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[bigdaddygamebot]

I can understand it though. Once you spend a grand or more on a setup to play video games you have to work pretty hard to convince yourself it's worth it, regardless of how marginal the improvement is.

See...and this is where the "master race" is fucking it up for everyone. The hardon they have for better graphics and better performance really does still push the gaming industry.

I'm 100% fine with games staying at the current level of graphics on consoles. It allows devs to put less time on the graphics and instead focus on compelling game mechanics, I.P. and everything else BUT graphics.

Let computers get faster and better and prettier...fine. If I want my mind blown by being able to count how many chin whiskers are on Protagonist X...awesome. I'll use a month of mortgage payments to upgrade my box.

Comments like, "that looks like shit". Drives me crazy. It just doesn't look as good as what it will look like on your fucking time-machine-of-a-desktop.

MOST games these days do not look anything like shit.

 

[KageMaru]

This is the kind of generational leap I'm expecting:

From this:

http://blogofclassicgaming.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/n64_super_mario_64_start.jpg[IMG]

To this:

[IMG]http://www.gamingogre.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/sonicadv.jpg[IMG]

Anything below that will be a disappointment.[/QUOTE]

Prepare to be disappointed.

[quote="bigdaddygamebot, post: 32965156"]
I'm 100% fine with games staying at the current level of graphics on consoles. It allows devs to put less time on the graphics and instead focus on compelling game mechanics, I.P. and everything else BUT graphics.
[/QUOTE]

This is the way it should be, but it's likely any new IP introduced this late will be lost in the sea of games and current trends. This is why publishers like to try to establish new IPs at the dawn of the new generation, where competition (and choices) are far less.

 

[Kinyou]

But is the water truly simulated, or is it like KZ3 using only an animated mesh?

The water in the pool looks very physics based. Don't really know what kind of trick they used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbycT8U73GU

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

This is the way it should be, but it's likely any new IP introduced this late will be lost in the sea of games and current trends. This is why publishers like to try to establish new IPs at the dawn of the new generation, where competition (and choices) are far less.

It doesn't have to be though. It only is like this because of historical momentum and the whole "lol consolez" mentality.

 

[aznpxdd]

I'm a PC gamer through and through, I have a PS3 and 360 as well. I can say this much, there is not near as much of a difference, as there was between PC graphics and console graphics back when this gen started. Games being developed on consoles first has really limited the PC platform, also something else I've noticed, I've had my 5850 for a good while now and for the most part, it runs even the most current of current games on max @ 1080p, the only time I have to sacrifice is with Anti Aliasing, and this is all with a way more than 30fps framerate avg. My point is, when you're able to run current games on max settings, years after you have bought a video card, something is not right, PC gamers are used to having to upgrade at least every one or two years to keep up with current games. Its time for new consoles.

Uh, I don't think you know what "maxing out" means. Because a 5850 can't max out shit at 1080p with a smooth FPS. All the extra post processing you mentioned you are sacrificing is a huge part of what sets PC and consoles apart.

 

[Chuck Norris]

The water in the pool looks very physics based. Don't really know what kind of trick they used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbycT8U73GU

Its no trick, the entire ship is on top of a physics based ocean, which is how they got the effect of the ship rocking back and forth realistically. Drake's animation also reacts to that.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Prepare to be disappointed.

I don't see why I should considering more years have elapsed between this gen and the upcoming gen than the N64 to Dreamcast gen. The leap should be even bigger!

 

[KageMaru]

It doesn't have to be though. It only is like this because of historical momentum and the whole "lol consolez" mentality.

I'm not even sure what you're talking about regarding historical momentum, but the master race is not to blame here. Point the finger at those who put all their time in CoD8 while ignoring other, more original titles on the shelf.

edit:

I don't see why I should considering more years have elapsed between this gen and the upcoming gen than the N64 to Dreamcast gen. The leap should be even bigger!

I really hope you're not serious.

