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[woo and indeed hoo]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. If this were to believed, then they seem to be talking about 768 megabits of eDRAM (96MB) while those of us saying 1-1.5 gigabytes are talking about system memory. If it had that much eDRAM, we wouldn't be having debates about Wii U's power vs PS360. With it being shared you could have an amount that gives a very nice sized buffer (beyond what we know now), while allowing the CPU to further reduce it's need for the slower system memory.

So what does that actually mean to the less tech savvy amongst us? e.g. me.

I have watched the furore this evening over this rumour but still await a tech aware Gaffer to take it at face value and explicate what it would mean in reality.

C'mon, just for fun, tell us what it would mean!

 

[Azure J]

At the very least, it was nice to see some genuine hype re-ignited in GAF over that rumor.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

So what does that actually mean to the less tech savvy amongst us? e.g. me.

I have watched the furore this evening over this rumour but still await a tech aware Gaffer to take it at face value and explicate what it would mean in reality.

C'mon, just for fun, tell us what it would mean!

As simply as I can put this:

eDRAM is very, very fast because when it is put on the processor itself that is a huge deal. The Xbox 360 has 10 MB. This rumor says the WiiU can have up to 96 MB (assuming the rumor was misheard and they're not saying it's 768 MB, which is insane and practically impossible at present costs). So you see how big of a jump this is. This type of RAM can be used in many ways and developers will be able to push the system far beyond the PS3 and 360 if this is true.

The eDRAM is separate from the normal system memory, which is likely to be higher than it is in the HD Twins (they both have 512 MB) but probably no higher than 1024 MB. This sort of memory allows levels to be larger, geometry to be more complex and nicer textures to be used. A system memory upgrade is a good jump for the WiiU and a pretty obvious inclusion but nowhere near as big of a deal as the eDRAM stuff.

 

[bgassassin]

So what does that actually mean to the less tech savvy amongst us? e.g. me.

I have watched the furore this evening over this rumour but still await a tech aware Gaffer to take it at face value and explicate what it would mean in reality.

C'mon, just for fun, tell us what it would mean!

Hmm. I think that's about as simply as I can put it. There would be no need to debate how close Wii U is to PS360 because it would be a clearly huge gap. Even if the console only had 1GB of system memory it wouldn't be that much of an issue because the dependency on that 1GB would be reduced and handled in the eDRAM. I hope that helps unless you were looking for a different type of answer.

 

[royalan]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. If this were to believed, then they seem to be talking about 768 megabits of eDRAM (96MB) while those of us saying 1-1.5 gigabytes are talking about system memory. If it had that much eDRAM, we wouldn't be having debates about Wii U's power vs PS360. With it being shared you could have an amount that gives a very nice sized buffer (beyond what we know now), while allowing the CPU to further reduce it's need for the slower system memory.

Thanks for answering my question. I'm officially a member of the bgassassin fanclub


Hmmm, I don't know what to make of these rumors. The speculation now seems to be wilder than it was leading up to the Wii's unveiling. I just hope Nintendo learned the importance of at least staying in the ballpark with the competition.

 

[Nin_Fan]

So what does that actually mean to the less tech savvy amongst us? e.g. me.

I have watched the furore this evening over this rumour but still await a tech aware Gaffer to take it at face value and explicate what it would mean in reality.

C'mon, just for fun, tell us what it would mean!

I would also like to know if just for fun this was to be true, what benefit would it give. Are we talking just faster load times, higher framerates, better AA, or better post effects?

 

[Boards of Canada]

Do the specs really matter? As long as I get Nintendo games in HD, I'm more than happy.

