Nobody ever did.
Halo 4 Announced (MS Conf, 2012, Start Of New Trilogy)
- Thread starter Sanic
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Nobody ever did.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Every single Spartan II, not including surviving dropouts, treat her like special adoptive mother. Some folks at ONI didn't her but everyone at ONI has always seemed to hate everyone else anyway.
And the fans as well have looked up her as such. Mother of the Spartans, creator of the Mjolnir armour. Saviour of the galaxy.
The reality is, she was a shitty mother that experimented on and subsequently is responsible for, the murder of dozens of children in cruel, tortuous experiments. She has no moral boundaries at all as proven by her disgusting cloning of hundreds of children and herself. She has no regard for the sanctity or integrity of human life.
Her justifications ring hollow if you attempt to explain her action by way of sacrificing the few for the many - her own selfish justifications explained she does what she does because of her own curiosity.
By co-incidence, her worked saved the galaxy. That was never the intention though.
Bought Cryptum when it first released and i'm just now starting to read it cause Primordium is coming next month
Cryptum Chapter 1 and 2 spoilers(?)
Bleh... I don't even know what i'm talking about...Off the bat, i really dislike that there are Precursors... I'm going into Cryptum with the idea that we're getting a look into the beginning of everything (Halo related). We're starting at the beginning with the Forerunners and a couple of pages in, they're already talking about the beings before the Forerunner. HUGE nit pick but whatever. I wasn't thinking Forerunners were where life began but I also wasn't expecting to be introduced a whole "new" race and from the first couple of pages they're playing a big role...
The AI Translator Note in the VERY beginning of the book blew my mind... I love that little paragraph. It got me thinking about every little description that is in the book. Everything described isn't what we think it is... unless I completely misunderstood it.
The Precursors do serve a particular role in the overall story and I think it allows the Forerunners to be more than just ancient gods with amazing technology. I'm glad they added the Precursors to the mix and hopefully as you read on you might similarly appreciate them.
For fuck's sake, yeah. Halsey whatever is said and done in the books and games is a major character, one that has proved decisive and found the Chief. She's of course gonna get something positive out of it and may just have to go through her little inferno first.
Halsey's story in Glasslands is just a setup to get her into the new game trilogy in a more front facing position.
We got Cortana getting all crazy, and Cortana is basically Halsey.
Halsey has lost everything.
That's very convenient to set something between Halsey and Cortana and not rely on cosmic entities to fix our favorite smart AI.
Plus getting the Chief become like a super forerunner soldier may be cheap, so a little genius by his sides may prove crucial if we want new options/armors for the Chief going forward through the games.
PS: please Frankie, consider James S. a. Corey for a future Halo book. I have mad love for you for making Traviss and Bear books happen. This guy delivers.
FAKE EDIT : what is HALO/SHIELD ALLIANCE 631, Slightly? something UNSC labelled or not?
EXCITED BY PRIMORDIUM EDIT : this gonna be gud.
Didact in my Halo games? Yes, please.
Z
ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
I would say she definitely had a motherly bond with the S2, since that was her life's work. The idea of John and Cortana dying really shocked her to the core and hit a huge nerve. Probably the only time where you actually see her lost control and not have a response like she would usually do.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
It could be argued that Cortana was a vanity project. And, of course, like most of Halsey's work, even Cortana is tainted by her Halsey went about creating her.
Z
ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
Well of course, the AI was created because she couldn't trust anyone else other than herself with her work, and Halsey is a "perfectionist". But the most interesting thing I like about Cortana was how it can show the best nature out of her, when looking at the relationship with the chief, it shows some of her best characteristics. But then again, look at what Cortana did with Ackerson because of him being a "threat" (and amusingly shows her deepest regret on her actions when you look at her captivity with the grave mind). It's a vicious cycle but if it wasn't for that strong nature and immense will, humanity would severely be facing extinction. That's why the extended universe with the novels do such great work on really getting the elephant out of the corner and showing the justifications for with and against, when it comes to humanity and the morality of survival (especially with our checkers history of blood shed and aggression).
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Glasslands spoiler:
Was it always known that
Felt out of the blue for me.