We're not quite there yet, but we're closer now than we were back then at hitting the ceiling to what we can put into these boxes. Not only that, but the amount of advancements between the N64 -> DC are greater than the advancements from 360/PS3 -> DX11. (Though these advancements are large as well, just not quite as large).

 

[Leucrota]

Forget graphics. How about some really good stories and AI that lives up to the term?

That is where the real breakthroughs are waiting to be made. I want AI that is believable.

 

[Kinyou]

Its no trick, the entire ship is on top of a physics based ocean, which is how they got the effect of the ship rocking back and forth realistically. Drake's animation also reacts to that.

By trick I meant that it's not actually rendered as fluid. Afaik hasn't this stuff been in any sort of game yet.

 

[iamshadowlark]

No, this console gen was first that actually affected PC development and actually shader based programming affected console development more at first, then CELL forces programmers to use job-based approach.

Also long dev cycles and really limited resources contributed to create some great and fast algorithms, and thats good.

Not true at all.

The whole concept of a gaming gpu, a seperate unit to process graphics for games was born with the consoles going way back to the apple II/NES days. 64 bit gaming arrived with the Jaguar and even after the N64 it still wasn't standard practice to use double-precision. And lets not forget how the N64 pioneered with Mario(360 degrees of movement with analog vs the grids of before & the first dynamic player controlled camera) and ZeldaOoT(context sensitive actions and lock on). The list could go on and on really.

 

[FStop7]

Err ?

Wasnt impressed by them tbh

Loved Witcher 2 Art. though

BF3 was ok.

I was rather blown away by uncharted 3 and god of war 3 this gen and crysis with mods

jesus christ is every uncharted fanboy really crazy?

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

The water in the pool looks very physics based. Don't really know what kind of trick they used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbycT8U73GU

Probably the camera's angle fault but that looks like the water just clips behind the boat everytime it rocks xD

 

[-GOUKI-]

By trick I meant that it's not actually rendered as fluid. Afaik hasn't this stuff been in any sort of game yet.

i think if they were to render a completely accurate model of fluid, it would just be a waste of resources. Even the scripted water in most games today look good enough.

 

[biggersmaller]

current gen consoles can't handle the textures (ram limits) but I don't see anything there that shouldn't be possible with the next batch of consoles.

They can't do the resolution, lighting, or increased cars/peds. In-fact, it takes a beast machine to run it as it is as ENB isn't optimized at all (nor vanilla GTAIV for that matter). But you mix a good CPU with the right mod, and GTAIV is the best looking game out there.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Not true at all.

The whole concept of a gaming gpu, a seperate unit to process graphics for games was born with the consoles going way back to the apple II/NES days. 64 bit gaming arrived with the Jaguar and even after the N64 it still wasn't standard practice to use double-precision. And lets not forget how the N64 pioneered with Mario(360 degrees of movement with analog vs the grids of before & the first dynamic player controlled camera) and ZeldaOoT(context sensitive actions and lock on). The list could go on and on really.

Now make a list for pc gaming and then we can compare

 

[Chuck Norris]

By trick I meant that it's not actually rendered as fluid. Afaik hasn't this stuff been in any sort of game yet.

Of course not, that is made out of particles, that would be impossible to do

 

[King_Moc]

I'm 100% fine with games staying at the current level of graphics on consoles. It allows devs to put less time on the graphics and instead focus on compelling game mechanics, I.P. and everything else BUT graphics.

I'm glad you weren't around with this attitude in the 1980's.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Not seeing your point here, far cry looks even better in motion than that screenshot I posted.

:O

ok lets try an hd vs hd comparison with fps'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMSEpdVOhqs - pd0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy8nhHj0JVk - farcry

im honestly astounded if you think farcry looks better without a strong artistic preference

 

[whitehawk]

Hopefully facial animation continues to increase, lest we have more of this.

lol that is awful. More like this:

 

[-GOUKI-]

jesus christ is every uncharted fanboy really crazy?

Maybe he has an opinion. Try asking people around you. Who knows maybe they have a different one too.

