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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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YES!
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
This was a long and close game. We almost lost it about 30 minutes in, but after a really good Vacume ult combo between me and Earth shaker, we were able to hold on long enough and win. The single team fight netted me 2500 gold.
For a while, I was pressing on with next to nothing. I had a Soul Ring, Ring of Basilius, Stout Shield, Boots, TP Scroll, and a random Iron Branch. Started to slow build Vanguard (Grab Ring of Health), then I suddenly came into large sums of money, so I sold my Soul Ring and Ring of Health to get the last bit of gold to get the Aghanim's Scepter. Saved up for a while, after anther good team fight I had enough gold to ensure I could buy back at any time. We got Middle Rax, but Natures Prophet managed to get out bottom, making it much harder to push out. After some more farming and Team Fight, I built a Sheep Stick piece by piece while keeping enough gold to buy back. Game continued on with us defending and pushing a bit when we could, anther good team fight let us take out the T1 and T2 bottom tower (Yes, a T1 tower was still up at 45 minutes), this also allowed our creeps to destory on mid tower, and take the second down to 400.
Having about 5000 gold so I decided to grab a Boots of Travail to ensure I would always have a TP scroll (And I still hadn't upgraded my boots by this time.) Defended a bit more, and decided that the best way to stop taking so much damage when I aggro 15 creeps was to get the Vanguard I forsoke earlier to grab the Scepter. We were able to finally take out Furion at a time he couldn't buy back, allowing us to finally push to win the game. Never had to make use of the money I saved to buy back though.
I forget when I rebought Soul Ring, not a big deal. Good little item, gives him both Mana and Health Regin, and with him having one of the highest Strengths of any Int, it works out pretty well. It allows you to use Vacuum on Creeps to push lanes and not be worried about having no mana later, and just having mana in a pinch. Should likely of took apart the ring much sooner then I did though.
How many pushups is milkman not manning up?
Can your Monitor no handle so much Awesome! Fine fine, I'll make it smaller.
I played that game on the Europe Server. 160 ping, but at that rate its not really noticeable. Its once it gets into 200 and 250 that the ping start becoming a problem, and at 500 when I have life. At 2000, I laugh and then cry as the game freaks out.
Buy Back > Refresher.
But to be honest, with the amount of times I used Sheep Stick, I likely would of been better off with Refresher. The BH wanted me to pick it up (He actually wanted me to get it before Scepter, ha), so I did after enough time. I found it really funny when he for a bit had 3 Battle Furies, but he sold one to make room for Butter Fly. For a while it was Treds, BKB, TP Scroll, Battle Furry X3. Forget what he had before BKB though, his inventory was full but he bought it outright.
To be honest, I have no clue how BH kept up his GPM so high, I never really noticed him farming.
Also, Furion's Items suck for his GPM. Additionally, I swear we never killed the Blood Seeker after he got that Gem.
I'm enjoying Dark Seer, but one issue I have is he has no Burst Damage, and all his Sustained Damage is a bit hard to get off. You really can't do much in a 1:1 other then run, against just about anyone. What do does do is allow for better positioning, and to give mini-Radiance to your Melee carries.
His ult though it just chaos, I need to get better at controlling my illusions though. I'm so glad they start attacking right away though.
His ult though it just chaos, I need to get better at controlling my illusions though. I'm so glad they start attacking right away though.
160 is better than my best ping possible :|
Always get scepter first... don't listen to what anyone else says.
Don't remind me of that ;_;
Unless it was the one where I actually got kills with Blood Seeker, remind me of it all you want!
Togglesworlh
Banned
Heroes I dislike: Chen, Enigma, Pugna
Heroes I like: Dazzle, Viper, Weaver, Venomancer, Tidehunter, Lich, Sniper
Heroes I kind of like but can't figure the fuck out for whatever reason: Tiny, Slardar, Clockwerk, Huskar
I've tried various others but not enough to really form an opinion, like Nature's Prophet, Drow, Razor, Witch Doctor.
Most of the ones I like, I range from decent to what I would consider pretty good at (but the pros would no doubt consider me trash). I feel worthless as Tidehunter half the time, though.