 

[Nin_Fan]

You know before all the rumors got started last March, I was convinced that Nintendo was always going to be a generation behind graphics wise just to keep the cost down and the profits high. I guess I was just keeping my expectations in check after they broke my heart at the 2006 E3 press conference. But then we had all that talk about it being way more powerful than ps360 and I got caught up in all the preshow hype. I mean I even started to believe the 4chan rumors. Before all this I was just content with the idea of having a Nintendo system with PS3 level graphics but now I find myself hoping for alot more! Man could imagine how much more awesome E3 2012 would be if Nintendo was able to keep the Wii U under wraps this whole time. Minds would have been blown. Now I fear no matter what Nintendo shows, all of us will have some sort of disappointment even if it is just a tiny bit. I mean come on who doesn't want a Nintendo console with the best graphics and online system out there?

 

[sfried]

Do the specs really matter? As long as I get Nintendo games in HD, I'm more than happy.

I really wish they make BC capable of upscaling/upresing Wii games. Otherwise I'd just be happy that at least it's getting the signal via HDMI.

Still part of me wishes the WiiU would become the "official" Dolphin emulator.

You know before all the rumors got started last March, I was convinced that Nintendo was always going to be a generation behind graphics wise just to keep the cost down and the profits high. I guess I was just keeping my expectations in check after they broke my heart at the 2006 E3 press conference. But then we had all that talk about it being way more powerful than ps360 and I got caught up in all the preshow hype. I mean I even started to believe the 4chan rumors. Before all this I was just content with the idea of having a Nintendo system with PS3 level graphics but now I find myself hoping for alot more! Man could imagine how much more awesome E3 2012 would be if Nintendo was able to keep the Wii U under wraps this whole time. Minds would have been blown. Now I fear no matter what Nintendo shows, all of us will have some sort of disappointment even if it is just a tiny bit. I mean come on who doesn't want a Nintendo console with the best graphics and online system out there?

This is true for anything Nintendo does. It's because they set their own standards, and if they can't even match up to what the industry has, it's not how, but "why in the world should they succeed" that's in peoples minds.

I want to see what they do with WiiU first before making any assesments. I really don't care much for the specs in comparison to other consoles but how they apply it in their system. Will the architecture take into account the U Controller displays?

 

[Nin_Fan]

Do the specs really matter? As long as I get Nintendo games in HD, I'm more than happy.

The specs only matter if you care about 3rd party support. Also would it be nice to see Nintendo's art in ways that would never be possible on the other systems. Sure seeing Nintendo games with PS360 level graphics would be enough for a little while but once the other systems come out and we start seeing awesome effects never before seen in a home console would are going to start wishing they would have added a bit more of everything. The more you have to more you want!

 

[Nin_Fan]

I really wish they make BC capable of upscaling/upresing Wii games. Otherwise I'd just be happy that at least it's getting the signal via HDMI.

Still part of me wishes the WiiU would become the "official" Dolphin emulator.

This is true for anything Nintendo does. It's because they set their own standards, and if they can't even match up to what the industry has, it's not how, but "why in the world should they succeed" that's in peoples minds.

You know this could still happen if tomorrow Nintendo decided they didn't love money anymore. You know there is just too much money to be had with the HD remakes. Why give it to us for free when they can charge us 40 bucks a pop and us Nintendo fan will just lap it up!

 

[Azure J]

Do the specs really matter? As long as I get Nintendo games in HD, I'm more than happy.

I think the reason why everyone's waiting with varying levels of anticipations for the console's specs and eyeing things up is because no one wants a repeat of this generation where by either Nintendo's foresightedness with conservative parts in their system or developer's and publisher's inability to support the system (willingly or unwillingly), the system becomes barren in regards to certain genres of game. At noted quite a few times before, Nintendo using semi-recent tech with more mature processes and development tools around to cater to them means that at the very least, anything that happens in the upcoming generation will be able to show up on Wii U, paired down in one or two ways.

Random question: What did Xbox 360 dev kits look like in the time frame from first info on them to near final/final hardware? If anyone has links to what was inside, I'd be happy to read them. I'm doing a bit of estimation tweaking and accounting for some changes in the kit cycle.

