Guardian Bob
Member
Did you ever thing that both might have gotten inspiration from ACTUAL art history?
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Videogame facts that blow your mind (SuperMarioBros. SHOCKING SECRET INSIDE p #70)
- Thread starter Chris Michael
- Start date
Did you ever thing that both might have gotten inspiration from ACTUAL art history?
I think Skyward Sword is probably a bit too new to post about here without spoiler tags, but if any of you have completed the game already and would like to read some interesting links that might improve your appreciation of the game, try these on for size!
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32909736&postcount=28
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32914431&postcount=38
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32918855&postcount=40
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32936264&postcount=95
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32947287&postcount=116
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32948162&postcount=122
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32948606&postcount=129
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32948811&postcount=131
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32953411&postcount=141
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32955448&postcount=143
http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32962888&postcount=156
The forum keeps logging me out whenever I try to quote post 116 from this link, so I'll post it here: the entire Ancient Cistern dungeon is a direct homage to a Japanese short story called The Spider's Thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spider's_Thread
Azure Dream
Member
I wasn't originally going to reply, but seeing this bumped again...
To contribute to this thread a little more, this may have already been covered, but I read it again tonight and it still stuns me:
Shadow The Hedgehog (yes, that game) has a branching level structure, with the next level or boss being decided depending on whether you complete a Hero, Neutral, or Dark goal in the stage.
Every single one of these paths was uniquely named. All 326.
Seriously, why do you do that? Could you imagine the person or persons who had that job, trying to give names to dozens routes that are functionally almost identical?
I like how you actually don't make any point at all, just try to act superior.
Of course it's not a 1:1 trade-off, but at the same time, it's one example of many where they spent extra time that could've been put to better use elsewhere. It's nice to add those details if they have extra time, but the 3DS was rushed to market, they clearly did not have that luxury of time.
To contribute to this thread a little more, this may have already been covered, but I read it again tonight and it still stuns me:
Shadow The Hedgehog (yes, that game) has a branching level structure, with the next level or boss being decided depending on whether you complete a Hero, Neutral, or Dark goal in the stage.
Every single one of these paths was uniquely named. All 326.
Seriously, why do you do that? Could you imagine the person or persons who had that job, trying to give names to dozens routes that are functionally almost identical?
Try changing the links in your address bar to neogaf.com. The login cookie isn't shared between .com and .net
I am pretty sure IS said both the N64 Wars and the N64 FE titles became the Advance Wars and FE6 Respectfully. The previews of the N64 version even had Roy in them.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
You do realize the time/cost difference in making a mario sprite jump and something like a messaging feature, right? I agree with wanting those features, but its idiotic to think that details Nintendo is known for was prioritized over anything.
Azure Dream
Member
Wow, good job manufacturing a comparison I didn't make!
Maybe they couldn't figure out how to accomplish multiple downloads or a cart system for launch. Maybe the whole charms animation, for example, was their way of working around the problem of the 3DS otherwise being frozen while trying to download from the eShop, the eShop that was delivered months after launch, I might add. Rather than implement something simple and utilitarian, they spent time dressing up a feature that, less than eight or so months later, they have to do back and modify or replace to add multiple item downloading. And ultimately very few people want to be staring at that "charms" screen, but there is nothing else you're allowed to do during it. I would rather them focus on that problem over making a nicer download screen.
That was one example, of several different issues with the 3DS as it launched, and even after the initial major update. Their priorities seemed misplaced. They needed to spend more time on the features, and less time on the window-dressing.
KittenMaster
Member
For pete's sake it's probably just something the graphics designer did with possibly some slight direction.
Azure Dream
Member
I'm not just talking about the pegs, I was pretty sure that was obvious by now.
I really am done talking about this, but hey, if people are going to make up aspects of my point to call idiotic, I have the right to respond.
toddhunter
Member
Was not a spaceship with a pilot inside. It was a living being with a dad.
VVVVVV similarly has every screen/room uniquely named, except some of these are actually clever/funny.
Octorockin'
Member
This really blows my mind.
The spider thread going down into hell, the lotus pond, the Buddha statue....all aspects of that dungeon.
IrishNinja
Member
Was not a spaceship with a pilot inside. It was a living being with a dad.
yeah, blew my mind as a kid, but really - Opa-Opa's got feet, so it should be obvious!