 

[panama chief]

lol that is awful. More like this:

fuck. never played LAnoire, but you can read the expression on this guys face 100%. is the whole game like that?

 

[iamshadowlark]

Now make a list for pc gaming and then we can compare

Yeah but while alot of tech is first prototyped and displayed on a pc, rarely do you see things spread till its feasible on consoles. Take hdr for example, it was first shown on what a 6800? How many games did you see utilize it before the 360 arrived?

 

[KageMaru]

lol that is awful. More like this:

The results sure are impressive, but the tech is rather limited, at least in it's current form.

 

[whitehawk]

fuck. never played LAnoire, but you can read the expression on this guys face 100%. is the whole game like that?

Yup

 

[Medalion]

lol that is awful. More like this:

 

[alterno69]

fuck. never played LAnoire, but you can read the expression on this guys face 100%. is the whole game like that?

Yeah reading people faces is a very important mechanic of the game

 

[panama chief]

Yup
Sem_t_tulo.gif

Yeah reading people faces is a very important mechanic of the game

im impressed. i hope we continue to get further away from that weird watery jaundice eye-ball shit in uncharted and deeper into whatever tech rockstar is using here. that old man looks distraught and you can see it clearly.

 

[jett]

lol that is awful. More like this:

LA Noire's face tech would be a god-send to pretty much every developer out there with the exception of Naughty Dog. Everyone but them is pretty much talentless when it comes to facial animation. And I mean that in the most literal way possible, nearly every game out there uses solutions that generate lip synching automatically from the audio. Obviously, it looks like shit.

Only downside to the method used in LAN is that you must use the likeness of the actors providing the performance. LAN literally streams video feeds of the actor's performance unto a character model. Even so it's eons better than what we get in something like The Witcher 2, which is frankly completely unacceptable.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah reading people faces is a very important mechanic of the game

I really liked the way they got the facial animations in that game but at the same time I'd really like to see a way to do it without having to map the facial motions from an actual person for every single thing and still have it look that good.

 

[Blizzard]

LA Noire's face tech would be a god-send to pretty much every developer out there with the exception of Naughty Dog. Everyone but them is pretty much talentless when it comes to facial animation. And I mean that in the most literal way possible, nearly every game out there uses solutions that generate lip synching automatically from the audio. Obviously, it looks like shit.

Only downside to the method used in LAN is that you must use the likeness of the actors providing the performance.

And I would almost guess it had something to do with the 30 fps limit on PC and consoles, but I don't know for sure. I guess in theory they could have captured at a higher framerate if that WAS the problem, however.

 

[Noirulus]

I just hope the dev tools are easy to use from the start so that Japanese devs dont fall behind right at the start

 

[KageMaru]

LA Noire's face tech would be a god-send to pretty much every developer out there with the exception of Naughty Dog. Everyone but them is pretty much talentless when it comes to facial animation. And I mean that in the most literal way possible, nearly every game out there uses solutions that generate lip synching automatically from the audio. Obviously, it looks like shit.

I love ND and the UC games, but come on.

Only downside to the method used in LAN is that you must use the likeness of the actors providing the performance. LAN literally streams video feeds of the actor's performance unto a character model. But frankly its eons better than what we get in something like The Witcher 2, which is frankly completely unacceptable.

Lighting is also another drawback of LAN's method.

 

[Pranay]

jesus christ is every uncharted fanboy really crazy?

Are You Fucking Serious ?


I just wasnt impressed by the games that he mentioned which only is BF3. I loved Witcher 2 but honestly wasnt impressed by BF3.

 

[jett]

And I would almost guess it had something to do with the 30 fps limit on PC and consoles, but I don't know for sure. I guess in theory they could have captured at a higher framerate if that WAS the problem, however.

I've no doubt that's the reason for the limit on 30fps. The faces are also the reason the game takes up 20GB.

I love ND and the UC games, but come on.



Lighting is also another drawback of LAN's method.

Nah no come on, all of the facial animation in the Uncharted games is keyframed by hand, and it's clearly a cut above everything else.