 

[Nin_Fan]

What I want to know is if the system really does turn out to be "just" 1-2x more powerful than the PS360 could that extra power be used up by the OS and rendering to the extra controllers and in the end not look a bit better?

 

[sfried]

You know this could still happen if tomorrow Nintendo decided they didn't love money anymore. You know there is just too much money to be had with the HD remakes. Why give it to us for free when they can charge us 40 bucks a pop and us Nintendo fan will just lap it up!

Exactly. Damned if you do ("They're just rehashin shit!"), damned if you don't ("Dammit Nintendo, where is my Wind Waker HD Remake Special Edition with the three missing dungeons?").

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

As simply as I can put this:

eDRAM is very, very fast because when it is put on the processor itself that is a huge deal. The Xbox 360 has 10 MB. This rumor says the WiiU can have up to 96 MB (assuming the rumor was misheard and they're not saying it's 768 MB, which is insane and practically impossible at present costs). So you see how big of a jump this is. This type of RAM can be used in many ways and developers will be able to push the system far beyond the PS3 and 360 if this is true.

The eDRAM is separate from the normal system memory, which is likely to be higher than it is in the HD Twins (they both have 512 MB) but probably no higher than 1024 MB. This sort of memory allows levels to be larger, geometry to be more complex and nicer textures to be used. A system memory upgrade is a good jump for the WiiU and a pretty obvious inclusion but nowhere near as big of a deal as the eDRAM stuff.

Thank you sir/madam/personage of indeterminate origin, that was precisely what I was looking for.

bgassassin, you have failed me! That was after you were my thread hero too! *sniff*

No, don't worry, I'll be okay *sniff*

I was just looking for someone to put all convention aside and think 'what if it is true?' that is all. We shall know what it is capable of soon enough so let us have some fun in the meantime!

 

[Nin_Fan]

I think the reason why everyone's waiting with varying levels of anticipations for the console's specs and eyeing things up is because no one wants a repeat of this generation where by either Nintendo's foresightedness with conservative parts in their system or developer's and publisher's inability to support the system (willingly or unwillingly), the system becomes barren in regards to certain genres of game. At noted quite a few times before, Nintendo using semi-recent tech with more mature processes and development tools around to cater to them means that at the very least, anything that happens in the upcoming generation will be able to show up on Wii U, paired down in one or two ways.

Random question: What did Xbox 360 dev kits look like in the time frame from first info on them to near final/final hardware? If anyone has links to what was inside, I'd be happy to read them. I'm doing a bit of estimation tweaking and accounting for some changes in the kit cycle.

True but the success of those 3rd party offerings with directly depend on how many people have only have the Wii U and who that customer is. I know that I will have at least 2 of the systems and I will always chose the one that provides the best graphics and online experience. They have to get the momentum going right out the door and build up a userbase that will buy more than 1st party games. I know I will support 3rd parties up until I get PS4. Then you know what happens after that

 

[guek]

the rumor is pretty dubious though. It should probably be discarded from our minds, it's not really worth considering until more evidence comes up to back it.

 

[Nin_Fan]

Exactly. Damned if you do ("They're just rehashin shit!"), damned if you don't ("Dammit Nintendo, where is my Wind Waker HD Remake Special Edition with the three missing dungeons?").

And you know ever since Mario Allstars and the GBA Nintendo loves for us to double and triple dip! I mean I would buy every single one of the HD remakes. I think the SD resolution is reason I can't ever bring myself to finish a Wii game since Twilight princess. Damn it why did nintendo have to make me a graphic whore and then leave me hanging with the Wii generation.

 

[bgassassin]

Thanks for answering my question. I'm officially a member of the bgassassin fanclub


Hmmm, I don't know what to make of these rumors. The speculation now seems to be wilder than it was leading up to the Wii's unveiling. I just hope Nintendo learned the importance of at least staying in the ballpark with the competition.

Well there are factors out of Nintendo's control that will still help it stay in the same ballpark. Cost and heat being the main ones.