Was it always known that
Halsey is Miranda's mom?
Z
ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
Ever read her journal that come out with Reach? You should check that out if you've not done yet
Monocle
Member
I would second this advice, actually. Glasslands shouldn't be skipped by anyone who's interested in where the Halo series is going. My criticism about Traviss's characterization of Dr. Halsey doesn't amount to a condemnation of all her work. There's a lot of tantalizing info in Glasslands that's best conveyed by the book itself (spoilers don't tell the whole story, I mean to say), and characters like Parangosky and Black-Box are a delight.
Stick with it.Bought Cryptum when it first released and i'm just now starting to read it cause Primordium is coming next month
Cryptum Chapter 1 and 2 spoilers(?)
Bleh... I don't even know what i'm talking about...Off the bat, i really dislike that there are Precursors... I'm going into Cryptum with the idea that we're getting a look into the beginning of everything (Halo related). We're starting at the beginning with the Forerunners and a couple of pages in, they're already talking about the beings before the Forerunner. HUGE nit pick but whatever. I wasn't thinking Forerunners were where life began but I also wasn't expecting to be introduced a whole "new" race and from the first couple of pages they're playing a big role...
The AI Translator Note in the VERY beginning of the book blew my mind... I love that little paragraph. It got me thinking about every little description that is in the book. Everything described isn't what we think it is... unless I completely misunderstood it.
The Precursors
And their tech sounds fucking amazing. Forerunners turned to 11.
one of their cities
Hypertrooper
Member
The first time I read about it was in Halsey's Diary. Or does Ghost Of Onyx say something about it?
Precursor stuff opens up weird perspectives for the games but I was content with Forerunners running the show. I suppose Halo needs to keep a balance between highly stylistic stuff (covenant>forerunner) and coming out of nowhere stuff (flood>precursor).
As long as I don't kill humans while playing as the Chief I'm good with anything.
As long as I don't kill humans while playing as the Chief I'm good with anything.
Bought Cryptum when it first released and i'm just now starting to read it cause Primordium is coming next month
Cryptum Chapter 1 and 2 spoilers(?)
Bleh... I don't even know what i'm talking about...Off the bat, i really dislike that there are Precursors... I'm going into Cryptum with the idea that we're getting a look into the beginning of everything (Halo related). We're starting at the beginning with the Forerunners and a couple of pages in, they're already talking about the beings before the Forerunner. HUGE nit pick but whatever. I wasn't thinking Forerunners were where life began but I also wasn't expecting to be introduced a whole "new" race and from the first couple of pages they're playing a big role...
The AI Translator Note in the VERY beginning of the book blew my mind... I love that little paragraph. It got me thinking about every little description that is in the book. Everything described isn't what we think it is... unless I completely misunderstood it.
I had a very hard time with Cryptum. In the end it left me with a lot to think about, and it adds a tremendous amount to the universe. But I can't say I really enjoyed reading it. It's one of those books that I enjoy thinking back on not for how it was written, but what it was written about.
I'm sure I will. Just didn't expect another race added to the mix. The universe is already too overwhelming for me haha
I think it's the possibilities that kind of disappointed me. Just ANOTHER thing to keep up on. It's the double edge sword of this huge universe.
I'm liking it so far I'm i can't wait to go back a couple of pages and read all of the spoiler text. What didn't you like? The pace? The style of writing?
I don't know if you realize this, but you're the only person who describes Halsey in these absolute terms.
Not even the highest-ranking members of her fan club (and I sure have my membership card) see her as this perfect unicorn Christ figure you keep describing. Halsey not being anywhere close to a saint is what makes her an interesting character.
This never was about her not being worshiped in Glasslands - that would be boring, just like repeatedly calling her a "piece of shit" or "doctor Mengele" is boring. Interesting, less one-sided sci-fi stories about opposing charismatic maniacal sociopaths have been done before, but Glasslands isn't exactly God Emperor of Dune, it's not even Battlestar Galactica.
If this does improve in the sequels - awesome. But right now, I really don't think it's a sign of Halsey fanboyism if someone disagrees with the way her character was represented in Part One.
