ItAintEasy
Member
I think you should try to improve upon this rather than trying to find sneaky ways to break the game.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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I think you should try to improve upon this rather than trying to find sneaky ways to break the game.
Wait, I'm confused, you dropped them because it will somehow make Tango heal you faster? Please explain this sorcery. I thought it was because you just wanted to hold more Tango.
Sneaky ways to break the game? lol.
It was a choice, I could ether try to get last hits and XP, or stay in a safe spot and heal. I may of chosen poorly, but at the time it was the safest rout, since the Jungler/Mid were farming up fine and would be able to help the lane soon.
1 Tango will heal 115 HP, no matter what. If you have 275/550 HP, it will bring you from 50% HP, to 390/550 HP, which is 71%. Now, if you have 360/720 HP, it will bring you from 50% HP, to 475/720 HP, which is 66%. So if you can't stay in lane and heal, you can drop all your stat items to heal slightly more, then pick them up. So, if you were at 360HP/720, you could drop your stat items, bring your HP to 275/550, use two tangos, now be at 505/550, pick up the stat items, and now you are at 661/720. If you just used the two tangos, you would be at 590/720.
Its a dumb thing, but sometimes every little bit helps.
PillowKnight
Member
How much more did it heal?
Close enough? Build is pretty ridiculous, dealing something like 300 dmg cleave.
I feel like it's an idea that works in theory but ultimately the time is better used stacking/pulling, getting xp, denying, last hitting, etc.
71 HP.
Every time I stepped foot into lane I was brought down to 1/2 health in an instant, so I was going to sit at the tower and heal anyway while I waited for the lane to push (Couldn't pull for a while since they warded the pull spot, and I put my money on items that would keep me alive rather then a sentry ward). So, I decided to do the whole "Drop all my items and heal slightly more" trick. The reason I was a bit farther back that times is mainly that I was trying to meet up with the courier faster before Clockwork realized he could flare me to death.'
Also, while bzm keeps trying to say I lost 5 creep waves, it was 2. Tangos take 16 seconds to heal, creep waves take 30 seconds to spawn, ect ect.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
No kirby, it was more than two. You wasted way too much time and were much more underleveled than you should have been. You should've just eaten the tangos and used your slow to make sure you didn't die. The only disable they had was cog, and you have a spammable slow. Nothing they could do would kill you if you positioned yourself correctly and used hp pots properly.
An equally serious problem was that you went to a solo lane with 90 gold in regen items, which was a horrible decision.
You took forever to drop your items, then eat the tree then wait, then pick it up, then walk like 2500 distance back to xp range.
We had like, 4 people in mumble and we were laughing our asses off cuz it was the lowest tier thing we've seen in weeks
PillowKnight
Member
That's decent, prob worth doing if you're hiding in trees in a suicide lane or stacking creeps.
Lol, bzm, that does sound hilarious. Kirby you should try hiding in the trees below the tower while you do it, and obviously you gotta go fast.
D3DOverrider
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
This advice is on equal footing with ihl rampage. Dropping things when you CAN'T be in lane, like when mid is missing or something and you have to sit behind tower, might be viable, but the risk involved is insane. Someone walks in and catches you with no hp and you lose all of your items. Never worth the risk.
Also kirby, you wasted tons of time walking halfway down the lane to meet your courier, don't do that.
PillowKnight
Member
So...best most fun thing ever?
Put it in terms of gold then. 71 hp is lets just roughly say 1 tango.. which is 30 gold. Do you sit out of battle for 30 seconds and avoid using the extra tango, or do you use two tangoes and try to get a few creep kills in that 30 second time period. You don't have to think hard about which one is really better. There are instances where it may be a good idea, but with tangoes I just can't see it being worth losing exp/money/time.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
lol <3
Jousthouse?!
give us more gametypes/options valve 
I argue that if I did not fully heal, I would have been busted down. I may have assessed the situation wrong, but I have explained my reasoning for what I did. The point of it in that picture was to heal faster and not have to use my Health Pot at the moment. I could of used all 3 tangos, but that would of taken 48 seconds rather then 32.
You guys feel I over did the defensiveness, I feel that if I did not take the steps I did I would have been killed and would have given the people I was having problems laning against anther level over me, causing the lane to snowball in their favor.
did you look at your lane? how is tinker clock gonna kill you
Togglesworlh
Banned
*Does Math*
Level 2 Heat-Seeking Missile, Laser, Rocket Flare. 160 + 175 + 120 = 455 * .75 = 341 Half my health
Cooldowns: 25, 14, 18.