Thank you sir/madam/personage of indeterminate origin, that was precisely what I was looking for.

bgassassin, you have failed me! That was after you were my thread hero too! *sniff*

No, don't worry, I'll be okay *sniff*

I was just looking for someone to put all convention aside and think 'what if it is true?' that is all. We shall know what it is capable of soon enough so let us have some fun in the meantime!

LOL. As soon as I gain one I lose one. I tried, but I didn't know how simple you wanted it and even if I did go into more detail he beat me to the punch anyway.

 

[Nin_Fan]

Do you think one way Nintendo could handle the extra controller cost issue is by making a smaller wii U tablet maybe they could use the bottom of the DSIXL screen.

 

[bgassassin]

^ Not a fan of that notion. I'd rather see a cost reduction due to components coming down in price than making it smaller.

Random question: What did Xbox 360 dev kits look like in the time frame from first info on them to near final/final hardware? If anyone has links to what was inside, I'd be happy to read them. I'm doing a bit of estimation tweaking and accounting for some changes in the kit cycle.

Good thing search is back so I don't have to research it again.

The alpha dev kit for the 360 was an Apple G5 that used a dual processor (not core, processor) PPC that was around 2.5Ghz, about 512MB of DDR2 memory, and a Radeon 9800 with I think 256MB of GDDR3.

The GPU then went to a Radeon x800. I don't remember other changes, but I'm sure I could find them if I looked.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Not to mention that the Zelda demo, and the bird demo confirm that as well.

Really, you've never seen a PS360 game that looks better than this?

And as for the bird demo AFAIK there's no direct feed footage/shots so it's probably unfair to judge it too harshly but even then it had some slowdown, had no AI, and looked like this:

 

[MadOdorMachine]

the rumor is pretty dubious though. It should probably be discarded from our minds, it's not really worth considering until more evidence comes up to back it.

The only relevance it has is the amount eDRAM. There's obviously some typos or miscommunication involved. If it's true, it will be huge because the system will be quite a bit more powerful than originally thought. It could be completely fabricated though.

Have we had any other info about the amount eDRAM in the system? The OP looks like it hasn't been updated in quite awhile.

 

[bgassassin]

The only relevance it has is the amount eDRAM. There's obviously some typos or miscommunication involved. If it's true, it will be huge because the system will be quite a bit more powerful than originally thought. It could be completely fabricated though.

Have we had any other info about the amount eDRAM in the system? The OP looks like it hasn't been updated in quite awhile.

Did you read my PM?

 

[royalan]

Exactly. Damned if you do ("They're just rehashin shit!"), damned if you don't ("Dammit Nintendo, where is my Wind Waker HD Remake Special Edition with the three missing dungeons?").

I think this is more of an issue with Nintendo because of their slower development pace and team sizes. A lot of Nintendo fans feel shafted when they devote significant time to remakes not because we don't like remakes, but because with Nintendo's one-at-a-time approach to AAA titles (even when they're not being worked on by the same teams) it feels like they push new IPs or other exciting projects aside just to give us remakes, and I don't think anybody likes that.

That's why I'm glad to hear that Nintendo's going on a hiring spree and expanding. Seems like they're planning to have a steady stream on 1st/2nd party content being produced for the Wii U. In that case, they can give me all the yummy remakes they want since they won't need to interrupt the main pipeline of new AAA content.

 

[guek]

Good thing search is back so I don't have to research it again.

The alpha dev kit for the 360 was an Apple G5 that used a dual processor (not core, processor) PPC that was around 2.5Ghz, about 512MB of DDR2 memory, and a Radeon 9800 with I think 256MB of GDDR3.

The GPU then went to a Radeon x800. I don't remember other changes, but I'm sure I could find them if I looked.

That's interesting to think about. Hey, what about early wii devkits? Weren't those crazy? I mean, hell, those first ones arrived like...back all the way in 2000-2001. Cept back then it was called the gamecube!

