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Sony in big trouble with PS Vita, Portable market in perm decline, rotting - Forbes

OP Forbes said:
I argued last week that PS Vita could mark the end of the era of portable game consoles. There is no doubt that Nintendo’s 3DS is going to sell at least 20 Million units globally over the next couple of years. But the portable console market may now have entered an age of permanent, slowly accelerating decline. The true test of the industry is the United States, where consumers are embracing games designed for smartphones and tablets. The possible shrinking of the portable game consumer base would hit the runner-up Sony before Nintendo really gets mauled. The rot sets in first at the periphery.
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Now THAT's a bold expectation. I'm gonna come out with an even bolder one: There is no doubt that GTA V is gonna sell at least 500 units globally over the next couple of years.

Seriously, what kind of clown is that guy?
 
Frankfurter said:
Now THAT's a bold expectation. I'm gonna come out with an even bolder one: There is no doubt that GTA V is gonna sell at least 500 units globally over the next couple of years.

Seriously, what kind of clown is that guy?
Click to expand...

Just some guy on a respected site that knows nothing about gaming, yet some people on this thread take his word as gospel.
 
Duke Togo said:
The battle of perception vs. reality rages on here at NeoGAF. Every major console/handheld has been written off as doomed, only to go on selling and making people money. Carry on.
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Things are a bit different now......especially in America. I just see no market for Vita at all.
 
reading through this thread, i think a lot of the problem is people thinking this is still a tidy little 3-way war between nintendo, sony & microsoft. the fact is it's way beyond that. it's a war of the everything, all the entertainment dollars: your movies, your games, your tv, your books, your music...if you're in denial about that, check out your XMB or your Metro dashboard. Hulu, Vudu, Zune... And really, this is where the gaming industry has been trying to get for years. 3DO wanted to be here. microsoft was trying to get here for years.

it's bigger than games. it's bigger than 300K units, 500K units, 1 million units. way bigger.

that's why the kindle fire references hurt. that's why you want to shit on iOS gaming. but it's here, it's happened. it's old news in fact. stop looking at it like it's microsoft vs sony vs nintendo. we're past that.
 
It doesn't seem culturally acceptable in America for anyone who's older than 13 or so to be walking around with a portable console. Among the younger kids who can get away with it, and Japanese buyers, the 3DS will be more popular.

Not saying that I judge you at all if you play a 3DS in public and you're 20-something, just that this seems to be part of the problem with portable consoles today- especially Sony's attempts at more 'mature' handhelds like the PSP and PS Vita...the concept itself seems doomed to me.
 
Cipherr said:
Check the date of the original iPhone launch, the check the start of the DS handheld gen, then take their current software and hardware numbers for this handheld gen and compare it to the last handheld gen.

If you want to make a statement that its declining heavily, and that its due to phones, and not the normal generational shift gaming ALWAYS goes through, then show me, assuming you can stomach it. But thats not something your going to want to do, because handheld gaming grew in comparison to last gen. So stick to cherry picking the transitional period of consoles, where the past 25 fucking years have shown us ALWAYS leads to declines as a system ages, and is eventually replaced by a successor, and ignoring the 3DS's current success (which is ahead of even the NDS's start) to spearhead your POV. Shit works better that way.

Apples to apples comparisons are avoided by people championing this horseshit for a reason.
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Damn nice post, my friend. I love some of the games on my iPhone, but they aren't a 1:1 replacement for what other systems offer - it's simply another vibrant extension to this varied, fantastic hobby.
 
Barkley's Justice said:
reading through this thread, i think a lot of the problem is people thinking this is still a tidy little 3-way war between nintendo, sony & microsoft. the fact is it's way beyond that. it's a war of the everything, all the entertainment dollars: your movies, your games, your tv, your books, your music...if you're in denial about that, check out your XMB or your Metro dashboard. Hulu, Vudu, Zune... And really, this is where the gaming industry has been trying to get for years. 3DO wanted to be here. microsoft was trying to get here for years.

it's bigger than games. it's bigger than 300K units, 500K units, 1 million units. way bigger.

that's why the kindle fire references hurt. that's why you want to shit on iOS gaming. but it's here, it's happened. it's old news in fact. stop looking at it like it's microsoft vs sony vs nintendo. we're past that.
Click to expand...

Yep
 
ClovingSteam said:
The reason I don't mind spending $300 every two years on the iPhone (I have had my 3GS since 10/2009 and trying to hold out for iPhone 5 but...) is it truly plays an integral part for me throughout the day. Receiving phone calls, browsing the web, email, text messages, Netflix while I am at work, music, etc. The Vita? It's a video game system first and foremost. I am busy until 5:30 when I get home from work, I spend time with the family, and what not, and then have a few hours to play games or whatever. I'm not spending $500 every two years for a few hours daily. I will spend that every two years for 14 hours of the day.
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What sort of differences will warrant you to shell out $300 every 2 years for an Ipod.
 