So is the game actually called Super Mario Bros. 2: Mario Madness?
Mass Effect 2 and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 have pretty much the same story, with
There were a ton of more similarities but I can't remember where I read this. TvTropes somewhere.
big events occuring at almost the exact same points in the story, one big mission in the middle with teammate collection before and afterwards, and an ending where most of your teammates can die (ME2)/die (KOTOR 2). The endin gwhere your allies survive was cut from KOTOR 2.
There were a ton of more similarities but I can't remember where I read this. TvTropes somewhere.
Alright, here's a point for you. The graphic design staff and programming staff are not the same staff. The person who decided to put a bump on the back of DSiWare game icons is not qualified to address any serious problems with the 3DS. Also, SOMETHING had to go there, either a smooth surface or something else. It's the same amount of effort either way. It's the same with the download screen. Whoever designed that couldn't have actually done anything about the way the downloads are handled. They're separate things. It's a skin they put over the basic mechanical workings so there's something to look at.
So in conclusion and in summary, you are an idiot.
Mass Effect 1 and KotOR 1 also have almost the exact dame story.
Azure Dream
Member
Says the person that doesn't understand programming effort went into the download screen, not just graphics design.
I'm not going to reply any more about this, I'm tired of people ignoring what I write just so they can take assholish digs at my intelligence in some attempt to make themselves look superior on an internet forum. It's a waste of my time, and I've already established my point. If you disagree, I don't care, if you think I'm an idiot, I don't think much of you either. Drop it. Or make your petty insults, I don't really care at this point.
Definitely effort went into creating the GUI. By the guy hired to do that. Not the guys in charge of deciding core features.
Guy 1: "That's a nice looking interface you made."
Guy 2: "Thanks, I put a lot of effort into it."
Guy 1: "It's a shame we have to take out all of the color and make it grayscale."
Guy 2: "Wtf? Why?"
Guy 1: "3DS doesn't have demos as a standard."
Guy 2: "And what does that have to do with what I was paid to do?"
Guy 1: "I dont' know, but maybe if spent less time doing your job and more time adding features to the eShop which isn't your job, nor do you have the authority to do, we wouldn't have this problem."
Why don't you understand that there has to be a download screen either way, so what it looks like is irrelevant to this discussion? Why is it so hard for you to grasp the fact that whether the download screen was a 3D animation or a white bar on a black background with no sound, the download system would be exactly the same? Why can't you understand that the download screen has absolutely no influence on the way downloads are handled, and in fact it's the download screen that is influenced by the download system? Whoever designed that download screen has absolutely no influence over the lack of a download queue or background downloading, and he probably wouldn't even have the skill to address those things even if he was given the ability to do so.
It's like you think the 3DS was built by one person.
What previews? Very little is known about FE for N64 and no media was ever shared.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Holy shit, you're being ridiculous.
Azure Dream
Member
You edited your reply to make a stupid comparison. Fine, one more.
I'm saying the staff MIGHT be more multi-function than you seem to assume. The person who spent all that time making the box that fills up with color as charms swing from the lines and drop in, including the little 3DS shop mascot running around and sometimes getting caught on the line, and being able to tilt that camera limitedly around that box, that's actual programming work that was not effectively spent. It polished a turd, sure, but it's one example of many where they were focused so much on the little details and gimmicky touches, almost to an excess. And presuming they had a limited time and budget for developing these aspects, including the eShop which was already late for months, this was not the best use of their focus.
My point was that something had to go there, and some of the little touches are nice, but they got carried away polishing minor details and things they'd have to go back and replace or modify later. I feel like as a whole, some of those people who did that development work would've better spent their time working on more basic features. I'm not just saying them screwing around with pegs on the back of icons was solely to blame, or the eShop's overproduced download screen, or any one of a dozen other aspects. I'm saying as a whole, for a portable that was rushed, so hard to market, staff time seemed mismanaged.
I am not saying the guy who modeled pegs on the back of icons is the reason we didn't have messaging. But who knows what other tasks he could've been doing while he was trying to figure out what size to make the pegs, what shape, what depth, which icons have them, and so forth. The other work he could've been doing instead may have made someone else's job easier, freeing up their time to work on something more important. The polishing comes when the project is done, and I'd hardly call what the 3DS launched with "finished."