 

[Nin_Fan]

^ Not a fan of that notion. I'd rather see a cost reduction due to components coming down in price than making it smaller.

Even if the screen had a higher pixel density? I guess I am just selfish I don't care if the other people playing have a smaller screen I just don't want to have to pay more than 50 bucks for a controller that would only get used when I have friends over. You couldn't see it working, image it like the size of an Iphone screen.

 

[guek]

And as for the bird demo AFAIK there's no direct feed footage/shots so it's probably unfair to judge it too harshly but even then it had some slowdown, had no AI, and looked like this:

The floor demo was an improved build and yes, I think it overall looked better than any current console game.

The lighting in the Zelda demo was superior to anything in current consoles as well. That at least is somewhat backable since it does use effects to a degree current consoles don't.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Really, you've never seen a PS360 game that looks better than this?

And as for the bird demo AFAIK there's no direct feed footage/shots so it's probably unfair to judge it too harshly but even then it had some slowdown, had no AI, and looked like this:

When you look at all of the lighting and particle effects done in real time and in 1080p, yes I would say that it's more powerful than PS3/360.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Lf4uVuE50

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Did you read my PM?

Just checked it.

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

LOL. As soon as I gain one I lose one. I tried, but I didn't know how simple you wanted it and even if I did go into more detail he beat me to the punch anyway.

Not so fast sir! You have not failed me really, t'was merely a sprat to catch a mackerel [as we say amongst these parts]).

I just desired that someone take it at face value and not disregard it due to conventionality.

In other words, what if for the sake of argument, this was true?

I am merely asking for the hypothetical, you understand.

 

[Doc Holliday]

When you look at all of the lighting and particle effects done in real time and in 1080p, yes I would say that it's more powerful than PS3/360.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Lf4uVuE50

Its a tech demo..no ai, 2 characters at a time, a small enviroment, and scripted camera. I think the Wiiu will be more powerful than current consoles but that demo means nothing.

 

[AceBandage]

Did you read my PM?

Friends don't make secrets.
>_>

 

[ugoo18]

Its a tech demo..no ai, 2 characters at a time, a small enviroment, and scripted camera. I think the Wiiu will be more powerful than current consoles but that demo means nothing.

We saw this

We will see something incredible following this.

 

[Gravijah]

twilight princess 2

give it to me nintendo

 

[herzogzwei1989]

After Skyward Sword now, I am pumped for an HD Zelda on Wii U. Too bad it won't arrive until 2014 at the earliest.

 

[Instro]

After Skyward Sword now, I am pumped for an HD Zelda on Wii U. Too bad it won't arrive until 2014 at the earliest.

I dunno, they like to do 2 console Zelda's per gen so I think 2014 is the latest for the first one. I think they could get one out by the end of 2013 or early 2014. OoT was out within 2 years of console launch, WW was out within 1. Depends how far into development they are I guess.

 

[bgassassin]

Even if the screen had a higher pixel density? I guess I am just selfish I don't care if the other people playing have a smaller screen I just don't want to have to pay more than 50 bucks for a controller that would only get used when I have friends over. You couldn't see it working, image it like the size of an Iphone screen.

My astigmatism makes me selfish. I prefer the bigger screen.

Not so fast sir! You have not failed me really, t'was merely a sprat to catch a mackerel [as we say amongst these parts]).

I just desired that someone take it at face value and not disregard it due to conventionality.

In other words, what if for the sake of argument, this was true?

I am merely asking for the hypothetical, you understand.

I would just add to his post that the eDRAM would handle the more memory intensive functions. Game coding would be helped on the CPU side, and on the GPU side (based on Xenos) things like AA and alpha blending so they won't depend on the slower memory. We talked a little while back about the current Wii U specs possibly running BF3 at max at 720p/60. That hypothetical console should make 1080p/60 at max easily obtainable. I'd assume 1GB of system memory would be virtually available only for textures and other less bandwidth intensive functions. But I'm still getting working the kinks out on things I'm relearning, so that's about the best I can do for now. To quote Einstein, “If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

Friends don't make secrets.
>_>

Yeah? Well...