Who should I work on next? HMMM.
Heroes I like: Dazzle, Viper, Weaver, Venomancer, Tidehunter, Lich, Sniper
Heroes I kind of like but can't figure the fuck out for whatever reason: Tiny, Slardar, Clockwerk, Huskar
I've tried various others but not enough to really form an opinion, like Nature's Prophet, Drow, Razor, Witch Doctor.
Most of the ones I like, I range from decent to what I would consider pretty good at (but the pros would no doubt consider me trash). I feel worthless as Tidehunter half the time, though.
Who should I work on next? HMMM.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Hey guys, how does Dota2 compare to League of Legends? I got a copy in a trade, but haven't really played this genre of games until the last couple of days where I have discovered LoL.
Steeper learning curve, more intensive, worse community, all heroes are available forever.
Togglesworlh
Banned
You forgot more rewarding. THIS IS A FACT, NOT AN OPINION. HNNNGH.
It's only "more rewarding" because it takes more effort to do well and become a better player
Togglesworlh
Banned
There's a lot more to it, but that is part of it.
Although, I guess if you really wanted to, you could boil it all down to that. That's being awfully reductionist, though, and doesn't really explain anything. (Neither does my original statement, to be fair.)
Although, I guess if you really wanted to, you could boil it all down to that. That's being awfully reductionist, though, and doesn't really explain anything. (Neither does my original statement, to be fair.)
Dreams-Visions
Member
Understood. I guess I'll keep warming up my skills in LoL and install Dota2 next week or so.
Togglesworlh
Banned
If you're at all interested in Dota 2, I don't really think there's any reason to put it off in favor of LoL, unless you're really enjoying your time with LoL.
* You can deny fiendly creeps
* You can deny towers
* You can deny friendly heroes
* Runes spawn in the river every 2 minutes (Double Damage, Illusion, Haste, Invisiblity, Regen)
* Baron Nashor (Roshan backwards) Gives 200gold to team aswell as a item that grats a second chance at life, instead of a team buff
* Less skill shots
* Different stats system (STR, AGIL, INT, Has dodge)
* Has hero skills that alot of the heroes from LoL are based on eg. Caitlyns ultimate is based on Snipers ultimate
* Completely different items
* No Free teleports to base or towers, they are a one use item every 60seconds
* All heroes available from the get go
* No runes
* No Masteries
* No Summoner spells (Some summoner spells are items like Flash)
* Has a courier system that transports items from base (not free)
Edit: No, I actually don't like LoL's change to randomness, since the only thing that actually changed was the Jungle.
I do like the active of Shurelya's Reverie. Some of the characters also have some nice abilities too. Thats about it.
Also Gez, LoL does have Dodge, it is just highly phased out. I am sure if Jax did not exist, who relies on Dodge, Riot would flat out remove it.
How can you hate pugna? wtf...
Beta. Can be invited by:
friends (if they have extra invites)
hardware survey
contests?
that's about it, I guess
Dreams-Visions
Member
Understood. I'm on it now, coach!
you can also trade other Steam games or Steam trade-able items (TF2 items, Spiral Knights stuff, I guess) OR just buy one from someone with cash.
I've played quite a bit of LoL, and less of dota 2 so far, but it seems to me that the whole 'dota is harder to play' thing is a bit overblown, and I don't think that's the right message to send to new players who may feel intimidated about jumping in.
There is more going on in Dota, of course, with denies and multiple shops and couriers and TP scrolls, but I find the initial laning phase in dota a bit more relaxed and easier, especially as support. In LoL the way abilities scale in power and mana cost mean you can get blown up instantly in the early game if you are matched up against certain heroes and you get slightly out of position.
In dota you almost never see situations early game where you can get completely dominated 1v1, it's not like in LoL where a level 2 nuke does like 30% of a hero's starting HP and only costs 15% of the caster's mana. Its more the opposite, where a nuke starts out doing 15% of a hero's hp and costs 30% of your mana. Basically what I'm saying is that in my limited play time I haven't run into any situations where I push out too far at level 2-3 and get destroyed 1v1. If I push out too far I might get harassed down to low hp, but almost always it's possible to escape in 1v1 situations in Dota because they are going to run out of mana. In fact it's possible to escape in most situations in dota if the people chasing you don't have crowd control ready.