That's as clearly as I can explain it, and if you don't understand my point by now, I don't care. If you don't agree with my point, I don't care. If you just want to quote some tiny segment and make some lame "you're an idiot/I'm superior to you" statement, you're sad and I still don't care. We're way off-topic in one of my favorite topics, and the only reason I've been replying this long is that some people are treating me like an idiot because they think I don't grasp the concept of job roles, and others are just being plain assholes about it. And if you still think that? Yeah, you can guess the rest.
Now please, someone post another cloudbush or something. I want to move on just as much as the rest of you.
"The guy." Can you tell me how big the eShop develoment staff was? Who was on it? What their defined roles were? I've been looking, and I can't locate that information. Maybe I suspect that if they had been given a simpler GUI design to develop and program, that their time could've added to other aspects of the 3DS, perhaps ultimately leading to some improvement down the line over what we received. It's my suspicion they wouldn't have said "Whoops, done early!" and jammed their thumbs up their butts while the rest of the staff toiled away.
*head desk* This is just STUPID. This is not what I'm saying, and if this is what you see it as, you've been misreading.
I'm saying the staff MIGHT be more multi-function than you seem to assume. The person who spent all that time making the box that fills up with color as charms swing from the lines and drop in, including the little 3DS shop mascot running around and sometimes getting caught on the line, and being able to tilt that camera limitedly around that box, that's actual programming work that was not effectively spent. It polished a turd, sure, but it's one example of many where they were focused so much on the little details and gimmicky touches, almost to an excess. And presuming they had a limited time and budget for developing these aspects, including the eShop which was already late for months, this was not the best use of their focus.
My point was that something had to go there, and some of the little touches are nice, but they got carried away polishing minor details and things they'd have to go back and replace or modify later. I feel like as a whole, some of those people who did that development work would've better spent their time working on more basic features. I'm not just saying them screwing around with pegs on the back of icons was solely to blame, or the eShop's overproduced download screen, or any one of a dozen other aspects. I'm saying as a whole, for a portable that was rushed, so hard to market, staff time seemed mismanaged.
I am not saying the guy who modeled pegs on the back of icons is the reason we didn't have messaging. But who knows what other tasks he could've been doing while he was trying to figure out what size to make the pegs, what shape, what depth, which icons have them, and so forth. The other work he could've been doing instead may have made someone else's job easier, freeing up their time to work on something more important. The polishing comes when the project is done, and I'd hardly call what the 3DS launched with "finished."
That's as clearly as I can explain it, and if you don't understand my point by now, I don't care. If you don't agree with my point, I don't care. If you just want to quote some tiny segment and make some lame "you're an idiot/I'm superior to you" statement, you're sad and I still don't care. We're way off-topic in one of my favorite topics, and the only reason I've been replying this long is that some people are treating me like an idiot because they think I don't grasp the concept of job roles, and others are just being plain assholes about it. And if you still think that? Yeah, you can guess the rest.
Now please, someone post another cloudbush or something. I want to move on just as much as the rest of you.
Sweet Jesus. You really have yourself convinced that graphical touches are done at the expense of under-the-hood features. You honestly think 3D modelers are just programmers assigned to a different task. The peg modeling guy could have been working on something else, but that something else would have to be the Face Raiders splash screen or the spinning 3DS Camera icon. (All things probably done by the same few people, since none of them are huge jobs.) The visual and technical sides of software are separate. They are different jobs performed by different people with different skill sets. It's been explained to you about half a dozen times now. Let it click.
The most mindblowing thing in this thread is that there's apparently someone on GAF who don't have even the tiniest insight into how software is made.
Azure Dream
Member
Oh god you won so many internets with that tiny, clever statement. You... you may have won them all.
Go you. I mean it man. Go you.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Nah, I think you'd be really surprised how many people think exactly like that. You see people talking the same way about movies and books and anything else, as in "Yeah, the sets look amazing, too bad they couldn't have spent some of the time they used to make them working on the crappy dialogue."
If you're actually interested in how games are designed, Kulock, you should probably find some resourced to look into it more. And not something ridiculous like trying to track down the names of the people who worked on the eShop (for who knows what reason) but more general stuff on how collaborative works in general are made.