Yeah, it looks like while they can burst me down to half health, they then don't have any follow up attacks. And this is why I need to learn more heroes, to know what they are abel to do. The problem is that I can't mearly use Tango's in lane to heal this up, because by the time they are finished, their cooldown are up, and I only healed 20% of my health.
Lolololol.
lol, tinker spamming lvl1 laser till he was out of mana did like no damage, clock didnt do much of anything in that lane, aside from nuke the creeps so it was always at aa's tower
Plus, even if that lane can harass well, then cant really kill you because you can just walk away when youre low
Tinker's laser is pure damage.
cept tinker had no mana cuz he blew it all on laser level1, and clocks mana pool is pretty bad anyway
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
They dont have infinite mana, they have no ranged disables, and you have a spammable slow. You're in no danger with proper positioning and hp pots.
Yeah, I wasn't going to be diving to kill kirby. The rockets came in handy to make it more punishing for him to stay in lane (which apparently worked, I was baffled as to where he had gone at times), but I couldn't count on followup and a kill because Tinker's mana was fairly low. If Tinker had the mana to work with, it could have been a different story.
Also, this is incidentally another reason why you should make it a habit to check opponents frequently, both to see what consumables they have and how much mana they have at their disposal (both presently and in reserves [bottle charges, stick charges, clarities]). One click on Tinker would have been sufficient to reveal that you were far safer on the lane than you thought.
Also, this is incidentally another reason why you should make it a habit to check opponents frequently, both to see what consumables they have and how much mana they have at their disposal (both presently and in reserves [bottle charges, stick charges, clarities]). One click on Tinker would have been sufficient to reveal that you were far safer on the lane than you thought.
Well, lessened learned I guess.
I'm not drawing out the argument due to shear stubbornness, I'm doing it to get you guys to put more of your reasoning on the table. Saying "Doing X is bad" is not good enough. Its the reasons why X is bad that are important, since this lets you apply the information to different situations. How many posts did it take to get you to explain the full reasoning on why the idea was so bad, and the failures up to that point on my part?
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
I posted that a while ago, that was a repost: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34089316&postcount=6360
You didn't explain the all the reason of why they couldn't kill me then.
Also worth noting is that most of this was taking place pre-level 6. I didn't have hookshot, and Tinker didn't have Rearm for a double missile barrage. And even if he had mana, it was by no means a sure thing, given we'd almost certainly have to hit you with all three of our nukes in short succession. The most I was hoping for was to force you off the lane or to take a trek back to base.
maxing veno wards and spamming them free gold
Well, these are some of my assorted thoughts, albeit from my side of the map:
- Clockwerk (aka me) couldn't land enough hookshots, impedance by friendly creeps or heroes did him in most of the time. When he managed to, the team was seldom in a position to catch up and capitalize immediately, worsened by the fact he wasn't nearly tanky enough to stand inside the cogs for long (never was able to complete that Vanguard).
- Tinker built Arcane Boots instead of Boots of Travel, perhaps as a reflexive action from burning a ton of mana quickly in the early game. This really hurt his ability to push the lanes and indeed to keep his skill spam up, as it's one of Tinker's intrinsic strengths with BoTs to spam missiles and machines through a rearm, TP back to the fountain, rearm again, and then TP back out for more lane pushing and skill spam. A Tinker with Boots of Travel is relentless. A Tinker with Arcanes burns through his mana pool slower, but is stranded and ineffectual when it bottoms out. It's hamstringing akin to a Nature's Prophet neglecting to skill his innate TP, a multi-lane pushing powerhouse is reduced to a single-lane nuker.
- Initiation-wise, the Radiant could get it from two sources: Earthshaker and Dark Seer. The Dire only had Clockwerk in comparison. If he jumped one, the other would still be doing a hell of a lot of harm. When it came to teamfights, the Dire were really disorganized. We engaged and fell back in the same instant, we spread our focus wide and wound up killing no one at times. We could follow up ganks with tower pushes, but we struggled and ultimately failed to follow up initiations with good team fights. Ultimately, that's what doomed us. We just couldn't pull together as a cohesive unit in a 5 on 5 clash.