 

[Chuck Norris]

im impressed. i hope we continue to get further away from that weird watery jaundice eye-ball shit in uncharted and deeper into whatever tech rockstar is using here. that old man looks distraught and you can see it clearly.

UC3 does a pretty good job with the eyes

 

[panama chief]

UC3 does a pretty good job with the eyes

these look like bullshots(props to the dev if they arent). chloes eyes in that london alley brought me back to the glassy eyed folks from part 2. instantly took away my graphics boner.

 

[KageMaru]

UC3 does a pretty good job with the eyes

http://www.godisageek.com/wp-content/uploads/Uncharted-3-Drakes-Deception-Drake-Scared.png[img]
[img]http://www.gamersmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Drake-Uncharted3-Uncharted3-UC3.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

Yeah don't get that complaint, UC3 has great effect for the eyes. In fact IIRC eyes can get bugged out in LAN.

 

[Pranay]

Next gen uncharted could actually have real gameplay in at AND those visuals.

Uhh Why are We Discussing gameplay here ?

None the less this is height of ignorance .

 

[alphaNoid]

BF3 on PC
Metro 2033 on PC
Witcher 2 on PC

False, next gen is not about higher res, more pixels. Its about new engines, new technology that push what is normal today even on PC.

 

[-COOLIO-]

jesus christ is every uncharted fanboy really crazy?

thinking uncharted 3 and gow look better than crysis and battlefield is perfectly valid. they are amazing games for the hardware

 

[jett]

Yeah don't get that complaint, UC3 has great effect for the eyes. In fact IIRC eyes can get bugged out in LAN.

Your entire face gets bugged in LAN. There are no "eyes" in LAN, it's an entire piece of video that covers the whole face.

 

[Pranay]

these look like bullshots(props to the dev if they arent). chloes eyes in that london alley brought me back to the glassy eyed folks from part 2. instantly took away my graphics boner.

InGame Direct feed screenshot.

Eye looks terrible ?

 

[mickcenary]

I dunno. I think the majority of you are focusing way too much on textures and the amount of assets on screen at once, etc.

For me, a truly next-gen "feel" and look can by achieved purely through better animation, as well as making effects such as high-quality and APPROPRIATE motion blur standard.

Make shit look like the movies and it'll look insane.

To better illustrate, this, to my eyes, looks outstanding and is the direction I want the industry to go in:

http://youtu.be/shZzYkpl5Nk

 

[Emitan]

InGame Direct feed screenshot.

Eye looks terrible ?

I love the subtly cartoonish look of Uncharted.

 

[jett]

I dunno. I think the majority of you are focusing way too much on textures and the amount of assets on screen at once, etc.

For me, a truly next-gen "feel" and look can by achieved purely through better animation, as well as making effects such as high-quality and APPROPRIATE motion blur standard.

Make shit look like the movies and it'll look insane.

To better illustrate, this, to my eyes, looks outstanding and is the direction I want the industry to go in:

http://youtu.be/shZzYkpl5Nk

Does not compute.

 

[delta25]

Some of you guy's are in such denial coming up with these bogus excuses as to why console cant have near or even equal textures to the PC just because they lack in the proper tech.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Some of you guy's are in such denial coming up with these bogus excuses as to why console cant have near or even equal textures to the PC just because they lack in the proper tech.

Again with the detail mapping -_-'

 

[Emitan]

Some of you guy's are in such denial coming up with these bogus excuses as to why console cant have near or even equal textures to the PC just because they lack in the proper tech.

1) detail mapping

2) there's Drake, some wood, and a repeating plant on screen. If a developer can't make an empty environment look good, they're clueless.

 

[Pranay]

I think you have to consider that console games are made to be played on a TV that's 6-12+ feet away from the user.

This is why things like resolution and image quality make less of a difference there than when I'm sitting 1-2 feet way from my desktop monitor.

Resistance 3's image quality is horrendous by my standards when I'm playing at my desk, but it looked fine when I was playing it from a sizable distance.

Nice point which you made, it does make a difference.