be realistic, like Uncharted (according to some posters, at least).
But the only person that is calling them a detriment is you...
les papillons sexuels
Banned
they're not, it's just that this thread has turned into a pissing contest between consoles and PC withoutactually providing any insight into what the future might hold.
People can use games as yardsticks all they want but the reality is games that are out now don't do much to trend what future games might look like.
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The Everyman
Yeah that's a good way to see it, but when you learn how the magic trick is done, it's less impressive. That's why I used the term ignorance is bliss.
the key here is that you seem to insist that gamers should learn about the tech for the soul purpose of enjoying the graphics less, not for refined tastes, not for a better experience, but purely so they can be more anal and less appreciative of the aesthetics.
thats what im getting from your view
Chuck Norris
Banned
Sorry but what am I top assume you mean when someone posts a great looking screen of Uncharted 3 and your response is:
Metroid-Squadron said:
Was that meant to be taken as a positive?
chrisisawesome
Member
I just bought a $250 graphics card about a month ago (gtx560 ti) and am able to play bf3, skyrim and other maxed out at a high frame rate. Honestly, theres not that much of a difference between the consoles and my pc when i'm not "looking" for the differences. Sure the pc graphics are fantastic, but honestly, if thats the next gen leap...kind of disappointing.
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The Everyman
hmmm uncharted does refrain from a truly realistic look. I guess what the games i listed have in common is that they all border on realism and have a clear artistic target that demands a finely tuned engine or amazing cutting edge hardware. how close or how far these games are from this target determines, objectively, how good they look.
i think that's the best way of looking at it
Pollux
Member
I literally know next to nothing about any of the tech people are talking about...
but...that looks pretty cool
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Uh huh
Are you proving his point?
Well I'm done. Sorry but I don't live in a magical world where a 5850 can run BF3 1080p in Ultra settings with AA & AF with all the post processing turned on and get a respectable frame rate.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
i assume the future of japanese games are going to look like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7s7UyAVbmU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7s7UyAVbmU
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Not really because unless we have access to the main designers to tell us exactly what their target is, we can't say how close they got to it.
If people don't want to learn about tech, that's fine. But then if they start talking about tech they shouldn't complain when others start telling them they're wrong xD
How about neither. That shot was supposed to be an example of hi-res textures equal to those found on high-end pc games. I just stated what was really going on in there. Whether that's good or bad it's up to you.
What resolution are you playing in?
I play everything on ultra and 1080p (60fps), looks significantly better than consoles. As a matter of fact, I had the game running in what would amount to 740p for the first two months I owned it, and finally got it to run in 1080p, that alone was a big jump to me.
How do you get that impression when I specifically said this:
In reality it goes both ways. When you learn about it, you can appreciate accomplishments better, but the flaws or drawbacks also stick out more.
In the end it all comes down to if the topic interests you or not. If it doesn't then there's nothing wrong with not knowing what is what.
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