The TL
R of anything you come across is going to be "You are completely wrong."Azure Dream
Member
No, I don't, and if you had actually read my post instead of blankly quoting the whole thing with the predictable "I am so astounded at how stupid you are" bullshit (seriously, you have no idea how far back I expected that "my mind is blown at how dumb you are" line to show up), you'd know that. But no, you ignored my clear point, that there is more than a 3D modeler involved in the example I clearly defined, that I'm talking about how as a whole, there would've been more staff time freed up to work on features that couldn't otherwise be completed (and yes, graphics people would work on graphics aspects, programmers on programming, no shit).
I know how game development works. It was Nintendo's decision that polishing the limited feature set was more important than trying to develop more features with the time they had. Everybody would've worked within their assigned roles and skillsets, I just felt like they did a lot of work on aspects that don't matter, and that that time could've been potentially spent elsewhere. This is not a hard concept to grasp, and I don't necessarily expect you to agree with me, but stow this bullshit about "you don't know how software is made." and "omg ur such an idiot."
Basically, shit like this.
I must simply be wrong, but I could of sworn I saw in one Video Game Magazine in like 2004 show some images taken from a Japaneses Magazine for canceled FE64 in an article about the Fire Emblem Series. . Likely my memory is just going bad.
Wasn't that advanced wars? I have a memory of some tactical game thing too.
EDIT: Nvm, google image search is brining up FE64 stuff.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
You keep it was "Nintendo's decision." That alone is indicative that you don't know what you're talking about. You've simplified the design process too much, and while it's really easy to say "They could have spent time elsewhere," it's not that easy.
As far as the insults go, I didn't mean to offend with my post but you're asking for the mean comments with your ridiculous attitude. How many times now have you said "I don't even about this anymore, end of discussion" and then posted again with another sweary hissy fit of a reply? The conversation is like arguing with a grumpy six year old about whether Santa really exists.
But you don't know how software is made and you are such an idiot. What exactly do you think they should have spent less time on in favour of what? Keep in mind that the staff in question has to actually be interchangeable, and the amount of effort saved has to be reasonably similar to the amount of effort it would take to improve the feature in question. Now's your chance to prove that you know anything about anything. (Hint: The ability to spin splash screens by blowing into he microphone is much, much easier to implement than more robust netcode.)
EDIT: And now we're on a new page, and you've derailed this thread enough with your stubborn ignorance. I'm done. (And unlike you, I mean it when I say that.)
Correctomundo
Member
Can anything save this once legendary thread now?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
We all just need to relax and smoke a little cloudbush.
randomlyrossy
Member
Yeah this stuff doesn't belong here. Kindly take it elsewhere.
British Monsoon
Member
In the Ice Station level from the Carmageddon Splat Pack expansion there are men frozen in blocks of ice dotted around the level, and these guys are the player model 'Ranger' from Quake;
Also, the first level you play on the map is called 'Icing on the Quake'.
Also, the first level you play on the map is called 'Icing on the Quake'.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
More of a tagline than a subtitle.
Version 3.0
Member
Cool little fact. Anyone got a pic without the backpack, then? Maybe a PC mod, or side effect of some "nude patch"?
I don't quite get this. So instead of them adding a couple more verts to make her back look ok, they added even more by giving her a big backpack?
Look! A Pinguin-like Pokemon that looks like Santa Claus and he even has an sack with him.
Its not a sack, its his tail.
But Santa lives at the North Pole. Penguins near the South Pole. I know it's a strech. lol
This is still awesome though.
Sonic Boom:
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Yeah, I noticed that too. I'm pretty sure it is a sack and not a tail, otherwise what's up with the cloth in his hands.
It's a pretty bizarre shape for a bird's tail anyway, but the cloth in its hand pretty much seals the deal on it being a sack.
Edit: Sack confirmed.
You mean Lapland.
The home of lap dancing.
I'm not a native speaker, so as a kid I thought Mario Madness meant Mario's Madness. And I thought Mario being nuts explained many things in the series.
It's a very simple shape. It's likely it required a similar number of vertices as the ones previously in her back.
ResidentDante
Member
What are vertices?