StateofMind said:
It doesn't seem culturally acceptable in America for anyone who's older than 13 or so to be walking around with a portable console. Among the younger kids who can get away with it, and Japanese buyers, the 3DS will be more popular.

Not saying I judge you at all if you play a 3DS in public and you're 20 something, just that this seems to be part of the problem with portable consoles today.
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http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2011/40/IMG_0419_75959_screen.jpg
 
tzare said:
Even if hw is les powerful than iphone7 games would still look as good or even better than most 99 cents ones on a powerful hw. Just like today.

Sure, there are decent games on smartphones, but it is like comparing tablet gaming with pc or console gaming. Apples and oranges. If you are only interested in those games, vita was never ment for you. It is a useless discussion.
Click to expand...

Except I expected to be interested. I was there day one for the 3DS (bought the Zelda special edition bundle too) but there currently aren't any Sony IPs that are must have for me like Mario and Zelda. I also have an iPhone and just bought an iPad for the family. The Vita for me is like that one purchase you want to want to love but can't figure out why you would love it.
 
Takao said:
PSP's COD came prior to the explosion in popularity that brand faced. It also was a low effort version on hardware that had difficulties providing that genre justice. It's like looking back on the PS2 Monster Hunters and wondering why they didn't sell a million when Tri on Wii did.
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True, but there's a LOT of daylight between CoD PSP numbers and massive system-seller numbers.
 
Medalion said:
I proudly show my 3DS in public
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Good for you, and if I ever see you on the street I will give you a brotherly gaming nod! ..but how often do you see other people with a portable console? How often do you see them messing with their phones (not even including talking)?

I just don't think handhelds have a very safe market, and that it's especially worrisome for the PS Vita's target.
 
StateofMind said:
It doesn't seem culturally acceptable in America for anyone who's older than 13 or so to be walking around with a portable console. Among the younger kids who can get away with it, and Japanese buyers, the 3DS will be more popular.

Not saying that I judge you at all if you play a 3DS in public and you're 20-something, just that this seems to be part of the problem with portable consoles today- especially Sony's attempts at more 'mature' handhelds like the PSP and PS Vita...the concept itself seems doomed to me.
Click to expand...

Kind of a two faced culture isn't it, it's acceptable to game on your Iphone but it is a shocker to game on your 3DS or PSV yet they are categorized under the same banner.


DR2K said:
Vita will bomb, it doesn't have a market anywhere, and it's overpriced.
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*sighs*
 
GTP_Daverytimes said:
What sort of differences will warrant you to shell out $300 every 2 years for an Ipod.
Click to expand...

My 3GS isn't as smooth as the 4S. The screen isn't as sharp the camera stinks compared to mine. Many games while playable are much smoother on the newer hardware. The hardware itself is obviously improved. Many reasons.

because the Vita wouldn't be an integral part of my life I don't have the need to purchase one now and possibly not ever, or at least until the cost is worth the amount of time I'd spend using it. I use my iPhone throughout the day so the cost of upgrading bi-annually is worth it for me.
 
Barkley's Justice said:
reading through this thread, i think a lot of the problem is people thinking this is still a tidy little 3-way war between nintendo, sony & microsoft. the fact is it's way beyond that. it's a war of the everything, all the entertainment dollars: your movies, your games, your tv, your books, your music...if you're in denial about that, check out your XMB or your Metro dashboard. Hulu, Vudu, Zune... And really, this is where the gaming industry has been trying to get for years. 3DO wanted to be here. microsoft was trying to get here for years.

it's bigger than games. it's bigger than 300K units, 500K units, 1 million units. way bigger.

that's why the kindle fire references hurt. that's why you want to shit on iOS gaming. but it's here, it's happened. it's old news in fact. stop looking at it like it's microsoft vs sony vs nintendo. we're past that.
Click to expand...

Content is content, and it is used to sell hardware. Whether it is a song, a book, a film, or game makes no difference - if it represents an experience people want and feel cannot be met through any other way, they will seek it out. People don't only focus on the sum total of possible experiences, but rather on the value of this or that experience to them at this time. My parents bought a Wii and Wii Fit because the combination represented something they valued at that precise time. We - the enthusiasts - are the only people who care about things like potential or whether the Balance Board might be used by other games in the future.

I guess what I'm saying is what I've been saying in the Wii U thread for a while: You are over thinking this.
 