Some fans thought it was hinted at in FoR after Miranda was revealed. Keyes and Halsey's cover for visiting so many colony worlds was "parents looking for a school for our daughter."
Of course it's far more likely it was just a coincidence.
Re: Slightly Live.
I'll be piggybacking off of what Flipyap said soon enough, but as of now don't have the required time to respond to your post in full. This response right here is to just inform you that I did not ignore your well articulated stance.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I just don't have a problem with it the way some other people seem to do. Some folks have extended the fiction of the book to include Karen Travis herself being hateful and spiteful of Halsey's character and never mind the cries of KT rubbishing canon just because of the way the story is told.
I think there's a line between not liking Halsey's representation and all that other junk and I can only take issue with the junk. The rest is subjective.
No worries, looking forward to your response. I'm deliberately taking a definitive side for the sake of my argument. =)
ToyMachine228
Member
While I certainly am appreciative of the discussion around whether what Halsey did was right or wrong, Glasslands felt one-sided to me. Mendez hated her for what she did, ONI hates her for what she did, the ODST's (who's named I forget already) hate her for what she did...Every single character in Glasslands hates her for what she did. The other side of the argument isn't really present in Glasslands. Halsey is even down on herself despite the fact that without her Spartans, humanity may have lost the war and gone extinct. Now I'm all for weighing the rights and wrongs of every action she took, whether it be the program as a whole, the cloning, the body augmentations, etc. But the argument in Glasslands felt completely one-sided to me. And this is coming from someone who disliked Halsey BEFORE this book. As soon as she kidnapped Kelly in an attempt to cleanse her own conscience, I lost most of my respect for her.
The other element of this is, I feel like they're pushing the sympathy for the Spartans card too hard. I realize that these super-soldiers were kidnapped as children, put through both physical and mental pain of immense proportions, and have no life or real emotion outside of war. I get that. But they're the biggest fucking badasses around. I'm GLAD that these Spartans are around. Because they're too fucking cool to feel bad for to the point where I say, man, these poor people, I wish they never had to live through this. And again, humanity likely wouldn't have lived to see another day without them.
/Rant
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I didn't feel like Glasslands presented an argument. Arguments present two sides around a point or points and Glasslands gives us very biased perspectives through out. This was clearly intentional and I'm glad they didn't shoehorn in some token opposing voice just for the sake of it.
Frankie has already hinted that the Halsey situation isn't done and dusted quite yet and with Glasslands being the first book in a trilogy, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I think the sympathy Spartan card is just that, a card. A card played by Parangosky in the wake of the end of the Human-Covenant war. It's a political move and a public relations gesture and with Glasslands we've only had the chance to see the card played with no real knowledge behind why and the consequences. This and
ONI's involvement with the Elites together with a seemingly resurgent Insurrectionist movement and open weapons black market
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Even though that's from the previews, spoiler that shit. =P
Should I go ahead and create a Primordium topic?
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Halo: Primordium - Book Two of The Forerunner Trilogy by Greg Bear
New topic for Primordium.
=)
You can find all the spoilers on the Forward Unto Dawn forums. =)
Be warned though. Didn't want to post any of them here as it might ruin the book for some folks.
New topic for Primordium.
=)
Done
Also you where informed about the end book spoilers too right?
You can find all the spoilers on the Forward Unto Dawn forums. =)
Be warned though. Didn't want to post any of them here as it might ruin the book for some folks.
So after finishing the book, do you feel Primordium adds substantial backstory to the cannon?
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I haven't read it yet. =P
Ohhh hehehheh, my bad thought you went trough it already.
Holy shit.
Something is very wrong with me.
I am a broken, flawed person.
Spoilers actually get me more excited to read it.
frontieruk
Member
sub'd cheers.
just finished Glasslands, going to re-read cryptum in anticipation of Primordium
higherARC05
Banned
This is my reaction when I finally get to see HALO 4. I know cause I dream about it every night.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I just pray that next E3 we finally get to see what the fuck Bungie has been working on all this time. I was so disappointed last E3.
higherARC05
Banned
I would say a safe bet is a 2013 unveil. Cause Next Gen will arrive years end and I'm sure they are building for those platforms.