So dota has a higher skill cap because of the sheer amount of things going on, but I actually think it might be easier for new players to get started without getting frustrated because they don't run out into their lane and immediately get destroyed 1v1 without even a chance to escape.
I also think it is easier to play support effectively without any gold and being underleveled than it is in LoL, which is a nice entry point for beginners. In Dota you can make a huge difference in a team fight as a support by just getting off one ability, you can have no items and be 5 levels below the carries, but you can still turn a fight around.
Yeah, the core game is there. There are a few minor map changes (There are far to many topic on the Dota 2 Dev Fourms over trees being removed/added), some things don't work exactly the same yet, and the game only has 60 of the Heroes Implemented so far, but its Dota all right.
Oh yeah, that reminds me of the biggest diffrence between LoL and Dota that most people seem to overlook, Mana Management. Heroes in Dota have less Mana, and their spells tend to cost more, so it is very hard to keep spamming. There are heroes's like Sven, which one of his two Signiture Abilities is a fairly long range target AOE Stun. This costs 140 mana at all levels. Sven at level 1 without items has 182 Mana, and a Regen rate of .6 Mana per second, so even with items (Mana Pots, some items to increase his mana pool/regin rate), you just can't use the stun very often early game.
Also, it should be noted there is no items that give Cool Down Reduction (There are a few Heros who have passive abilites that work like Cool Down Reduction, like Death Prophet), there is only one branch of Magic Resistance Items, there is no way to Scale Basic Spells with items, there is no Armor or Magic Penetration (There are items and abilites that can reduce the values though. Lots of Armor Debuffs, few things that can make magic do more damage). Also, you can level up stats directly, and the level cap is 25.
Have they added new items and do all the heroes play the same? Or have they changed up the abilities for some?
Mostly cause people don't understand how to use him!
For the dude trying to swap from LoL, you may want to check this website out
LoL -> Dota differences
Right now Exactly the Same as Dota 1, except a few less Heroes. At the moment, it is more or less "Dota HD, Now with Match Making Edition", but that isn't a bad thing. Valve says they don't even think the game will be "done" for about a year that last time they spoke off it.
There needs to be some button so I can play this Video in game on command:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR9OY8Nh1NM&feature=related
Also, I wonder how Valve will start Implementing Cosmetic items into the game. The best way would likely to give people a few, and have some TF2 items be wearable like Portal 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR9OY8Nh1NM&feature=related
Also, I wonder how Valve will start Implementing Cosmetic items into the game. The best way would likely to give people a few, and have some TF2 items be wearable like Portal 2.
I like pugna but he's pretty hard to use effectively.
Pushing machine though.
I mean just look at Lion and Lina, their ult deals some 450-500 damage at level 6. You'd be hard pressed to find AP heroes that can do 500 damage in a single spell, much less at level 6 and without any items/runes/masteries. This is not even taking into account how easy it is to get HP and MR (which only exists on a single item line in DOTA).
Pushing machine though.
I firmly disagree. In fact, I feel the exact opposite. DOTA is hard to get into precisely because level 3 nukes will take out half your hp and leave you stunned for 2 seconds, where as LoL nukes will do a smidgen of damage, only slow, and you'll still have flash or ghost to bail out. Or you can get zoned really hard and outdenied, severely impairing your EXP gain.
I mean just look at Lion and Lina, their ult deals some 450-500 damage at level 6. You'd be hard pressed to find AP heroes that can do 500 damage in a single spell, much less at level 6 and without any items/runes/masteries. This is not even taking into account how easy it is to get HP and MR (which only exists on a single item line in DOTA).
hahaha that was hilarious. Seriously though how come there are so many Russians on the NA servers?