- Clockwerk (aka me) couldn't land enough hookshots, impedance by friendly creeps or heroes did him in most of the time. When he managed to, the team was seldom in a position to catch up and capitalize immediately, worsened by the fact he wasn't nearly tanky enough to stand inside the cogs for long (never was able to complete that Vanguard).
- Tinker built Arcane Boots instead of Boots of Travel, perhaps as a reflexive action from burning a ton of mana quickly in the early game. This really hurt his ability to push the lanes and indeed to keep his skill spam up, as it's one of Tinker's intrinsic strengths with BoTs to spam missiles and machines through a rearm, TP back to the fountain, rearm again, and then TP back out for more lane pushing and skill spam. A Tinker with Boots of Travel is relentless. A Tinker with Arcanes burns through his mana pool slower, but is stranded and ineffectual when it bottoms out. It's hamstringing akin to a Nature's Prophet neglecting to skill his innate TP, a multi-lane pushing powerhouse is reduced to a single-lane nuker.
- Initiation-wise, the Radiant could get it from two sources: Earthshaker and Dark Seer. The Dire only had Clockwerk in comparison. If he jumped one, the other would still be doing a hell of a lot of harm. When it came to teamfights, the Dire were really disorganized. We engaged and fell back in the same instant, we spread our focus wide and wound up killing no one at times. We could follow up ganks with tower pushes, but we struggled and ultimately failed to follow up initiations with good team fights. Ultimately, that's what doomed us. We just couldn't pull together as a cohesive unit in a 5 on 5 clash.
Oh, that reminds me, when you cogged it make it super simple to stun you. I would just place Cold Feet on you, and bam, stunned. Though most of the time they killed you off before it even kicked in.
And so many times the other team let me walk away with 10 HP, in both the game I was AA and the game Lion.
And so many times the other team let me walk away with 10 HP, in both the game I was AA and the game Lion.
What's a good early-mid item build for Dark Seer? In the games I played, I generally jungle in the beginning (and probably too much in the midgame) so the first item I work towards is a vanguard. After that, I either start working towards a Mek or a Pipe depending on what the other supports are getting and what we need. If we're getting a lot of towers or ganking a lot, I pick up a soul ring and/or an urn. Finally, I start inching towards Aghanim's Scepter, giving my ult a lot more utility and making it useful even if I flop the placement. (I usually completely skip boots, thanks to surge.)
I still have trouble judging when to skip items such as soul ring or urn to get later game items, and I STILL am not completely used to actually using the actives on my items. Seeing 10 charges on my urn knowing I could of used them a lot before is just a terrible feeling.
As an aside, I'm loving how much utility Dark Seer has. Vacuum enemies into Earthshaker's ult, into epicenter, into cogs, into a black hole, into a macropyre, into cold feet, into ice blast, etc. Can be used for aiding escapes and chases, same as surge. And it can be used to drag enemies across your wall of replica, which by the way just feels like an insane ult.
I still have trouble judging when to skip items such as soul ring or urn to get later game items, and I STILL am not completely used to actually using the actives on my items. Seeing 10 charges on my urn knowing I could of used them a lot before is just a terrible feeling.
As an aside, I'm loving how much utility Dark Seer has. Vacuum enemies into Earthshaker's ult, into epicenter, into cogs, into a black hole, into a macropyre, into cold feet, into ice blast, etc. Can be used for aiding escapes and chases, same as surge. And it can be used to drag enemies across your wall of replica, which by the way just feels like an insane ult.
The best is using it to drag an enemy in/out out of their base if they are close to the wall. If you want to be a real jack ass, you can make it vacuum them into unpathable terrain, and be stuck there till they get a TP scroll.
Oh, that reminds me of the game where Mila jumped onto the cliff above where the Radiant Ancients Spawn as PotM, and simply got stuck there. Eventually Bounty Hunter was able to toss enough of his Q to kill him, though I think that got him killed soon after.
Also, while I'm pretty good at using actives, I need to get better at using Blink Dagger. I rarely pick it up, so I don't know the range of the thing, or when its best to use.
Oh, that reminds me of the game where Mila jumped onto the cliff above where the Radiant Ancients Spawn as PotM, and simply got stuck there. Eventually Bounty Hunter was able to toss enough of his Q to kill him, though I think that got him killed soon after.
Also, while I'm pretty good at using actives, I need to get better at using Blink Dagger. I rarely pick it up, so I don't know the range of the thing, or when its best to use.
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