I've heard it's a mmofps and others say it's a fps like battlefield.
Whatever it is, it's sure going to be great. But with HALO 4 coming no news from Bungie's new IP will distract me from the megaton that is HALO.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Monocle
Member
That's cute, but I've never heard Traviss direct anything but venom at Halsey, and the latter's characterization in the book speaks for itself. Unless Halsey is treated drastically differently in the sequel to Glasslands, or the author herself gives some indication that she recognizes the character as more than a one-dimensional war criminal, I'll stick with the obvious inference that Traviss isn't a huge fan of our favorite not-quite-good doctor.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Does this sound like venom to you?
Karen Travis said:
Halsey is a despicable character but KT isn't on some anti-Halsey bent. Give it a break.
Based on the Primordium spoilers I have read, it seems to convolute the entire Halo canon to near incomprehensible gibberish. I will wait until I actually read the book, but going back and pretty much retconning preestablished facts to this level is just 'whatever' at this point.
Oh where the hell is Eric Nylund.
Oh where the hell is Eric Nylund.
It doesn't really change anything that was already, rather it provides explanations for why certain things are the way they are when we see them later. These explanations may seem be a bit convoluted, but when you're dealing with ancient, incredibly powerful alien civilizations over a hundred thousand years in the past everything can't be expected to be simple.
Monocle
Member
Well, since you ask, the entire quote has Traviss exploring different ways to equate Halsey with demented people. You can feign blindness to Glasslands' weirdly insistent hostility toward Halsey if you want, but I find it too distracting to ignore. If I could overlook glaring irregularities between canonically continuous books the way you can (you've read Onyx and Glasslands, right?), I wouldn't have remarked on the subject in the first place.
Anyway, I'm less concerned about Halsey's characterization now that Frankie has weighed in on her future significance in the fiction. As long she's not wasted as a trite allegorical device or something, I'll be happy. Hopefully 343's new trilogy will dig into her relation to Cortana. There's potential for a lot of interesting stuff there.
Sometimes I feel that what made the forerunners special was the fact that they were so shrouded in mystery. This certainly detracts from that, but I just go along with it and enjoy it as it happens. It makes Halo feel incredibly different, but that's what their intent was anyway. It's not going to be the same, but it will still be good.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I'm not ignoring anything. I've never denied how one sided the book is. And ignoring canon "irregularities"? Heh, cute.
minasodaboy
Member
The book was written from the point of view of people who weren't exactly Halsey's best friends. Why should their POV be positive toward her? Wouldn't that be more incongruous if they were?
frontieruk
Member
this was the impression I had, and as I'd always felt there was an undertone of distaste towards Halsey from previous books it just felt right.
bobs...onGaf
Member
What about Mendez? He was more of a neutral party in the whole thing, yet even he has suddenly grown a grudge towards Halsey.
frontieruk
Member
Actually in fall of reach there is a hint even he can't take what the kids are going through...
FoR said:
Witnessing painful procedures on the kids would weigh on anyone's mind no?
bobs...onGaf
Member
Its one thing to find it unbearable to watch the kids suffer, its another thing entirely for him to get so aggressive towards the project and the person who had the initial idea. I just don't see how his anger is justified considering he was off making a fresh batch of kids suffer without Halseys input.
frontieruk
Member
Didn't Ackerson base the Spartan III's on Halsey's research? Simple fact is when you don't have things to occupy your mind you dwell on stuff you've done, and at some point even "I was only following orders" won't hold your mind straight when you know you were an integral part of torturing kids, once you get into a morose state like that human instinct is you lash out and Halsey was the lead on the project so I can see why he'd aim his anger for what he's done at her, rather than the Spartans.
She also holds a grudge against him for training the new Spartans and doesn't hide it, so again people will lash out when attacked and the moral choices she made for the project would be a good place shoot for as it'd weigh on anyone.
Syphon Filter
Member
I have a bad feeling about Halo 4. The obvious being no Bungie but i think they are going to casualize it.
Hypertrooper
Member
Didn't they do that already with Reach?
What was so casualized about Reach?
Jack Scofield
Member
how dare more people enjoy this game
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
...what?