<('.'<)

<( '.' )>

(>'.')>

I got nothin'.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I dunno, they like to do 2 console Zelda's per gen so I think 2014 is the latest for the first one. I think they could get one out by the end of 2013 or early 2014. OoT was out within 2 years of console launch, WW was out within 1. Depends how far into development they are I guess.

True I suppose.

 

[Foil]

I'll be curious to see if Nintendo releases any HD Collections on Wii U. I would likely cave and buy the console just for these.

Super Mario Galaxy HD Collection (SMG/SMG2)
The Legend Of Zelda HD Collection (WW/TP/SS)
Metroid Prime HD Collection (MP/MP2/MP3)

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. If this were to believed, then they seem to be talking about 768 megabits of eDRAM (96MB) while those of us saying 1-1.5 gigabytes are talking about system memory. If it had that much eDRAM, we wouldn't be having debates about Wii U's power vs PS360. With it being shared you could have an amount that gives a very nice sized buffer (beyond what we know now), while allowing the CPU to further reduce it's need for the slower system memory.

96 MB EDRAM on the CPU would be amazing to say the least. That's more than the Wii has in total. That would explain IBM's statement that Wii U CPU would contain a lot of EDRAM.

 

[elektrixx]

I'll be curious to see if Nintendo releases any HD Collections on Wii U. I would likely cave and buy the console just for these.

Super Mario Galaxy HD Collection (SMG/SMG2)
The Legend Of Zelda HD Collection (WW/TP/SS)
Metroid Prime HD Collection (MP/MP2/MP3)

They would do it wrong. They would make it 720p or some shit.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Can one of you amazing tech people that have made this thread a fun read these past few months make a thread explaining how some of this basic tech stuff works and how console hardware works differently than PCs? Cost vs performance, RAM vs edRam vs speed, etc?

It can be a general help thread for all new next gen console discussion.

With the loop/720 discussion and all the previous ignorance earlier in this thread, i have had enough. It would be amazing to spread some knowledge up in this bitch so the level of discussion climbs a bit instead of the one and done ignorant posts that are so common.

It might even get sticky'd

 

[Instro]

They would do it wrong. They would make it 720p or some shit.

Like all the other HD collections then...?

 

[Zee-Row]

I can't really go by the Zelda tech demo since everything is stage and the only thing you can control is the camera.

 

[NateDrake]

I can't really go by the Zelda tech demo since everything is stage and the only thing you can control is the camera.

So should we not expect Project Samaritan to be possible on PC or future MS/Sony hardware either?

 

[Anth0ny]

I'll be curious to see if Nintendo releases any HD Collections on Wii U. I would likely cave and buy the console just for these.

Super Mario Galaxy HD Collection (SMG/SMG2)
The Legend Of Zelda HD Collection (WW/TP/SS)
Metroid Prime HD Collection (MP/MP2/MP3)

They fucking better.

But knowing Nintendo, they'll do something wrong.

 

[ugoo18]

I can't really go by the Zelda tech demo since everything is stage and the only thing you can control is the camera.

The same thing could have been said about the 2 previous Zelda tech demos and we've seen the resulting games.

 

[Black-Wind]

The same thing could have been said about the 2 previous Zelda tech demos and we've seen the resulting games.

Exactly.

Nintendo, unlike other companies, are amazingly conservative with their tech demos.

Just look at the above ... you KNOW they can do something mind blowing if that Zelda demo impresses you.

 

[mrklaw]

96 MB EDRAM on the CPU would be amazing to say the least. That's more than the Wii has in total. That would explain IBM's statement that Wii U CPU would contain a lot of EDRAM.

why would you want that much edam on the CPU? Wouldn't it make more sense on the GPU for post processing/AA etc, where you need bandwidth?