GTP_Daverytimes said:
Kind of a two faced culture isn't it, it's acceptable to game on your Iphone but it is a shocker to game on your 3DS or PSV yet they are categorized under the same banner.
Click to expand...
I agree and I don't want anyone to think otherwise...just pointing out the way things are (in my experience, at least).

Gaming in general has become much more acceptable, as 'all those kids playing their vidja games' are now growing up...but handhelds don't seem to be along for the ride. It's like gaming is accepted now but still restricted to the privacy of your home. You go to someone's house and they probably have a console that they play every day, but you won't know until you see it.
 
it blows my mind that the portable camera, video and music player markets have all been affected by mobile phones and now tablets, and people are still in denial and think portable videogames are immune to that. People act like it's shoddy journalism to state the obvious and tell you that tablets and phones are competing with Nintendo and Sony for consumers' time and money.
 
In New york I used to see tons of people on buses and trains with the DS and PSP, and when the 3DS gets a bigger install base in a couple months I expect to see the same thing. Over here it's not weird to have a gaming console at all.

Besides who exactly are you embarrassed to play in front of, friends who know you, or people you don't know?
 
Not all that grim of a handheld gaming future really, smartphone gaming has come a long, long way. Having said that though, Nintendo is always going to be able to make money with portables
 
Epic have previously ignored the handheld market. Couldn't it be argued that their move into iOS could open up the opportunity to expand into vita development?
 
StateofMind said:
I agree and I don't want anyone to think otherwise...just pointing out the way things are (in my experience, at least).

Gaming in general has become much more acceptable, as 'all those kids playing their vidja games' are now growing up...but handhelds don't seem to be along for the ride. It's like gaming is accepted now but still restricted to the privacy of your home. You go to someone's house and they probably have a console that they play every day, but you won't know until you see it.
Click to expand...

A comedian i was watching said that "Gaming is the largest entertainment industry in the world and we are not supposed to like it?", It's like people are ashamed to categorize themselves as gamer which is just a damn shame. If a person is ashamed to game in public (with a dedicated handheld) in fear of being called childish then i don't think they have a right to call themselves a gamer,
 
Freshmaker said:
Still don't get why people think these markets are in direct competition. They're not.
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I'm not sure how you can respond to his argument without any facts to back it up. Agree or not, he gave examples of how these different industries are in direct competition with each other.
 
StateofMind said:
It doesn't seem culturally acceptable in America for anyone who's older than 13 or so to be walking around with a portable console. Among the younger kids who can get away with it, and Japanese buyers, the 3DS will be more popular.
Click to expand...

I really think this is an outdated sentiment.
 
upJTboogie said:
In New york I used to see tons of people on buses and trains with the DS and PSP, and when the 3DS gets a bigger install base in a couple months I expect to see the same thing. Over here it's not weird to have a gaming console at all.

Besides who exactly are you embarrassed to play in front of, friends who know you, or people you don't know?
Click to expand...
I think people in bigger, metropolitan areas are less concerned about those around them. It makes sense, because you probably won't see the people sitting around you...ever again. In most of the country, the mindset isn't the same. It's a pesky biological thing that's hard to shake unless you live in a very, very populated city. I'd be interested to see handheld sales in more populated areas vs. less populated areas...per capita of course.
 
mrklaw said:
Epic have previously ignored the handheld market. Couldn't it be argued that their move into iOS could open up the opportunity to expand into vita development?
Click to expand...

Well, they've already said they aren't, so there's that. Beyond directly stating it, they haven't even moved to Android yet. I would assume that would be in the cards long before Vita development.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
it blows my mind that the portable camera, video and music player markets have all been affected by mobile phones and now tablets, and people are still in denial and think portable videogames are immune to that. People act like it's shoddy journalism to state the obvious and tell you that tablets and phones are competing with Nintendo and Sony for consumers' time and money.
Click to expand...

Exclusive content that people want and are willing to pay for. How is this so hard to understand?
 
DR2K said:
Alright go buy A Vita, one game, and a 8gb-16gb card. It'll be $400-500 bucks depending on region and tax. This thing is going to be flying off the shelf and into the bargain bin.
Click to expand...

249 + 19.99 + 49.99 = 319.99 + tax = 334.99?

Awesome math skills man.
 
DR2K said:
Alright go buy A Vita, one game, and a 8gb-16gb card. It'll be $400-500 bucks depending on region and tax. This thing is going to be flying off the shelf and into the bargain bin.
Click to expand...
Huh? If you want to argue that it's overpriced, first, know the actual price. Do you think they should be selling it at a loss, selling different and cheaper hardware, giving up the market entirely, or something else?
 
cd-cover.jpg


Eastside, not sold out -
Heaving the Vita Order
wait till price goes down,
Heaving the Vita Order
Famitsu i've just read
and 3DS just got the mo-hunter
No good games comin out
Heaving the Vita Order
Come On!
Heaving the Vita Order
 
The Vita isn't overpriced, but it's too expensive.