I played League since its release, and I have to say getting back into Dota one of the hardest things for me to adjust to is how many active ability items there are. League has maybe a handful of items that really change up how a battle plays out, where as in Dota it seems like almost every mid-high level item grants you an entirely new ability.
While its not an active item, there's also that scepter which boosts/changes ults for certain units.
While its not an active item, there's also that scepter which boosts/changes ults for certain units.
they probably cracked the game
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Vilat (spelling?) gave a bunch of keys out during the tournament in Kiev. Like 200+
Get the scepter on Lich, and you're godlike :O
THough not entirely godlike in this match, I did pretty good considering I was soloing mid lane most of the damn match :lol
I did go to team fights a lot more often than I used to, and I got 18 assists
I will say as someone who likes to play the same role in both games(tanky support/initiation) I have not found this to be the case in the early game..
Why are you bringing up ultimates when I'm talking about levels 2-4, you are also completely ignoring the differences in mana costs and mana regen.
I don't think there are any true single target nuke ultimates like Lion or Lina in LoL, they are typically AOEs or long stuns or do other things. Annie's ultimate tibbers is every bit as powerful as those two though. a 200 damage aoe nuke + a 45 second summon that does 80 attack damage and 35 DPS in an aoe. Karthus's ult does 250 to every enemy on the map. Ezreal's does aoe damage in a line, starting at 350 and decreasing with every enemy it hits. All of those are roughly comparable IMO.
But again, none of the specifics really matter if the heroes don't even have enough mana to make it through a single rotation of their abilities at low level. All I know is when I play Tidehunter I am perfectly safe going out in front of my creep wave and zoning off the enemies in my lane prior to level 6, even when they are big nukers like lina and lion. There simply is no way they can kill me before I can retreat. Meanwhile if I'm playing Alistar, I would be terrified do the same thing if there was an Annie or a Ryze or a Morgana in the lane. Granted those lane matchups rarely happen in either game, but that's not the point.
Although I don't play LoL, except for Dominion. I'd imagine if you ran up to a decent Lion or Lina, you'd just get stunned and kited while they auto attack you down. So you may zone them out, but you'd in turn burn through your consumables at a faster rate then normal, essentially losing your lane attempting to zone them. Eventually you'd die, because in the time it takes you to close the distance between the creep wave and them, even with gush assistance as Tide, you've eaten a stun, and 4-5 auto attacks.
I don't really want to do this so I'll just pick out two points to address.
One, you use Tidehunter as an example, the most sturdy tank in the early game. Trying that shit with Lich or CM is just not going to fly.
Second, Alistar has both a targeted knockback, an AoE stun, as well as a spammable low heal. His laning power is significantly higher than most DOTA strength heroes. If you're somehow getting pushed out of your lane with Ali, you are probably doing it wrong.
One, you use Tidehunter as an example, the most sturdy tank in the early game. Trying that shit with Lich or CM is just not going to fly.
Second, Alistar has both a targeted knockback, an AoE stun, as well as a spammable low heal. His laning power is significantly higher than most DOTA strength heroes. If you're somehow getting pushed out of your lane with Ali, you are probably doing it wrong.
Oh I'm not saying it would be the ideal way to play them, or that I would win the lane by doing that.
I'm just saying if I did that in LoL I would straight up die, if I do it in Dota, I can relatively easily retreat to safety. There is a difference in the initial new player experience between 'Oh damn, I went out too far and they knocked my hp down so I have to spend gold on a potion or run back to the fountain and lose out on some XP so now I'm at a disadvantage in lane' and 'Oh damn I went out too far and got blown the fuck up, this game sucks'. This is exacerbated by the fact that you don't get flash till level 12 in LoL, so a new player is going to be extra screwed when it comes to retreating if they push out too far. Retreating from a fight in LoL without flash is nearly impossible.
What.
There are SIGNIFICANTLY less hard disables in LoL than in DOTA, most of the time you can just walk away.
I mean I would understand if you're talking about release Xin Zhao, or jungling Nunu or Mundo, but there is just so little hard CC flying around in LoL. It's all slows and blinks, nothing that will really stop you in your tracks for some 3 seconds or prevent you from retailiating.
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