Sony's mistake isn't pricing the Vita at $250. It's making a handheld where $250 is the best they can do (and has to be subsidized with memory cards that are overpriced).
 
I dunno what the folks at Forbes are smoking but I'd like some. The waiting list for the PS Vita is HUGE! My friend just got one and had to wait long and hard for it. The PS Vita is one of the best portable devices I've ever held in my hands, calling it godly is an understatement. People here in Japan are lining up for it and the waiting lists go on for weeks. I'd get one if I weren't short on cash.

I dunno how Forbes can claim low sales when the wait list is huge on them, the more logical explanation would be that Sony just can't make them fast enough and with such advanced hardware I'm not surprised.

For the unbelievers amongst you, you should really hold one in hand and play around with it. It's unbelievable.
 
Vinci said:
Exclusive content that people want and are willing to pay for. How is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

Do you read what he wrote? He didn't say "doomed", he said "affected". It should be completely obvious to anyone at ths point that he's right.
 
Vinci said:
Exclusive content that people want and are willing to pay for. How is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

What exclusive content does Sony have? Lets be honest here. They don't have ANYTHING close to what Nintendo has. Third parties are porting games left and right to iOS and while the quality may not be as high as the handheld releases, they're still playable, enjoyable, and dirt cheap. Nintendo is in a much healthier place than Nintendo due to its first party content. Sony with the Vita is trying to be the everything except phone item when in reality they should've aimed to create their own new niche.

Like it or not Sony IS competing with the iPhone, the android phones, the tablets, AND the iTouch's. I just don't see how the Vita can flourish in such an environment. AGAIN, Nintendo while it has been affected in some ways is closer to being immune than Sony due to the 1st party iconic content.
 
upJTboogie said:
In New york I used to see tons of people on buses and trains with the DS and PSP, and when the 3DS gets a bigger install base in a couple months I expect to see the same thing. Over here it's not weird to have a gaming console at all.

Besides who exactly are you embarrassed to play in front of, friends who know you, or people you don't know?
Click to expand...

I use the #7 train a lot, I used to see DS's galore, now on the train you see 80%+ of all people on their phones + smart phones, the rest are music players, and the occasional DS, haven't see a PSP in almost 2 years of riding it

Even kids are playing on iPhones, the parents just give it to them to keep them busy, I mean $0.99 to make your kid STFU and not annoy you for at least 45 minutes in a suffocated (super packed) #7 train during rush hour is a god send

Most of the time the kid is oblivious to it's surroundings, just tapping/sliding away to their hearts desire

That carries over when they start growing up

My perception was Nintendo held dominance in the Age 5-10+ bracket, MS: 11-17+, Sony: 16-18+
Apple came along and blurred those lines, it has done it very well with marketing
You would think MAC's ruled the world, but the picture is more 85% PC (Windows), 15% MAC (iOS), but those Hi I'm a MAC, I'm a PC did wonders for them

Do you see the new commercials for iPhones + iPads, who is it marketed towards, KIDS!
The iPhone 4S commercial of APPS finished by a kid sitting right behind his mommy "Playing and learning"
The iPad2 commercials just shows how kids are in love with it, using it and gaining knowledge

You think parents won't go out of their way to get their kids these items
 
amrihua said:
I dunno what the folks at Forbes are smoking but I'd like some. The waiting list for the PS Vita is HUGE! My friend just got one and had to wait long and hard for it. The PS Vita is one of the best portable devices I've ever held in my hands, calling it godly is an understatement. People here in Japan are lining up for it and the waiting lists go on for weeks. I'd get one if I weren't short on cash.

I dunno how Forbes can claim low sales when the wait list is huge on them, the more logical explanation would be that Sony just can't make them fast enough and with such advanced hardware I'm not surprised.
Click to expand...

And yet it sold 70k the last week...
 
It's always amuses me to see the nitwits who are rich and absolutely clueless. Vita is bringing a whole lot more variety and power than kindle. Why don't they bring up the nook while their at it which is also priced at $249 and much better than the kindle fire. Bah
 
ClovingSteam said:
And yet it sold 70k the last week...
Click to expand...

How do we know it isn't due to supply issues? If this continues longer then we can claim that the PS Vita has flopped. However flop or not, it is a great piece of hardware. The PS Vita has one of the best multitouch screens I've ever used.
 
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